Aa
More research connecting gluten to thryoid disease
This article is from Mary Shomon, thyroid patient advocate.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm
Many of you know my antibody attacks quit after I quit gluten. Though I know the GF diet isn't for everyone, keep in mind that gluten be the source of your thyroid disease.
:) Tamra
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm
Many of you know my antibody attacks quit after I quit gluten. Though I know the GF diet isn't for everyone, keep in mind that gluten be the source of your thyroid disease.
:) Tamra
Hi, folks,
This has been a great discussion and I've learned a lot! Despite some negativity, you've all provided some great information and food for thought. At this point, though, it seems as though the same ground is being covered again and again, with nothing new forthcoming.
Although this discussion is now closed, it remains open for reading so that people can process the info and make up their own minds. There's also another thread that incorporates some of the same ideas raised here:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Disorders/Why-Do-I-Still-Have-Thyroid-Symptoms--When-My-Lab-Tests-are-Normal-by-Datis-Kharrazian/show/1299599
***** CLOSED DISCUSSION -- No more posts, please ******
This has been a great discussion and I've learned a lot! Despite some negativity, you've all provided some great information and food for thought. At this point, though, it seems as though the same ground is being covered again and again, with nothing new forthcoming.
Although this discussion is now closed, it remains open for reading so that people can process the info and make up their own minds. There's also another thread that incorporates some of the same ideas raised here:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Disorders/Why-Do-I-Still-Have-Thyroid-Symptoms--When-My-Lab-Tests-are-Normal-by-Datis-Kharrazian/show/1299599
***** CLOSED DISCUSSION -- No more posts, please ******
When my girlfriend died last October then my Father died in January this year, I was under major stress as I was also dealing with 2 sisters who cleared out my Dads bank accounts and have since been charged.
I was also railroaded as I requested info and wasnt given it due to the coverup of fraud on behalf of my sisters who had P.O.A of my Fathers Estate for the last 10 years.
Then my daughter kicked out her partner and 6 weeks ago her 5 year old son (my grandson) was diagnosed with ADHD and then 2 weeks ago..Autism as well.
So STRESS has been my middle name since October last year.
This caused me to go 'borderline Hypo' along with the fact that I had a Pit. Tumour removed in Marsh this year.
Barb....stress does a lot of things to our bodies and I find with me....excessive major stress makes me hypo which required 2 increases in meds.
But the hypo symptoms were not devastating or major...just an inconvenience.
Prednisolone for the Hives made my FT3 plummet to an all time low but that came up within 4 weeks with the increases.
I must stipulate that through all this stress, I finished my nursing degree and also passed my med endorsed degree (legally qualified to administer medications and injections etc). I sat these exams 3 days after Dad died and found out in Febrauary I had passed.
But something I would also like to stipulate too.......I thought the Hives was from being Hypo.
It wasnt.
It was from major stress.
My levels are good now and I still get the odd ocassion where I get 'lumps and bumps' lol but just take an antihistamine and they are gone.
I have noticed a 'pattern' that my hives come up when I am stressed and at no other times.
I advise EVERYONE NOT to blame the thyroid for every little symptom as usually from something completely different and unrelated.
I blamed my levels and I was wrong and I will be the first to admit that too.
As for gluten...I eat it and dont intend giving it up.
It doesnt affect me in any way whatsoever and when I questioned the allergist about this as Celiac came back negative...he said a lot of people are ALLERGIC to gluten and that the usual treatment for that is to stop gluten then SLOWLY introduce it back into the diet.
I was also railroaded as I requested info and wasnt given it due to the coverup of fraud on behalf of my sisters who had P.O.A of my Fathers Estate for the last 10 years.
Then my daughter kicked out her partner and 6 weeks ago her 5 year old son (my grandson) was diagnosed with ADHD and then 2 weeks ago..Autism as well.
So STRESS has been my middle name since October last year.
This caused me to go 'borderline Hypo' along with the fact that I had a Pit. Tumour removed in Marsh this year.
Barb....stress does a lot of things to our bodies and I find with me....excessive major stress makes me hypo which required 2 increases in meds.
But the hypo symptoms were not devastating or major...just an inconvenience.
Prednisolone for the Hives made my FT3 plummet to an all time low but that came up within 4 weeks with the increases.
I must stipulate that through all this stress, I finished my nursing degree and also passed my med endorsed degree (legally qualified to administer medications and injections etc). I sat these exams 3 days after Dad died and found out in Febrauary I had passed.
But something I would also like to stipulate too.......I thought the Hives was from being Hypo.
It wasnt.
It was from major stress.
My levels are good now and I still get the odd ocassion where I get 'lumps and bumps' lol but just take an antihistamine and they are gone.
I have noticed a 'pattern' that my hives come up when I am stressed and at no other times.
I advise EVERYONE NOT to blame the thyroid for every little symptom as usually from something completely different and unrelated.
I blamed my levels and I was wrong and I will be the first to admit that too.
As for gluten...I eat it and dont intend giving it up.
It doesnt affect me in any way whatsoever and when I questioned the allergist about this as Celiac came back negative...he said a lot of people are ALLERGIC to gluten and that the usual treatment for that is to stop gluten then SLOWLY introduce it back into the diet.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I can't argue on any of your points. I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood that you ate less food, not less gluten.
I have not given up gluten either; don't plan to because both my pcp and endo have told me there's no reason to.
I do still have some issues - tiredness (not the eternal fatigue), and weight issues, but I know where that's all coming from. I was doing great, until my aunt was recently dx'd with breast cancer and since I'm responsible for her, it's fallen to me to deal with her issues as well as mine and she lives about an hour and 1/2 away from me. It's not unusual for me to be talking to her doctors, testing facilities, pharmacies, etc as much or more as I deal with my own. The stress is what's doing the damage. I thank God daily that my levels were good when all of this started or I would not have been able to deal with it.
In addition to that, during the summer, I am required to work 10 hour days (I get up at 3:00 am and go to bed around 7:00 pm, except on weekends); I've often commented to friends that I seem to be really tired lately and they'll ask what I've been doing. When I run the list, they look at me like I'm nuts and say "geez, I got tired listening to you"........so I guess with my schedule and everything else going on, I have a right to get tired.
I am on the go all day, as well, and I don't always make sure I have enough healthy stuff with me --- therein, lies my downfall. I eat breakfast (usually egg and whole wheat toast) at about 4:00 am, then carry some fruit (usually fresh cherries) with me for my "2nd breakfast"/snack around 8:00; depending on where I am/what I'm doing, lunch often ends up being drive through at a fast food place around noon. I rarely eat an evening meal, but that fast food lunch ended up being enough to cover all the calories for the day........lol
All of this doesn't take into consideration that I think I have some pre-diabetes issues going on. I do check my fasting blood sugar and it's often well over 100; my last A1c, done a couple of years ago was right at the top of the range, so (former) pcp wouldn't look at the records I'd been keeping. I've been rather lax with the record keeping, but I know the issue didn't go away.
I've come to realize that there are times that we can't blame all of our issues on thyroid. We have to look at what's going on in our lives and take everything into account - treating the entire body/lifestyle.
I have not given up gluten either; don't plan to because both my pcp and endo have told me there's no reason to.
I do still have some issues - tiredness (not the eternal fatigue), and weight issues, but I know where that's all coming from. I was doing great, until my aunt was recently dx'd with breast cancer and since I'm responsible for her, it's fallen to me to deal with her issues as well as mine and she lives about an hour and 1/2 away from me. It's not unusual for me to be talking to her doctors, testing facilities, pharmacies, etc as much or more as I deal with my own. The stress is what's doing the damage. I thank God daily that my levels were good when all of this started or I would not have been able to deal with it.
In addition to that, during the summer, I am required to work 10 hour days (I get up at 3:00 am and go to bed around 7:00 pm, except on weekends); I've often commented to friends that I seem to be really tired lately and they'll ask what I've been doing. When I run the list, they look at me like I'm nuts and say "geez, I got tired listening to you"........so I guess with my schedule and everything else going on, I have a right to get tired.
