need outside opinions

[sjohnston71]

My BF and I have been together almost a year. Around January he basically stopped staying at his own place and always stays here. He has 2 kids (that story is a whole issue in itself...) one of which he has had custody informally (no court order) since his wife left a couple years ago. She's been in trouble with the law, was arrested for numerous things including selling drugs with the child in the car...she's not a very nice person. She treats him like crap, cheated on  him multiple times, the younger child is biologically someone elses, you name it, she's done it. One issue we have is the child he raises, or should I say his mom does. When I first met him the situation was that because he starts work very early (5 am) his son would spend the week at grandma's, she would take him to school every day and pick him up because they live in a different district. I understood it was better than waking him up that early to go to a babysitters, and after all it was grandma. I live in the same school district as grandma (which is only the next town from where my BF's place was) and considering BF pretty much has moved in I assumed he would switch schools. The child is only 7, easy enough to adjust....besides, he should be with his father, not grandma. Now add ex into the picture, she's constantly threatening to sue for custody. They finally have a court date coming up, and I'm trying to make him understand the judge is going to side with mom if he continues to allow the child to live at grandma's. My house is plenty big enough, and I took care of the kids all summer, but as soon as school started he said "I think we should go back to what he's used to" Aside from the fact it's not legal, am I the only one who thinks the judge will want to place the child with a parent first, not grandma first? To make matters worse, ex is bipolar, and every day is a different story. She manipulates him into doing exactly as she wants, and then turns around and shoves it up his butt when he least expects it. And besides that, he for some reason feels the need to chat with her every day. I completely understand the need to talk regarding the children....but "what are you up to" and "how's it going" every day is very inappropriate given the situation. I feel as though he never really let go of her, and think the thing about the school is her telling him she won't fight for custody if he leaves the child with his mother (because she hates me), but then as soon as they get to court she's going to say he belongs with a parent not grandma. She's pulled stuff like that before, I just don't know why he continues to allow her to manipulate him. Am I just being crazy?

[specialmom]

sjohnston71, you seem like a really smart lady.  I'm sure this is very difficult for you and I wish you the absolute best.  

[sjohnston71]

You are right about me trying to fix it, habit I guess...lol. I've come to realize I don't feel ok with living my life like this, his behavior regarding the situation goes against everything I've worked for. Probably time to move on.

[specialmom]

I hear ya . . . but I wouldn't be inviting him and all "that" to move in with me.  I think when you are a "fixer" it feels right to fix and I think that is what you are doing here.  You are trying to fix this man.  Granted, he needs fixing for sure.  But fixers usually end up holding the bag because there is a reason he never thought better to mature and take care of his own responsibilities.  At some point we can't blame our parents for all our faults.  So you'll mother your own children, his boy and HIM (guessing you'll become his substitute for mom).  Ugh.

I guess I'm just suggesting that I'd be absolutely certain that you want this man in your life long term before you go upsetting the apple cart.  That's all.

Again--------- really only my opinion here as I do not know anymore than what you've written.  I'm a huge fan of happy endings and love to be proven wrong when I feel strongly that something (like this) has so many red flags!  Take all here with a grain of salt as we don't know you or your boyfriend and are only trying to help with limited information.  Goodluck

[sjohnston71]

It's not that I want to control the situation, it's that my values are that children are to be raised by their parents, not given to whomever is willing to take them. I didn't have an easy time of it whatsoever, but I was brought up to be independent and take responsibiltiy for my actions. If there is no proper reason for grandma to be raising that child, then she should not be doing it. The fault lies with all of them. Yes, thank you grandma for stepping in, but now it's time to let go, which she doesn't want to do. And since Dad has been raised under the pretense that your parents take care of everything, because she still does, he's just following with what he's been taught. Grandma still takes care of everything not only for her grandchildren, but her children as well. They think this is normal because that's what they were taught. If grandma had been a good parent herself she wouldn't have taken over this child's life. She wasn't asked to, she took it upon herself to do it because she needs to feel needed. I'm absolutely not saying her help isn't appreciated, but she never allowed her son to be independent for his whole life, and now he doesn't know how to. What will happen if grandma is no longer here? Then a change has to be forced on a child who has been sheltered from change? As far as "leaving things the way they are" things changed when 1) his parents split up, 2) his mom moved in with someone else, 3) his dad moved in with someone, 4) when he started spending weekends and school vacations at my house, and 5) when he spent the summer with me and my kids. So since he's not a special needs child, and had no problem adapting any other time, it's time to stop making excuses and be a real parent as far as I'm concerned. If he wants to live here and be a family with my children he will have to include his child as well, and cut the apron strings and be a man.
Did you ever know a person who always took over instead of taking the time to show you how to do something? Like "It'll be easier if I just do it myself" type? That's what grandma is doing. If we continued to live like this because it's "what he's used to" then there will always be some reason why it's not a good time to change. That means he stays with grandma til he's an adult? And then we have another man who was raised to believe someone else will take care of it, I don't have to be responsible. Being a grandma/babysitter is one thing, not allowing the parent to be the parent is quite another. Unfortunately I don't have the time to explain all the things I have seen go on in that home, but if anyone wants to see this child grow up to be independent and successful then a change needs to come.

