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Hashimoto's thyroiditis
Hello All,
Recently, I have seen information related to Hashimoto's Thyroiditis where it has been mentioned that Hashi can trigger not only thyroid antibodies but antibodies associated with connective tissues. I am wondering if anyone has relief from Hashi by removing thyroid gland or you have come across any such studies?
Recently, I have seen information related to Hashimoto's Thyroiditis where it has been mentioned that Hashi can trigger not only thyroid antibodies but antibodies associated with connective tissues. I am wondering if anyone has relief from Hashi by removing thyroid gland or you have come across any such studies?
Hydrogen Peroxide Marshals Immune System June 4, 2009 Harvard Medical School...
"Using the zebrafish as an animal model, researchers have discovered that the body uses hydrogen peroxide to sound the alarm when a tissue has been injured. As a direct result of this hydrogen-peroxide red alert, white blood cells come to the aid of the wounded site."
"When we look at how hydrogen peroxide works in people, this really starts getting intriguing," says Mitchison.
In the human body, hydrogen peroxide is produced primarily in three places: lung, gut, and thyroid gland. Because hydrogen peroxide, and the proteins responsible for producing other ROS molecules, are especially present in lung and gut, the researchers hypothesize that human diseases relevant to these findings would include any in the lung and gut that involve disproportionate levels of white blood cells, like asthma, chronic pulmonary obstruction, and some inflammatory gut diseases."
***
Selenium supplementation in thyroid associated ophthalmopathy: an update. Int J Ophthalmol. 2014 Apr 18;7(2):365-75....
"The therapeutic effect of selenium (Se) has already been proven in thyroid disease and thyroid associated ophthalmopathy (TAO).
The regulation and metabolism of thyroid hormones require a steady supply of Se and recent studies have revealed several possible mechanisms by which Se improves the severity of thyroid disease and TAO.
These mechanisms include
1) inhibitory effect of HLA-DR molecule expression on thyrocytes;
2) profound reductions of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) receptor antibodies (TSHR-Ab) and TPO antibodies (TPO-Ab);
3) prevention of dysregulation of cell-mediated immunity and B cell function;
4) neutralising reactive oxygen species (ROS) and inhibition of redox control processes required for the activation, differentiation and action of lymphocytes, macrophages, neutrophils, natural killer cells involved in both acute and chronic orbital inflammation in TAO;
5) inhibition of expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines and 6) inhibition of prostaglandin and leukotriene synthesis.
An increased oxidative stress has been observed in both acute and chronic phases of thyroid disease with raised tissue concentrations of ROS."
"Using the zebrafish as an animal model, researchers have discovered that the body uses hydrogen peroxide to sound the alarm when a tissue has been injured. As a direct result of this hydrogen-peroxide red alert, white blood cells come to the aid of the wounded site."
"When we look at how hydrogen peroxide works in people, this really starts getting intriguing," says Mitchison.
In the human body, hydrogen peroxide is produced primarily in three places: lung, gut, and thyroid gland. Because hydrogen peroxide, and the proteins responsible for producing other ROS molecules, are especially present in lung and gut, the researchers hypothesize that human diseases relevant to these findings would include any in the lung and gut that involve disproportionate levels of white blood cells, like asthma, chronic pulmonary obstruction, and some inflammatory gut diseases."
***
Selenium supplementation in thyroid associated ophthalmopathy: an update. Int J Ophthalmol. 2014 Apr 18;7(2):365-75....
"The therapeutic effect of selenium (Se) has already been proven in thyroid disease and thyroid associated ophthalmopathy (TAO).
The regulation and metabolism of thyroid hormones require a steady supply of Se and recent studies have revealed several possible mechanisms by which Se improves the severity of thyroid disease and TAO.
These mechanisms include
1) inhibitory effect of HLA-DR molecule expression on thyrocytes;
2) profound reductions of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) receptor antibodies (TSHR-Ab) and TPO antibodies (TPO-Ab);
3) prevention of dysregulation of cell-mediated immunity and B cell function;
4) neutralising reactive oxygen species (ROS) and inhibition of redox control processes required for the activation, differentiation and action of lymphocytes, macrophages, neutrophils, natural killer cells involved in both acute and chronic orbital inflammation in TAO;
5) inhibition of expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines and 6) inhibition of prostaglandin and leukotriene synthesis.
