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Where does admiration end and attraction starts? (HOCD/OCD/Maladaptive Daydreaming)

Nov 06, 2015 - 1 comments





Maladaptive Daydreaming








Gay Hocd

I'll point this out first: I have HOCD. (Which stands for obsessive compulsive disorder centered around your sexual orientation)

So okay, now that I stated the bottom-line issue here, I'll keep writing my seek for reassurance. (Yeah, this never works, but I just need to know!)

This is such a complicated thing for me to talk about because there's just so much... but I'll try to resume it:

-I'm a 16 year-old girl, by the way.-

1) I've never had any type of experience with guys. I've barely been three foot away from one! (My dad and I didn't had an emotional relationship, so I guess that plays a part in my first impression of men?) But I definitely had (and have) romantic feelings for them. Just not much to back it up, only daydreams. :/

2) I didn't knew I had OCD since childhood because it wasn't as severe as now, so I thought HOCD started it all... but no. Since last year, when I started worrying about this, I've developed more OCD themes than just an orientation doubt.

3) Before I had bad HOCD I used to be a hardcore Swiftie (Taylor Swift fan), I had several good friends and I used to strongly admire Victoria's Secret angels.

4) My family is passionately catholic, passionately righteous and passionately homophobic... so with all my embarrassment; I grew up kinda making fun of LGBT people (and being a bit racist as well) but a few years ago I thankfully opened my eyes and became an outspoken supporter of everyone's life choices (as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, obviously) and threw judgment away. I used to fight my mom about how mediocre her opinions were and I tried to make her see with all the strength I could catch that she can't hide behind God for being such an *******. ...But I still had history of being blinded by all that ish, so when I saw girls saying "I love you" or "baby" to one another and also being kinda touchy, I was very weird-out. In other ways, I grew up with the same stigma boys have about showing same sex affection.

5) I thought acknowledging a girl's attractiveness was pretty weird, but I liked watching the Victoria's Secret fashion show because I thought those girls' poise were amazing and I wanted to be inspired by them in every way I could. But when my mom came into my room I had to switch tabs in my computer so she didn't thought wrong. Also I always admired Vanessa Hudgens but I thought it was very weird how she called her friends "gorgeous" and "love", held their hands, took pictures with them falsely kissing, had "romantic dinners" with them, etc. I thought realizing someone of the same sex was in fact attractive was seriously not normal... until I saw Jenna Marble's (Youtuber) video called "Girl Crushes" and everything became clearer and my stupidity was thankfully washed away by her and the comments on that video. So yeah, I stopped being so closed-minded and even talked about how cool and inspirational Miranda Kerr, Taylor Swift, Karlie Kloss and Candice Swanepoel were to my mom. No biggie.

I also really wished I had a (girl) friend I could learn from and had pajama parties with, do girly stuff with... (because I haven't had an actual friend for almost four years).

6) This is strongly embarrassing for me... but I want to keep it real. I was a very curious girl growing up, especially sexually, so when I was like eleven years old and I was waiting for my school bus to pick me up and my mom wasn't home because she was working, I would go to my computer and search smutty things in YouTube. I stumbled upon videos of lesbians passionately kissing which turned me on (thought I didn't knew at the time) but that was it. I didn't want to do any of that, but it was wrong for the innocent girl I was supposed to be, so it was exciting. Then when I was 13 I started watching actual porn and there was a period I would only watch from the lesbian category. Did I thought "Hmm, what if I'm not straight?" while watching it? Yeah, but I could easily shrugged off because I couldn't picture (nor I wanted to) myself doing those things. I also was more turned on by the fact that those girls' were turned on and I finally knew how it felt, not by the things they were doing to her or who was provoking it.

Still because I was just starting my teenhood; I was, ya know, developing. And so were my friends, so I would sorta stare at their boobs...? Until I realized all girls have an unconscious competition with size around that age and I also catched them doing the same to me.

Another thing to point out is that I LOVE paranormal/romantic/erotic novels... I won't deny that.

Needless to say, I had crushes on guys at the time... and was truly in love with one (I'll talk about that later).

