I too am using Short Acting opiates to jump off 1.5 mg Suboxone!

[liliansdream]

Hi,  I recently dropped from 2 mgs to 1.5 mgs.  I had not noticed much during my other drops, but this one was painful.  I was surprised to feel w/d symptoms at this drop.  I have learned from all my reading how it is dropping under 2 mg where the party starts.  A very long slow taper.  I didn't feel up to it .. going through worse w/d at each drop.. and even though 2 mg sounds like a low dose, there are many many more drops before it is advised to jump.  Each drop in dose causes worsening w/d symptoms, and takes longer to stabilize.  I didn't feel up to it.. I got very frightened, and freaked out at the thought of it... I know I don't sound encouraging of a Sub taper, but that is just for me... we are all different and what works for one may not for another.

I printed off a lot of material, "a great article by a Doctor  who really knows his stuff when it comes to w/d off Suboxone..  He is very adamant that Suboxone should not be used longer than 6 weeks and really advised no more than 4 weeks.   The w/d is very very difficult.  I gave a copy to my Sub Dr.

i had read on here about someone who got off the Suboxone with short acting opiates.   I had thought about doing that before I even read it.  I went to my Sub doctor yesterday and asked if she would prescribe this and she agreed.  She said she doesn't do this for everyone, but she trusted me, This method has worked for other of  her patients.   She knew how much I wanted off, and she knows that I don't know any addicts and I don't know where to buy pills on the streets so my risk is way down to continue taking these drugs.  I want off all pills.. well all opiate pills..  I hate them.. I had lost 10 years to an addiciton to MScontin, 300 mgs daily for 10 years.  I did not think I could get off, and I was afraid to get off as I didn't know what would be left of me as I had felt I had totally lost myself to the morphine.  I did get off it, and I had used Suboxone  for a year, and jumped at 8 mgs.  It was a crazy story of how I got off, but I did and I was clean 5 yrs..  I relapsed 2 1/2 years ago for a year, of taking pills orally, then Sub for a year and half .  My GP knows i am an opiate addict and is very careful when it comes to prescribing.  Only for surgeries will she prescribe.  My Sub Dr. knows I couldn't get any after the detox.  I am using 5 mg Hydrocodone for 10 days and then switching to Tylenol #3 for the next 10 days.  Tapering with both.  I am taking up to 10 5 mg pills the first 2 days, then 10 pills for 2 days, then 9, 8, 7, 6, 5...that is 10 days then Tylenol 3..  It has 30 mgs of codeine.  I don't know how much I will need, but it is easier and better to use low dose plain codeine for the last 10 days.  easier on the body to stop taking.  Today was day 2.  I only used 2 oxycodone pills yesterday "bedtime", and today 6 so far.. I will have 2 more at bed time to get a good sleep.  I should not need more until morning.  I was able to go swimming laps this morning and did some water aerobics... followed by the hot tub and steam room.  I am hoping to go daily Exercise is so important when w/ding.

I do have confidence in this.    From reading other posts I know a lot of folks are very leary of this technique.  I get it.. If I knew anyone who sold pills, or if it was easy to get them I would be somewhat worried.. I don't, so I know once the 20 days is over it's over.  Most of the severe Sub w/d symptoms should be done by day 10...there will be lingering ones for a while..  

I'll update as I can.....

Liliansdream

[Zorrbabe]

I think that's a good technique I mean they use fentanyl to push off your receptors and that sounds like a really good idea as long as you're in contact with your doctor I think that's a wonderful method. Let us know how you're doing

[mombojombo]

I wanted to say hello and see how you are doing!!!  How's it going?  How is the fatigue?  How is your resolve?  I'm thinking of you.

[Zorrbabe]

That sounds like a good medically advised plan.

[liliansdream]

Thank you Zorrbabe.  It means a lot to me hearing someone else can see the benefit to this way.   If you have read through this thread, you will see no else  seems to see's how this is what some people NEED, and a percentage of addicts can do this.  Even if it is is 1 out of 10 or 20 people who can do this, that could be saving thousands of lives.  I talked with my pharmacist yesterday and he was going on that that so many addicts would be dead without Sub or Methadone.. True, I agree.   The problem is they end it there..  They are very reluctant to discuss, what then?  Keep those people addicted for life?.  I agree there are some people who may need it for life, but there are so many people like me, who want desperately off  it but for whatever reason cannot tolerate the long painful withdrawal.    

Day 17 off the Suboxone, Day 5 off the Percecet , and I feel good, and I'm not really needing the Tylenol 3.   I am very surprised by this, but also very thrilled.   I feel free, and I feel okay.  When I got up it had been 8 hrs or more since my last dose, and I feel normal.  I even vaccumed...lol.. I didn't feel I needed anything.  Definetly no w/d symptoms.   I took 1 Tylenol 3 30 mins ago, just because my pharmacist suggested I not just stop yet.  He wanted me to give it another week.  I definetly don't think I need a week IMHO but I will give it a few more days...  I'm prescribed till Monday, and I see my Dr. Tues..  I will be thrilled to tell her it worked...   for me this is a dream come true.  

I do believe doing Cardio everyday helped.  Even just forcing myself out..  Gabapentin was a life saver for the restless legs...  CBD/THC oil also made a huge difference.  It allowed me to sleep, and without sleep w.d's can be worse.. Also having that women so kindly offer to do that Theraputic touch, seemed to be a turning point.  She said it would last 72 hrs..  If I suddenly start to feel horrible, I will call her.. I just can't see that happening though.  

Good Luck to all fighting this disease.

[liliansdream]

Day 18a off Suboxone...  I'm down to 3 Tylenol 3/day .. I'm feeling like I don't really need it and I'm not craving anything, but I will continue to decrease until Tues.. I see my Dr. then and I will be very happy to tell her I did it....  I am so relieved to be off the Suboxone, and it doesn't seem like I have any lingering w/d symptoms...   I'll still keep life very small and simple for the next few weeks...

Good Luck to all and a mighty thank you to all who posted their support.

Liliansdream

[mombojombo]

That's going to be great. Do you have a plan if they ask where the additional pills came from?  Just be prepared and have your ducks in a row.  But it sounds like this is going smoothly and you are almost free.  Then it is a matter of what you can do for after care.  We are here to talk and support you but we all know it gets hard.  So, you will want to be prepared for that too!  big hugs and you are definitely the boss.

[liliansdream]

Mombo, I don't understand what you mean re your question "Do you have a plan if they ask where the additional pills came from?".    Really confused about that.

I haven't needed any Tylenol 3 today...  I was feeling a little blah, not really depressed but just a little off.   I did go have my swim this morning, but my legs ached a bit today so I didn't go walking.   It is very sunny out after a big snowfall this weekend...so very pretty, but cold.  I may go for a walk this afternoon.  