I am on the go all day, as well, and I don't always make sure I have enough healthy stuff with me --- therein, lies my downfall. I eat breakfast (usually egg and whole wheat toast) at about 4:00 am, then carry some fruit (usually fresh cherries) with me for my "2nd breakfast"/snack around 8:00; depending on where I am/what I'm doing, lunch often ends up being drive through at a fast food place around noon. I rarely eat an evening meal, but that fast food lunch ended up being enough to cover all the calories for the day........lol
All of this doesn't take into consideration that I think I have some pre-diabetes issues going on. I do check my fasting blood sugar and it's often well over 100; my last A1c, done a couple of years ago was right at the top of the range, so (former) pcp wouldn't look at the records I'd been keeping. I've been rather lax with the record keeping, but I know the issue didn't go away.
I've come to realize that there are times that we can't blame all of our issues on thyroid. We have to look at what's going on in our lives and take everything into account - treating the entire body/lifestyle.
"Your antibody "attacks" have stopped?"
Due to G/F diet.
I'm so glad for you.
G/F diet hasn't helped either one of my daughter's.
SO...is there anything else...you've been taking, using...doing?
You can share with the other's here...who suffer from antibody attack's???
Good grief!
Due to G/F diet.
I'm so glad for you.
G/F diet hasn't helped either one of my daughter's.
SO...is there anything else...you've been taking, using...doing?
You can share with the other's here...who suffer from antibody attack's???
Good grief!
With working on the road going from client to client, I often eat 'on the run'. Some days I may have lunch at say 3pm (not good but no alternative).
I am talking about food in general.
I wouldnt give up Gluten as I am not gluten intolerant, have been tested for ALL autoimmune disorders and came back negative (by a Molecular Science Doctor and also an Allergist).
Barb..I eat gluten EVERYDAY, I love bread and refuse to give up something that I dont need too.
My lunch (which I make myself and carry in a cooler bag in the car) consists on a banana or yoghurt for breakfast which is eaten an hour after thyroxin in the car as my first clients are 7am onwards so I leave home at 6.30am.
I then have sandwiches (normal bread/white/fattening one lol) consisting of usually cheese and pickles (love them lol) and I drink roughly 2 cans of Coke zero while on the run throughout the day.
By the time I do get to eat my lunch, it is late afternoon and therefore I dont feel hungry again until around 6.30pm and I cook a meal ready for 7pm.
My Doc told me that as I was 'on the go ' more...more energetic, more confident because of working that I needed LESS T4 med as my body WAS absorbing it better.
Instead of the T4 being digested by the food, it was absorbing straight into the bloodstream.
I have not cut back on G/F at any stage in my life.
I eat the same now as I always have except I try not to eat packaged /frozen foods.
I do have the odd 'binge' on a friday night and have McDonalds (that big M word lol) and am doing fine.
The reason for my weight loss is being on the go working fulltime and I have not exersised or dieted at any stage since RAI.
Do I get tired...of course I do.......Anybody who drives up to 100 kilometres a day and works sometimes a 14 hour day WILL get tired....oh and being 50 too lol.
Do I have bowel issues...NO.
Do I feel sick ? NO
Am I depressed? NO
Do I carry fluid anymore? No. Not since 6 months after RAI when I got levels stabilised.
Am I on a T3 med? NO
Am I happy? YES
There is only one issue I have and this has been checked and tested by 3 specialists.....every now and then I will suffer from Hives (Uticaria) . This has now been pin-pointed down to stress over my youngest daughter.
Whenever she is going through a hard time, I worry about her and Hives appear but not bad like before.
So Barb...as I always say...if it aint broken...dont fix it.
I will NOT give up Gluten just because everyone seems to think it causes problems with ALL thyroid disorders.
After speaking to a Mollecular Scientist, he told me that most of the issues we have in regards to thyroid issues, are from genes and are genetic.
Once you start 'digging ' into mollecular science, you unravel a whole new ballgame.
And THIS is what can cause the problems.
I have a heart murmur from birth (born with Rheumatic Fever), prolapse of Mitral and Tricuspid valves and see a Cardio every year and just got the all clear once again a few months ago.
A positive attitude is the secret to wellness in my books.
I am talking about food in general.
I wouldnt give up Gluten as I am not gluten intolerant, have been tested for ALL autoimmune disorders and came back negative (by a Molecular Science Doctor and also an Allergist).
Barb..I eat gluten EVERYDAY, I love bread and refuse to give up something that I dont need too.
My lunch (which I make myself and carry in a cooler bag in the car) consists on a banana or yoghurt for breakfast which is eaten an hour after thyroxin in the car as my first clients are 7am onwards so I leave home at 6.30am.
I then have sandwiches (normal bread/white/fattening one lol) consisting of usually cheese and pickles (love them lol) and I drink roughly 2 cans of Coke zero while on the run throughout the day.
By the time I do get to eat my lunch, it is late afternoon and therefore I dont feel hungry again until around 6.30pm and I cook a meal ready for 7pm.
My Doc told me that as I was 'on the go ' more...more energetic, more confident because of working that I needed LESS T4 med as my body WAS absorbing it better.
Instead of the T4 being digested by the food, it was absorbing straight into the bloodstream.
I have not cut back on G/F at any stage in my life.
I eat the same now as I always have except I try not to eat packaged /frozen foods.
I do have the odd 'binge' on a friday night and have McDonalds (that big M word lol) and am doing fine.
The reason for my weight loss is being on the go working fulltime and I have not exersised or dieted at any stage since RAI.
Do I get tired...of course I do.......Anybody who drives up to 100 kilometres a day and works sometimes a 14 hour day WILL get tired....oh and being 50 too lol.
Do I have bowel issues...NO.
Do I feel sick ? NO
Am I depressed? NO
Do I carry fluid anymore? No. Not since 6 months after RAI when I got levels stabilised.
Am I on a T3 med? NO
Am I happy? YES
There is only one issue I have and this has been checked and tested by 3 specialists.....every now and then I will suffer from Hives (Uticaria) . This has now been pin-pointed down to stress over my youngest daughter.
Whenever she is going through a hard time, I worry about her and Hives appear but not bad like before.
So Barb...as I always say...if it aint broken...dont fix it.
I will NOT give up Gluten just because everyone seems to think it causes problems with ALL thyroid disorders.
After speaking to a Mollecular Scientist, he told me that most of the issues we have in regards to thyroid issues, are from genes and are genetic.
Once you start 'digging ' into mollecular science, you unravel a whole new ballgame.
And THIS is what can cause the problems.
I have a heart murmur from birth (born with Rheumatic Fever), prolapse of Mitral and Tricuspid valves and see a Cardio every year and just got the all clear once again a few months ago.
A positive attitude is the secret to wellness in my books.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You said: "I do not have Hashi's but do have Graves and my dosage of T4 med has also been decreased in the past but that had nothing whatsoever to do with gluten free as I am not gluten free.
I did notice that the less I ate, the less T4 med I needed and I have no thyroid."
Are you talking about the less food in general that you ate? or the less food with gluten that you ate? I understand that you have not gone g/f -- have you cut back on it at all?
The reason I ask is because I had to cut back on my levo some time ago, also, and I was trying to limit the calories in order to lose some weight; just wondering if that's the link? Less food in the stomach, better absorption, even with gluten?
Whatever the reason for the decrease, it still counts as a decrease, right? LOL
I did notice that the less I ate, the less T4 med I needed and I have no thyroid."
Are you talking about the less food in general that you ate? or the less food with gluten that you ate? I understand that you have not gone g/f -- have you cut back on it at all?
The reason I ask is because I had to cut back on my levo some time ago, also, and I was trying to limit the calories in order to lose some weight; just wondering if that's the link? Less food in the stomach, better absorption, even with gluten?
Whatever the reason for the decrease, it still counts as a decrease, right? LOL
Hashimoto's typically involves a slow but steady destruction of the gland that eventually results in the thyroid's inability to produce sufficient thyroid hormone -- the condition known as hypothyroidism.
Along the way, however, there can be periods where the thyroid sputters back to life, even causing temporary hyperthyroidism, then a return to hypothyroidism.
This cycling back and forth between hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism is characteristic of Hashimoto's disease.
So, for example, periods of anxiety/insomnia/diarrhea/weight loss may be followed by periods of depression/fatigue/constipation/weight gain.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyroidism/a/hashivshypo.htm
Along the way, however, there can be periods where the thyroid sputters back to life, even causing temporary hyperthyroidism, then a return to hypothyroidism.
This cycling back and forth between hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism is characteristic of Hashimoto's disease.
So, for example, periods of anxiety/insomnia/diarrhea/weight loss may be followed by periods of depression/fatigue/constipation/weight gain.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyroidism/a/hashivshypo.htm
Notice in my last posting I said ...PHASE.
