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Feb 18, 2014 - 24 comments

I want to scream right now.  I want to cry right now.  I want to sob on someone shoulders right now and never let go.  I want to go a kill a punching bag until the stuffing is all laying around on the ground...then I would really do a number on it.  Sunday was a better day, today, not at all.

I spent all last night making these effing cookies.  I love to bake, really love to bake. And I'm good at it.  it has always been something I do for fun and to make other people happy (along with myself)  I have send treats into every single kids party for as long as I can remember.  (Cooking dinner?  not so good.)

I needed to make 12 dozen cookies for 3 kids wanting 3 different kinds.  Their Vday party was snowed out last week and resched for tomorrow.  Last night I was going to get it done.  I got all the dough made was was in the refrid. then as I was cleaning up I noted the measuring cup I was using as a 1 cup measure said 2/3rd s cup?  What the?  I asked my ex to bring the the nice stainless steal measuring I got from our wedding, instead he brought me these cheap azz ones I bought at the dollar for measuring our dog food.  it was all I had last night so (after running through the dishwasher I used them.)  Apparently the 1 cup measure is still in the dog food container!  I cried then.  Then I went the the all night store 30 miles away and bought more ingredients.  I made more dough last night and at 2:30 am I decided I was too spent to keep going and stuck it in the fridge.

this morning i went to bake my cookies.  Burned the first batch, burned the second back.  undercooked the next batch.  Over and over, apparently this oven in my apartment is pretty cheap and has no heat control.  I burned over 1/2 of the second 12 dozen cookies I made.  I went back to the store after i cleared out the the snow to get more ingredients.  Finally, after trial and error, I was able to produce about 6 dozen decent ones. I packaged up all pretty in individual bags with stickers and curling ribbons and got al ready to drop off at my ex's house.  When I called him, he said don't come over, I am trying to get the kids in bed, they haven't had school in 6 days and it's too late.  Fine I said, I'll just drop off on the front porch.  His text back, "no, I have someone coming over to watch a movie with me."  WHAT?  I texted back, who is coming over to watch a movie with you?  the answer "none of your damn business".  Ok, so I pretty much know what that means.  I know he is seeing other people.  I know he slept with another woman the day he served me with divorce papers.  (I also know that I blame myself for our divorce and I still love him and hate myself.)  My issue with this is that he is bringing his girlfriend over to watch a movie while my kids are in the house?!?

when you go through a divorce, both parents have to attend a parenting class.  One of the first "laws" is that you NEVER introduce your kids to anyone you are dating or having a potential relationship with until the divorce is final and the emotional situation is stable.  ever, ever, EVER.  Our divorce is nowhere near final and our situation is far from allowing emotional stability for our children.  This girlfriend of his is an old friend from the town he grew up in.  I know her, I went to her 40th birthday party, she went to my ex's 40th party at my house.  Her ex had an affair on her and she left him, no questions asked.  yet, she is sleeping with my still husband (likely in my bed I received for my 30th birthday and he isn't giving me).  Also for the record, he made jokes that her husband left he because of how she looked and that  she was going to have trouble finding a man because she was so "unatractive" (and that is not the word he used.)  I dont' know if I am naive or old-fashioned, but I would never get involved with a man that just filed for divorce especially if I knew his wife.  I would think after she was on the other side of things, she would be more sensitive.  I know that technically when you file for divorce that the marriage is over.  I get that.  But I do think people should have respect and etiquette.

This respect and etiquette comes down to her coming over to my former home when my kids are there.  Ex tells me that he introduced her to the kids as his 'friend" and that there are no displays of affection.  I don't care, my kids are very smart.  He seems to think that because she is a former friend that that makes this ok, exempts him from following the rules because she's not just someone he started dating from online or met in a bar.  I think no matter where you met, the same rules apply, you don't bring someone from a relationship around the kids.  My kids had never met her before, it doesn't matter to them if he knew her from his youth.  My husband has never had a female friend come over the the house alone before, this is unprecendented.  My kids are very intuitive, and even if they weren't, it's pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together and figure out that daddy has a girlfriend.

He says they don't get intimate when the kids are around.  I can be they are getting intimate on the sofa downstairs when they are sleeping though.  I am really concerned that the kids are going to wake up and come downstairs to find them messing around.  Ugh, just he thought of him with another women, on my sofa, in my bed, with my kids in the house makes me way to cry and get sick at the same time.