Good luck everyone

Liliansdream

[liliansdream]

I Did it.  I'm off all opiates, and I must say this was much smoother than I anticipated.  The only real w/d that I went through was the afternoon and night after I stopped the 5mg Oxycodone.  It was about 12 hrs of feeling pretty sick with Restless Legs, unable to get comfortable etc.. Gabapentin took care of the restless legs, and CBD oil with some THC, helped me to sleep through a good part of this.   I also used lots of Magnesium & Chlorella which is loaded with good stuff to support Immune Function and feed cells, and Vitamin C. and D with K, and Omega 3 oil to help with Brain Function.  I also made myself go out early each morning.  Some days I felt very low and I had to force myself to dress, make it to the car, make the 40 min drive to the Y, go from the parking lot to inside the change room.. and then see if I could make it to the pool..  I had to break it all down into small steps.. By the time I was in the pool and under the water, it seemed like the bad I was feeling disappeared and I could swim.  I tried to get 20 min at least of cardio. It helped so much on two levels.  Physically it helped boost my own brain to produce it's own endorphins, and mentally to think of something else.  Just getting out I believe is very important.. it helps not to think about how crumby you feel.  I could not have down this if I just jumped from 1.5 - 2 mgs of Suboxone, but using the Oxcodone " for 12 days being extremely careful, and decreasing that daily" I was able to function.  Dropping to the codeine was the only time I felt significant w/d symptoms, but as I said it only lasted 12 hrs, then I was okay on the Codeine.  I tapered that quickly, and only needed it for one week.  I was allowed 10 - 30 mg / day, but I only took that the first 2 days, and then was able to taper that very quickly..  I only needed it for 6 days.  

Day 20 off Suboxone, Day 8 off the Oxycodone, and day 2 off the Codeine.   My second day free operating on my own 2 feet.  Yesterday I felt blah.. I had some energy after swimming, but overall I kind of felt empty..  That is okay as I am prepared for some days to be like that, but I know I will start to have very good days too.   I am so happy to say the detox part of this is over, and now all the emotional trauma of going through this will be dealt with.   I forgive myself... I love myself, I do good for myself and I am not ashamed.  my new mantras ...

I hope doing it this way can help others who want off the Suboxone but for whatever reason cannot tolerate a long painful Suboxone w/d.  This Works!

Good Luck to all

Liliansdream

[mombojombo]

Yay you!!  This is so awesome and I'm sure you are so proud and happy.  It's so hard to do what you did and you did it!!!  

I am sorry, I forgot that your sub doctor actually prescribed the pills!  Duh.  I got confused and thought you just had them.  All good, sorry.  

Anyway, for me, I need a plan for the bad times. If I try to wing it and don't have a go to plan, I get myself into trouble.  So, maybe think ahead if you have a really bad day what some things you can do to stay on track would be.  

Anyway, so awesome and happy happy for you!

[liliansdream]

Anyways all is good with me, and I look forward to drug free future...  

Liliansdream

[liliansdream]

Just a little update... This is day 5 without opiates...  Feeling a little empty.. that is the only way I can explain it... I can really feel how the opiates ruled now being without them.  It's harder to get out to the pool, but I'm forcing myself...and I do feel better after a swim, and a brisk walk... I am thrilled this worked for me and I really hope it helps other people who could benefit from this type of W/D off Suboxone.    

Good luck everyone

Liliansdream

[KLB84]

Every day will get better. Just keep pushing forward! I sent you a private message. Check your in box. Proud of you!

[liliansdream]

Day 8 off all Opiates... I can't believe it is almost a month since I started this...  I'm so glad I made the decision on New Years Day that this would be a good/clean year and new decade , and it all went without a hitch.  The only really hard day was when I switched from the Percs to Tylenol #3.. about 12 hrs.. if that was the worst of it, then I wonder why hospitals wouldn't offer this as an out patient program.  If the Percs are closely closely monitored, and decreasing rapidly and taking for no more than 10-12 I think it could help others.  Yesterday and today were good.. I remember it being like that from before.. some bad days some good, then more are good, then all are good.  The  quality is closely tied to cardio first thing in the morning for me.  To get my brain banging out my own endorphins.  One of the longer w/d symptoms can be depression and lack of energy, so this is really important to combat that.  

Salty girl.. If you come by to read please say hello.. Especially if yow u had a harder time after you went back to work .. okay  my page went ask backwar. ...

[liliansdream]

oh my page came out okay when I submitted it..   Anyway Salty if you are around, I'm doing great, and I must share you helped me so much just by letting me share from the heart...  You made me laugh when laughter was not easy..  

KLB84  I sent you a short  pm, but I'm sending another ... I want to share why I chose Liliansdream as my user name..

[mombojombo]

hey hey.  I want to say that I am so happy to hear it is going well.  Keep it up.  Life is good.  You are an inspiration.  hugs and love

[liliansdream]

Over a month with no Suboxone, and 16 days with no opiates...  I'm doing well... some days better than others..    Emotionally I feel really good knowing this is behind me, but physically I still feel a bit empty, and definitely have some days where I feel very weak.  I still go to the pool most mornings first thing and I need that, like really need it.  those days I go are so much better, than the ones I don't go..   When I'm swimming laps I'm speaking to my brain to kick out those endorphins and it seems to work...

I recall this was a very busy board years ago, with new people all the time... I wonder what happened...There are just as many addicts out there, more I would imagine.. Wonder why they are not coming here?  Anyone have any ideas..  I look as some posts and they are 5 years old..

Anyway thought I would update here...

Liliansdream

[Ben727]

Hey! Glad to hear you are doing well today. There will be ups and downs, you just have to hold fast and over time it will get much, much better!

I have a pretty good idea as to your question. I once made a long post with my speculation on this and it appears to have been taken down. Probably because I named the various acquiring companies, which I won't do this time. It helps to understand both revenue-generation models for web sites such as this one as well as general strategies around why a company would acquire a given web property. In short, a web site will get a certain number of unique visitors a month and generate a certain amount of ad revenue. This can be quantified and projected. For a mature site like this one, which was getting about 7 million hits a month in 2008 (per wikipedia) it's basically a cash cow. Overhead (the cost to maintain it) is fairly static and predictable as well as overall profit. If you started a site like this in 2002 and wanted to cash out, there are plenty of buyers out there. So without naming names, this site has changed hands and management four or five times since 2008. The owners and managers may or may not be all too concerned with overall user experience as long as profits are following projections. Not saying the current group are or aren't. And the mods, who live and work in the same City as me, are all quite dedicated and genuinely care so this isn't about them.

To me that only explains the UI (user interface) issue though. As to why this forum seems "dead", one quantifiable fact is that MedHelp does not show up in Google search results the way it used to. Googling "hydrocodone withdrawal" or something similar is how I found this place in 2011. If you search on that term now, you can go for 100s of hits without anything coming up from MedHelp. What most people don't know is that search results and advertising are inextricably linked on Google. I don't pretend to know the nuance, but my suspicion is that something to do with money caused MedHelp to lose traction in "The Algorithm" (which is a term for the black magic Google uses in search) around 2014. So that's my theory: Around 2014 1) UI goes downhill due to new management. 2) Site doesn't appear in search results the way it used to. 3) Result is that forum has less traffic and is harder to use. Hopefully they leave this up but who knows :)

[liliansdream]

Thank for that Ben...  Too Bad Google has so much control, and it' s all about bucks.  Also the National American Association of Buprenorphine Treatment  NAABT is still up but no new posting since 2017.  That was a very awesome site.  the moderator was very good.. Smart Helpful and kind.   Are there any other site operating now?  

As for me, it's been 18 days since no opiates, day 36 days off Suboxone.  I didn't go to the Y to swim this morning as i'm swimming with my daughter and grandson this afternoon, so I put on good dance music and just moved to it until I felt some natural energy coming.   I know this is day to day, one day at a time and that is still how I am managing this.  My house is a mess, but I don't have the energy to clean up..but that is okay, I will one day..  