[Gotmoxy]

Maybe it IS time that he moved back to his own place. Give him an ultimatum. It's obvious that you cannot continue to live like a broken family, and you want to ensure that you're with a man that is responsible AND family oriented.

[specialmom]

I just hate to be a doomsayer . . . but I think you are going to end up being extremely disappointed in your boyfriend and as a strong woman will break it off.  Then this boy will be in an even worse situation than he is now.  That is why I say not to rush it.  Are you sure this is forever?  No need to answer here but you seem to want to control the situation very much and unless in your heart of hearts you know this is forever and ever--------- I'd let things play out without insinuating yourself into the mix so strongly.  

And I think everyone should be praising and thanking Grandma to high heaven because I'm sure she "rescued" this boy from two parents that shouldn't have made a baby.  Just my opinion on that but I am not impressed with either of this boy's bio parents.  

So that is all I'm saying.  Make sure it is forever before you take control.  good luck

[sjohnston71]

I totally agree with what you, and that's exactly what I have done. Part of the reason I came to this forum was because he thinks it's just my opinion that he could lose his son over this. While I obviously have no way of predicting what will happen in court, I feel as though if I'm thinking all this, it's possible the judge will too. Unfortunately because it's such a delicate situation we both end up angry, which is not good either. I just keep reminding him that I love him, I love the kids, and my intentions are regarding what's best for the kids. The only benefit I get from his son living here is having another wonderful child in my life. He's so used to being treated badly by a woman that he's always defensive about what I say, looking for the worst in everything. My kids are a bit older than his, because I'm older than him by a few years. I was a little less restricted when we met because my kids are old enough to be left alone (my oldest is 20). He sometimes says things like "I still have young kids, you shouldn't have to give up your freedom" blah blah blah....I tried to explain that when I met him I knew what his situation was before we started dating and I chose to get involved with someone where I may have to accept the responsibility of helping to raise young kids again. I CHOSE to do that, I'm not doing something I don't want to do. I'm certainly not perfect, and I've had to make difficult choices based on my situations too, like working 2 jobs and not spending enough time with my kids so I could provide them with a nice home and food on the table. But I do the best I can and I always put the kids first, as I also do with his children. I have had the little one numerous times while his ex went out of town to visit her BF for weeks at a time (he used to live in another state, and she decided it would be too difficult to take a vacation with a child) I obviously didn't realize the extent of his lack of responsibility until push came to shove and he decided to take the easy route. I also worry about the lessons being taught to all the children. I'm mature enough to understand you can't change a person who doesn't want to change, but the parent in me would feel guilty if I didn't at least try to show him what being a parent really should be, if only for the sake of those kids

[sjohnston71]

