Aa
Sleep and MS
Hi Dr. Park,
I haven't seen a note yet - has your wife delivered the baby? I believe she was due just about anytime now. I hope all is well.
I'm a co-CL on the MS forum, and we have been discussing sleep issues for MS patients. In particular, a number of our members use CPAP's with reportedly good success.
The most recent issue of neurology now (online at neurologynow.com) coincidentally has an article about MS and sleep disorders. They write that MS patients suffer twice as many sleep disorders as you might find in non-MS population.
We have one member who just went through a sleep study and was found to have an oxygen saturation of 76% when asleep. Which brings me in a long, round about way to my question.
Can you please write about the physical and cognitive side effects of low oxygen and sleep disorders as they may relate to patients with neurological diseases? I realize this is a broad topic question, but hope it will spur more conversation on our forum about this critical need we all have for quality sleep!
thanks so much,
Laura/ aka Lulu
I haven't seen a note yet - has your wife delivered the baby? I believe she was due just about anytime now. I hope all is well.
I'm a co-CL on the MS forum, and we have been discussing sleep issues for MS patients. In particular, a number of our members use CPAP's with reportedly good success.
The most recent issue of neurology now (online at neurologynow.com) coincidentally has an article about MS and sleep disorders. They write that MS patients suffer twice as many sleep disorders as you might find in non-MS population.
We have one member who just went through a sleep study and was found to have an oxygen saturation of 76% when asleep. Which brings me in a long, round about way to my question.
Can you please write about the physical and cognitive side effects of low oxygen and sleep disorders as they may relate to patients with neurological diseases? I realize this is a broad topic question, but hope it will spur more conversation on our forum about this critical need we all have for quality sleep!
thanks so much,
Laura/ aka Lulu
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Hi Laura,
Yes, my wife delivered our third boy on 1/19. Both mom and baby Brennan are doing fine, and we're getting into a routine (along with major sleep deprivation ;)
You're right in that your question is very broad, since so many people even without MS have sleep problems. It's interesting that you cite that study with MS patients and sleep issues: What type of sleep problems did they have? Do you have the reference?
Even if they are not related, having multiple breathing pauses with interrupted deep sleep on top of having a chronic neurologic disorder can be a double whammy. If you add chronic oxygen deprivations over years, then you're also at risk for the complications of untreated sleep apnea such as depression, anxiety, diabetes, heart disease, heart attack or stroke. However, I've noticed over the years that people with MS have very similar features that I see in people with upper airway resistance syndrome: chronic fatigue, cold hands, and a parent that snores heavily.
You're absolutely right in that sleep is important, especially if you have a chronic condition such as MS. But if you have an additional sleep problem such as sleep apnea, that needs to be diagnosed and treated as well. It's been shown that 90% of women with sleep apnea are not diagnosed. Contrary to conventional thinking (by most doctors today), even young, thin women who don't snore can have significant obstructive sleep apnea.
Let me take a poll: If you have MS, what is your favorite sleep position? Is it your back, side or stomach?
After I tally up the results, I'll tell you the reason that I ask.
Yes, my wife delivered our third boy on 1/19. Both mom and baby Brennan are doing fine, and we're getting into a routine (along with major sleep deprivation ;)
You're right in that your question is very broad, since so many people even without MS have sleep problems. It's interesting that you cite that study with MS patients and sleep issues: What type of sleep problems did they have? Do you have the reference?
Even if they are not related, having multiple breathing pauses with interrupted deep sleep on top of having a chronic neurologic disorder can be a double whammy. If you add chronic oxygen deprivations over years, then you're also at risk for the complications of untreated sleep apnea such as depression, anxiety, diabetes, heart disease, heart attack or stroke. However, I've noticed over the years that people with MS have very similar features that I see in people with upper airway resistance syndrome: chronic fatigue, cold hands, and a parent that snores heavily.
You're absolutely right in that sleep is important, especially if you have a chronic condition such as MS. But if you have an additional sleep problem such as sleep apnea, that needs to be diagnosed and treated as well. It's been shown that 90% of women with sleep apnea are not diagnosed. Contrary to conventional thinking (by most doctors today), even young, thin women who don't snore can have significant obstructive sleep apnea.
Let me take a poll: If you have MS, what is your favorite sleep position? Is it your back, side or stomach?
After I tally up the results, I'll tell you the reason that I ask.
I have been diagnosed for 13 yrs, but had the disease undiagnosed for years...maybe even since college like yourself.
Take it as a blessing that you have been diagnosed at an age much younger than I was.
I spent years not knowing what was wrong with me, and sometimes just making it through each day with all of the pain was...well, lets just say hard.
I own my own business and was an overachiever which, of course, was not healthy.
Lack of sleep has always been a problem. With MS comes bladder problems where you get up during the night. Do you do this? I did. They have meds for this also.