At least I have been able to do my investing again, and can talk coherently with my Investor mentors without sounding like an idiot.  My God though when I think of it, I lost 10 years to Morphine & a 1 on Suboxone.. "my first go around" and htis time a year on pills and year and half on Sub.  I don't want to loose anymore time..  I like me!

Liliansdream

[mombojombo]

I wish some of the long time members would post more and maybe they will.  And then they can support the newbies.  People get as much out of giving to others as they do receiving (probably more).  That sense of connection is so important to me.  Even on less busy days here (and  more busy days that I have), I do take comfort in the fact that I CAN come here and there WILL be someone who cares when they read what I write.  I always want to give that sense of connection to others as I've been given.  

Anyway, that post time in which you've gotten through the acute phase are hard. That empty feeling, the void.  So hard.  And I think depression can happen and regret and shame. Do your very best to stay on top of that.  Talk it out.  We'll (I'll) listen.

I love that you go swimming with your daughter and grandchild.  That's really an awesome activity and bonding time with them.  And when I work out, I'm absolutely in a better head space and do tend to get more energy.  I'm good for deciding I'm just too tired.  And that lethargy is often what gets me in trouble.  Resist, lol.  Gotta make ourselves do it, right??  But so much more motivating when you have your lovely daughter and grandson waiting for you.

House. Yes, I can get very low about all I 'should' be doing.  And chaos in the house in terms of clutter, dirt, grime and general c rap clutter my brain.  It depresses me and overwhelms me.  (just being honest and not to talk about me instead of you).  I do try to make a list with 5 things on  it related to getting things in order each day.  Feels good to me to cross things off. The other thing I read about when I have a chunk of time and a big job to do or the house is a big ole mess is I do the timing of things that I've read about where you work really hard doing as much as you can as in power clean, sort, or scrub for 25 minutes and then you take a 15 minute break.  Then you do another 25 minutes and then another 15 minute break.  Set your phone or clock to sound so you know when to break and start. I get a lot done that way!  

Anyway, hope the weekend is good. I am going to clean a bathroom in 10 minutes. ha ha.  (crossing off a list and the end of my 15 minute break!)  

[liliansdream]

Hi Mombo,  I do so appreciate what you write.  You are a wonderful person for caring and writing.  I do come here and look to see if there is anyone new I can help.  Truth be told, I have not felt great the last couple weeks.  I think because I was so laser focused on pushing myself to swim every morning in Jan I exhausted myself.  I still go almost every morning but I don't always swim.  Sometimes I just go to get out and  have a hot tub and steam room and shower, dress & put on some make up and I feel better.. then I usually still go almost every day to visit my grandson 5 months, and get my baby love.. that gives me a big burst of endorphines...  I am taking the 5 hpt which is suppose to help with depression.  

In January I was very laser focused to make sure what I was doing, using short acting opiates was controlled and would work.  I think it worked because I went to the pharmacy everyday to pick up my days worth of pills. My pharmacist was very helpful, and did not charge me dispensing fees. He knew I would not be safe to take home a weeks worth of opiates.  I broke the day down into parts, with just having to get through each part.  I kept life simple, and I am so grateful I was in a position to do so.  Even using the short acting opiates, I could feel my body and brain was in a fight every day, but because for the first 3 weeks my body was still having some opiate it helped push me through the Suboxone w/d and the day.  Now a month without anything..  It has been harder.. no w/d symptoms really, just exhaustion..  I am done by 4 -5 pm, but I am up at 4 every morning.  I don't put myself into a position where I have to be on top of my game, so I have no social life right now.. I just can't.. I'm a little older now, and I think it will take me a little longer to fully recover.  I do have a deep sense of peace that I am off the Suboxone, and I am free free free... I don't need any pill to get through the day...   My Sub Dr. said it would take 2 months for my brain to reset.  Yep I can see that..   I am looking at the long game.... this site was an integral part of my recovery those early days, and though I have been scarce the last few weeks, it is only that I was just so tired.. when I would get home I would eat and lay down.. I think my energy is coming back, and I will carry on slowly like a soldier.....  

Like Saltygirl said...  doin it like a boss..   I miss you girl...

Liliansdream

[Ben727]

The fatigue will seem like it goes on forever. It will not go away suddenly, it will very, very gradually dissipate until one day you will look around and realize you’ve been charging hard from 7am until 11pm and never once thought about being tired. How long it takes will vary, do not question it or worry about how long. Like unwanted thoughts in meditation, note that you are fatigued and then go about getting rest. Save your strength whenever you can. This is a period of your life where you are incubating a new skill-set. Allow it to develop on it’s own pace without rushing. If you don’t have the luxury of taking things slow, triage your life. Don’t waste extra energy anywhere you don’t have to. The important things will wait for you. Taking this slow and patient approach will result in a strong foundation built on the fire and pain of recovery. Do this right and you will be stronger and wiser than you ever thought possible.

[Zorrbabe]

Wow that's crazy I just jumped on here randomly after looking at another site and saw that I posted you to begin with and then I saw you wrote back to me and I felt really good about it and then I thought I wrote again and I hope things are still working out for you. Yeah I'm on Subutex and that method does sound good because I've been able to use hydrocodone successfully for surgeries with monitoring from my mom and tapering off that is easier. I'm really proud of you

[SaltygirlFla]

I’m sorry I’m still foggy! But I was going to mention that I went to the health food store and bought a supplement called DLPA DL-PHENYLALANINE
It s a mixture of the D and L forms of amino acid .
It helps with endorphins in the brain.
Here in Florida a bottle of 100 cost me 27.50 .
I think if maybe you start them now it could possibly help with transitioning.
Look it up and see if that could be something to help.
I didn’t start them till a few days into the withdrawals . I believe if they’re taken and in your system for a week or so before it could be beneficial.
Have a great day !!!!

[liliansdream]

Good day Y'All... see I am becoming Americanized... :)   Well it was a day yesterday.. The Tylenol 3 is way weaker than Percacet..  I was in pretty significant w/d last night... You know that feeling of being up but you just can't focus and feel so weak all over .. I had to lay down, but then I got the restless legs.. Man hadn't felt those in a long long time..  Thank God, really thank you, that I had Gaba pentin and that calmed my legs down.   I was just laying there really worried, that this might not work..and my mind was racing of what I would do...  I felt so sick for a while, laying there unable to sleep, unable to be up..because I couldn't get comfortable, I just had to keep moving... that my mind even went to I may have to go back on the Percs, and since my Dr. doesn't work until Thurs afternoon my head went to I may have to take some Suboxone if the w/d are bad today until I can see her.  Then I remembered my CBD/THC oil, and thank God for that, as I took some and it put me to sleep.   However this morning I am not feeling great, but I am NOT in w/d's.  I do see though that the Percecets are in a class of their own, and much stronger than plain codeine.  But that is the plan, to go to something weaker, and taper off that..  So I am half way there...the perc part is over hurray,

I know some think that people should just suffer with the w/d process.  I say fooey on that.  W/D's are horrible, and many people who really want to be off, can't handle those horrible symptoms.. and my symptoms last night were not nearly as bad as they could be...  I have gone through a 10 day w/d before off  Hydro morhpine, but it was in a hospital, in a city I didn't live in, and I had no way to leave, as my car was at my sisters house and  she had my purse.. so I had to stick it out.. Hell... I remember screaming at the Dr. I would not make my chickens suffer this way.. Kill me now... lol.    Anything that can help I say bring it on.  So I take some CBD oil with some THC in it.  It is not like smoking a joint.. I don't particularly like that, but the oils give a different affect.  A very deep calming, a small head shift from normal,   and  it's beauty for putting me to sleep... So between that and the Gaba pentin I survived the night... .  We need to be real here.. we are fighting the worst demon... Opiates, not only take your body, they take your soul..  Actually in Canada, all Cannabis is legal..  We have MDS specifically trained in  prescribing Cannabis..  Anyone who has seen a child in massive eplileptic seizures, 50 a day, and with real CBD oil from the cannabis plant, not Hemp, those seizures stop, and will still say NO NO NO.. to me is cruel.  I use to be one of them.. but suffering has no goodness or God in it.  IMHO

You know they have found no relationship between how awful a w/d is to the likely hood of whether someone returns to using opiates...  When a person chooses to use again, they have long forgotten how hellish the w/d was or either their mind is so made up to use and nothing is going to change it...  I have lived long enough to know, you bring all your armanents to battle.. no one walks in to war with just shear determination.. Determination plus tools/weapons, give one a better chance of success...  my two cents worth for this morning..   I know a bit of a rant, but that is on my mind.  