Because thats all it is ...a phase of normal levels while having Hashimoto antibodies.
Because thats all it is ...a phase of normal levels while having Hashimoto antibodies.
I do not have Hashi's but do have Graves and my dosage of T4 med has also been decreased in the past but that had nothing whatsoever to do with gluten free as I am not gluten free.
I did notice that the less I ate, the less T4 med I needed and I have no thyroid.
It had nothing to do with the Graves antibodies ....just the fact that I was MORE active at work and eating LESS...hence the need for a decrease in meds.
But Yes I do agree with Goolarras postings in the fact that G/F has been rammed down our throats non stop for the past few months with no scientific back up to prove that it is beneficial to EVERYONE.
Personally myself...I have no issues with the gut,intestines or gluten so will continue taking gluten.
There are too many quacks out there who tell you a heap of garbage.
If it works for some...then great but it is NOT for everyone.
But it is also worthwhile remembering that MANY Hashi persons will go through a 'normal' thyroid function level 'phase' even though they have Hashi antibodies.
And that IS a scientific fact.
I did notice that the less I ate, the less T4 med I needed and I have no thyroid.
It had nothing to do with the Graves antibodies ....just the fact that I was MORE active at work and eating LESS...hence the need for a decrease in meds.
But Yes I do agree with Goolarras postings in the fact that G/F has been rammed down our throats non stop for the past few months with no scientific back up to prove that it is beneficial to EVERYONE.
Personally myself...I have no issues with the gut,intestines or gluten so will continue taking gluten.
There are too many quacks out there who tell you a heap of garbage.
If it works for some...then great but it is NOT for everyone.
But it is also worthwhile remembering that MANY Hashi persons will go through a 'normal' thyroid function level 'phase' even though they have Hashi antibodies.
And that IS a scientific fact.
Tamra, you are an intelligent woman, so I'm sure you're not missing the point, rather evading it.
Yes, "new" and "different" ideas have been adopted in thyroid treatment throughout the years. However, these were based on science, not someone's holey theory.
You just said your antibodies have not changed...how can you still insist your antibody "attacks" have stopped? You're taking less hormone due to better absorption...more is getting into your bloodstream without being immediately eliminated. A moot point, isn't it?
The point is that your success can be shared, but it has to be done on a much more individual basis. You have abused it, and it has gotten out of perspective. I believe the forum is starting to suffer from it. Many, many of us have had just as much success to wellness, and we changed little to nothing in our diets. What works for you, might not work for someone else.
However, apparently you are right, NOTHING any of us can say will influence you in the slightest. I'm right; the world's wrong??? I'm getting quite tired of talking to the wall personally. I usually pretty much know when I've been flipped off.
Yes, "new" and "different" ideas have been adopted in thyroid treatment throughout the years. However, these were based on science, not someone's holey theory.
You just said your antibodies have not changed...how can you still insist your antibody "attacks" have stopped? You're taking less hormone due to better absorption...more is getting into your bloodstream without being immediately eliminated. A moot point, isn't it?
The point is that your success can be shared, but it has to be done on a much more individual basis. You have abused it, and it has gotten out of perspective. I believe the forum is starting to suffer from it. Many, many of us have had just as much success to wellness, and we changed little to nothing in our diets. What works for you, might not work for someone else.
However, apparently you are right, NOTHING any of us can say will influence you in the slightest. I'm right; the world's wrong??? I'm getting quite tired of talking to the wall personally. I usually pretty much know when I've been flipped off.
No, I'm not missing the point here. Any idea that doesn't fit into your nice little box is considered absurd and not worth sharing. It's very discouraging for new thyroid patients who come here looking for a way out of their misery and all other options have failed.
Many years ago, when the approach to treating thyroid disease was simply measuring and treating TSH with a synthetic T4 drug, those who screamed for T3 hormone and FT3 and reverse T3 tests were shunned by many high ranking doctors. Actually, that practice is still going on today by many otherwise esteemed endos. If these conventional thyroid treatments worked so well, we wouldn't need this forum.
Now, here I am, sharing my success, which, absolutely is thyroid related if my antibody attacks have STOPPED, and I'm taking MUCH less thyroid hormone and if MANY of my Hashi friends are seeing similar results with a change in diet. But my dietary changes are not to your liking, so I must be silenced. That is the point I'm getting.
I have a right to share my success story with other thyroid patients. I will not be bullied. I have already been to hell and back, so your insults mean little and do not dampen my mood. NOTHING you say will discourage me from sharing my journey to wellness.
I've got a busy week and may not make it to the forum, so someone else will have the last word, I'm sure.
Take care everyone...
:) Tamra
Many years ago, when the approach to treating thyroid disease was simply measuring and treating TSH with a synthetic T4 drug, those who screamed for T3 hormone and FT3 and reverse T3 tests were shunned by many high ranking doctors. Actually, that practice is still going on today by many otherwise esteemed endos. If these conventional thyroid treatments worked so well, we wouldn't need this forum.
Now, here I am, sharing my success, which, absolutely is thyroid related if my antibody attacks have STOPPED, and I'm taking MUCH less thyroid hormone and if MANY of my Hashi friends are seeing similar results with a change in diet. But my dietary changes are not to your liking, so I must be silenced. That is the point I'm getting.
I have a right to share my success story with other thyroid patients. I will not be bullied. I have already been to hell and back, so your insults mean little and do not dampen my mood. NOTHING you say will discourage me from sharing my journey to wellness.
I've got a busy week and may not make it to the forum, so someone else will have the last word, I'm sure.
Take care everyone...
:) Tamra
K's book has a huge bibliography. However, I don't think it's incumbent on us to go through it all to find the studies that actually support his theory...it's incumbent on YOU as the promoter of this theory to provide links to the original studies.
As I've said right along...if it makes you feel better, do it...but do not proclaim it to be cause or cure of Hashi's without studies to prove it. Your friends' antibodies may have gone down by the thousands, but are they down to zero? That's really all that's important. If they haven't gone to zero, then they will continue to destroy thyroid function, and they will eventually again require thyroid meds.
I totally agree: ".Maybe we don't all agree that gluten and leaky gut syndrome is somehow connected to thyroid disease, but I think we can all agree that if you remove something from your diet and you feel better, then it was a wise decision to remove it." Absolutely, but if you cannot positively link this to an improvement in your THYROID condition, then perhaps the amount of exposure it's received here is inappropriate to a THYROID forum.
"I'm sure there are many, many thyroid patients with similar stories, and I feel compelled to help them know that they might have the same results as me through dietary changes." This is the point, Tamra, there is no evidence that this approach helps thyroid patients who do not have other issues (gut, general health, poor diet, etc.). You have to relate this to THYROID patients.
I think you missed a post or two (or two hundred) when you were scrolling. Your "three most recent posts about my progress" were but the tip of the iceberg in all your posts over the last few months pushing the book and the gluten/Hashi's connection. I would invite any one interested to scroll a little more slowly through your posts. I'm sorry, but you took a very selective sampling of your posts. You and I both have the same disease, so we are naturally attracted to the same questions on the forum...I read a lot of your replies...there were literally hundreds promoting both K and g/f.
As I've said right along...if it makes you feel better, do it...but do not proclaim it to be cause or cure of Hashi's without studies to prove it. Your friends' antibodies may have gone down by the thousands, but are they down to zero? That's really all that's important. If they haven't gone to zero, then they will continue to destroy thyroid function, and they will eventually again require thyroid meds.
I totally agree: ".Maybe we don't all agree that gluten and leaky gut syndrome is somehow connected to thyroid disease, but I think we can all agree that if you remove something from your diet and you feel better, then it was a wise decision to remove it." Absolutely, but if you cannot positively link this to an improvement in your THYROID condition, then perhaps the amount of exposure it's received here is inappropriate to a THYROID forum.
"I'm sure there are many, many thyroid patients with similar stories, and I feel compelled to help them know that they might have the same results as me through dietary changes." This is the point, Tamra, there is no evidence that this approach helps thyroid patients who do not have other issues (gut, general health, poor diet, etc.). You have to relate this to THYROID patients.