An increased oxidative stress has been observed in both acute and chronic phases of thyroid disease with raised tissue concentrations of ROS."
COMMUNITY LEADER
"The point is, unless we can convincingly prove that immune system per-se has issues, it is unconceivable (sic) to state that as a fact. Add to this the fact that, none of the medicines to control the immune system have ever worked effectively."
Hashimoto's is, by definition, a condition in which your immune system attacks the thyroid (Mayo Clinic). It doesn't say the immune system has "issues"; merely that it's attacking the thyroid, for whatever reason.
We, here on this forum, are not trying to tell anyone how to control the immune system; if you'll note, our message is that there is no cure for Hashimoto's and the treatments are to control the resulting hypothyroidism (or hyperthyroidism, if that's the case).
It's true that, often, what appears on the surface is not, actually, the case and when it's been proven that a medication or treatment "can" control the immune system or that Hashimoto's (or or any autoimmune disease) can be cured, our message will change to reflect that.
If someone finds that changing their diet or taking a specific supplement makes them feel better, by all means, they should do that, but that doesn't mean they've found a cure or way that's going to help everyone.
Hashimoto's is, by definition, a condition in which your immune system attacks the thyroid (Mayo Clinic). It doesn't say the immune system has "issues"; merely that it's attacking the thyroid, for whatever reason.
We, here on this forum, are not trying to tell anyone how to control the immune system; if you'll note, our message is that there is no cure for Hashimoto's and the treatments are to control the resulting hypothyroidism (or hyperthyroidism, if that's the case).
It's true that, often, what appears on the surface is not, actually, the case and when it's been proven that a medication or treatment "can" control the immune system or that Hashimoto's (or or any autoimmune disease) can be cured, our message will change to reflect that.
If someone finds that changing their diet or taking a specific supplement makes them feel better, by all means, they should do that, but that doesn't mean they've found a cure or way that's going to help everyone.
COMMUNITY LEADER
"It is proposed that there is an accumulation of dead RBC in the brain due to improper blood draining. Immune system is trying to clean that up."
It's also been proposed that Hashimoto's is caused by leaky gut, but to my knowledge, that hasn't been proven yet, either...
Something that has been proposed or theorized has not been proven.. I'm not saying that research won't, eventually, prove conventional methods wrong, but until it's proven beyond doubt, we can't discard conventional methods and send people off on wild chases that will do them no good. That's been done by a number of doctors, authors and others looking to make a lot of money off sick people. Just search the internet for those selling books, diets and supplements claiming to "cure" Hashimoto's or greatly reduce the effects.
As I noted, previously, nothing can undo damage that's already been done, yet some of these people make it sound like their products will do just that. Again, follow the money.
It's also been proposed that Hashimoto's is caused by leaky gut, but to my knowledge, that hasn't been proven yet, either...
Something that has been proposed or theorized has not been proven.. I'm not saying that research won't, eventually, prove conventional methods wrong, but until it's proven beyond doubt, we can't discard conventional methods and send people off on wild chases that will do them no good. That's been done by a number of doctors, authors and others looking to make a lot of money off sick people. Just search the internet for those selling books, diets and supplements claiming to "cure" Hashimoto's or greatly reduce the effects.
As I noted, previously, nothing can undo damage that's already been done, yet some of these people make it sound like their products will do just that. Again, follow the money.
1 Comments
Barb,
I agree with you.
My issue is two fold,
1) why should one just assume that because we see abnormality in immune system, the problem lies with immune system itself. Time and again, nature has proven us wrong that what appears on the surface is actually something else.
2) why almost every article/literature does not even try to acknowledge the possibility that immune system is probably just doing its job and root cause could be something else
The point is, unless we can convincingly prove that immune system per-se has issues, it is unconceivable to state that as a fact. Add to this the fact that, none of the medicines to control the immune system have ever worked effectively.
Anyway, those are my 2 cents ...
I agree with you.