Saltygirl you sound so much better.. I'll write on your thread...

Liliansdream

[liliansdream]

Day 15 off Suboxone,   This is the 3rd day off the Percecet.  I am so glad that part is over.  I hated the feeling the percs were giving me, and I knew I had to be super vigilent  with decreasing every two days, so I could switch to the Tylenol #3.  First night I was very sick, and even very sick, I went to the Y in the morning..  I couldn't swim but I was able to use the hot tub.  A woman I see at the pool in the mornings does Touch Therapy, energy work, and she saw I was suffering... I felt nausea from the codeine, my head was swirling, I was trembling and I had deep chills.... She asked if I would like her to give me a treatment, right there at the Y no charge.. once dressed she did her thing... I couldn't believe how much better I felt after 15 minutes.  Before I was trembling, and very weak, I couldn't think, and I was cold even after the hot tub.  After I left with a skip in my  walk.. and was able to join my daughter and 4 month old grandson for a parent tot swim later in the day at my local pool "not where I swim at the Y.   I felt such a release in emotions, I cried like a baby.  When I get to the end of this and if I feel very depressed I will use her services.  I would never have imagined someone moving their hands around my body as I sat there could make me feel so much better.

I notice a big change now that I'm off the Subs and Percs... both being synthetic drugs, and very hard on the brain and mind...  I know the Percs did nothing for me other than to transition me off the Sub to the Tylenol 3 and I have no worry about them.  I am ready to start decreasing the Tylenol 3.. I was prescribed a max of 10/day, same as the percs and needed the 10 for the first 2 days until my body adjusted.  Today I will get 9, and decrease one a day...  

I get it why some can say I'm fooling myself. I really do, but addiction like everything else in this world, does not have a one cure fits all.   I am very grateful my doctor was on board for this.. yes my Suboxone Dr. was on board with this.. maybe because she knew how devastated I was  I ruined a very happy relationship with my ex..over pills.  She knew how much I hated the Suboxone.. She knew I couldn't handle a long slow taper off the Subs..   She knew I had never had a dealer, or boughten drugs off the street.. She knew the situation with my ex, was a totally freakish one and very unlikely to happen again,  and in the year and half since I had been on the Sub, my urine samples were always clean, she knew I picked up less than prescribed of the Sub, she knew I tapered down to 2 mg on my own but had a really hard time getting to 1.5 mg. and she trusted I had a good chance getting off it this way.  That is all I want, a chance... and what is the worst that can happen I'm back on Sub?    I was taking 1.5 - 2 mgs of Suboxone 2 weeks ago..  I feel  better already.. I don't have that nervous fear that I was becoming a zombie on that stuff, and the tremendous fear I had knowing the longer on the Sub the harder to get off it..  and I am hopeful... I am still in the war, one fight at a time and I believe I will soon be free.

So off to the Y I go again... I think I will be able to swim today...

Good luck to everyone in this fight.

Liliansdream

[SaltygirlFla]

Bless your sweet heart !!
You own this . This isn’t an average person fight , we’re being trained for something so much greater! BOSS !!!

[mombojombo]

I agree.  As long as you get to your end goal, who cares what anyone thinks or says, right?  You can do this.  I personally think something was up with your ex for keeping those pills and doing what he was doing. Shady, for sure.  So, I would hope you steer clear of that guy for your own sake.  But yes, in general, when our relationships get ruined, we've paid a dear price for our addiction.  

You stay strong and keep your head straight.  You are a boss.  hugs

[liliansdream]

Day 16 and I think I've got this...  Yesterday after my swim, and few chores etc when I got home around 2:00  I was very tired...I ate a bit and laid down for an hour.. I had taken my last pill at 10:00 so it was time for another but I thought I'll take it when I get up... Well I didn't get up until 9:00..  and my first thoughts weren't about a pill, in fact I made a coffee, and didn't even realize anything until 9:30 and I thought wow it's been 11 1/2 hrs and I feel fine.  I did take 1 pill when I went back to bed at midnight just to make sure my body was easy to sleep.. I don't get any feeling from it..  coming from Suboxone to Percs to Tylenol 3... it was like taking a regular tylenol.. I think I went through the worst w/d the other night.. and I almost think I can just stop now.  Or that Energy Work the other day at the Y did something miraculous because since then I have felt well..I was told it would last 72hrs..  But the swimming helps too.  Yesterday I only swam half my routine, but it was 25 mins of cardio and think boosting endorphin production for only that limited time is enough to give the brain what it craves.. feel good hormones.  I've heard that other opiate addicts need that cardio workout.. it really does help.

  The woman who did the energy thing.. "she didn't actually touch me just around me" gave me her card, and I looked her up online.  She has been doing this in hospitals and ICU's for 25 yrs.  She was a nurse before she got into this full time..  She teaches courses on this, and there is a level 1 starting in Feb.. I am going to take the course..  She also does PTSD training with horses, combined with energy work..  I was skeptical about this, but not since I felt the tremendous difference on Tuesday.. I think it is important when we let go of a mighty bad habit, it's important to bring new good things in.. send us in a new direction..

I really feel like I've got this now... I'm so happy this morning.   For an addict to know I went 11 1/2 hrs after taking a short acting " 4hr" Tylenol 3 and feeling fine, Well that changes everything...  Freedom is right there for me.  Thank you God! Thank you Salty, Mombojombo, & KLB84... I will be eternally grateful.

Walking like a BOSS...

Liliansdream

..

[liliansdream]

Mombojombo,   I don't think what my ex did was shady.   He was really hurt from a head on crash, not his fault.  He was knocked out "horrible concussion" which lead to  OCD behavior, brachial plex  damage, broken ankle foot.  It was a long recovery.  It happened while working, and the Adminstration of the company had forgotten to send in his insurance papers when he had started working there.. He could not work after the accident and suing the company was hell and took years.  He needed the pain pills, but after so many years he wanted to stop but since his medical records were constantly reviewed he was scared to say he stopped taking pain meds..  He was still in pain but just didn't want to take pills.. He was not taking them when I met him.  So knowing him as I do, I think absolutely he should have thrown out the pills each month and not stockpile them, but I don't think his intention was to ever harm anyone.    His name was on every bottle, so he hadn't gotten them illegally.  The amount never changed.. drug people never came around. Once his claim had been settled just before I met he stopped getting more pills.  