7) I have "Maladaptive Daydreaming Disorder" (which means I pretty much have an unhealthy addiction to daydreaming) and so I have this "alter-ego" that's an improved version of myself in my alternate reality. She's perfect. She could put Aphrodite to shame. She has the body of an "innocent" Hentai/Anime girl (without the extremely exaggerated boobs though) and yeah, I freaking have (...and had) a high libido, so I have lots of sexual fantasies. In this process, I had to learn what guys liked in a girl so I could grab the best and internalize it into "her"... She also always end up being some type of magical creature so unrealistic expectations would make sense somehow.

Even though I was a huge daydreamer growing up, I started doing it unhealthily at age 12-13 and it began with the end of one of my favorite books called "A Hunger Like No Other" by Kresley Cole which is basically an adult version of Beauty and the Beast. I loved the idea of having a 1500 year-old werewolf as your soulmate/boyfriend/lover/king/husband/protector... but the main female protagonist was pretty young (well, a 75 year-old immortal) shy, sensitive, inexperienced and ethereal, which at that time I could relate with.

But I ended up doing that my identity.

A year ago I read the book "Lolita", I learned about DD/LG and Daddy Kink with WeHeartIt and Tumblr and started listening to Lana del Rey's songs a lot, which I just felt it resonated with me so strongly. I've always liked older men, I like the idea of diving dangerously into a relationship with a frowned upon age gap, I like being "pure" but also corrupted... and the idea of being "hidden" from reality by that men who has the upper hand with you, and you wouldn't want it any other way. I like intensity. And when I found out about "nymphets" and such, I just thought: "Oh, so that was it all along!"

But my alter-ego being all that and unrealistically perfect, I had to see lots of things through a "men's perspective" while I was daydreaming or writing fanfiction... and doing that, I also got physically responsive.
But it never happened away from my daydreams without me consciously switching to the "second perspective". Until HOCD, obviously.

8) My need for intensity trained my brain with lots of things... and my inexperience with guys unfortunately left lots of blank spaces in that aspect. So usually my alter-ego blushes a lot and she has these bambi eyes and puffed red lips which drives my alternate lover crazy and very impulsive. Now with HOCD, when I see a girl who resembles the way I want to look, my brain makes me think I want to "get a taste of that" instead of the truth, which is: I want to have that so guys want to get a taste of me.
But still... so much intrusive thoughts!

And there comes the thing I'm most freaked out about; now when I see a girl that looks the way I crave to look, I get turned on without switching to the "men's perspective". But still, in the end, the "men's perspective" is... me.

And being addicted to daydreaming, I've done it 98% of the day, everyday, for these last four years.

I just think I effed my brain up.

-I'll guess what you're thinking about me:

1) "You're too young to be this 'stained'! But don't worry, you'll mature eventually." (I'm used to that "ugh" look adults give me. No, I don't go around screaming my "dark side" to everyone, but I'm simply what you would call naive... In very aspect. Oh, well. :/)

2) "Why don't you just experience to get the freaking answer?!" (First, reassurance never actually works with OCD. Honestly? If I try to convince myself I'm not straight, my mind will tell me I am, It happens the other way too. The more certain we try to be, the more uncertainty our brain will throw at us. Second, I don't want to have lesbian experiences! {Shut up, brain.} Third, I won't get a boyfriend just because I need one the way I need jelly for my bread, I can't just go and buy one at the supermarket. I'm old-fashioned.)

3) "If daydreaming is the problem, why don't you stop?"
(Ding ding ding! Yes. If I didn't daydream, I wouldn't need to study and focus on girls attractiveness and this worry would definitely be left behind, which should be enough reassurance for me, right?... But nah! That's OCD for you.
I could. Is not that easy though, because I can't really control my daydreams the way normal people do, but I could try... and my struggles would become easier with time. But I need it. I can't explain it, but my alternate life is the only thing that keeps me going in my crappy, boring life. It's my only source of happiness and hope, Is the only way I can feel, It's the reason I know who I am and I haven't killed myself yet (keeping it real). My childhood was not sunshine and rainbows. My current life is like a confusing black and white mute foreign indie movie in slow motion with its primarily focus on melancholy... wait, no, that would technically be art and somewhat beautiful.