My issue is two fold,
1) why should one just assume that because we see abnormality in immune system, the problem lies with immune system itself. Time and again, nature has proven us wrong that what appears on the surface is actually something else.
2) why almost every article/literature does not even try to acknowledge the possibility that immune system is probably just doing its job and root cause could be something else
The point is, unless we can convincingly prove that immune system per-se has issues, it is unconceivable to state that as a fact. Add to this the fact that, none of the medicines to control the immune system have ever worked effectively.
Anyway, those are my 2 cents ...
COMMUNITY LEADER
Actually, I do think there's a hidden agenda in the idea that Hashimoto's and/or other auto-immune diseases can be "cured" or even controlled... follow the money!! There's a huge market for products and services to people who believe they can get rid of their disease...
Even looking at the connection between selenium and antibodies - yes, it's been shown that selenium can reduce antibody counts. But consider the possibility that your antibody count is 1000 and you reduce them by 50%; that's great, but you still have 50% of them left to continue the destruction. While we've seen plenty of anecdotal stories, I've never seen any reliable scientific evidence that it's possible to get rid of ALL of the antibodies. I, personally, have been taking selenium for 8 years and my antibody count only reduced when my thyroid was completely destroyed and there was nothing left to attack...
The fact remains that nothing can undo damage that's already been done, whether it be to a thyroid gland or most other parts of the body.
Last but not least, the gentleman in the video made it quite clear that much of what he was saying was "theory" only. On the other hand, a lot of what he was saying about T3 being needed by every cell in the body is what we say, here on the forum, in nearly every thread. No one will dispute that.
I don't think there's any one clear issue with autoimmunity... I think we have the pre-disposition for the diseases, then perhaps whether we get them or not depends on our environment, among other things.
Even looking at the connection between selenium and antibodies - yes, it's been shown that selenium can reduce antibody counts. But consider the possibility that your antibody count is 1000 and you reduce them by 50%; that's great, but you still have 50% of them left to continue the destruction. While we've seen plenty of anecdotal stories, I've never seen any reliable scientific evidence that it's possible to get rid of ALL of the antibodies. I, personally, have been taking selenium for 8 years and my antibody count only reduced when my thyroid was completely destroyed and there was nothing left to attack...
The fact remains that nothing can undo damage that's already been done, whether it be to a thyroid gland or most other parts of the body.
Last but not least, the gentleman in the video made it quite clear that much of what he was saying was "theory" only. On the other hand, a lot of what he was saying about T3 being needed by every cell in the body is what we say, here on the forum, in nearly every thread. No one will dispute that.
I don't think there's any one clear issue with autoimmunity... I think we have the pre-disposition for the diseases, then perhaps whether we get them or not depends on our environment, among other things.
1 Comments
Barb,
The issue is that Doctors keep propagating the idea that auto-immune disease is created due to faulty immune system. Presence of antibodies does not mean that immune system is faulty. That is so superficial way to analyze things.
The same thing is happening wrt to multiple sclerosis. It is proposed that there is an accumulation of dead RBC in the brain due to improper blood draining. Immune system is trying to clean that up. Exact same scenario as Hashi. Even here, conventional thought is that our immune system has gone haywire and that is why it keeps attaching brain and myelin ...
The issue is that Doctors keep propagating the idea that auto-immune disease is created due to faulty immune system. Presence of antibodies does not mean that immune system is faulty. That is so superficial way to analyze things.
The same thing is happening wrt to multiple sclerosis. It is proposed that there is an accumulation of dead RBC in the brain due to improper blood draining. Immune system is trying to clean that up. Exact same scenario as Hashi. Even here, conventional thought is that our immune system has gone haywire and that is why it keeps attaching brain and myelin ...
Dear Redstar and Barb,
Please note that there are theories that imply that our immune system in Hashimoto's is activated due to the fact that there is a large accumulation of hydrogen peroxide in the thyroid gland. The immune system is trying to clean-up, as can be seen from thyroid anti body tests. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8zw-W0aoQM. This is one such video that tries to explain how accumulation of hydrogen peroxide can trigger Hashi.
The conventional explanation for most of the auto immune diseases is that our immune system goes hay wire and not many try to study the possibility that it could be some changes in the target organ itself that could be causing this. I don't know if auto-immune theory is being pushed with some hidden agenda in mind.