I emailed my attorney.  She told me regardless of their previous friendship, this is not apppriate.  She told me tactfully  write it out and send an email to guardian ad litem appointed by the court for the children.  I know he will BS the guardian and make me out to sound like the crazy person that is making a big deal out of nothing, that they are "just friends"  (despite what he admitted to me) and since I am lonely and depressed I am trying to do whatever I can to pathetically draw the attention away from me and my issues.  I can hear it right now.  I only hope the guardian can see through his BS. That would be the only positive of this situation, if the guardian can read through him and help the guardian to see what kind of manipulation  I am trying to steer my way around.

I just cant' stop crying right now and I am having one of those"it's not fair" moments.  it's not fair, but I know that life is not fair.  I know that, I really do.  But is still isn't fair.  I try so hard to be positive and make my way though but I just feel like I can't keep going through this anymore.  I don't know why I have everything wrong with me, why I am so sick, why everyone in my family is so healthy and I someone got the genes from the bottom of the proverbial barrell.  My brother runs Ironmans, I can't run up a flight of stairs.  i look so healthy, it is something I fight everyday.  people always think I am making it up or I can't possibly be as sick as I make myself out to be.  I  wouldn't wish a visible illness (or any illness) on anyone, but at least when it is visible people empathize and try to help out.  when you look healthy, people question you and believe it must a psychological and think you want attention.

I'm sorry, I need to stop the poor little old me complaining.  I'm really usually not like this.  I vent it all on you folks because I don't know who else to vent it to.  i was going to go to a support group tonight but ended up cancelling because I thought finishing the cookies and bringing them over to see the kids for even a minute would be better support than group therapy for me right now.  I was wrong.  I should have just forgotten the cookies and gone.

You know what hurts the most?  You know what I have the most regrets over?  I still love him.  I'm sorry, I do, I still love him.  if he were willing to say I accept your apology and I will take you back, I would do it in a heartbeat.  I know that I ruined our marriage.  I know that I am at fault  It hurts me so much.   I wish I could blame him, but I can't.  I blame myself 100%  I wish I could blame him, but the bottom line is I blame me.  I don't hate hime at all, I hate myself.  He says I am in denial, but I don't know how much more accepting of blame I could be?  I have told him this over and over.  I do blame him for how he is treating me now, but he says it is in reponse to how I treated him.  Maybe he is right.  he tells me over and over again that my kids don't need me, that everyone would be better off if I just went away.   I tell myself that it can't be true. I hope to God that isn't true.  My kids need a mom.  He said he do it all on his own., and it is better that way.  I still think they need a mom.  I hope they need a mom.  He said I can be replaced by a better mom.  I don't want to be replaced.

this is why on last week I said I needed a break from him.  that I need to stop interacting with him because it hurts so so so much.  It hurts my bones.  I thought Rheumatoid arthritis hurt, but it is nothing compared to how much I hurt right now.  The only way I can see my kids is though him  I don't know what the answer is.  Maybe I should take a break and do everything I can right now to avoid him (and unfortunately my kids) until I am better emotionally.  I just feel like I have lost so much with my kids so far, I don't want to lose more.  But I don't want to lose me right now, and that is the direction I am heading.  I need some self-esteem.  I have none anymore, I used to.  In the past I had a little bit.  Now I have none and I scramble and flounder everywhere making poor decisions and loving a man that hates me.   I even know he hates me, I just blame myself so much that I can't hate him, or blame him or hold anything against him; I just want him to love me back.

I am so sorry MH.  I am sorry you had to read this.  I am sorry for ruining your night and subjecting you to my issues.  I will try to be better tomorrow.  I just can't be better right now.  I was planning on jumping on Thursday.  I only have few boxes of patches left and now is the time.  I am scared everyone.  I am so scared of jumping,  i am scared of my emotions, I am scared of my future, I am scared of falling.

I want to be happy.   I want to be loved.  I want to love myself.

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1742220 tn?1331356727
by meegWpaw, Feb 18, 2014
Oh Heidi, oh baby I feel SO bad reading this I cant see the screen bc I am crying.  I love you sister, know what I can identify to about 90 percent of what you said!   Heidi this time is for you to heal.  I know I used to get mad when ppl told me that but its true.  you need to be selfish take this time and build yourself back up.  You ARE loved, you are going to be loved and be in a kind and caring fulfilling relationship with a man again!  you need time.  you really need to cut yourself a HUGE amount of slack and take some time.