I think you missed a post or two (or two hundred) when you were scrolling. Your "three most recent posts about my progress" were but the tip of the iceberg in all your posts over the last few months pushing the book and the gluten/Hashi's connection. I would invite any one interested to scroll a little more slowly through your posts. I'm sorry, but you took a very selective sampling of your posts. You and I both have the same disease, so we are naturally attracted to the same questions on the forum...I read a lot of your replies...there were literally hundreds promoting both K and g/f.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You are determined that you've been persecuted aren't you? If I had the time, I'd love to go back in the threads and list every time you touted this diet, book or posted the "read my journal" comment; unfortunately, I have better things to do.
I guess we can take it that you really don't have research to back up your statements, other than to tell us to look in the back of Dr K's book. The fact that you have only one source to back up your statements, says volumes, by itself.
And you know, the really sad thing about all of this is that you still haven't even gotten the point.
I guess we can take it that you really don't have research to back up your statements, other than to tell us to look in the back of Dr K's book. The fact that you have only one source to back up your statements, says volumes, by itself.
And you know, the really sad thing about all of this is that you still haven't even gotten the point.
Well, this thread is still going, and I can't always comment since I actually do have a job and a deadline, but my artwork is uploading, so I'll chime in now.
First, Barbara, sorry for attributing Smiler's comments to you.
Next, thanks Yallolorry for trying to soothe this topic and love and light to you as well!
I will touch on a few key points before I have to split.
Dr. K's book has lots of research. Look in the footnotes in the back of his book where he refers to these studies.
About a year ago, another poster came to this forum and asked our advice because her holistic doc wanted to treat her disease. We all chimed in "NO!" I now regret that advice. I've leaned to trust in the doc who makes you feel well, whether he/she is an endo, an MD, or a holistic doctor.
I belong to another strictly Hashi online support group. Many of my friends there are on a whole food, low carb and GF diet. Many of us have had to eliminate some dairy, etc. but the key is that we all feel MUCH better. As I said in my very first post, I know the GF diet isn't for everyone, but I want others on this forum to know that I, and many of my other Hashi friends, have found much improved health through dietary changes. My friends Alice and Linda have seen their antibodies drop by the thousands and they no longer take thyroid hormone.
I am currently seeing an endo who treats my thyroid levels and gives me my much needed yearly thyroid ultrasound. However, he does not test or treat adrenals and he does not test or treat TH1/TH2 dominance. I go to a team of holistic docs (who are also chiropractors) for that. In the past several years in searching for an answer to my unexplainable illness, I've never met a team of more knowledgeable and caring doctors. I'm sure there are those chiros who specialize in accidents, etc. These docs I'm seeing are different. We have many Hashi patients in our office who are also much improved. I speak to them in the waiting room. Their good health, and my good health, validates my decision to follow a holistic approach to wellness.
My antibodies have not gone down, Goolara, however, I am not measuring my antibody levels to track my success. For me, the fact that I feel well again is a much better gauge. My adrenals are still trying to play catch-up, but I'm feeling so much better now.
Maybe we don't all agree that gluten and leaky gut syndrome is somehow connected to thyroid disease, but I think we can all agree that if you remove something from your diet and you feel better, then it was a wise decision to remove it.
Last year at this time, I could hardly get off the couch. Now, I'm reclaiming my life and making up for lost time with my child.
By the time I convinced my third endo to check my thyroid antibodies and levels, my frees were bottomed out and I'd become dependent on prescription painkillers. Can you imagine that life through my child's eyes? She cried hysterically during The Little Mermaid when she realized Arial didn't have a mother. I'm sure there are many, many thyroid patients with similar stories, and I feel compelled to help them know that they might have the same results as me through dietary changes.
This is an open forum where people should be able to bring new ideas to the table without persecution. For those who've claimed that I've inundated this site with posts about my diet, I scrolled through my three most recent posts about my progress: July 7, June 18 and April 29. That's less than one post a month. Please don't try to silence someone's opinion just because you disagree.
Take care all...
:) Tamra
First, Barbara, sorry for attributing Smiler's comments to you.
Next, thanks Yallolorry for trying to soothe this topic and love and light to you as well!
I will touch on a few key points before I have to split.
Dr. K's book has lots of research. Look in the footnotes in the back of his book where he refers to these studies.
About a year ago, another poster came to this forum and asked our advice because her holistic doc wanted to treat her disease. We all chimed in "NO!" I now regret that advice. I've leaned to trust in the doc who makes you feel well, whether he/she is an endo, an MD, or a holistic doctor.
I belong to another strictly Hashi online support group. Many of my friends there are on a whole food, low carb and GF diet. Many of us have had to eliminate some dairy, etc. but the key is that we all feel MUCH better. As I said in my very first post, I know the GF diet isn't for everyone, but I want others on this forum to know that I, and many of my other Hashi friends, have found much improved health through dietary changes. My friends Alice and Linda have seen their antibodies drop by the thousands and they no longer take thyroid hormone.
I am currently seeing an endo who treats my thyroid levels and gives me my much needed yearly thyroid ultrasound. However, he does not test or treat adrenals and he does not test or treat TH1/TH2 dominance. I go to a team of holistic docs (who are also chiropractors) for that. In the past several years in searching for an answer to my unexplainable illness, I've never met a team of more knowledgeable and caring doctors. I'm sure there are those chiros who specialize in accidents, etc. These docs I'm seeing are different. We have many Hashi patients in our office who are also much improved. I speak to them in the waiting room. Their good health, and my good health, validates my decision to follow a holistic approach to wellness.
My antibodies have not gone down, Goolara, however, I am not measuring my antibody levels to track my success. For me, the fact that I feel well again is a much better gauge. My adrenals are still trying to play catch-up, but I'm feeling so much better now.
Maybe we don't all agree that gluten and leaky gut syndrome is somehow connected to thyroid disease, but I think we can all agree that if you remove something from your diet and you feel better, then it was a wise decision to remove it.
Last year at this time, I could hardly get off the couch. Now, I'm reclaiming my life and making up for lost time with my child.
By the time I convinced my third endo to check my thyroid antibodies and levels, my frees were bottomed out and I'd become dependent on prescription painkillers. Can you imagine that life through my child's eyes? She cried hysterically during The Little Mermaid when she realized Arial didn't have a mother. I'm sure there are many, many thyroid patients with similar stories, and I feel compelled to help them know that they might have the same results as me through dietary changes.
This is an open forum where people should be able to bring new ideas to the table without persecution. For those who've claimed that I've inundated this site with posts about my diet, I scrolled through my three most recent posts about my progress: July 7, June 18 and April 29. That's less than one post a month. Please don't try to silence someone's opinion just because you disagree.
Take care all...
:) Tamra
No one's going to beat up on you! What you're seeing here, I believe, is months and months of pent up frustration surfacing. Unfortunately, since many of us have asked questions and have received no response (in this thread), but instead have been accused of "persecution" and bullying, the frustration continues to build. So, sorry if we appear threatening, we don't mean to be, but we are also only human...
I agree that this is a really interesting thread. I'd like to see more resolution before it ends.
I agree that this is a really interesting thread. I'd like to see more resolution before it ends.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Whenever someone touts a treatment as a "cure" for something that is not curable, they have to be questioned. No one has ever said that treating FT3 levels is going to cure a thyroid issue; however, studies show that FT3 levels "do" correlate best with symptoms and when FT3 is adjusted properly, most symptoms will ease or go away completely, for many people. Keep in mind -- this is not a cure, it's a treatment; and you are absolutely correct that no one treatment works for everyone.
The problem is that Tamra DID, on many occasions, in other threads, make the statement that going g/f and/or following Dr K's protocol could/would CURE Hashimoto's. It will not; I happen to have bought Dr K's book, just to see if it's all it's cracked up to be -- trust me, it's not. Even Dr K was smart enough to put in a disclaimer that states that his protocol is not a cure.
The second problem is that, rather than come out and say she didn't have the data we were asking for or even trying to discuss the issue with us, she, first had the audacity to accuse us of persecuting her - if all else fails, lay on the guilt trip?; and when that didn't work, she flat out attacked me; erroneously, I might add. Up to this point, we have seen neither discussion on her part; nor an apology.
It has been stated many times during this thread, that we are all very happy that Tamra has had the success she has. I think it's wonderful, absolutely. Same goes for anyone who has been successful with going g/f.
It's been mentioned that this protocol is taught to chiropractors mostly, who normally do not treat thyroid issues. I would venture to say that the majority of them don't know as much as some on this forum know about thyroid, yet they are treating people with a very serious disease. Wouldn't it make sense to think if the protocol were so great and there was proof that it really works, mainstream medicine would be embracing it?