To specialmom: My point was grandma's house is NOT is listed residence, dad's house that they don't even live in is, and grandma lives in the same district as me, so he is living in one district and being driven to another. At one point when my son was having difficulties in school my ex husband (who is a wonderful dad and is very involved) had asked the school if my son could stay with him and be driven to school because he resides in a different district and they said absolutely not. My district is small and is extremely good at making sure the kids are given all the help they need, so it was beneficial to keep my son in the same school, but my ex wanted to give him extra help in getting his work done because I had a diffucult work schedule. They told him my son would have to go to the school in his district. So that's my fear about breaking the law. It finally came out last night that the child's mom told him she wouldn't fight him on custody if he left him where he is. I still feel VERY strongly that she is manipulating him into thinking that so she can say to the judge "He should be with a parent so I'll take him" She has asked for custody several times because she wants the child support. A big part of the reason why I have such doubts about her intentions is because about 6 months ago she filed divorce papers and tried to convince him to sign the uncontested agreement without letting him see what she put in the papers first. I kept telling him something was fishy about it. She threatened that she would not let him see his other child ( the one that isn't biologically his, but he has been "Daddy" to since he was born) if he didn't sign the papers right away. Come to find out the papers she filed said he had been beating her (which he had not) and that he was to give her full custody of both kids or she was having his name taken off the birth certificate of the younger child. This woman claimed he was abusive when she was the one who tried to STAB him with a knife in front of the kids...and the older one remembers seeing this! Luckily we convinced her to withdraw those papers, by offering to repay her the money it cost her to file.
I did finally come right out and tell him the other night that I think he's not being a responsible parent and that his child belongs with him and not grandma. I have told him that if he loses custody it will be his own fault and he has no right to be angry about a situation that he created. I understand the point of getting help with child care from grandma when you are single and have no one else to help, but since his situation changed and he's refusing to take on the responsibility that comes with parenting we should probably consider him moving back to his own place. No one ever said being a parent was supposed to be easy, I told him taking the easy way is almost never the best way.
I guess all I can do is tell him how I feel and what I think, and ultimately it's up to him to make the decision. I told him I'm just trying to help him and his son, but he can certainly choose to do things his way and see what happens.

[teko]

I have a situation in my own family that has me riled up. My daughter and her husband split ways, divorce still pending and he quits his job, and leaves to another state and goes home to his mama. No child support order in place and the daughter is trying to pay all the bills of running a house and support 3 children on a waitress salery. When he left she had to give up working nigts and take the day shift. She has to come up with daycare and now there is no health insurance either. She has left the children in the school where they originally started to not disrupt their lives anymore than they have already. The kids have done nothing but cry for daddy and he has only been gone a couple of weeks and says he will not pay child support until he is forced to. I have no use for a deadbeat dad or mom for that matter. I think whatever the right thing to do for the child is what the best decision is. Not for everyone else. Why do the children always pay the ultimate price for mom and dads hormones or lack of committment. For this reason, I think if the child is being taken care of by gramma, is used to that routine, and no one has any lifelong committments like marriage, the childs welfare is the only one that matters. Sorry so blunt.

[Gotmoxy]

It's time to seriously sit him down and tell him you and your children want to include him and his son into your family. Tell him that you have bonded with his son, which it sounds like you have, and really want him to be a part of your family. Make him understand that he will lose his son if he continues to neglect the fact that he belongs with his father. Tell him that if his ex gains custody of their son, he will barely get to see him, much less you. If he cannot concur with this, tell him that you cannot live with a man that doesn't take care of his children. After all, you are a single mother of 4. What do you think this is teaching your children about a man's role in the family? I'm sure they are affected somewhat. First they have a new stepbrother, (during the summer), and then they don't?

[specialmom]

I meant "raising his son".  

Anyway, it is encouragint that he has a desire to live with you.  Don't rush it but that is your ticket to making it work.  

But I still have grave reservations about your boyfriend.  

Okay, good luck

[specialmom]

Ex's can be hard to deal with.  Some people have a lingering desire to make things terrible for someone else.  Why, I don't know and when it is not in the best interest of shared children------- it makes me mad.

I understand not wanting his ex to get custody.  She sounds like a shady character and frankly, she may never want custody.  She's gone this long.  

If the boy is sleeping at his grandmothers and that is listed as his residence, then no law is broken. I would try not to worry about that.  

Okay the hard thing that is probably really hard for you to think about . . . that judge was talking about people like your boyfriend.  He has not really raised his son.  His mother has and he takes a back seat to her in that.  It wasn't like his mother was helping out----------- she's the parent in charge.  This should be a major red flag about this guy.  I know you love him but spend some time thinking about this.  Seriously thinking.  
I still think you should be patient and not rush this.  Only my opinion though.  Best of luck.

[sjohnston71]