Breathe.  let yourself cry and hurt but breathe.  I am so sorry you have to go through this.  I am right there with you I so understand what its like and how it feels and how hurtful it is and how crazy you feel when you find out stuff like that and how horrible it is when there is really nothing you can do, and no outlet for your feelings that is gratifying.  I know Heidi.  I understand.  you just have to feel it and then hopefully let it go.

God I wish I could just banish the thoughts from your head that ANYTHING your ex is saying has a grain of truth!  Fock him!!!!  Heidi he is not in his right mind now you know bc of how he is acting towards and with you and around your Kids!!!!  He has given up a beautiful and gorgeous amazing lady!!!!!  he is not thinking!!!!!!!  he has issues of his own he is going through.  it is not

I HATE the things he is saying about you and to you and how he is making you feel!  none of it is true!  YOU are responsible for the end of the marriage??? HOGWASH!!!!!!  two people are responsible Heidi.  50 / 50 ok?  you get to keep your half of the blame and he gets to keep his.  he never gets to give that up.

NOBODY would be better without you, most especially YOUR children!  what the hell does he know?  your children need and love their mommy.  I am certain of it.

I understand that you still love him honey.  It is normal.  it is the way it Should be!!!!  you were with this man for a long time.  You have feelings.  Of course!  he is the one who is acting abnormal!  don't beat yourself up and feel shameful.  you should be proud that you are loyal and have kind and caring emotions towards this man.  this man who would be Lucky to have you with your tenderness and concern!   eventually Heidi whatever should happen will happen, and if need be you will let go ... only when the time is right.  Feel your feelings.  No hurry.

PLEASE stop feeling bad about yourself.  it is normal to have low self esteem when your gong thru a marriage.  Ok so you have low self esteem and now you are mad at yourself bc you have it?   just let yourself have your feelings Heidi you are being WAY too hard on yourself.

You are loved, mama.  you will be happy soon.  I see you being happy here alls the time!!!!!! ya!! its true.  Meegy sees you!!!!!

you will love yourself again.  maybe in the next minute!!

I love you!

here for you



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by ThePhoenix75, Feb 19, 2014
thank you Meegy.  

I love you honey.  i want so much to be happy right now,  I will again, someday
Mostly I am really really good at faking it.
you know how they say "fake it til you make it"?  that is me.
I am happy on here sometimes, some things make me smile and laugh
I am happy when I can help others with their problems and not deal with my own-
I think a lot of us on  here are like that

thank you Meegy for always being there for me, no matter how bad I feel you always make me feel a litter bit better.  Loved somehow.

I love you, Heidi


the hardest part is that I miss my kids so so so so much.
so much  I literally feel the pain in my arms from not holding them
the pain in my heart from not being with them
the pain in my soul for not being there for them

the only way I can regain my children is through my husband
I need to take every moment I can get with them, because if I don't, he will tell the courts that I was avoiding them
that he gave me opportunities to rebuild with them and I refused-
I feel trapped
to regain my kids I have to go through him
and it hurts so, so, so much
I have to keep seeing him, dealing with him, talking with him
and I don't want to.
I want my babies, I don't want to lose them  he has already painted me as the "absentee mother" -
that never made an effort to parent her children (and that I don't agree with; not at all)
but it doesn't matter what I say
I am just a physically disabled / handicapped, over medicated, emotionally unstable, severely depressed woman that sits around and pops pills for fun rather than dealing with her kids.  (and I don't agree with that either)
he however is a fine upstanding gainfully employed attorney that has never made a mistake in his life
to avoid him at any point to stop seeing my kids would give him further ammunition to use against me.
I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.
I will do whatever I can to see them, and get them , and hold them but I need strength to be able to deal with him

1742220 tn?1331356727
by meegWpaw, Feb 19, 2014
take care of yourself Heidi and do all you can to be good to you and nurture yourself.  we will love you too!  and when you see him, try to be strong.  focus on your children when you are around him, not on him.  YOU know you are an excellent mother.  don't let him tell you what isn't true.  don't take on his definition of you.  you know what he says is wrong.  i am so sorry for your pain.  i can only imagine what it must feel like.

care for yourself and love yourself so you will be strong when you need to deal with him.  try not to worry about the things  you cant control.

i know it is hard.  you are doing great!

i have so much faith in you.

i love you!