My life is a cold prison.

And the only way I'm able to see more than gray and not become a living zombie with absolutely no hope in achieving happiness while being nonchalant in death's face isn't really feeling like a sexy, sweet, charming and somewhat bad-*** goddess in my head... but the fuel for those categories, which is love. And the one who contains that fuel is my "imaginary boyfriend" or alternate husband... which is my celebrity crush.

I am truly in love with him.

I don't want to be in a relationship with anybody but him. I rather die completely inexperienced than to "slowly overcome" him and develop feelings for someone else. I don't want to "check out" any other man. I don't want to think about anyone else. I don't want to have my first kiss with someone else. Just him.

I hold strong values (If anyone reading this is into Typology, my MBTI is INFP, my Enneagram is 4w5 sx/so, my astrology sign is Pisces {born in the Pisces/Aries cusp} and my life path in Numerology is 7. Now you can understand my madness better!) and I will fight for those motherf- until my last breath. I did lots of vows to myself in the past and I used to be extremely scared of losing my identity (that's one of the reasons HOCD stroked gold with me) and I simply couldn't (can't) imagine not yearning for my celebrity crush's love... wanting to be enough for him, finding refuge in his arms and heaven in his kiss. I mean, who am I? What do I do with my life if it isn't to find a way to his heart and feel like "the chosen one"? (Ha, my 4ness is showing)

No, I'm not the crazy fan who will plan on kidnapping him, I truly care about him. I just want him in my life... even just as a friend.

He's all I know. When I found him, I found myself. Everything I am is tied-up to those hazel eyes. This is my journey and he's my home.

Also, me being a hopeless romantic bookworm, I've always been fascinated by evil getting in the way of love and when a couple in a book or movie are possessed by this thing that forced them to hurt their soulmate... they fought it. They fought. They fought so hard for their heart that they won. Love won.

I always wanted to have those type of apocalyptical adventures... BUT NOT THIS WAY! Damn, it's true when they say: "Be careful what you wish for."

So if I stop daydreaming, I will become a cookie-cutter person by this reality. I will be one of those damned souls that state "life isn't a fairytale" and only care about money and power. All my values will be lost, all magic will be vanished.

I really don't want that.

And I know y'all don't believe me because...
"How could I love someone I never met?"
"How could I possibly plan to make a (celebrity) person fall in love with me just because of my ideals?"
"How could I be truly in love with him if I fear so much to stop loving him?"
"Why do I have an obsession about whether I'm straight or not if I know I love him?"

Thank you very much, I try to block that shi- out.

"You're going to end up living in the streets." I've been told.
"You'll end up in a psychiatric." My mom's working on it! ;)
"You'll die young." Tell me something I don't know.


So what's the point of this post and my question?

1) I kinda want to remain locked in my room and feeling twenty meters underground even if I'm laying in my bed, but at the same time no. I still need to plan my future (because apparently wishing your celebrity prince charming will sense your pain and come running to your first teardrop, bursting through your bedroom door in his white horse and lend you his gloved hand to save you from your strong despair, take you to his castle, love you until he can't and promise you a happily ever after... isn't a very accepted lifestyle in society. Dunno why.) and that means I ought to make friends. But my people skills are "rusty" and when I have to be around attractive females or if I feel "good vibes" (as really any human would feel around their friends or people they wish were their friends) from a girl, my OCD quickly confuses that with attraction and I run the hell away from it.

But that only puts me in a cage and make the situation a lot more scarier each time I avoid it.

2) I get intrusive thoughts with literally every female I encounter (this is how I see it's an obsession) doesn't matter if its a 5 year-old, a 10 year-old, an 18 year-old, a 40 year-old, a 60 year-old , 90 year-old, my mom, my grandma, a cartoon or even myself. My mind will try to convince me I'm falling in love with it.