I do appreciate the imput. Part of the reason why I feel it's important is because I have sat in open family court with this judge and heard him go on a rampage about parents not wanting to raise their own children. While I was waiting for my own case to come up several cases before me were of people giving custody to relatives and after about the third one the judge just went off about how much he can't figure out why people are just willing to give their kids to someone else to raise. I'm not making grandma the villian, I understand why she is how she is, I just feel like in the long run this situation will do more harm than good. The child actually was excited the day before school started because he thought he would be going to school on the bus with my kids, so he's fine with it. Two years ago a woman not far from here was arrested and put in jail for basically the same situation, the kids were going to school from grandmas and not the district they live in, so that worries me too, when they go to court, which is inevitable because it's to finalize the divorce, the judge can also put him in jail for breaking the law. He won't be able to hide the facts of what's going on. The child's mother is already engaged and pregnant, and I'm afraid that she's going to paint the picture of the stable little family and the judge will say if Mom wants him a child belongs with a parent first before grandma. I honestly tried to be friendly to this woman, but she's just the type of person who wants to make trouble. She talks badly of my kids to her kids, and lies constantly about situations. I'm absolutely not one to dislike someone just because they are an ex, she's just a very abusive person, and having her raise the child would be 10 times worse. She's unfortunately the type who feels the world owes her something, has her nails and hair done all the time and smokes but then complains that she can't buy diapers. She has literally said "You married me, that gives me the right to do whatever I want and you will have to pay for it as long as we're married" I could write a book on all the things she has said or done to try and break us up, which I just don't get because she's always been in other relationships since she left him, so why should she care? I'm thankful for this website to be able to vent a little!

[teko]

I would only add, that my daughter lives in one school district, yet her children attend another. This is totally legal here, but she has to provide the transportation to and fro. No bus service.

[specialmom]

It obviously is not an ideal situation--------- and quite complicated.  I really do stand by my original opinion.  And legal issues would involve "formal" custody and as you stated-------- he does not formally have custody.  For all intents and purposes, his grandmother has been raising him.  

I don't think it is a great situation all the way around and your boyfriend did not ever have to rely so heavily on his mother.  That was his choice and now it is what it is.  Making his mother a villain will not help you find eternal happiness together.  She came to the aid of an adult son that seemed to not be able to care for his child on his own and took the boy in and mothered him.  Whether she is doing a great job or not----- she deserves credit for that, right?.  AND . . . um, she did raise your boyfriend and you are okay with him, right?  

I feel bad for this child.  You sound like you might be an awesome parent . . . but it is a difficult situation.  I would wait patiently and see what happens.  What is the big rush to change him now?  Why the NOW part?  A year together is a good bit of time but not that long either.  

And actually you and I agree---------- it NEVER was more beneficial for the child to live at Grandma's because it was easier for the parent . . . but your boyfriend made that choice.  What kind of parent is HE?  You sound like a strong and together lady and he sounds like . . . don't get mad and I don't know him so am just going by what you've written but . . . a man child.  HE has the dynamic with his mother that she is in charge and tells him he is parenting wrong.  I just hope you aren't a "fixer" and think that you can make this situation what you desire it to be.  Go ahead and try but I worry you will end up throwing the whole lot of them out and this poor boy will be in even worse shape than he is now.  
I also want you to  know that I am just someone getting a snippet of information from you.  That puts you in a position of knowing better than I what is truly right.  I'm only giving you my opinion.  I do feel bad for this boy and hope for a happily ever after for him.  Does HE want to move to live with you and change schools?  If he did and dad would be a better dad---------  that makes it a much better scenario.  Good luck to you and know I was only trying to help.

[sjohnston71]

Also, he didn't just see Dad on the weekends, when we first got together BF stayed at his parents house until the child went to bed, then he would go home or come over (and he works with his father, so they drive together to and from his parents house). Once we were more serious he would bring the child over here after school and just bring him back to grandma's at bedtime. Unfortunately, if he tries to parent his child in front of his mom (correct him when he gets out of line) she gets upset and will say he's abusive right in front of the kids....like I said, she doesn't believe in discipline

[sjohnston71]

I have to say again...it is ILLEGAL what they are doing with the school. I have provided him stability for the last 3 months, and I'm saying grandma is the one who doesn't discipline, not the child's mom. My number one concern is this child's well being, and when you choose to move in this state, you must change schools. There is absolutely no reason to keep him in the school he is in. For one thing, my district is one of the top rated in the state, his is the opposite. There reasoning goes way beyond the "routine". Grandma has schizophrenia, and "needs" these kids to make her feel happy. In my opinion very unhealthy, especially considering she will suddenly get in the car with no warning and check herself in because she's "overwhelmed". She does this without telling anyone, just leaves. I have raised 4 children as a single parent and I don't see living at grandma's as being the best thing for this child. He was a completely different child this summer while he was here, no temper tantrums, no whining, doing as he was asked. As soon as he's back at grandma's it's back to temper, whining, and I don't have to do anything I don't want to. I respect your opinion but I will never believe it's more beneficial to let a child live with grandma just because it's easier on the parent. Life's situations change, and adaptation is a very important lesson that needs to be learned. My concern is he will lose custody. We spoke to a lawyer at one point and he flat out told us if you leave the child with grandma you will lose the custody fight. "It's what he's used to" is not a legitimate reason to not have your child live with you. My kids had to change schools because I purchased a home, should I have left them in the other school because it was what they were used to? In that case, who's in charge, the kids or the parent?