Avatar universal
by msdelight, Feb 19, 2014
Quick thoughts at 230 am. Are you sure these two slime buckets didn't hook up BEFORE the two of you split? He was in a pretty big hurry to write you out of the kids and his life? Also, he seems to have you convinced that its ALL your fault. It takes 2 to tango and rarely is one person alone responsible. He is a damn bully making YOU leave. He's ****** around and you're the bad guy. Okay.  Sure. SOB. Copy those texts and show them to the lady.

Um glad you baked the cookies. I hope they reached their destination but its the thought that counts. He wants to keep you fragile and using so you look bad. DON'T FEED IN. Be stong my love. You don't need that kind of love. Let it go. So they are doing the wild thing in your house? Find a way and use it to snatch those kids and that house back!

Love you gf. Must go to bed. Hang in and well talk more tomorrow.  Love,  MsD

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by dominosarah, Feb 19, 2014
You didnt ruin my night,  you dont have that much power~

You didnt single handidly ruin your marriage, you dont have that much power~

As long as you keep taking all the blame he will continue with his mental abuse.  His so called moving on with a friend is his way of not dealing with the pain he is feeling due to his failures.  This relationship wont last.  

I hope after some time has passed you will see this for what it is.  You will be able to take responsibility for YOUR part in the breakdown of your marriage.  Right now you are trying to get thru this but it is too overwhelming for you as you have placed all of this on your shoulders.  I am speaking from experience here.  Divorce is like a death as we do go thru a grief process.  Just keep venting as this is very healing for you~

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by ThePhoenix75, Feb 19, 2014
Thank you ms. D--I am honestly gave no idea if he was effing around before the marriage broke up.  I never thought so but now I am not so sure.  I always thought he was an honorable man that followed the rules until I got a taste of his rule breaking tonight.  I am truly shocked he would do that.  I knew he was effing around lately and I ways said don't you SARS bring someone around my kids.  He always said I know better Heidi, I wouldn't do that.  Then to find out he is doing it anyway.  He is an attorney, he is appointed as a guardian ad litem for hundreds of kids on behalf of their families.  He knows what is in the best interest of the kids.  He is deluding himself into thinking that just because he knew this woman previously, that makes it ok.  The kids never knew her previously!  She is no different than a girl he could meet in a bar and bring home.  Ugh.
The old me would have list control and done something stupid.  The new me waited til I got off the phone, then lost control.  Then regained it and sent an email to my attorney and also to the appointed guardian advising them of the situation.  I hope the guardian sees through his bs and this marks his white image.

6815927 tn?1395511425
by ThePhoenix75, Feb 19, 2014
Thank you Sara.  You are right.  I don't have as much power as I think I do.  He claims I manipulated him for the past 16 years with my illnesses and used then to guilt him into staying with me.  I have always felt like that was an excuse.  I take the blame for many many many things, but that isn't one of them.
I hope you are right about his reasoning for moving on.  Regardless, I find comfort in your words.
Thank you for giving me an outlet to vent.  I need it.  I have a lot of healing to do.

6815927 tn?1395511425
by ThePhoenix75, Feb 19, 2014
Btw, please excuse my typing errors.  Autocorrect makes me look like a drunken idiot. Never catch til after I post...