There are any number of things that can be done to help make our thyroid symptoms less "severe"; not any of these things fit EVERYONE, ALL the time; we have to look at the poster's situation and answer accordingly, i.e. if someone complains of joint/muscle aches, I might suggest that they try magnesium; however, if they complain of headaches and fatigue, I would suggest something else. My point is that not EVERY question requires the same answer; and not every situation has the same solution. Yet, for some time, almost everyone of Tamra's posts insisted that going g/f would cure Hashimoto's.
There never was intention to "kill participation" and there never was an intention for anyone to get hostile. I might suggest that anyone who is in doubt about how things got this far, you go back and read the entire thread again. Admittedly, it is getting very long and hard to keep up with.
On a final note: yallolorry, you won't get negative feedback from me. You are entitled to you opinion and it's valued. You are right; a more gentle tone might have worked wonders at one point.
The problem is that Tamra DID, on many occasions, in other threads, make the statement that going g/f and/or following Dr K's protocol could/would CURE Hashimoto's. It will not; I happen to have bought Dr K's book, just to see if it's all it's cracked up to be -- trust me, it's not. Even Dr K was smart enough to put in a disclaimer that states that his protocol is not a cure.
The second problem is that, rather than come out and say she didn't have the data we were asking for or even trying to discuss the issue with us, she, first had the audacity to accuse us of persecuting her - if all else fails, lay on the guilt trip?; and when that didn't work, she flat out attacked me; erroneously, I might add. Up to this point, we have seen neither discussion on her part; nor an apology.
It has been stated many times during this thread, that we are all very happy that Tamra has had the success she has. I think it's wonderful, absolutely. Same goes for anyone who has been successful with going g/f.
It's been mentioned that this protocol is taught to chiropractors mostly, who normally do not treat thyroid issues. I would venture to say that the majority of them don't know as much as some on this forum know about thyroid, yet they are treating people with a very serious disease. Wouldn't it make sense to think if the protocol were so great and there was proof that it really works, mainstream medicine would be embracing it?
There are any number of things that can be done to help make our thyroid symptoms less "severe"; not any of these things fit EVERYONE, ALL the time; we have to look at the poster's situation and answer accordingly, i.e. if someone complains of joint/muscle aches, I might suggest that they try magnesium; however, if they complain of headaches and fatigue, I would suggest something else. My point is that not EVERY question requires the same answer; and not every situation has the same solution. Yet, for some time, almost everyone of Tamra's posts insisted that going g/f would cure Hashimoto's.
There never was intention to "kill participation" and there never was an intention for anyone to get hostile. I might suggest that anyone who is in doubt about how things got this far, you go back and read the entire thread again. Admittedly, it is getting very long and hard to keep up with.
On a final note: yallolorry, you won't get negative feedback from me. You are entitled to you opinion and it's valued. You are right; a more gentle tone might have worked wonders at one point.
"Tamra: is testifying what has happened in her own personal experience "without scientific data to back it up" so that she would be misleading to make a blanket statement that this would work for everyone" (i didn't see her doing this but maybe i missed something somewhere) this is a very long thread.. but honestly it doesn't matter if she did or not ..."
It does matter; this is the point of this whole discussion...you have missed something. We are not reacting only to what is contained in this particular thread (and, yes, it has gotten very long). The crux of K's book is that gluten causes Hashi's and a g/f diet is a MUST for everyone with Hashi's. Although, of late, Tamra is careful to include "this is not for everyone" in her statements, this has not always been the case. The book and the g/f message have been touted day after day for months to just about anyone and everyone...newer members are starting to talk about a g/f diet "curing" Hashi's like it's an accepted fact. Yes, everyone is welcome to share their experiences. But, this has gone way beyond sharing, as I pointed out early on in this thread.
Even the title of this thread, "More research connecting gluten to thryoid disease", is misleading..."more" indicates that we have already seen some, and this is just adding to it (we've seen none so far)..."research" indicates that the article referred to is more than an editorial piece (if you read the original text of the study cited in the article, you will see that some of MS's opinions are NOT part of that study). And, more importantly, as an original post, this thread is addressed to "everyone". Personal experience has its place...it can even be an original post...once. It's just been way overused.
It does matter; this is the point of this whole discussion...you have missed something. We are not reacting only to what is contained in this particular thread (and, yes, it has gotten very long). The crux of K's book is that gluten causes Hashi's and a g/f diet is a MUST for everyone with Hashi's. Although, of late, Tamra is careful to include "this is not for everyone" in her statements, this has not always been the case. The book and the g/f message have been touted day after day for months to just about anyone and everyone...newer members are starting to talk about a g/f diet "curing" Hashi's like it's an accepted fact. Yes, everyone is welcome to share their experiences. But, this has gone way beyond sharing, as I pointed out early on in this thread.
Even the title of this thread, "More research connecting gluten to thryoid disease", is misleading..."more" indicates that we have already seen some, and this is just adding to it (we've seen none so far)..."research" indicates that the article referred to is more than an editorial piece (if you read the original text of the study cited in the article, you will see that some of MS's opinions are NOT part of that study). And, more importantly, as an original post, this thread is addressed to "everyone". Personal experience has its place...it can even be an original post...once. It's just been way overused.
this is a really interesting thread. I've been mostly just reading and not joining in but would just like to say I think dpleiman's post above is highly salient and well made.
thanks all for the knowledge and passion shared. I find all of it incredibly useful and am in no hurry for the discussion to end as I feel I'm learning a lot.
if everyone could calm down a bit going forward though that would be even better. It's the discussion that's valuable, It sounds to me like everyone actually really respects each other and it's a shame a bit of emotion has crept in because of everyone's passion about the issues involved.
Perhaps that emotion has come up in response to a few comments made in places that might look a bit careless on re-reading and seem to have escalated a bit as the discussion has developed, we are all grown ups and could perhaps rise above the personal stuff now, to focus on debating the issues.
there, I've done it, I've dipped my toe in this scary but very compelling thread, and it was a scary thing to do as I don't want to be the but of anyone's ire for saying my piece and there really have been some harsh sounding words on here from several posters, probably not intended to kill participation but worth noting that they could have had that effect on some people and I find it difficult to imagine anyone would want that so perhaps something for the next person to post to bear in mind....
a more gentle tone all round might serve us going forward.....
oh god, now I'm terrified what feedback I'm going to get, but I've said what I wanted to say.
love and light to all
thanks all for the knowledge and passion shared. I find all of it incredibly useful and am in no hurry for the discussion to end as I feel I'm learning a lot.
if everyone could calm down a bit going forward though that would be even better. It's the discussion that's valuable, It sounds to me like everyone actually really respects each other and it's a shame a bit of emotion has crept in because of everyone's passion about the issues involved.
Perhaps that emotion has come up in response to a few comments made in places that might look a bit careless on re-reading and seem to have escalated a bit as the discussion has developed, we are all grown ups and could perhaps rise above the personal stuff now, to focus on debating the issues.
there, I've done it, I've dipped my toe in this scary but very compelling thread, and it was a scary thing to do as I don't want to be the but of anyone's ire for saying my piece and there really have been some harsh sounding words on here from several posters, probably not intended to kill participation but worth noting that they could have had that effect on some people and I find it difficult to imagine anyone would want that so perhaps something for the next person to post to bear in mind....
a more gentle tone all round might serve us going forward.....
oh god, now I'm terrified what feedback I'm going to get, but I've said what I wanted to say.
love and light to all
It seems to me that everyone has made their point on this subject. The main idea i get from it is this:
Tamra: is testifying what has happened in her own personal experience "without scientific data to back it up" so that she would be misleading to make a blanket statement that this would work for everyone" (i didn't see her doing this but maybe i missed something somewhere) this is a very long thread.. but honestly it doesn't matter if she did or not which brings me to my next point..
Others: is stateing to not make a general statement that this particular thing will help "everyone" because there is no credible scientific evidence to back it up and unsuspecting "innocent" new thyroid sufferers may find false hope and self treat based on someone elses testimony..