3) Besides the terrifying "groinal responses", I get lots of urges. Urges to kiss my mom or literally any female I'm talking to, or to kiss myself in the mirror. And when I see a picture or a video that has a girl in it, my screwed up brain first pays attention to her lips and then I'm very aware of my lips too... and this sort of "energy" comes between that I really want to escape from (and usually do, by putting my hand over my mouth or "adjusting" my approach to the state of mind I had before HOCD, closing the thing that provoked it, etc.) but can't control it, and it seems like it forces me to get closer, even if it's to my freaking computer screen and "kiss" the girl in the video, IT SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME!

4) At first, my anxiety was really high and really bad in these situations... but I can't feel it anymore. The thoughts remain but the anxiety is gone and that scares me a lot (I know this is called the "backdoor spike" but damn, I wish I could go back to the heavy breathing, stomach aching, tear starting, heart pounding spike.) and so when I try to react negatively to the thoughts, I need to slap or scratch myself to let me know I still don't want to do any of it deep down, but I try to get a bad reaction so strongly that I end up feeling overwhelmed and sometimes my heart "skips a beat" as a substitute for the absent anxiety... AND THAT'S NO BETTER AT ALL!

5) My first HOCD "spike" was thanks to the fact my mom asked me if I was lesbian in a very derogatory, angered tone because I was laughing and texting my friend a lot (ironically, we where talking about how much we loved my celebrity crush) and it went back to the time my friend was sleeping over at my house and at dinner she started talking about the time her entire family accused her of being lesbian because of a misunderstanding and how she started crying and swearing she wasn't.
Oh, the look on my mom's face...
She didn't said anything, but she believed it. She hated her ever since, she didn't wanted her near me at all.
Ironically, the accusation my mom gave me made me cry as well.

That was two years ago, when I was fourteen, and at the time I didn't defend my friend, even if I knew that's what friends are supposed to do. Knowing my mom (she's bipolar, by the way) the fact that I looked like I cared about her would reinforce her stupid conclusions. My friend was a bit mean anyway, I only had her in my life because she was the only one I could talk to about my favorite band so it was pretty easy to let her go.

I didn't worry about actually being lesbian or not, I knew I wasn't, but I started to worry that everyone thought that of me (this was my first feet dipping into Social Anxiety) and even if I went to a restaurant with my mom, I worried that everyone around us thought we were a couple. And so on.

-My first actual doubt spike was a DEMONIAC AND IDIOTIC picture I came across, titled: "Which mental disorder do you have?" based on whether or not you can see a number in a patter. I couldn't see number 5 so it suggested I had latent homosexuality.

FIRST OF ALL: 1) That's color hecking blindness. 2) Homosexuality is no mental disorder and there's no such thing as a "latent" one.

Of course it didn't made sense and of course I was quickly going through my past to find something to back it up, but found nothing. Still, I was drowning in panic.
(I was very into "subconscious mind" psychological tests and believed wholeheartedly in them, so yeah.)

At the time (well, this was last year) I was already a firm supporter of gay rights and became one of those internet fighters against homophobia. I'm going to be honest here... I was actually pretty brain-washed by that. Sure I still support LGBT but not as obsessively or fanatically like I see some teens ( or *cough* Buzzfeed *cough*) do it; their endless "shipping" of straight celebrities together and their inner devil when someone has just a bit of "what if?" in them regarding if they're straight or not, they rush like fire and scream: "IT'S OK! COME OUT! LOVE IS LOVE! DON'T BE AFRAID! STOP DENYING! THIS IS YOU! THIS IS YOU! SCREAM IT FROM THE TOP OF A MOUNTAIN! GO AND KISS SOMEBODY! EMBRACE THE HECK OUT OF I!" which I know is done in good  intentions, but just a piece of advice from someone who was like that, because that ignorance was very fundamental in the developing of my HOCD hell:


Don't do it. Never do it. Don't.

If they are, they know. If they aren't, they know. If they don't, they'll know.

Don't shove your mainstream beliefs down anyone's throat.

And if you're actually from the LGBT community and talk based in your experience... also don't. You can advice, but never push. You say the truth as you see it, but it isn't the truth with capital T.