Look at all options also for your lack of sleep so yoiu can address all the issues. I also have a sleep disorder so I have to address more thab one problem for sleep.
By the time I fouind the right pysician, my bloodwork and body was a mess. I had many lessions and I had a zero folic acid level AND no-one had cught it!!
After the diagnosis and a few years of trial and error on meds, I felt like I had a life for the first time I could even remember.
Unfortunately, my MS progressed further than I believe it would have had I been diagnosed earlier.
But I have taken the blessing side myself and feel thankful that I was, at least, finally diagnosed. I have a physician who is INVOLVED, CARES, and will try any avenue outside the box to help me. In fact, at 44 years old, I am now blessed with a four year old son. Every day may bring a new challenge as a single mom with MS, but I face it thankfully.
And, yes, I get frustrated at the amount od meds I have to take some days, but then I realiaze that I WOULD NOT have a son sitting here beside me without them.
PLease find a physician who listens. I may takes meds to get up every morning, but at least there are meds that will give us the energy to get some injoyment out of life. I have extreme fatigue from combination of MS, anti-depressants, and pain meds. However, I takes a methylphenidate twice a day to give me energy.
Rememeber that in more than one way you are blessed. You are finding out early about the MS is one blessing.
Now just find that doc that will look at EVERY avenue to give you the life you deserve!!!!
I'm not sure why I went on so much...I just left lead too!!
Take it as a blessing that you have been diagnosed at an age much younger than I was.
I spent years not knowing what was wrong with me, and sometimes just making it through each day with all of the pain was...well, lets just say hard.
I own my own business and was an overachiever which, of course, was not healthy.
Lack of sleep has always been a problem. With MS comes bladder problems where you get up during the night. Do you do this? I did. They have meds for this also.
Look at all options also for your lack of sleep so yoiu can address all the issues. I also have a sleep disorder so I have to address more thab one problem for sleep.
By the time I fouind the right pysician, my bloodwork and body was a mess. I had many lessions and I had a zero folic acid level AND no-one had cught it!!
After the diagnosis and a few years of trial and error on meds, I felt like I had a life for the first time I could even remember.
Unfortunately, my MS progressed further than I believe it would have had I been diagnosed earlier.
But I have taken the blessing side myself and feel thankful that I was, at least, finally diagnosed. I have a physician who is INVOLVED, CARES, and will try any avenue outside the box to help me. In fact, at 44 years old, I am now blessed with a four year old son. Every day may bring a new challenge as a single mom with MS, but I face it thankfully.
And, yes, I get frustrated at the amount od meds I have to take some days, but then I realiaze that I WOULD NOT have a son sitting here beside me without them.
PLease find a physician who listens. I may takes meds to get up every morning, but at least there are meds that will give us the energy to get some injoyment out of life. I have extreme fatigue from combination of MS, anti-depressants, and pain meds. However, I takes a methylphenidate twice a day to give me energy.
Rememeber that in more than one way you are blessed. You are finding out early about the MS is one blessing.
Now just find that doc that will look at EVERY avenue to give you the life you deserve!!!!
I'm not sure why I went on so much...I just left lead too!!
I answered on the MS forum, but I do have MS, dx confirmed. Favorite position, side.
I was diagnosed in 1993 with MS and I sleep on my right side for the most part and if not I am on my left side...I NEVER sleep on my back. I have been diagnosed with asthma and chronic bronchitis and perhaps that has something to do with not sleeping on my back...it's harder to breathe when lying on the back!
Rena705
Rena705
First, thank you for your interest and dedication to this forum. Since finding MedHelp, I have been very impressed with many aspects of the site, but most of all with the wonderful people who have a hand in making it work.
Just to clarify, in the MS forum, you specified that you were polling those with known MS. I've only been reading a few weeks, but it looks to me like a large part of that forum's readers and posters are those who fear that they have MS, but have not been diagnosed. I'm one of those. I suspect that your study will more likely provide you with the results you seek if the population excludes me.
As it happens, I do use CPAP (since sometime last spring or summer) and I prefer to sleep on my left side. When I was younger, a smoker, and thinner, I tended to sleep on my back, and my wife claimed I snored quite a bit. Both my parents were smokers, and their snoring sometimes woke us up when we were kids.
Just to clarify, in the MS forum, you specified that you were polling those with known MS. I've only been reading a few weeks, but it looks to me like a large part of that forum's readers and posters are those who fear that they have MS, but have not been diagnosed. I'm one of those. I suspect that your study will more likely provide you with the results you seek if the population excludes me.
As it happens, I do use CPAP (since sometime last spring or summer) and I prefer to sleep on my left side. When I was younger, a smoker, and thinner, I tended to sleep on my back, and my wife claimed I snored quite a bit. Both my parents were smokers, and their snoring sometimes woke us up when we were kids.
