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Avatar universal

Rages

My wife and I have been married 4yrs. (tomorrow).  We have struggled constantly since day 1 to get along... and to date, we still don't.  We've done alot of damage to each other (and the kids) over the years.  I'm trying to change my ways and do things the right way now.  I try to keep the peace... discuss our problems... and come to peaceful resolutions.  My wife on the other hand has a very destructive temper... which is exacerbated ten-fold after several drinks.  She screams, threatens, is verbally abusive, and then turns to withdrawing and ignoring me altogether.  I beg and plead with her constantly, and she just pushes me away.  She tells me how bitter and angry she is for things I've done to her... I tell her that I do understand that... I'm still sorry, and I feel the same way for things that she has done to me.  But, we have to stop punishing one another, if we really love each other and want to stay together, otherwise we're destined for doom.  I have to let go of the ill feelings and so does she.  Anyway, that's some of the things I've said to her, attempting to reconcile and grow old together.  Her response is always the same... that EVERYTHING is my fault, she minimizes anything she has done,  and that I lost her a long time ago.  But, she doesn't want a divorce... just to stay like this.  I love her and do not want to end our marriage... I want to help, but it's so hard when she is so full of rage and resentment.  I feel like she hates me, especially when she drinks --- I can watch her change over a period of time --- the more she drinks, the more withdrawn and hateful she becomes.  I feel like I'm not wanted by her anymore and it just kills me.  What can I possibly do to get through to her?  I am completely exhausted and clueless.
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Avatar universal
what about counseling?
Helpful - 0
332074 tn?1229560525
Take it from someone who is married to a recovering alcholic, she needs help and you need to learn how not to enable her and her bad behavior. She will forever put the blame on you when she is drinking because you forced her to become that way. That is a the mind of someone who drinks all the time.

My husband always had a reason of what was wrong with me in the relationship but never saw his problem. He has been sober for years now and we have a great relationship again. This did not happen over night, I had to learn to let the past go and he had to learn to be patient unless and until I was ready to forgive him. This took a few years but through much talking and him learning through AA that he knows what he did wrong but he can not change his past we have made it through. Now my husband just strives everday not to let himself to get back to that place in his life whenever thing was bad.

Please listen when I say that she is only using your masterbating as a excuse to make you look worse then her. Past sexual addiction or current one aside, she needs help and all you can do is offer to help her get it. As for you, this is a time when you need to stand up and me the man of the family for the sake of your children. If this means divorce then so be it. Your children need a safe and stable home and it is not uncommon anymore for the father to have custody. I know that you love her but if loving someone was the only thing it took to have a good marriage, there would be no divorce.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Things will never get better as long as she is drinking. Have you asked her about getting help for this? If you went into some kind of therapy they would probably say the same thing. Suggest she go to AA.  Which will probably just cause another fight. Good Luck.

Dove
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'm glad you are a bit clearer on the situation.

I think you need to stick by your post and even if you two 'make up' for awhile still go to counselling - because it may be the best thing you two need.  

She definately needs to address her drinking that's probably a big part of the problem too, it exacerbates EVERYTHING in a bad way.  Stay strong and stand up for yourself.  Don't worry about what if's if it does come down to going separate ways.  You know what's going on in your own heart.

Let me tell you this - my uncle recently separated from his wife of 20 years (4 grown children) and she took him to the cleaners too, no custody issues because all the kids are adults but he's paying over 6000/mo in alimony to her.  She has issues, anxiety, depression, was abused as a kid the whole gambit and made him pay for her past on numerous occasions.  Let me tell you it's been very tough on my uncle, one of the kids isn't talking to him and that hurts him more then you can imagine as he adores his children and is a great father but the marriage just didn't work.  And they tried, the last 6 years of it was them trying and it just didn't work.  After all of this and all the **** he's been through and her and the kids, it's still for the best.  He is much happier for it and hoping that in time his son will come around to understand.  My point is you have to be happy, if you aren't nothing in your life will be and your children will sense that.  So stay strong and get into counselling and I hope that helps you two.  If not, don't fear the divorce until you get to it.  One day at a time.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Yes, indeed... I do read you loud and clear.  I will bring up counseling again.  We've both agreed to go in the past, but after "making up"... we decided it wasn't necessary.  Nonetheless, you said it best:  "We can't fix this by ourselves, that has been proven".  I know her alcohol haze is one of my biggest enemies here.  I've experienced all of the textbook "outbursts", "childish and violent behavior", and of course "withdrawl".  I have to get us both into counseling, and in the meantime... grow a set, get ready, and maybe even begin thinking of the worst case scenario --- DIVORCE (as much as I hate to even say it).  She would take me to the cleaners, my daughter (the other three children are from her previous relationships).  And drag my name in the dirt, in this small town we live in.  Whoa!   Not a good thing to be looking forward to.  Anyway, I appreciate everyones insight... it REALLY did help me... alot (even more than I had expected).  P.S.... you're absolutely right, RockRose.
Helpful - 0
104652 tn?1196600308
check out :Getting them sober" website and books..
it will open your eyes completely.
they also have a message board to post.
that is where you need to go ...
it will shed a whole light on your confusion..
Helpful - 0
104652 tn?1196600308
go  to alanon..
your wife is an alcoholic and exhibiting all the typical behaviors associated with it.
nothing you are doing will change her...so dont beg, cry, plead or anything.
she is doing what alkies do and that is crazymaking and abuse.
Go to alanon.
write me here if you like ..
been there and still there and trying to get thru my own rubble with my addicted bf.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
After your last post it seems you are just making excuses.  

