Aa
Vitamin K2 MK-7 & hypothyroidism/hashimoto's
Hi all, just wondering if anyone has any kind of information on this... I was told recently that I should not be taking doses of daily vitamin D3 higher than 2000IU (I take 10000IU/day) without supplementing vitamin K2 MK-7 as well, because without a correct ration of D3 to K2, inappropriate calcification (of arteries) can occur. In researching, I've learned that vitamin K2 MK-7 supplements come from natto, a Japanese fermented soy product. It's my understanding that soy isn't a friend to those of us with hypothyroidism/Hashimoto's (as always, please correct me if I'm wrong)... Does anyone have any insight on this?
I should of said vitamin K not just K2 as one of the co factors for vitamin D.
sotte, you mention taking a high dosage of vitamin B6 which is at toxic levels.
"Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) causes neuropathy at intakes of 1000 mg per day or more, which is about 800 times the daily intake from foods. There have also been occasional reports of toxicity at intakes of 100-300 mg per day. The US authorities set the no-observed-adverse-effect-level at 200 mg per day and the safe upper limit at 100 mg per day." - How much vitamin B6 is toxic? Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2005 Nov 12;149(46):2545-6.
sotte, you mention taking a high dosage of vitamin B6 which is at toxic levels.
"Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) causes neuropathy at intakes of 1000 mg per day or more, which is about 800 times the daily intake from foods. There have also been occasional reports of toxicity at intakes of 100-300 mg per day. The US authorities set the no-observed-adverse-effect-level at 200 mg per day and the safe upper limit at 100 mg per day." - How much vitamin B6 is toxic? Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2005 Nov 12;149(46):2545-6.
I would recommend you again be tested for Thryoid. Do you know in the past when you were tested for thyroid if you were being tested for hormones beyond the simple (and nearly worthless) TSH?
In order to truly get a picture on you thyroid status it is critical to be tested SPECIFICALLY for the following two tests:
1) Free T4 - This test differes from the outdated and obsolete "total" T4 test. The "free" hormone test specifically and only counts the hormone that is "free" and unattached from a protein. When the hormone becomes attached to a protein, it becomes biologically inacative (worthless). The total test counts BOTH the attached and unattached hormone. So there is no way to know for sure how much of the hormone is ACTUALLY available for you body to use.
2) Free T3. This again is the same as described above. T4 however is a "storage" hormone and remains in the blood to be "in reserve" so to speak. And the bodies cells ONLY use ultimately the Free T3 hormone. The body converts the "in reserve" Free T4 into T3.
TSH is a screening test at best and cannot effectively be used to dose and monitor medication. This test is highly variable and there are plenty of things that can significantly change and vary throughout the day. So it is completely unreliable to base medication dosing levels. UNFORTUNATELY most Dr's exclusively use this worthless test as the gold standard to do just that!
My understanding that Natto is a fermented version of soy. And that Soy in general is bad for humans, but once it is "predigested" or fermented, this changes the chemical and enzymes etc and changes a "bad food" into something that is VERY GOOD to eat. I'm not sure how the fermented soy interacts with absorbtion of thyroid hormone since it is altered chemically from its "raw" form.
If you have recent blood labs, please post them along with the reference ranges. If you have not gotten recent blood labs, then I would recommend you do just that and make critically sure they test for both "Free" hormones listed above.
I suspect your previous Dr may have been using TSH only, and that explains why you blood numbers were wild and could not be controlled with your dosage. Because you can't use TSH to adjust or fine tune thyroid dosage. So I suspect you were never given a therapudic dose to ever help you with your symptoms. But this is all mere speculation at this point. And if it was years ago, it is ancient history.
Get new testing and find or hope to find a good thyroid Dr.
In order to truly get a picture on you thyroid status it is critical to be tested SPECIFICALLY for the following two tests:
1) Free T4 - This test differes from the outdated and obsolete "total" T4 test. The "free" hormone test specifically and only counts the hormone that is "free" and unattached from a protein. When the hormone becomes attached to a protein, it becomes biologically inacative (worthless). The total test counts BOTH the attached and unattached hormone. So there is no way to know for sure how much of the hormone is ACTUALLY available for you body to use.