What attracted me to him was his very straight edge and conservative nature.. i was totally opposite, so the two together balanced each other.. "   His dad  was a cop and he had it drilled into him from a kid never to do anything wrong.. his dad still lived in his head.  I don't think he had any idea I was stealing his pills, until he realized they were gone. I don't think he wanted to hurt  me in any way.. It was just a very bizarre situation and he was very stupid..  If I had more self confidence I would have told him up front  He was the first person I met as a friend when I moved from Nova Scotia to Ontario so he was my friend, my lover everything to me...  yet once I took one oxycontin I was hooked and I could not stop.. finally after about 8 months of slowly building up I threw the rest of them down the toilet, and started back on Suboxone.   I don't see him at all.  :(

Now, all I wanted was to be on Sub for a few weeks, but my d....a..s Dr. made me commit to 6 months.. F..k  why!   The problem when we see a sub Dr. is that we are at our worst of the worst, and all we want is help, to stop w/d's.  We know ourselves, and  I know me, but Dr.s think they know best.  I knew all I needed was help to get off the pills, not get on another pill long term.. six months turned into a 1 1/2 yrs  Oh well it over..  I'm so happy to say it is over....

The w/d is over, my energy seems to be back somewhat.. I feel good this morning after all that sleeping yesterday.. so I think what I have done has worked.  I will decrease dramatically and I will only pick up 4 -5 today and 3 tomorrow and I should be done.. I don't want the codeine to build up..  that will bring me to almost 3 weeks since Sub and I think by swimming I have given myself a head start on bouncing back and being drug free.  

I am the Boss...lol

Liliansdream

[mombojombo]

So, I do not want to make you upset in any way.  I   still think your ex's behavior was shady and if you don't like that word, very very odd.  He was collecting pain pills.  Strange behavior.  He needed to do so to make him look like he had a pain problem for a financial pay out?    And he hoarded them.  It's not really normal behavior although he sounds like he had some good qualities as well.  You do seem quite melancholy about the relationship and I'd be afraid you'd try to go back to it.  And that could be disastrous for your sobriety. That's all.  There was something off from an outsider's perspective about this guy.  Of course, I know a snippet of information and you know him.  And you lost something that meant a great deal to you over pills and that hurts.   I know talking to someone can be expensive but it would be very helpful for you if you had a therapist to discuss this stuff with. Or just talk to us.  ha ha.  

I so want what you want for you.  Stay the course---- yes!  You can do it!!!  hugs

[liliansdream]

Mombojombo,   You overstepped.  I found what you wrote somewhat upsetting.  He is not a shady person...  He was very hurt from the accident... The concussion alone took him two years to recover from, and he was never completely the same..never mind the damage to his body.. He is older, and did not have years to make back the money he lost.  He deserved every cent he got from the Insurance Co..  He was naive about addiction.  He is not a drug user, actually he is one of the really good guys...He would not harm anyone intentionally.     I am not melancholy, I am explaining, how strong addiction to opiates is... That I ruined a very good happy  relationship with a man I loved, over those stupid pills.  The relationship has been over for a year and half...   You don't know .  Lets end this discussion now please.. I am here for support and to give support to those struggling with drug addiction.  If I need a therapist I will find one.  I don't need anyone else in my head telling me  how I should feel and try to push anti depressants on me.  Actually in all other areas of my life I am good.

I felt very good today..  I had more energy this morning, and I swam with pleasure... "I didn't have to force myself".  When I went to the Pharmacy I told the pharmacist I thought I would only need a few for the next 2 days and I would be done...  He tried to convince me to take another week??. to not stop too soon...  I told him I didn't want my  brain to become accustomed to codeine.. I only picked up 4 pills  because I had 2 left.  I have no desire to take them, and maybe I will still have them all tomorrow.  I don't seem to have any bad symptoms.  My energy seems good and steady, but tomorrow may be a different story.. I do think swimming first thing in the morning or some cardio for at least 20-30 minutes, is key to recovery from opiate addiction.  I can't wait to see my Dr. on Tuesday, and show her it worked.. and to ask her to please do this for others who CAN be helped this way... The way I did it is not for everyone but I believed I could do it, and I have.  I think decreasing the Percs "beIng extremely cautious" and getting off them quickly is also imperative.  

I'm rocking this Saltygirl...  I am thinking of you, and I know everything is good with you.. but I sure would like to hear from you.  Your support, and telling me I was a boss, really did help me.  those words stuck with me.  

Hugs to all

Liliansdream

[Zorrbabe]

Proud of you all on 4mg subs dropped from 6 took a month but feeling it now!

[liliansdream]

Zorrbabe,  Sorry I missed this post.  Are you saying you dropped from 6mg to 4mg a month ago, and just feeling it now?   I would be happy to support you if you like..  

take it easy

Liliansdream

[liliansdream]

Day 18 off Suboxone,  I feel good....not quite as much energy as yesterday morning, but still very good considering what I have just been through.  I have not needed any Tylenol #3.  I only picked up 3 yesterday..I had 1 left.   We had a big snowfall last night so not sure I want to dig out this early to go to the Y and swim this morning.. However, I'm almost afraid not to as it has been the  thing to set me up for a good day and I don't want to jynx anything.  

Mombojombo... Even though I was somewhat upset by your last post, I think you are a great person to come here and support all the people you do.  

Wishing everyone a great day.

Liliansdream

[SaltygirlFla]

I guess calling myself a Dumb Ass is frowned on . Lol ! Dang it ! Can’t take me anywhere!

[liliansdream]

Good Day to everyone struggling and a big congratulations to everyone who beat this.  Saltygirl you are no dumb ass for taking on such a huge  struggle and winning. And so nice to hear the humor in your words....funny girl :).   I know you are a winner and you have beaten the worst of this..  By day 10 I bet you really feel a bounce back... nice to treat yourself to sprinkles on your frozen yogurt... Imagine all the money you will save....  Your dealer won't be harassing you will they..  Keep life small & simple..what you can handle comfortably.

I think sometimes I post too much about the crazy things that have happened in my life due to addiction..if so forgive me.  My brain is in an in between state.  I can tell the Suboxone is out...  and I am starting to feel the Percs, which scares the heck out me so a good time to switch to the Tylenol #3 today..

KLB84..  No worries I only have what I pick up from my pharmacist daily.  

I'm not swimming this morning..  I need a break.  I've gone 12 out of 13 days, and I'm tired and I see my Dr. this morning.  I usually swim every other day, so daily " I really don't know how I've done it"  yesterday in the change room after my swim, I didn't bother putting on my makeup or doing my hair other than drying it.  I usually would take an extra pill before swimming but yesterday I didn't  and I could tell w/d's were starting.  I leave my purse and pills in the car.. I always have one left before I go to the pharmacists..  The good news in all this is, I am only taking one pill at a time... in active addiction I would wolf down "so many" its scary to think.

I am nervous about the switch no denying it.  I'm worried because codeine can make me feel very sick to my stomach..  I did get some ginger gravol and I have a stomach protector..and I will make sure I eat something with each pill.....that will help. I know I will feel better emotionally once off the Percs.  This is the plan and i'm sticking to it..

I trade stocks, so I usually have tons of reading.  I have bigger investor friends who I usually talk to once a week about what is going on.  Yesterday I had one of those conversations, and I had to fake flu.. I couldn't think..  it's going to be like this for a while..  I will have to think of something longer term, of why I can't talk.  

I'll be good... I'm the boss  :) and I will kill this demon thing, one day at a time..