I again stand by my post in that this is not healthy for your children and they will only learn to live what they see from you and from her.

I get you don't want to divorce and don't believe in that, fine but I still say this is not good for the children to see period.  And you don't want to remove them from it so really you're being selfish.  You say you are waiting for the tsunami, how is that any way to live?  You FEAR your wife, how is that at all a healthy relationship?  

You do need to grow some balls as you said.  Until you do nothing will improve because she knows she can walk all over you.  Whether you kill her with kindness matters not, doesn't seem like she's willing to change and the kids see this - they see her treat you this way, they see dad is a doormat they see  this as what it's supposed to be.  Not good in my opinion.  Seek counselling together as you two can't fix this by yourselves, that has been proven.
Helpful - 0
13167 tn?1327194124
blaktatt - I really wish you well.  You sound like you're trying so hard.

But you're not understanding at all what I'm trying to say.  I could be wrong,  obviously,  and I'm not insisting I'm right - this is just an internet bulleitin board.  But when you respond to me,  it seems you are not understanding what I'm saying.


The dynamic that I see here,  is that she chose a man she could feel superior to,  and bully.  Because that's what she wants in a marriage,  a weak man she can disdain and abuse.  As you become harder and harder to disdain and bully,  she is getting more and more frustrated,  finally saying she's been to hurt to be nice to you ever.  Permanently,  based on your past sins,  she's told you she doesn't intend to be nice to you ever again.  Thus relieving herself of the chore of finding some current misbehavior to disdain.

As you become more and more whole,  and harder and harder to disdain,  she'll eventually leave you.   Saying,  "yes,  he's improved a lot,  but I really couldn't get past the earlier hurts,  I just don't love him anymore."   Women who do this never have the slightest idea they've done it.  

The more you keep trying to be perfect,  and do this and that that  loving,  normal,  mature,  "whole men" do,  the quicker she'll be out the door.

NOTE:  I want to repeat I'm not insisting this is what's going on,  I'm just wanting to be sure you understand what I'm suggesting as a possibility,  and it isn't that you still need to shore yourself up.    Honestly,  you seem to be avoiding this suggestion for a reason.  ;D
Best wishes.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'm still weak and insecure, perhaps just not as much as before.  Yet, I rely on her so much... and this she knows.  I really do love her and I'm just so very against divorce.  I pretty much refuse to give up, but I don't know how to handle myself throughout it all.  I try to be like her and act like I just don't care and do my own thing... but, that's fake for me and I can't do it for long.  She can and has been that way for a long time.  I did try some Dr. Phil advice, and just carried on from day to day cheerfully, open up to her daily, kindness, no "tit for tat" fighting --- in the hope that she will see that her behavior is childish and destructive.  I've been doing that for the past few weeks, and I think it kinda' riled her up a bit.  She seemed upset... and a bit suprised, actually.  Maybe if I can keep my cool and stay the course, she may eventually let up and work with me again --- or just withdraw and become more enraged (I fear that like an incoming tsunami).  Well, today was our anniversary... we did exchange gifts, but that was it.
She's told me in the past that when she's mad at me, she says and threatens to do alot of messed up things.  But, she doesn't really mean it afterward.  But, she's actually done some of those things.  I reckon' I'll always be a bit fearful of her.  Maybe I do need to grow a set...
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I agree with Rock.

This is not healthy for either of you and ecspecially not healthy for your children.  Stop thinking about you and her for a moment and think about what the children see and hear.  They are learning that your marriage is how mum's and dad's treat each other - the cycle will continue when your children are grown and THAT if nothing else should be enough for you to put your foot down.

Find a counsellor TODAY.  If she is not willing to go then the marriage I'm sorry is probably not going to be saved.  You have tried so much and nothing is working, obviously you two cannot fix this yourselves and every day that goes by with the resentment/anger/sadness in your home is another day your children are subjected to it and learn from it and it ingrains into THEIR psyche.  

I think ecspecially if she isn't willing to seek counselling with you, she enjoys holding the cards, belittling you, and making you and herself miserable.  If that's the case go get the papers drawn up and get your children out of that situation.  