2) Free T3. This again is the same as described above. T4 however is a "storage" hormone and remains in the blood to be "in reserve" so to speak. And the bodies cells ONLY use ultimately the Free T3 hormone. The body converts the "in reserve" Free T4 into T3.
TSH is a screening test at best and cannot effectively be used to dose and monitor medication. This test is highly variable and there are plenty of things that can significantly change and vary throughout the day. So it is completely unreliable to base medication dosing levels. UNFORTUNATELY most Dr's exclusively use this worthless test as the gold standard to do just that!
My understanding that Natto is a fermented version of soy. And that Soy in general is bad for humans, but once it is "predigested" or fermented, this changes the chemical and enzymes etc and changes a "bad food" into something that is VERY GOOD to eat. I'm not sure how the fermented soy interacts with absorbtion of thyroid hormone since it is altered chemically from its "raw" form.
If you have recent blood labs, please post them along with the reference ranges. If you have not gotten recent blood labs, then I would recommend you do just that and make critically sure they test for both "Free" hormones listed above.
I suspect your previous Dr may have been using TSH only, and that explains why you blood numbers were wild and could not be controlled with your dosage. Because you can't use TSH to adjust or fine tune thyroid dosage. So I suspect you were never given a therapudic dose to ever help you with your symptoms. But this is all mere speculation at this point. And if it was years ago, it is ancient history.
Get new testing and find or hope to find a good thyroid Dr.
I am struggling to figure out which supplements and how much I should be taking. I have had Hypothyroidism since I was a teenager. As I got into my mid-40s though, I started to have heart fluttering issues caused by the synthroid medication I had been taking since I was 17. Although they tried many times to adjust the medication, they were unable to find a safe dosage for me because my thyroid numbers kept jumping in and out of range and they took me off of my thyroid medication altogether. That is when I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I have also developed nodules on my thyroid, but since I can't take medication, the doctors have determined that there isn't much they can do for me unless the nodules become a problem, so they just do annual ultrasounds and blood work in order to monitor the situation. I am trying to heal myself through nutrition and supplementation. The Paleo diet seems to have improved my blood work numbers somewhat, but I haven't had an ultrasound for over a year, since my husband was laid off form his job and we lost our health care, and I don't know how the nodules are doing. (He actually just start a new job 2 weeks ago and our new health care just started on Sept 1, 2015, so can make an appointment for ultrasound) Although I am knowledgeable about vitamins and supplements, it is very difficult to know if I am taking all of the right things in the proper dosages without testing. Conventional doctors don't do this kind of testing and functional physicians are very expensive because they don't take health insurance. Taking 400mg Magnesium, 5,000 IU D3, 2000mg Turmeric, 200mg Selenium, whole-food Adrenal Strength and B-complex supplements, Tyro-CNV (2/day) 1000mcg B12, 2,000 B6. Also take 100mg Ubiquinol, 500mg Evening Primrose, a very good probiotic and digestive enzyme. Drink a cup of Dandelion Tea most days and buy a bottle of Milk Thistle occasionally throughout the year, 175 mg for detox.Was taking kelp in order to get iodine into my diet, but there seems to be varying opinions about taking iodine for Hashimoto's, so I'm not sure if I should be taking it or not. (MORNING SMOOTHIE: Coconut water, handful of fresh greens, 1 Tbsp coconut oil, 1 Tbsp. Hemp Hearts, small carrot, fresh ginger, fresh Turmeric, parsley, cilantro, slice of whole lemon, 1/4 avocado, small apple, 1/2 banana, 1/2tsp. L-Glutamin powder, 2 Tbsp. Great lakes gelatin, 1 tsp. Matcha tea and 10 drops Biosil) I am now 57 and have been off of my thyroid medication for 6 years. Although, I eat properly, my weight is much higher than it should be, but then I don't exercise everyday. Exercise has always been a struggle for me, because it has never made any difference in my weight. I am able to tone up but I just never seem to lose any weight. Would love some input if you have any, thanks! :)
Vitamin D co factors are magnesium, vitamin K2, zinc, boron, vitamin A. Vitamin D supplements, particularly large doses, can cause or worsen an existing magnesium deficiency state.