2 points here:
1. Anybody who logs onto this website or any other website for that matter are subject to someone elses testomonies "in my opinion that's what this website is all about" we are at our wits ends with "Dr's and their "scientific evidence" limitations on treatment for our disease because to us it's substandard. I take no responsiblity for someone who blindly follows what has worked for me.. I would only be stateing my testimony and that it may or may not work for them "this is the only comments i've seen from Tamra"
2. I have the same frustrations from the same people who are frustrated with Tamra in highlighting the "scientific evidence" aspect of it.. the treatment based on FT3 "which there is another thread about it that i posted" Just about everyone on this board is promoting treatment based on FT3 but yet the "scientific evidence" is so controversial that i don't think anyone knows, or can make a blanket statement about it but they do, and when i come to this board for advise and concerns i get bombarded with "what is your FT3" this is CRUCIAL in treatment and we can't help you without it, but yet the same "credible" scientific data that exists treatment based on FT3 is the same scientific data that exists for Gluten free diet but the same people complaining about credible scientific data are the same people promoting treatment based on FT3 with no credible scientific data or at the very least the same.. (this in my opinion is the same thing)
the take away from this in my opinion is that there is no one size fits all.. We all know this, wether we agree on anything else we all at the very least agree on this.. i believe this topic has been beaten to death and that any unsuspecting new thyroid sufferer gets the point and everyone is responsible for themselves whether they read the latest hype or quick fix or anything else we find on the internet.. We are all ultimately responsible for ourselves and the things we read, or advice we follow..
I don't think Tamra was wrong in her posting information she has found to go along with her testimony, we can say the same thing about treatment by FT3 levels but yet a lot of people here advocate it and are of no help if you don't have it....
Tamra: is testifying what has happened in her own personal experience "without scientific data to back it up" so that she would be misleading to make a blanket statement that this would work for everyone" (i didn't see her doing this but maybe i missed something somewhere) this is a very long thread.. but honestly it doesn't matter if she did or not which brings me to my next point..
Others: is stateing to not make a general statement that this particular thing will help "everyone" because there is no credible scientific evidence to back it up and unsuspecting "innocent" new thyroid sufferers may find false hope and self treat based on someone elses testimony..
2 points here:
1. Anybody who logs onto this website or any other website for that matter are subject to someone elses testomonies "in my opinion that's what this website is all about" we are at our wits ends with "Dr's and their "scientific evidence" limitations on treatment for our disease because to us it's substandard. I take no responsiblity for someone who blindly follows what has worked for me.. I would only be stateing my testimony and that it may or may not work for them "this is the only comments i've seen from Tamra"
2. I have the same frustrations from the same people who are frustrated with Tamra in highlighting the "scientific evidence" aspect of it.. the treatment based on FT3 "which there is another thread about it that i posted" Just about everyone on this board is promoting treatment based on FT3 but yet the "scientific evidence" is so controversial that i don't think anyone knows, or can make a blanket statement about it but they do, and when i come to this board for advise and concerns i get bombarded with "what is your FT3" this is CRUCIAL in treatment and we can't help you without it, but yet the same "credible" scientific data that exists treatment based on FT3 is the same scientific data that exists for Gluten free diet but the same people complaining about credible scientific data are the same people promoting treatment based on FT3 with no credible scientific data or at the very least the same.. (this in my opinion is the same thing)
the take away from this in my opinion is that there is no one size fits all.. We all know this, wether we agree on anything else we all at the very least agree on this.. i believe this topic has been beaten to death and that any unsuspecting new thyroid sufferer gets the point and everyone is responsible for themselves whether they read the latest hype or quick fix or anything else we find on the internet.. We are all ultimately responsible for ourselves and the things we read, or advice we follow..
I don't think Tamra was wrong in her posting information she has found to go along with her testimony, we can say the same thing about treatment by FT3 levels but yet a lot of people here advocate it and are of no help if you don't have it....
Just got back online after moving all the furniture last night to my new home to find this post STILL going.
I say things as I see it and it was ME Tamra who was slammed by your so-called Doctor because I did NOT agree with you or a so-called Quack promoting his website here.
It was NOT Barb.
I also do NOT agree that G/F is for EVERYONE and coming from a Doctor who is a Chiropractor who cannot substantiate his claims...and to me seems to be on another band-wagon to gain those lovely American Dollars to gullible, unwell people with his book that is full of absolute garbage ........he is doing what a lot of commercialised Doctors do.
Just as the one who is no longer registered because he did not comply with Medical Standards.
You accuse everyone of attacking you but what members are saying here is......you may well believe that G/F is good for you then GREAT.
But like religion ...do not ram it down peoples throats or get high and mighty and attacking because not everyone agrees with you.
Yes this posting is directed at you Tamra because maybe it is about time someone said it like it is ...instead of beating round the bush!
You are G/F...GREAT!
But dont expect me or everyone else to believe claims that cannot be substansiated with FACTS.
If a Doctor told a patient that their Cancer would go if they ate certain foods...would YOU believe it?
Get your facts, provide them here and then MAYBE members could believe in something CONCRETE.
If I have upset you (which I think I have this time) then I sincerely apologise but up until now..NO-ONE has attacked you.
You are the one who is attacking ...all because CONCRETE FACTS have been asked for.
Facts that cannot be substansiated or proven.
This Doctor Datis Karrazzian is nothing but another 'quack' in my eyes and if that upsets you then I am sorry but I refuse to be badgered and attacked for NOT believeing in this Doctor.
And that is MY opinion.
No-one elses but MINE.
We all want facts from this Doctors studies, tests, etc and none have been forthcoming.
If his practise is doing you good and you are well...then as I said earlier ..GREAT .
But dont expect people to believe in everything that is posted if no back up is there.
And do not attack members for something I posted.
I think you owe Barb an apology.
If I have upset other members by this posting, I sincerely apologise but I refuse to be badgered to believe in something that I clearly DO NOT believe in.
As I said in an earlier posting...I agree to disagree and that is my right.
This posting will probably be deleted but like you Tamra , I strongly believe it needed to be said.
I say things as I see it and it was ME Tamra who was slammed by your so-called Doctor because I did NOT agree with you or a so-called Quack promoting his website here.
It was NOT Barb.
I also do NOT agree that G/F is for EVERYONE and coming from a Doctor who is a Chiropractor who cannot substantiate his claims...and to me seems to be on another band-wagon to gain those lovely American Dollars to gullible, unwell people with his book that is full of absolute garbage ........he is doing what a lot of commercialised Doctors do.
Just as the one who is no longer registered because he did not comply with Medical Standards.
You accuse everyone of attacking you but what members are saying here is......you may well believe that G/F is good for you then GREAT.
But like religion ...do not ram it down peoples throats or get high and mighty and attacking because not everyone agrees with you.
Yes this posting is directed at you Tamra because maybe it is about time someone said it like it is ...instead of beating round the bush!
You are G/F...GREAT!
But dont expect me or everyone else to believe claims that cannot be substansiated with FACTS.
If a Doctor told a patient that their Cancer would go if they ate certain foods...would YOU believe it?
Get your facts, provide them here and then MAYBE members could believe in something CONCRETE.
If I have upset you (which I think I have this time) then I sincerely apologise but up until now..NO-ONE has attacked you.
You are the one who is attacking ...all because CONCRETE FACTS have been asked for.
Facts that cannot be substansiated or proven.
This Doctor Datis Karrazzian is nothing but another 'quack' in my eyes and if that upsets you then I am sorry but I refuse to be badgered and attacked for NOT believeing in this Doctor.
And that is MY opinion.
No-one elses but MINE.
We all want facts from this Doctors studies, tests, etc and none have been forthcoming.
If his practise is doing you good and you are well...then as I said earlier ..GREAT .
But dont expect people to believe in everything that is posted if no back up is there.
And do not attack members for something I posted.
I think you owe Barb an apology.
If I have upset other members by this posting, I sincerely apologise but I refuse to be badgered to believe in something that I clearly DO NOT believe in.
As I said in an earlier posting...I agree to disagree and that is my right.
This posting will probably be deleted but like you Tamra , I strongly believe it needed to be said.
No one is “slamming” you for your gluten-free success. Actually, this is NOT the way I see it (quoting Tamra’s last post):
“The way you see it is that I am pointing newer members toward a drastic lifestyle change for no reason. So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy?”
The way I see it is that you have repeatedly implied that 1) there is a cause/effect relationship between Hashi’s and gluten, and 2) that a g/f diet can “treat” thyroid auto-antibodies. Furtherrmore, because you have repeated both of these so often, newer members are beginning to take them for granted and to discuss them as though they were accepted scientific fact and medical practice. (See my quote above from a related thread.)
I am asking you either to provide proof of 1 and 2 above or to agree to stop posting these ideas so ubiquitously.