[specialmom]

Honestly, I do not think you should rock the boat and he should stay at Grandma's.  She has been a stable factor in his life.  And the notion that "no big deal" for a 7  year old to switch schools is misguided.  He is a child that has had a mom in crisis and thus she has been nonexistent , a dad he sees on the weekends and a life created for him at Grandma's.  Keep him stable whether it feels right to you or not.  

And I must say, why you would pick this man as your boyfriend is beyond me.  You blame his mother for the child's behavior when the dad picked a dead beat for a mother of his children in the first place and then couldn't handle raising his child (I know he has to get up at 5 . . . yadda yadda yadda . . . not buying that.)  I don't mean to sound harsh . . .but I'd never pick a man that showed his true colors by the type of father he is.  
When I hear things like "he disrupts my routine"------------  I know that someone should move on from the situation.  These are the easy years . . . and the preteen and teen years are coming.  It will get worse, I guarantee it.  His father is not handling things the right way.  I'd run the other direction.  You will not be able to save this.  His dad needs to stop having women in his life rescue him as a parent and start being a father himself.   Don't blame anyone but your boyfriend for how bad things are.  I'm dead serious.  If he practically moved in with you------ he could have done the same with his mother 2 years ago to be their for his child.  There will be a LOT of issues down the road and I'd think twice before attaching yourself permanently to that.  

And yes, therapy for both dad and son to work out issues would be great.  good luck

And I k now this probably was not what you wanted to hear and I'm sorry for that.  I'm not trying to be mean or rude in anyway.  I feel for you as this is a tough situation.  But I've seen it before and it usually ends even worse.  good luck

[sjohnston71]

Thanks for your imput...he does have his own place, he just hasn't stayed there since January. On his weekends the kids stay with us at my house. His son also stays at our house during school vacations, so it's not a matter of keeping a routine. The fact that he leaves the child with his mother makes me feel like it's a lack of responsibility on his part, and like I said, it's completely illegal for him to be staying at either my place or grandma's and be driven to another school district. It's great that his mother had the ability to offer him the help he needed when he needed it, but now it's time to suck it up and be a grown up. It's beginning to disrupt my routine because he picks his son up after work, brings him to my house, then takes him back at bedtime. Sometimes he's had dinner, sometimes he hasn't. I took him shopping for school clothes because I was told he would be transferring schools, and the clothes sit in the closet because he has a full wardrobe at grandmas. Besides what is he teaching that child as far as who is in charge of decision making when he's worried about where the child wants to go to school instead where he is supposed to go. And as much as I like grandma, she doesn't believe in discipline and she lets the children make decisions about everything. There is definitely a difference in behavior when his son spends a lot of time with her. She doesn't tell him what needs to be done, she lets him decide, like "Are you ready to go to bed yet" or "Are you ready to shower" and if he says no, it's no. He totally dictates what goes on. I've seen him scream at her and throw all out temper tantrums kicking and screaming because she needed to run and errand and he didn't want to go. She almost started crying and said "I don't know what to do, I guess I need to go find a neighbor to stay with him". I was FLOORED! As soon as she walked outside I sat him down and told him we NEVER speak to adults that way and when an adult who is responsible for you tells you to do something you do it without a tantrum. He never acts that way for me and once I said that he immediately stopped and I had him apologize to her and he was fine. As far as the ex goes, I believe you are right about the self image issues, like battered wives syndrome. Maybe I should suggest therapy?

[teko]

My first thought would be what is best for the child. I can understand his hesitation in bringing about too many changes in the childs life. I agree from what you have shared, it may be in the childs best interest to not mix up the routine anymore than is necessary. I also do not agree that the mother would automatically get custody either. She comes with a history and the court will generally do what is best for the kids involved and gramma is a stabalizing factor at this point, moreso than if he lived with you the gf. I would also sit back and evaluate this guy. There would appear to be more going on here with the ex, even if it is only him being intimidated by the ex. Why would he have stayed with this woman for so long with her doing all these bad things and continue to be intimidated by her. It would sound like he might have some self image issues of his own? Personally I wonder why the Dad does not have his own place, provide a home for his child and be more responsible from a parental point of view? Just throwing some stuff out there, not meant to offend.