Favorite sleep position is right side.
Elaine (voting for my husband who has MS)
Elaine (voting for my husband who has MS)
A related discussion, Sleep Walking was started.
Hello Dr. Park,
My sister has MS. She was disganosed shortly after giving birth to her twin girls. Since she was diagnosed ( a little over a year ago) she has been extremely depressed, afriad, anxious, and to top of the stresses of being a new mother, she has recently found that she is unable to sleep thoughout the night. She claims she gets extremly dizzy,hot, sweaty, and at times extremly cold. I think she might have sleep apnea, how is sleep apnea treated with MS patients?
My sister has MS. She was disganosed shortly after giving birth to her twin girls. Since she was diagnosed ( a little over a year ago) she has been extremely depressed, afriad, anxious, and to top of the stresses of being a new mother, she has recently found that she is unable to sleep thoughout the night. She claims she gets extremly dizzy,hot, sweaty, and at times extremly cold. I think she might have sleep apnea, how is sleep apnea treated with MS patients?
I was diagnosed with MS in May 2008 and constant fatigue has been an issue. However, in the last 6 weeks or so I have found myself even more tired and taking naps just to make it through the day. The naps are supposed to be 15-20 minutes-I set alarms-but I end up taking a 3-4 hour nap instead or like today I slept most of the night and most of the day.
I am a college student and occasionally miss classes because I can't wake up or don't want to. Granted I also suffer from Severe Depression and am working with my doctor to find the right medication(s), but I can't tell if it's just the MS, just the depression, or both.
My most favorite position to sleep is on my stomach (even though it hurts my back), but I sleep on my right side and left side most.
I am a college student and occasionally miss classes because I can't wake up or don't want to. Granted I also suffer from Severe Depression and am working with my doctor to find the right medication(s), but I can't tell if it's just the MS, just the depression, or both.
My most favorite position to sleep is on my stomach (even though it hurts my back), but I sleep on my right side and left side most.
Thanks again for visiting our MS forum. I think it was a very productive discussion and will have a lot of doctors hearing their patients question if a sleep study may in order as part of their treatment. This may not be an answer for all of us, but if even a few are helped it would be a tremendous help.
You really went above and beyond with this - thank you again for your interest. I'll continue to read your posts here - you do keep my interest with your musings about sleep.
Be well, do good,
Laura
You really went above and beyond with this - thank you again for your interest. I'll continue to read your posts here - you do keep my interest with your musings about sleep.
Be well, do good,
Laura
Dr. Park,
You certainly have the responses going over on the MS forum ... :-)
The article I mentioned is in the January/February 2009 issue of Neurology Now, a magazine put out by the American Academy of Neurology for patients and families. You can access it online at neurologynow.com but you may have to subscribe first. If you would like, send me your email address through a private message and I will scan the article and send it to you as a pdf.
The article cites a study done by Christopher Bever, MD, University of Maryland. He studied 206 MS patients and found 75 experienced movement disorders during sleep. The other 131 have other sleep disorders. If I read the numbers correctly, he reports that all 206 of the patients have sleep problems. The investigator can't determine if all of the sleep problems are related to the MS or if they are simply in addition to the sleep disorders. It also stresses it is important to have sleep evaluated and being diagnosed appropriately for the problem rather than just guessing what might be causing the difficulties with sleep. It's a very interesting article that I hope you can access or have me send to you.
My best,
Laura
You certainly have the responses going over on the MS forum ... :-)
The article I mentioned is in the January/February 2009 issue of Neurology Now, a magazine put out by the American Academy of Neurology for patients and families. You can access it online at neurologynow.com but you may have to subscribe first. If you would like, send me your email address through a private message and I will scan the article and send it to you as a pdf.
The article cites a study done by Christopher Bever, MD, University of Maryland. He studied 206 MS patients and found 75 experienced movement disorders during sleep. The other 131 have other sleep disorders. If I read the numbers correctly, he reports that all 206 of the patients have sleep problems. The investigator can't determine if all of the sleep problems are related to the MS or if they are simply in addition to the sleep disorders. It also stresses it is important to have sleep evaluated and being diagnosed appropriately for the problem rather than just guessing what might be causing the difficulties with sleep. It's a very interesting article that I hope you can access or have me send to you.
My best,
Laura
I already posted - can't count me twice. Just - Congrats - what a blessing!! Also, wanted to identify myself as Jan from the other post. I have been formally dx with Sleep Apnea - very severe. I'm thin and don't snore. BiPap isn't working for me, but I use O2 every night and some days (pulmonary hypertension - mild). Also, Fatigue is a huge problem for me. Just Info for the cause! Thanks, Jan
Oh, congratulations and best wishes, too!
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