Since we’re being blunt, here’s what I’d like to see:
1) studies proving that gluten is the cause of Hashi’s,
2) studies proving that, once you have Hashi’s, a g/f diet will send thyroid antibodies into remission,
3) studies proving that K’s methods actually TREAT autoimmune THYROID disease,
4) your response to members’ questions regarding the holes we’ve found in K’s theory.
It seems to me that we are not asking you for much. To the extent that you have been touting the gluten/thyroid antibody link, 1 through 3 ought to be at your fingertips. #4 might require a bit more dialogue. This is not Facebook, Twitter, or a personal blog…our standards of proof must be higher. My feeling is that your comments would be much more appropriate on a celiac/gluten intolerance or nutrition forum than they are on a thyroid forum, since no CAUSAL or CURATIVE relationship has been established between gluten and autoimmune thyroid disease.
Playing the “persecution” card, citing op/ed pieces like the Mary Shomon article referenced at the beginning of this thread and soliciting further testimonials like Stacy’s is simply a diversionary tactic to avoid the task at hand. You are dismissing our concerns and accusing us of bullying to avoid answering our questions.
Alternative to 1 to 4 above, and so that we can all get back to the business at hand of informing each other of FACTS regarding THYROID disorders, you might consider agreeing to a moratorium on the widespread recommendation of g/f diets for THYROID patients and the recommendation of THE book (including the “read my journal” references to both of these). Unfortunately, we have all been trying to be “nice” and have given you a free rein with your theories. I believe the quality of the forum is now being compromised by the extent to which g/f has been recommended for thyroid patients with no science to back it up.
I think a g/.f diet can still be suggested on a very individual basis and with the many caveats we have all mentioned in the many posts above. However, I also think it’s time to give it a rest considering it’s recent overexposure so that this forum stops looking more like a celiac forum than a thyroid forum. This needs to be brought back to an appropriate perspective.
“The way you see it is that I am pointing newer members toward a drastic lifestyle change for no reason. So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy?”
The way I see it is that you have repeatedly implied that 1) there is a cause/effect relationship between Hashi’s and gluten, and 2) that a g/f diet can “treat” thyroid auto-antibodies. Furtherrmore, because you have repeated both of these so often, newer members are beginning to take them for granted and to discuss them as though they were accepted scientific fact and medical practice. (See my quote above from a related thread.)
I am asking you either to provide proof of 1 and 2 above or to agree to stop posting these ideas so ubiquitously.
Since we’re being blunt, here’s what I’d like to see:
1) studies proving that gluten is the cause of Hashi’s,
2) studies proving that, once you have Hashi’s, a g/f diet will send thyroid antibodies into remission,
3) studies proving that K’s methods actually TREAT autoimmune THYROID disease,
4) your response to members’ questions regarding the holes we’ve found in K’s theory.
It seems to me that we are not asking you for much. To the extent that you have been touting the gluten/thyroid antibody link, 1 through 3 ought to be at your fingertips. #4 might require a bit more dialogue. This is not Facebook, Twitter, or a personal blog…our standards of proof must be higher. My feeling is that your comments would be much more appropriate on a celiac/gluten intolerance or nutrition forum than they are on a thyroid forum, since no CAUSAL or CURATIVE relationship has been established between gluten and autoimmune thyroid disease.
Playing the “persecution” card, citing op/ed pieces like the Mary Shomon article referenced at the beginning of this thread and soliciting further testimonials like Stacy’s is simply a diversionary tactic to avoid the task at hand. You are dismissing our concerns and accusing us of bullying to avoid answering our questions.
Alternative to 1 to 4 above, and so that we can all get back to the business at hand of informing each other of FACTS regarding THYROID disorders, you might consider agreeing to a moratorium on the widespread recommendation of g/f diets for THYROID patients and the recommendation of THE book (including the “read my journal” references to both of these). Unfortunately, we have all been trying to be “nice” and have given you a free rein with your theories. I believe the quality of the forum is now being compromised by the extent to which g/f has been recommended for thyroid patients with no science to back it up.
I think a g/.f diet can still be suggested on a very individual basis and with the many caveats we have all mentioned in the many posts above. However, I also think it’s time to give it a rest considering it’s recent overexposure so that this forum stops looking more like a celiac forum than a thyroid forum. This needs to be brought back to an appropriate perspective.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Sorry I was hard at work a few hours ago -- I do hope you had a wonderful time with your little one, swimming and soaking up the vitamin D; unfortunately, some of us don't have the luxury of spending the day swimming OR soaking up the vitamin D no matter how much time we spend in the sun.......
I'd venture to say that my 10 hr work day kept me in the sun much longer than the time you spent swimming and having fun -- unfortunately, spending time in the sun, doesn't help me much and I still have to supplement.
That said, I'll thank you to get your facts straight......... *I* was not the one who made the comment you attributed to me - "Not inviting "so called Doctors" here on the site to abuse members that do not agree with that form of treatment.
Because that is what I got by not agreeing to a certain posting a while back." I remember that incident well; I wasn't the one attacked at that time; if I had been I would have said the same thing.
The hostility seems to be coming more from you, than any of the rest of us; we had a discussion that you chose to stay out of for nearly 10 days, then all of a sudden you come back in and attack me.......
You are attributing hostility to me, that I didn't portray in the beginning; however, you are doing a good job of bringing it out. No, I didn't go g/f and most likely I won't ever because my doctor told me not to.......
You said: "And, no, I do not eliminate grains. For Barb to assume that is grossly misleading to the rest of the members on this forum. I still eat non-glutenous grains. I believe that Hashimoto's is an auto-immune disease that requires more management than than just popping pills. If it were so easy!"
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have made no "assumptions" in regards to your diet --- I don't really know what your diet is, except that you have made it perfectly clear that you don't eat gluten and your "doctor" says that anyone with Hashi's should not eat it. Sorry, my doctor says I should not eliminate it -- I'll trust my doctor over yours any day.......
You are absolutely right that Hashi's is autoimmune; no one is arguing that point, nor are we saying that "popping pills" is the only way to go...... there are things that we can do to help ease our symptoms; the point here is that it's not a "one size fits all"...........telling people that if they go g/f, they can reduce or get off thyroid med is so very misleading....
In addition to that, I highly resent your implication that I don't "bypass the funnel cake stand and enjoy good health".
Do you have the audacity to think that just because I don't give up gluten, I spend my time at the funnel cake stand? Truth to tell, I haven't even had the time to SEE a funnel cake stand in a good many years, let alone indulge............ besides - *I* don't eat sugar.........
Yes, we do have an obligation to new members --- ALL of us, whether or not, we are "five star generals" need to be careful and when someone touts the same message day in and day out, people who are not necessarily informed, tend to think that message is right.........when it's not.
I think it's been shown that g/f is NOT right for everyone. We all have to read the posts and respond according to what the individual is asking or needs -- not everyone needs to hear about g/f, reading your journal, or taking certain vitamins/minerals, etc...........
You said: "So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy? I've reached my breaking point with this disease. I refuse to throw up my hands and let the pharmacies take care of me."
No one has ever disputed a "need a reason to eat and live healthy" ...... we all should eat and live healthy. Our point has been that "healthy" for YOU, may not be "healthy" for ME; therefore, when you post that ALL Hashi's MUST go g/f -- our antennae go up immediately.
The message for newbies should be that we are all different and that some things work for some people, but not for everyone...........anyone who makes an "across the board" statement, such as "ALL Hashi's must avoid gluten" should be discounted..... it all needs to be presented on an individual basis, as in "this worked for me, but doesn't work for everyone"...........how simple can it get??
No persecution intended.............
I'd venture to say that my 10 hr work day kept me in the sun much longer than the time you spent swimming and having fun -- unfortunately, spending time in the sun, doesn't help me much and I still have to supplement.
That said, I'll thank you to get your facts straight......... *I* was not the one who made the comment you attributed to me - "Not inviting "so called Doctors" here on the site to abuse members that do not agree with that form of treatment.
Because that is what I got by not agreeing to a certain posting a while back." I remember that incident well; I wasn't the one attacked at that time; if I had been I would have said the same thing.
The hostility seems to be coming more from you, than any of the rest of us; we had a discussion that you chose to stay out of for nearly 10 days, then all of a sudden you come back in and attack me.......
You are attributing hostility to me, that I didn't portray in the beginning; however, you are doing a good job of bringing it out. No, I didn't go g/f and most likely I won't ever because my doctor told me not to.......