You too Salty..you got this. I'm so proud of you.. Hugs & more Hugs..  

Remember you are the biggest, badest, bestest boss lady out there...soon we will be in leathers riding Harley's..lol

Your Warrior Sister

Liliansdream

[SaltygirlFla]

I love everything you said!!!
Girl I know what you’re talking about with the makeup thing ! Going through this got me thinking that I’m a supermodel without taking a shower! Lol !!
Not even close ! Lol
But until I go to work tomorrow, I’m not worried about how I look.
I’m sure you look amazing!
It’s that Boss glow we got going on !
So awesome that you trade stocks !!! I’ve the last few years bought some that are doing pretty good ! I’d love to actually talk to you about that!
Maybe my stocks will pay for those Harley’s ;)

[SaltygirlFla]

Have a wonderful day ! You got this Boss Lady !!!

[liliansdream]

Saltygirl,  I'll pm you later re stocks...  This morning has been rough,  Could be I od'd on exlax  last night..lol  

Have a good day hun!     I am happy you are returning to work .. just remember to pace yourself.  Recovery is #1.

L'sdream

[SaltygirlFla]

Girl this crap isn’t for the weak!!
You’re so strong!!!
I’ll be sending you all my positive vibes today!!!
Doin’ it Boss !!!!

[SaltygirlFla]

Liliansdream hey sister Warrior !!
You’re so stressed about your tapering that alone will cause added anxiety .
I was downing my weight in pills everyday before I tapered . I was sick with anxiety just thinking about it .
Just thinking there’s no way I can go from taking 200mg per day to eventually 5mg ! Eeekkk !!!
But I had built this anxiety up so much it was consuming me .
And when I finally didn’t it I was like oh ok, I’m not dying, it’s not comfortable, but in my head I had told myself that it was going to kill me. And my ******* believed it .
Girl you’re a beast ! You got this !!
You have a plan and it’s a damn good one !!
You do this thing boss !!!    

[KLB84]

So the subs are finally out of your system! Tomorrow you start Tylenol 3? When you make the switch don't keep any percs on hand 'just in case'. Get rid of everything as soon as you can and don't hold onto anything - especially once you're done with the taper! I made this mistake once. And its so easy to take one when you're almost through to the other side but still have no energy - and all u want is a little energy... don't give into this temptation. Youre right that this time is critical (as well as the coming weeks) and we can be our own worst enemy. Be honest with yourself and be brave. You can do this. We're pulling for you.
And PS. Congrats on telling your daughter!

[mombojombo]

How are you today Liliansdream?  I know this is hard. We all JUST want the best for you.  The hard sub w/d is over?  Fantastic.  

[Kelcoo]

Good morning Liliansdream,  well I’m so confused by your taper and worried for you.  You had Suboxone in your system on the 8th and taking opiates?  Does your doctor specialize in addiction? Not all doctors have your best interests at heart.  Your also using a thc product.  Does your doctor know about this?  I wouldn’t want you to be cut off because of it.  Your really on a slippery slope and with your history relapse isn’t out of the question.  You’ve kinda already slipped back to pill use regardless if it’s for a taper.  Not trying to be harsh but being addicted to opiates is awful.  

[liliansdream]

Thank you for your concern Kelco.  I had not taken Suboxone for almost a week when I had a urine sample and the sub still showed up.  That is just because of it's crazy long half life.  Even though it showed up in my urine, I was still in w/d  all week.  I could feel it even with the percecet.  I could not do a Suboxone taper past 1.5 mg.   My Sub Dr. knows I use Cannabis Oils.  I live in Canada and this is legal.  It is prescribed for a lot of health issues including opiate withdrawal .  I was taking it for sleep, and it has been wonderful for that.  I don't think I would have slept without it.  I stop the percecet Tues, and switch to Tylenol 3 for a week..  Then I am off all of it, which I can't wait to happen.  

I know this is approach is not the norm, but I read "on here"   "itstime" how he did it this way and it worked.  I do not have access to opiates once I am through in 10 days.   I can tell the hard Suboxone w/d is over..  so I definetly am cutting down on the Percecet.   I never fill the full amount of what I am allowed.

Liliansdream

[mombojombo]

What always worries me is the slippery slope we find ourselves on.  I'm afraid you are on a really slippery slope.  I do NOT want to bring you down or rock your boat. You sound optimistic and I certainly hope you are successful in this mission. But I do worry about a crash.  Is this all by yourself?  Do you have any support?  

If there is one thing I would do away with, it's shame.  Such a powerful feeling and so dangerous.  There is NO shame in addiction.  It's a disease. And some turn to pills, booze but there are lots of addictions from eating, to shopping, to gambling that people are doing as they try to cope with complex mental health issues.  I think the isolation we can feel as we deal with addiction is debilitating in its own right. So, glad you are here reaching out.  

I'm encouraging of you.  I'm a little afraid of your method.  But am sending you cyber strength for this to work out!  Stay in touch!!

[liliansdream]

Thank you Mombojombo for your honesty and support.. Really appreciated.  A support forum like this is so helpful.  I understand your concern.  I do!  I do however think I will be okay and when my last day of the Tylenol comes I will be okay.. as long as my body is not in withdrawal I can handle the tiredness, moodiness, emotional rollercoaster.  It is the physical w/d symptoms I just can't tolerate.  The thought of having w/d's with each Sub dose reduction and then go through w/d at the end jumping just sounds too long and painful.  I don't do well with feeling that kind of sick.  I would be so depressed.  

I know this is my shot, my time to do this and do this right.  I am not worried about getting high off the oxycodone.  I think there will be enough residual Suboxone to block the euphoric effect of the oxycodone, and my body will be in w/d from the Suboxone so it will be fighting that.  The oxycodone is the lesser in strength, and the Tylenol #3 is even lesser still.  so from a physical point of view, when I land in 17 days, my body should be able to rest without the need of an opiate.  That is my goal.  The Plain Codeine is the easiest of the opiates to w/d from.  I will be decreasing that daily.. and I do not have to take the Codeine for the full 10 days.. Afterwards  there may be some restless legs, or other symptoms, but these can be treated.  Today I took 1 1/2 pills when I got up at 4:30 then another 1 1/2 at 9 just before getting in the pool.  I was feeling weak and chilled.  Then I had 1 at 12:30 and 1 1/2 at 5:00.  I will have one more when I go to bed.  When they are wearing off I really feel the w/d symptoms..  I get that weird spacey head feeling.. where you just can't think and my gut feels weird, and my body crawly.. So I took 6 yesterday and it will be 6 1/2 today.   I am allowed 10 but if 6 does it I'm happy.  Swimming I think helps too..

It has been a nightmare for me being on the Suboxone.. It is all so painful to me because I went from a hopeless morphine addict, to full recovery and a relationship where I was very much in love,  and back to addiction and Suboxone and the loss of a very happy relationship.  

I want my sobriety back more than anything..  I have a new 3 month old grandson and I want to get to know him totally clear. The lack of emotions, blankness, I was feeling from the Subs was getting worse.. In the 5 years of sobriety I repaired my relationship with my sister and others, and since on the Sub I am not available it feels..   I have so much good in my life, and I want to be able to really enjoy it.. I'm excited to be back there.  

I know how good life is without drugs. I will get there day by day, and I am grateful for this forum and kind people like yourself...  and KLB84.  It means so much to me knowing I have a place where I can share honestly...... Truly I don't know anyone who sells drugs... I don't go out to places where people are using..