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by jugglin, Feb 19, 2014
Sweet Heidi -
You come on here and vent away, write away, cry away any time you need to.  We are here because WE CARE about YOU.  We read and respond because WE CARE about YOU.
I can't say it better than Meeg, MsD, Sara, or anybody alone did not destroy your marriage. Marriages fall apart every day, never because of one person.  People also stay married every day in spite of health (mental/physical) issues.  There will be a day that comes that you will see he is not the man he once was, the man that earned your love and respect.  His actions and behaviors and his horrible words will show you who he really is.  You will grieve your marriage and the loss of the man you once knew...but not THIS man.  Married or not...your health/behavior over the years, MAN should speak to or treat ANY woman, much less the mother of his children in the manner he speaks to you or treats you.  His words and actions will lose their power over you when you start to see this and grieve.
Do not allow this man's behavior to have power over your time with your kids.  By this, I mean do not avoid your babies because you want to avoid him.  YOUR KIDS NEED YOU...THEY LOVE YOU.  When you have to deal with him in order to see your kids, breathe deeply, meditate, remember how it feels to hug them, snuggle with them, brush hair with them.  Read these journals and remind yourself how you ache without them and then deal with him in the most pleasant manner EVER..he won't see it coming. :)  Fake it til you make it when you deal with him...don't show him the power he has over you.  Then you can come vent to us about it.
We will be here when you jump.  We aren't going anywhere.  Distract your brain.  Sign up for another event to go out and meet people.  Go to the library.  Go to a meeting.  Go to the Buddha church (sorry, I can't remember what it is called, I want to say a temple). The more you interact with others the less you will be in your head, alone, feeling his words sting your soul.  Fill your soul with positive.  Is there an RA support group?  When you interact with others, you will start to realize that people like you, they value you, they listen to you.  In turn, you will feel better about who you are instead of letting "him" beat you down and feel worthless.  
I am SOOO rambling now, sorry about that.  I just feel so passionate about wanting you to heal and move forward.  You are  beautiful soul and you deserve to find inner strength and peace...and to be HAPPY!

Avatar universal
by weaver71, Feb 19, 2014
It takes two to Tango and it takes more than one to raise children, ask any single parent who isn't being rude. It takes a village to raise an individual. If he keeps you away from them, they will crave your affection and rebel against him to see you. That's what I did. My dad is an azz, yet my mother never explained why she left him. I was so mad that my mom didn't want me around him that I ended up living with him. I made her life hell until she let me see him. Then I learned the truth and lived on my own at about 14, by 16 I completely ignored both my parents and had my own appartment. It only took so long because I couldn't legally work and sign a contract till 16. My point is, had my dad been honest about his addictions and my mom had been honest about why he didn't live with us anymore would have made my choices very different. Children need more than one guardian, I think you are so right on that. I think if you are honest with yourself, your kids, and everyone else, the kids will hunt you down to get that love they are needing from you. It doesn't matter who's fault it is to kids, they have love for their parents no matter what. I don't want to even sleek to my father, haven't in 3 years, but I still love him. If he was working on himself and becoming a better person in ways I could see over time, I'd forgive him and there is a lot to forgive. Be the you your dogs love, be the you that you want your kids to know, keep growing and all these details will fall into place. I'm not saying it will not hurt, but the hurt will have value and you will heal. Let this pain encourage you to be better, not to give up. You've already given up enough, show your kids that you are working on being the best you there is. I think I was sober almost a year before my family believed I was gonna change. So what's a year, my kids know I live them and they love me back, that was a goal worth fighting for.

5986700 tn?1380791380
by spider6, Feb 19, 2014
Great post and advice everyone.  Heidi, they've said it all hon.  You're in no position to see this clearly at the moment.  Be kind to yourself and focus on healing.  The light always exposes the vermin.

973741 tn?1342342773
by specialmom, Feb 19, 2014
Such wise things have been said already. I just want to say that I'm very sorry that you are hurting.  You are taking so much upon yourself.  Such guilt weighs so much.  But as said, this wasn't just you.  Your husband also participated in the demise of things.  And he is using words to hurt you now in a very unfair way.  I wish you strength and am sending you hugs.  peace

1580318 tn?1550254481
by Shannon79, Feb 19, 2014
I don't really know you, phoenix. But I read your journal. I can't really say anything else that hasn't been said by these lovely people already have. But I just wanted to say that you need to stay strong for your kids sake. Forget what he thinks. He has belittled you for far too long, and it's time to take your life back! You need to show your kids how strong and resilient you are. They need to know their mom hasn't give up on them.

And if he blames your marriage problems on your health, that's just a cop out. He said vows to you. And some of those words are "in sickness and in health". So you CANNOT take all the blame for your marriage falling apart.

I agree with whoever said that when you see your kids with him, be strong. Just smile at him. Don't give him that power to ruin you

6538759 tn?1386250196
by Kbusymom, Feb 19, 2014
So sorry you are going through all of this.  Your ex sounds incredibly manipulative and he's definitely trying to keep your self esteem down with all of his insults/ verbal abuse.  I know it's easier said than done, but don't let him get to you.  This is how bullies control others.  
Your kids will always need and love you as their mother, no matter what.  My mom was severely mentally ill, caused so many problems for me in my life and I still loved her.  The parent/child bond is unconditional.  
Stay strong; you are doing so well- very proud of you.  Sending prayers...