You said: "And, no, I do not eliminate grains. For Barb to assume that is grossly misleading to the rest of the members on this forum. I still eat non-glutenous grains. I believe that Hashimoto's is an auto-immune disease that requires more management than than just popping pills. If it were so easy!"
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have made no "assumptions" in regards to your diet --- I don't really know what your diet is, except that you have made it perfectly clear that you don't eat gluten and your "doctor" says that anyone with Hashi's should not eat it. Sorry, my doctor says I should not eliminate it -- I'll trust my doctor over yours any day.......
You are absolutely right that Hashi's is autoimmune; no one is arguing that point, nor are we saying that "popping pills" is the only way to go...... there are things that we can do to help ease our symptoms; the point here is that it's not a "one size fits all"...........telling people that if they go g/f, they can reduce or get off thyroid med is so very misleading....
In addition to that, I highly resent your implication that I don't "bypass the funnel cake stand and enjoy good health".
Do you have the audacity to think that just because I don't give up gluten, I spend my time at the funnel cake stand? Truth to tell, I haven't even had the time to SEE a funnel cake stand in a good many years, let alone indulge............ besides - *I* don't eat sugar.........
Yes, we do have an obligation to new members --- ALL of us, whether or not, we are "five star generals" need to be careful and when someone touts the same message day in and day out, people who are not necessarily informed, tend to think that message is right.........when it's not.
I think it's been shown that g/f is NOT right for everyone. We all have to read the posts and respond according to what the individual is asking or needs -- not everyone needs to hear about g/f, reading your journal, or taking certain vitamins/minerals, etc...........
You said: "So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy? I've reached my breaking point with this disease. I refuse to throw up my hands and let the pharmacies take care of me."
No one has ever disputed a "need a reason to eat and live healthy" ...... we all should eat and live healthy. Our point has been that "healthy" for YOU, may not be "healthy" for ME; therefore, when you post that ALL Hashi's MUST go g/f -- our antennae go up immediately.
The message for newbies should be that we are all different and that some things work for some people, but not for everyone...........anyone who makes an "across the board" statement, such as "ALL Hashi's must avoid gluten" should be discounted..... it all needs to be presented on an individual basis, as in "this worked for me, but doesn't work for everyone"...........how simple can it get??
No persecution intended.............
Barb's quote: "Not inviting "so called Doctors" here on the site to abuse members that do not agree with that form of treatment.
Because that is what I got by not agreeing to a certain posting a while back."
I did not invite him, and yes, he is a doctor. I asked this doctor if I could repost one of his transcripts on this forum. He agreed as long as I provided him with the link. I did not know he was going to come to this forum and post. He is not my doctor, but he does treat some of my friends, including Stacy from this forum, who has had great results.
There is a hostility on this forum by certain members when I share my gluten-free success. I am slammed for my unconventional and 'drastic' dietary plan. Not only have I seen significant health improvements in eliminating gluten, but by avoiding cow milk, soy, corn and processed/fried foods as well. My diet consists of a lot of lean meats, fresh fruits and veggies. Also, I lift weights ad do light cardio (so as not to overstress the adrenals). My approach would be considered more holistic or crazy to some. I see it as common sense.
And, no, I do not eliminate grains. For Barb to assume that is grossly misleading to the rest of the members on this forum. I still eat non-glutenous grains. I believe that Hashimoto's is an auto-immune disease that requires more management than than just popping pills. If it were so easy!
And because I decide to bypass the funnel cake stand and enjoy good health, I do feel I'm persecuted on this site. Sorry for being so blunt, but I've dished in more of my share of rude/blunt comments here.
Some of the five star generals consistently remind me of an obligation to newer forum members. The way you see it is that I am pointing newer members toward a drastic lifestyle change for no reason. So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy? I've reached my breaking point with this disease. I refuse to throw up my hands and let the pharmacies take care of me.
Well, off to spend the day swimming and soaking up vitamin D with my little one.
:) Tamra
Because that is what I got by not agreeing to a certain posting a while back."
I did not invite him, and yes, he is a doctor. I asked this doctor if I could repost one of his transcripts on this forum. He agreed as long as I provided him with the link. I did not know he was going to come to this forum and post. He is not my doctor, but he does treat some of my friends, including Stacy from this forum, who has had great results.
There is a hostility on this forum by certain members when I share my gluten-free success. I am slammed for my unconventional and 'drastic' dietary plan. Not only have I seen significant health improvements in eliminating gluten, but by avoiding cow milk, soy, corn and processed/fried foods as well. My diet consists of a lot of lean meats, fresh fruits and veggies. Also, I lift weights ad do light cardio (so as not to overstress the adrenals). My approach would be considered more holistic or crazy to some. I see it as common sense.
And, no, I do not eliminate grains. For Barb to assume that is grossly misleading to the rest of the members on this forum. I still eat non-glutenous grains. I believe that Hashimoto's is an auto-immune disease that requires more management than than just popping pills. If it were so easy!
And because I decide to bypass the funnel cake stand and enjoy good health, I do feel I'm persecuted on this site. Sorry for being so blunt, but I've dished in more of my share of rude/blunt comments here.
Some of the five star generals consistently remind me of an obligation to newer forum members. The way you see it is that I am pointing newer members toward a drastic lifestyle change for no reason. So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy? I've reached my breaking point with this disease. I refuse to throw up my hands and let the pharmacies take care of me.
Well, off to spend the day swimming and soaking up vitamin D with my little one.
:) Tamra
I learn a great deal on forums, this one included...thank you.
There have been a few assumptions stated in this thread which should be corrected. First of all, I am not advocating eliminating any healthy food, including gluten, if one doesn't need to. With that stated, a g/f diet does not have to be grain/free, nor devoid of fiber. A number of cultures use rice or corn, not wheat, as a staple. Amaranth, arrowroot, coconut flour (which is low carb with 61% fiber), millet, quinoa, and tapioca are a few others. By the way, any wheat raises my diabetic & hypothyroid husband's blood sugar, but he eats it anyway, but not often at home anymore because he keeps his a1c down (from 13+ to under 7) just with diet & exercise.
Another assumption, which may have some truth to it, but is completely contrary to standard food allergy (elimination) testing, "You do make yourself intolerant to foods when you remove them from your diet." Several of our doctors over the years have recommended the opposite...that is removing the offending food(s) for several years, then reintroducing, which has worked well in our family.
As it has been stated many times on this thread, having any autoimmune disease makes one more vulnerable to other sensitivities. Hashimoto's can be like that for some people. His thyroid crashed over 50 years ago after a serious case of mono. Mine, much more recent but complicated with Lupus and Lymes. My husband and I both can tolerate very few meds any more. However, we do not try to reintroduce any drug for which we have had a bad reaction to.
So, in spite of being being fairly universally vulnerable, we each need to find what works best for us as an individual. Peace, ggma1000
There have been a few assumptions stated in this thread which should be corrected. First of all, I am not advocating eliminating any healthy food, including gluten, if one doesn't need to. With that stated, a g/f diet does not have to be grain/free, nor devoid of fiber. A number of cultures use rice or corn, not wheat, as a staple. Amaranth, arrowroot, coconut flour (which is low carb with 61% fiber), millet, quinoa, and tapioca are a few others. By the way, any wheat raises my diabetic & hypothyroid husband's blood sugar, but he eats it anyway, but not often at home anymore because he keeps his a1c down (from 13+ to under 7) just with diet & exercise.
Another assumption, which may have some truth to it, but is completely contrary to standard food allergy (elimination) testing, "You do make yourself intolerant to foods when you remove them from your diet." Several of our doctors over the years have recommended the opposite...that is removing the offending food(s) for several years, then reintroducing, which has worked well in our family.
As it has been stated many times on this thread, having any autoimmune disease makes one more vulnerable to other sensitivities. Hashimoto's can be like that for some people. His thyroid crashed over 50 years ago after a serious case of mono. Mine, much more recent but complicated with Lupus and Lymes. My husband and I both can tolerate very few meds any more. However, we do not try to reintroduce any drug for which we have had a bad reaction to.
So, in spite of being being fairly universally vulnerable, we each need to find what works best for us as an individual. Peace, ggma1000
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Thyroid Disorders Community
We tapped the CDC for information on what you need to know about radiation exposure
Endocrinologist Mark Lupo, MD, answers 10 questions about thyroid disorders and how to treat them
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