I wish you the best, but sometimes damage done is irrepairable....you have apologized and paid enough for your mistakes - it's time to move on whether that's together or not is going to be a tough decision.
Helpful - 0
13167 tn?1327194124
blaktatt - really,  listen to me.  

She married a weak,  insecure man that she could feel "better" than,  and hold that over your head.

You recovered and became strong and normal and now she's WHIZZED off that she didn't get what she bargained for - a weak insecure man.  You've grown,  and she has to up the ante to keep you in your "place" - the weak one,  and she's the good one.

This is such a textbook dynamic for bad marriage.

Get her the book today,  as an anniversary gift.

Best wishes.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
The reason she's upset w/me is because I masturbated 3 times within about 2 weeks time (we were fighting).  Now the reason she's REALLY upset is that I'm a recovering sex addict.  My wife is my first real relationship in all my life.  I didn't know anything when we first met.  But, she took me in anyway.  I used fantasy and masturbation all my life... that had always been sex for me.  I would always freeze up when trying to do it (sex) for real... this went on for 20+ years... and then I met my wife (bless her heart).  When this all came out... she didn't take it very well.  The fantasy-land, in particular.  She calls it "mental cheating".  And can't help to agree with her somewhat... I would feel pretty bad if I knew she was fantasizing about other people (female wrestling was my genre of choice).  Well, over 3yrs. of on again off again recovery... I did finally get to the best place I've ever been... our sex life changed dramatically.  And I didn't rely on that fantasy-land... I was making love to her and I felt the change inside of myself.  Well, in the process of me getting better over those 3 yrs. she built up so much resentment toward me, that she withdrew and basically considers me "the enemy"... she treats me like other people she "hates" --- that's where her rage, temper, and drinking all come into play.  She was like that before she met me... it's just that now she directs it toward me rather than other people she hates.  She's done alot of bad things to me as a result, and when I would beg for her to basically, "come back to me, forgive me, and stop all of this madness" --- she pushes me away, and has for the past year, or so.  So, anyway this recent "slip" of mine, I did it just to get back at her for how she'd been treating me --- I haven't gone back to being the person I was... and that's what she doesn't believe.  I understand she is hurt... but, so am I.  And, I feel that she just refuses to see my side of anything.  She has lashed out at me with every name in the book and a variety of violent attacks, irrational behavior and complete withdrawl.  I've had to deal with alot too.  I can't describe it in detail, but she brought me to a deep, dark place on many occasions.  Again, we both claim to still love one another (it pains her to say that... I'll add)... we say we don't want to divorce, but I just don't know how to approach this.  I guess counseling (a third-party) would be helpful.  I just don't want to lose her, and I hope that I haven't already.  We both took on alot from each other --- so much damage has been done.  I feel like there's light at the end of the tunnel, but I don't think she does.  Because she doesn't express that at all in her (re)actions.
Helpful - 0
13167 tn?1327194124
blaktatt,  this may not be fixable.

The truth of the matter is,  this is what she wants in a marriage.  She wants to be married to a guy who is grovelling because he's so crappy and she's righteously being hostile to him and he's been so crappy that she doesn't even have to be nice to him.  That's power.  

No,  she doesn't want a divorce.  This is exactly the marriage she's comfortable with.

I'm taking a guess here - she was either very powerless in childhood and had a terrible childhood,  OR,  she watched her mother treat men exactly like this and so she thinks that's how men deserve to be treated.  Or both.

I think you need to lay down the line.  Just say,  you're happy with a marriage like this and I'm not.  I'm not going to spend my life with a wife who is hostile to me anymore,  and make our children think marriage is a hideous institution of torture.  I'm done with this,  period.

And buy her Bad Childhood,  Good Life by Dr. Laura Schlessinger.    It will hurt,  like cutting into a wound,  but she needs a complete turnaround in attitude about marriage.

She needs to realize that giving up the power of being the hateful will make her life much,  much better.  But it's scary.

Best wishes.
Helpful - 0
177641 tn?1189755837
That sounds like a tough situation, but from the sounds of it, the first thing that needs to happen is your wife needs to acknowledge the impact alcohol is having on her (whether she's an alcoholic or not). Even people who are not alcoholics can be almost impossible to deal with when they're drunk - it can be like talking to another person. However, if she's resisting you every step of the way, then you might consider talking to one of her friends or family members (someone she WILL listen to) and let them know that you are concerned.

If she can get to that point, then she (and you too) should find an impartial third party (a counsellor or therapist) to talk with and sort out her anger. It sounds like she feels like she's not being heard (ironically), but maybe you alone aren't the one who needs to listen. Before you can get anywhere in your relationship problems, you both need to have your own issues sorted out. I doubt your wife is at that point (especially if she medicates with alcohol). Perhaps she is simply not yet ready to forgive as you are. Either way, support her in finding what she needs to calm down and think things through. And for yourself make sure you have a friend who will listen to what *you* are going through (so you're not just building up anger or becoming depressed). Good luck!
Helpful - 0
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