Avatar universal
by hlpplse, Feb 19, 2014
Phoenix I have been there Sister and it was heartbreaking at the time...but now when I see my EX I think WTF was I thinking and I Vomit in My Mouth!!!!

Take pitty on that woman because he will cheat on her and leave or she will do the same.

Just Thank God for your beautiful Children and know that You are Wonderful with or without somebody in your life<  I saw your picture and you are a Hot Mama, when you are ready you will find someone... Seriously YOU DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THAT A HOLE!!!!! And don't feel bad about the cookies those memories that you are creating with your kids are precious:))) XXOO

Avatar universal
by hlpplse, Feb 19, 2014
Oh and did I say that he is a MAJOR A HOLE!!!!

134578 tn?1614729226
by AnnieBrooke, Feb 19, 2014
I like the idea of seeing your ex and thinking WTF were you thinking.  It will get there.  Hang in, honey.

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by Godisfaithful, Feb 19, 2014
Hi, I don't know you but I read your journey. No matter how you are treated by anyone, you are special. God sees you and say you are special. I understand how it feels to love someone that disrespects you. I know what it feels like when you feel you're at fault. Not to make excuses, even if you were at fault, forgive yourself. The fact that you are God's creation is reason to love yourself. God makes no mistakes. Don't listen to his hurtful words. You don't deserve that. Stop blaming yourself. My prayer is for you to see yourself as someone that is already loved. From the post from others is proof that others care. Receive God's love for you. I did and it was the best thing I've ever done. I rarely look down on myself. The very few times I do, God always remind me of His love for me and it goes away. Peace and blessings to you.

695104 tn?1442193588
by calamfred, Feb 20, 2014
Hi girl,
You already know how I feel...and all of the awesome mh people who have replied above to you only reiterate what you and I have talked about. I also think my "Mission Impossible" idea of you getting a mini cassette recorder and taping phone and or any conversations with him might actually not be a bad idea...even tho it sounded a lil "toony" Just to have tangible proof that "Mr. Wonderful"...Well, isn't!
Please please, please don't give him the power to make you feel "less than". I know lots of things are easier said than done..but we all know people who are cruel and try to tear others down only do it because they don't feel good about themselves. Let that be his problem, and not put it on you. Trust me hon, mom to mom...your kiddoes absolutely need you..and they love you. And as Weaver said (Dr Phil, too) your kids will know that your stbx is trying to keep you from them..and it may be months or years down the road, but they will resent him for that. You just concentrate on being the best you can be, and you will be their support..when they're older, and making their own decisions, they will absolutely recall how things were..and recall that their mom was in it for them, and their best interest. I know this from bio dad "dug his own hole" and my brother and I knew he did..and that our mom loved us. It all comes back around eventually.
Sure you still feel love for him..I think it's love for what was...not for what takes time to work thru things..and its doubly hard as you're working on being med free. You need to give yourself a break, ma'am.
I don't want to spend any more of our valuable time talking about him. Let's focus on you. And what needs to happen for you to take care of you right now. That wise old saying is so true: you can't help others without helping yourself first.
So keep seeing your therapist, go to your support groups, hang out with your new friend, and keep on reaching out for support and giving support here, like you've already been doing.
Healing hugs, and message me anytime,

6815927 tn?1395511425
by ThePhoenix75, Feb 20, 2014
Thank you everybody.  I appreciate your help, I am still around just kinda gloomy...

1742220 tn?1331356727
by meegWpaw, Feb 20, 2014
well thank goodness youre here!  im around if you want to talk.


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by jugglin, Feb 20, 2014
Been worried about u Sweet Heidi.  Let me know if I can do anything for you. Miss you girl - not the same without u around!  Love you girl!

647911 tn?1373314647
by nic374, Feb 20, 2014
I had the exact same thing happen to me my husband divorced me for another lady too. I have 4 kids my advice, let it go with him show no emotion towards him with any of your feelings get on a sex site have fun when y don't have the kids with u. That's exactly what I did and it helped thru

647911 tn?1373314647
by nic374, Feb 20, 2014
Believe me when he realizes y have entered a certain lifestyle with swingers etc, and eventually he will know and he will be curious himself and he won't want to sit there with some clingy chick. And then y know y got the upper hand at that point but discreet with it until the times right with him

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