Also note that, similar theory is being proposed in case of other auto-immune disease like Multiple sclerosis (CCSVI).
I would not be surprised if decade down the line, some of the auto-immune diseases would be redefined.
I don't disagree that one can be predisposed such that immune system is more sensitive than others.
Please note that there are theories that imply that our immune system in Hashimoto's is activated due to the fact that there is a large accumulation of hydrogen peroxide in the thyroid gland. The immune system is trying to clean-up, as can be seen from thyroid anti body tests. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8zw-W0aoQM. This is one such video that tries to explain how accumulation of hydrogen peroxide can trigger Hashi.
The conventional explanation for most of the auto immune diseases is that our immune system goes hay wire and not many try to study the possibility that it could be some changes in the target organ itself that could be causing this. I don't know if auto-immune theory is being pushed with some hidden agenda in mind.
Also note that, similar theory is being proposed in case of other auto-immune disease like Multiple sclerosis (CCSVI).
I would not be surprised if decade down the line, some of the auto-immune diseases would be redefined.
I don't disagree that one can be predisposed such that immune system is more sensitive than others.
COMMUNITY LEADER
When one has Hashimoto's, it's not the antibodies, themselves, that cause the majority of the symptoms; it's the resulting hypothyroidism... Removing the thyroid, makes one completely dependent on replacement thyroid hormone medication for life, just as one would be following complete destruction of the thyroid, by antibodies.
I mean to say if you already have an autoimmune disease you are at 14 - 25% increased risk of another autoimmune disease.
I meant to say you have a 14% - 25% increased risk of developing another autoimmune disease if you already have one.
Autoimmune diseases are a combination of genetics and an environmental trigger (eg: virus, deficiency state). If you don't have the gene for a certain autoimmune disease you won't develop that disease.
With Hashimoto's thyroiditis there are various genes listed such as HLA-DR5. There are other autoimmune diseases also listed under the same genes seen with Hashimoto's thyroiditis so you are at an increased risk (I've read anything from 14% to 25%) of developing one or more autoimmune diseases listed under these genes.
Removing the thyroid gland will not stop the immune system from continuing the attacking on another body part/s (should you have another autoimmune disease/s) or prevent a possible trigger of an autoimmune disease.
The following info is from the book "The Everything Guide To Thyroid Disease" by Theodore C. Friedman, MD, PhD and Winnie Yu Scherer:
"Although the majority of people with Hashimoto's will not develop any other disorders, it's important to know what some of these autoimmune conditions are in case you do start to experience symptoms. Keep in mind, too, that you may be more likely to develop Hashimoto's if you have one of these other conditions.
Type 1 diabetes
Pernicious Anaemia
Addison's Disease
Vitiligo
Celiac Disease
Alopecia Areta
Systematic Lupus Erthematosus (SLE)
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Sjogren's Syndrome
Inflammatory Bowel Disease
Multiple Sclerosis (MS)"
With Hashimoto's thyroiditis there are various genes listed such as HLA-DR5. There are other autoimmune diseases also listed under the same genes seen with Hashimoto's thyroiditis so you are at an increased risk (I've read anything from 14% to 25%) of developing one or more autoimmune diseases listed under these genes.
Removing the thyroid gland will not stop the immune system from continuing the attacking on another body part/s (should you have another autoimmune disease/s) or prevent a possible trigger of an autoimmune disease.
The following info is from the book "The Everything Guide To Thyroid Disease" by Theodore C. Friedman, MD, PhD and Winnie Yu Scherer:
"Although the majority of people with Hashimoto's will not develop any other disorders, it's important to know what some of these autoimmune conditions are in case you do start to experience symptoms. Keep in mind, too, that you may be more likely to develop Hashimoto's if you have one of these other conditions.
Type 1 diabetes
Pernicious Anaemia
Addison's Disease
Vitiligo
Celiac Disease
Alopecia Areta
Systematic Lupus Erthematosus (SLE)
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Sjogren's Syndrome
Inflammatory Bowel Disease
Multiple Sclerosis (MS)"
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