Liliansdream

L

[liliansdream]

Day 4..... I woke in the night feeling pretty bad.  I had to change my PJ's because of sweating, but that is not unusual.. I would sweat almost every night on the Sub.    I took 1 pill and some CBD/THC oil ... I'm Canadian and that is legal. I don't smoke pot, never really have, but a little in oil with the CBD is excellent at putting me to sleep.  I slept until 5.  I took 1 1/2 pills but I can tell that my body is struggling.  I am just going to keep moving forward and go to the Y to have an early swim.. Even if I can't swim much I can relax in the hot tub. And it's getting out.  If I don't go out first thing, early, I probably would not go out all day.

I pick up my pills daily.  My choice. ... I just wanted to ensure I not take more than I should..  I have never taken them all.  In fact twice I told the pharmacist to deduct what I have left. But I am having second thoughts about that.  I am suppose to see my Sub Dr. Tuesday.. From a past experience my worst day trying to stop Sub was day 5... I guess I'm a slow metabolizer.. but from my research Sub can still be active up to 80 hrs.  

I'll post later in the day...

Liliansdream

[liliansdream]

Day 5 I am really  feeling it today... clammy sweats, can't focus my mind on much for long.. I'm dressed to the go to the pool .. I'm half thinking I shouldn't bother to go, but a part of me says go... I just have to go.. if when there I don't feel like I can swim then just have a hot tub, steam and shower.. I feel sitting around I will drive myself crazy...  I think the next few days will hard, and if I'm worse tomorrow I don't know how I will make it to see the dr...  okay getting ahead of myself... I'll just go to the Y and see how it goes...    


liliansdream

[mombojombo]

You can do this.   Focus on each moment at a time and yes, stay distracted.  Hopefully it actually gets easier as each day passes and you KNOW that will eventually be the case. Do you have anyone supporting you? That can help you get to the doctor and just be there for you some right now?

[liliansdream]

Day 6,  I slept from about 2 in the afternoon until midnight.  When I woke I was soaked and very mentally confused.. I  got up and took  1 percecet.  I took another 1 at 2. a.m. and went back to bed.  I also took some cbd/thc oil and that causes a deep relaxation.  I also take Gabapentin so that helps with restless legs.  

I do think the best thing is to try and keep busy, just keep moving.  I felt rough when I first went into the pool yesterday morning but forcing myself to move helped a lot.  I was able to keep up a cardio workout for 30 minutes..  I then went to the pharmacy to pick up my days pills, and talked with the pharmacist.  He is supportive.  I then went to Walmart and held onto a cart and pushed it around the store for an hour so that when I got home I was tired and could sleep...  I am not promoting the CBD/THC oils but for me it is has been helpful...  When I first went to see the MJ Doctor "In Canada we have real medical doctors prescribing for various problems"  I had told the Dr. when I first went in the summer that I was on Suboxone and wanted off.. He said he had many patients who were successful getting off Sub with cannabis oils.   Anything that helps.  

I was going to tell my daughter yesterday but I just don't want to cause her any worry...  I am okay this morning.. I don't feel great of course, but I'm not wretchedly sick.  My head is going "baboom baboom whirly and I can feel my body is fighting something.   I will go to the pool again, and then I will go directly to my Sub Dr.  I will be taking the Percecets for another 5 days then switch to the Tylenol #3.  for 10 days.  she only works Tues and Thurs.. I hope I don't have to go back Thurs..   I have never taken all the Percecets I am allowed.  I seem to need more in morning to get moving, but once I have some cardio at the pool I feel better naturally... I must be making endorphines..  

Thanks for  your support and I will update as I go along...

Liliansdream

[liliansdream]

I was able to swim yesterday morning and I made it my Dr's appt.  My urine sample showed that the Suboxone was still present..  That is a full 5 days of no Subs, but it is still showing up.. shows how long that half life really is.. over a 120 hours.  My head is not quite as wonky this morning..  I can think.  I got a new prescription for the percecet , and she is leaving it up to me as to how many I pick up daily.   The max is 8/day.. My pharmacist knows my goal is to be down  to 4 or 5 when I switch to Tylenol 3 next Tues.  My Dr. has not read that article I printed off for her on W/D people off Suboxone, by that Dr, Palm Beach Detox.  She won't like it as it really comes down on Dr.'s prescribing Suboxone long term, unless absolutely necessary.  She had said to me it is a better alternative than death, but I asked her why she insisted I give her 6 months on sub for my brain to heal??  The brain doesn't heal... and I had a pill habit for a year... Once on the Suboxone you do feel better, stable, and it sure would have helped having a doctor knowledgeable that more than a month of taking Suboxone  makes it very very difficult to come off..  I remember reading all this literature on line that said w/d off Suboxone was a lot less painful than other opiates. Any opiate is hard to w/d from, but Sub is just as hard or harder because of the long half life, .  It was too easy to keep taking the Suboxone.  I don't know what the Sub does, but it sorta takes away some free will.  One becomes automatic, and the Sub does make you feel better, until it doesn't... and then to taper... anything under 2mg is painful.  taking away crumbs is painful... and long.

I dropped in to see my daughter yesterday and I told her..She was away last week so I didn't have to see her..  but I knew she would be asking me to do things with her, and I didn't want her to think I was just being withdrawn.. She took it well.. I'm glad I had almost a week in before I told her, so she know I'm handling it..  "not like the last time, when I was over the edge scared of w/d" She did not know, and I did not tell her about my stealing my BF's pills.. I told her I had been prescribed teh Hydromorphone for too long after my knee replacement and I couldn't just stop...  She is taking my 3 1/2 month old grandson to the local pool for a parent tot swim at 11 this morn..  I will not go for my regular swim at the Y this morning as I don't want to get wet twice.   However I do think by my forcing myself out early each day and swimming has helped so much... I think if I had of stayed in and thought about it, I would have worked myself into panic thinking ..

The symptoms I have been having, are the sweats, my breathing feels a little laboured, loss of appetite, a sick feeling in my gut..  The cbd/thc oil has been a miracle worker for sleeping.. .. it has a deep relaxation effect.  I would rather take it than lorazapam.  

Well another day... from here on out I think it will get better.. Tomorrow will be 7 full days off the Sub.  Emotionally I still feel kinda blank.  I can't wait until I have a real feeling again...  

Liliansdream

[liliansdream]

Start of week 2.  I feel a little better this morning... Not that really messed up confused mental state when I first get up and before the Perc kicks in.   I feel I am doing really well, even though I don't like taking the Percs... They will stop soon...

I understand how many would feel this is a totally wrong way to get off an opiate, by using anotter opiate.. but Sub is not like any other opiate..  It does not want to drop off the receptors easily like a short acting opiate, and while the slow process of w/d is happening it is very painful.  I would imagine by today or tomorrow the Suboxone should pretty well be out of my system, and I can start to deal with a mid to fast taper off the percecets so dropping down to Tylenol #3 will not be hard.   I have been told that in effectiveness 1 Perc = 2 Tylenol 3.  I want to be down to 5 Percs by Sunday/Monday for the switch on Tuesday.  