I had vitamin D resistance from magnesium deficiency and I was taking high doses up to 10 000 IU to try and increase my vitamin D levels not knowing I had magnesium deficiency and in turn worsened my existing magnesium deficiency. I have a calcified mitral heart valve (that I know about) from magnesium deficiency. The upper tolerable limit for vitamin D is set at 4000 IU. If I take vitamin D I also take magnesium.
Foods high in vitamin K2 are natto, hard cheese, soft cheese, egg yolk, butter (butter from grass fed cows have higher K2), chicken liver, salami, chicken breast, ground beef. It is up to you if you want to take K2 supplements.
Soy can inhibit the body's ability to absorb thyroid medication so it's best to wait four hours after taking thyroid medication before eating soy products or supplements.
I had vitamin D resistance from magnesium deficiency and I was taking high doses up to 10 000 IU to try and increase my vitamin D levels not knowing I had magnesium deficiency and in turn worsened my existing magnesium deficiency. I have a calcified mitral heart valve (that I know about) from magnesium deficiency. The upper tolerable limit for vitamin D is set at 4000 IU. If I take vitamin D I also take magnesium.
Foods high in vitamin K2 are natto, hard cheese, soft cheese, egg yolk, butter (butter from grass fed cows have higher K2), chicken liver, salami, chicken breast, ground beef. It is up to you if you want to take K2 supplements.
Soy can inhibit the body's ability to absorb thyroid medication so it's best to wait four hours after taking thyroid medication before eating soy products or supplements.
COMMUNITY LEADER
What are your actual Vitamin D levels? Most of us probably don't need 10000 IU of vitamin D/day unless we are severely deficient or for some reason, have an absorption issue. Vitamin D is toxic if levels get too high.
Vitamin K comes in 2 forms - Vitamin K 1, which comes from leafy green vegetables. Vitamin K 2 comes from animal sources, such as organ meats, egg yolks, dairy products.
The Food and Nutrition Board says an adult only needs 90 mcg of vitamin K/day. One cup of kale contains over 1000 mcg, one cup of spinach contains over 800 mcg and a cup of turnip greens contains over 500 mcg. That's all K1.
Vitamin K1 is "converted" to K2 within the body - in the intestines and in peripheral tissue from those green leafy vegetables, so if you eat adequate amounts of those, you're getting plenty of K2, without having to eat soy or take supplements containing it.
Vitamins D and K2, along with magnesium are necessary for the proper absorption of calcium, all of which work together to keep bones strong and healthy.
Vitamin K comes in 2 forms - Vitamin K 1, which comes from leafy green vegetables. Vitamin K 2 comes from animal sources, such as organ meats, egg yolks, dairy products.
The Food and Nutrition Board says an adult only needs 90 mcg of vitamin K/day. One cup of kale contains over 1000 mcg, one cup of spinach contains over 800 mcg and a cup of turnip greens contains over 500 mcg. That's all K1.
Vitamin K1 is "converted" to K2 within the body - in the intestines and in peripheral tissue from those green leafy vegetables, so if you eat adequate amounts of those, you're getting plenty of K2, without having to eat soy or take supplements containing it.
Vitamins D and K2, along with magnesium are necessary for the proper absorption of calcium, all of which work together to keep bones strong and healthy.
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Thyroid Disorders Community
We tapped the CDC for information on what you need to know about radiation exposure
Endocrinologist Mark Lupo, MD, answers 10 questions about thyroid disorders and how to treat them
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