I think one thing that worked in my favour, is that going to the Y early has been my routine for years, and keeping that up, swimming "almost my normal routine" helped 1. Making me focus on something else.  2.)  the beneficial effects of a 40 minute cardio workout. 3.)  Overcoming the fear that I can't do it while in some w/d.   Of course I'm not in full w/d's, but I am in enough that I don't feel great, I don't feel totally me, and I can feel this wozey all over my body.   It feels like I am just following an entrenched habit, sort of going through the motions, will get me where I want to go..  My goal is to do as much good to myself as I can.. swimming does burn off all the anxiety or from what I read in that Dr. article, the increase in Cortisal production "Adrenaline",  cause an extreme poor response to stress...  So this helps with that.  Before I go I even put on Taylor Swifts last CD and dance around just to lift my mood.  Seeing my grandson  3 1/2 month old grandson yesterday also really warmed my heart.  

I have also been sleeping long stretches..thanks to the oils I have been taking.   Since I am up at 4-5 a.m.  and get out of the house by 7:00 and try and stay out until 1-2 pm, when I come home I'm usually feeling emotionally good, physically tired, and underlying w/d's.  I have not wanted to cook... food smells, kinda turn my stomach...but I have been drinking Ensure..  I can pick away at a bit of food, but not really into it right now.

I go lay down around 4 and sleep until 10 or so, get up and watch some TV and back to bed by 12 - 1 and up at 5 and just  get through another day..   Yesterday I took 7 1/2  5 mg pills.  

Liliansdream

[liliansdream]

Today is day 9 and I awoke feeling much better this morning.   My body felt more relaxed.  I did have a significant amount of sweating last  night though..  I'm at the point I can cut out 25% of the percecet per day.   The first 2-3 days 6/day was enough, but days 4-7 I had to increase this to 8-9, now I think I am through the worst of it and can quickly cut down to 4-5 by Monday....  

This is where I need to be in total control..  Yesterday when I went to pick up I asked for 6 instead of the 9 I could have gotten.. The pharmacist said, are you sure???  I told him I had 2 left over and this is the time to decrease..  Both my doctor and pharmacist just don't get it how critical the next week is... I'm aware, that most of the w/d symptoms from the Suboxone  are over, and I don't want to feel high from the percs...  this is the slippery slope and I am going down it with my brakes on full...  I know what the next week will mean for me..    BE SMART  It was a gift to be able to do this, as I wanted off the Suboxone so badly...    I have one thing going for me and that is I have been through this before and had almost 5 yrs clean so I know the brain heals when it is free of opiates, and real life is soo soo much better than a life needing to take a pill everyday that makes you feel like you are not really there..  

I have cut all my pills in half, and some into quarters..  instead of a full one I can take half, and if I still feel shaky or weak I can take an extra 1/4.

Liliansdream

[KLB84]

This worries me because I tried to use short acting opiates my first try at jumping and ended up right back on subs going through the whole process again! Even though I didn't know any "dealers", it's funny how we can find a source when we really want to. I'm not saying you can't do this, but I feel it's important for me to share my concern/worry/word of caution.
Where did you get your opioids when you relapsed?
I will say I think it's very good your GP knows about your addiction and very good that this prescribing Dr. Is only giving you a little at a time.
I truly wish you the best. We're always here if you need us.

[liliansdream]

Thank you KBL84.... I know you are expressing concern because you care, and you want me and anyone trapped on Suboxone to be safe on their way to freedom.  To answer your question about where I got the opiate pills when I relapsed.  This is a very sad tragic story.   a

Some background.  When I originally got addicted 16 years ago, it was following a horrible knee injury.. I was given strong opiates for way too long and inevitably got addicted.. This nightmare lasted 10 years.  I sold my home in Nova Scotia to move to Ontario to be closer to my daughters.. I had just gotten off the Morphine.  House prices are way higher in southern Ontario than Nova Scotia, so my daughter picked me out a mobile home in a park just outside the own she lived in.   The whole time I was on morphine I did not date.  I just thought unfair to start a relationship with all that baggage.  During those 10 years I had put on weight, and just had a negative attitude towards myself.. I'm sure you know what I mean.. drugs do that.  So when I moved I had been clean for 2 years.  When I moved I met a new male friend.. We talked almost everyday, and I was thrilled when he was wanting to spend time with me.  We were friends for about a year and half until we became a couple.  I was so happy.. I had been clean 3 1/2 years by this time, and I was a totally new person.. I was working out daily, lost weight, and looked good.  I was so happy he had wanted me as a lot of single women out at the mobile park where we lived were after him.   I felt complete.. I had a great new relationship with my daughters and my family.. Made up for all the time I had lost.

I never told "him" my problem.. I was afraid to..  He had told me his story of being in a bad car accident, many injuries and had sued.  He also told me he had been prescribed oxycontin/hydro/ the whole menu of opiates.  He told me he had taken the pain killers for 5 years until he took himself off.  He was physically dependent for sure, but by the sounds of it, he was not hard and fast addicted.  He hadn't been increasing his dose.. and he took by mouth.  He told me how he sweated it out for 3 days..  W/D if addicted takes 7-10 days..  He talked like addiction was mind over matter.. because he had gotten of them.   Because of the lawsuit he had, he kept seeing his Dr. and getting renewals on oxycontin, picking them up and stashing them.  He did this because he didn't want the insurance co. to think he was off the pain medication.  One day when he was going over the story he pulled out this  bag which was full of pills.. every kind of opiate out there.. I was shocked ..  I had no desire to take any.. by this time I had 4 years clean,. For the next year I had no desire to take any.. I kept telling him to throw them out or take them back to a pharmacy.. he kept saying yes he would get rid of them but didn't.  I know he was not taking any..   I just couldn't believe how this could be so.. Of all things who has stashes of opiates unless they are a dealer.. It was an unbelievable situation.. I know the Devil is in the details here..   At this time I was waiting for a knee replacement.  I was in a lot of pain and going to work, and I snuck a couple a pills.. That was it, all it took.  I was opiate naive so one oxycontin made me feel so good.. I kept telling myself once I have the surgery I will be okay.. Fooling myself.  For the next year I was sneaking his pills.. then it got to the point where I was so afraid he would see some gone.. I was frantic.. In a moment of complete despair because I knew I would take them all, I flushed them all down the toilet.. and got rid of all the pill bottles.. I was on pins and needles waiting for him to notice. We didn't live together but were just a few minutes apart.  Because I had taken so many for almost a year I had to go back on Suboxone..  He eventually found out.his pills were gone. I denied any involvement, but he knew..I blew my relationship, because of shame.. if I just could have told him upfront none of this would have happened.

KBL84  I am not worried about having pills available in the future..   This past situation was just so unlikely, and I don't think would repeat itself.. next time if I am ever in a relationship I will tell them..

This is day 3 and I am starting to feel unwell... Yesterday I only took 6 pills so today I will only pick up 4 .. I am only taking them if I get the hibijeebies really badly.  
I
I just want to be free again..  I know how well I felt for those 5 years and I want that back.. I want my own mind an demotions back. I don't want to feel shame etc.  I will be responsible with these oxycodones.. This is my chance and I am grateful to have my sub dr. agree to do this... I wonder how she will feel about that Dr's article I printed off for her.. I hope it opens her eyes to the dangers she is putting some people in..  

I have some Gabapentin which will help and some lorazapam which is a mild tranquillizer for sleep.  I have CBD oil which is supposes to help too.  

I'm off to the Y.. I need to swim as much as I can before the bad w/d's start.. and a hot tub.  I felt really unwell when I woke up, but I took 1 1/2 oxycodone..I feel better so I better go now..

I'll keep you posted, and thanks for your support...

Liliansdream