Some of those doubtful people might have HOCD instead and you have no idea how much you can hurt with misjudgment.
It really, really hurts.

Anyway, I'm getting out of topic... the way I cope with that shi- picture and the anxiety that was eating me up because my values were threatened was that I took a few breaths, cleared my mind and imagined myself kissing both genders. Of course, it felt right and natural with the guy and not with with the girl. That calmed me and I left it behind.

(Still without not knowing that picture was a scam made to scare the heck out of anyone who saw it.
...I can't believe there's people that evil in this world. It honestly hurts me.)

-My second bad spike (and the actual beginning/charge of my HOCD) was thanks to Connor Franta's (Youtuber) video of him coming out. I could go on and on about this one... (I had a crush on him, ironically.)
Let's just say he talked about having a panic attack when he was young because he thought: "What if I'm gay?" But he made it sound like the first step in homosexuality. I was like: "Oh, yeah! I had that too. Lol! ... wait." and when the video finished (he pushed my buttons with every word) I was having the worst panic attack I ever experienced. I knew it was stupid, but the fear wouldn't go away and I knew I didn't have to worry but I thought I would regret not worrying. And the strong anxiety wasn't a way of figuring that was just paranoia because he made it sound so genuinely homosexual! So as the brainwashed teen I was, the next day I started checking girls out and my reaction to them, but it would only bring me unease and sadness. But that was my downfall... I checked, I gave in to the "what if?" and now, I can't NOT check them, even if I know I don't want to.

So you get my point here.

I've been dealing with this HOCD for a year now and its been switching to other themes like Harm OCD, POCD, a bit of Transgender OCD and ROCD.

-I've had genuine romantic feelings for boys throughout my life, but I just can feel super sexually attracted to them. Maybe is just my lack of experience?

My questions are:

-How can I be friends with a girl and not think I like her?
-How can straight girls admire other girls and not clash with attraction?
-If you're straight, can you all of the sudden have romantic feeling for someone of the same sex? (Hasn't happened, but I do wish the answer is no.)
-Are you born being heterosexual/homosexual?
-Can you turn from happily straight to homosexual against your will?

I do know I have HOCD because I can always feel truly reassured after I do a compulsion and my past self always shines through this freaking demon possessing me... but you know, this is OCD.


This isn't very detailed but I somewhat covered it.

So... yeah.


Thanks for reading!  
Comments are highly appreciated. :)

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by nushisushi7, Apr 17, 2017
Hi there, I also have hocd. I've always had crushes on guys, always thought of guys as possible love interests (never girls, except now OCD tries to mess me up with that). When I was a young tween, I too had been aroused by lesbian porn and I even kissed my friend who was a girl as a dare (it was really weird, and after I did it I was weirded out, but not panicky like OCD makes us feel). However, I've never thought of girls as people I would want to be romantically involved with, even though I was confused about being aroused during lesbian porn (it turns out a lot of straight girls watch lesbian porn, and a lot of straight guys watch gay porn, so it doesn't sat a whole lot about one's sexuality). When I had my first experience with a boy it was awesome, and after that I met a boy who I eventually dated and am still dating (he's my first love). I had a friend who was a lesbian and she liked me and confessed and the boy that I would date also confessed he liked me. I was flattered by the girl and felt good about myself, but I wasn't interested in a relationship. I felt super weird when I tried to picture myself with her. However, I didn't feel weird picturing myself with the boy (or any boy for that matter). My HOCD started during my freshman year of college. My boyfriend and I go to different schools (a good 8 hours apart) but we did long distance during freshman year. I had a friend who was a girl who I grew very close to and I started to get weird thoughts that she liked me and I liked her. I was so repulsed by the thoughts I avoided her and most of my other fiends and became very depressed. I would get panic attacks every time I saw her and cried everyday, wanting to leave school so bad. Before the weird intrusive thoughts, I was never interested in her (or any girl) sexually or romantically. And when the thoughts made me think of her like that, I was repulsed. With my boyfriend, when I thought of us together it made me feel happy and excited, unlike with my friend. I think you've already answered your questions (just as I have, although OCD won't let anything go). If you wanted to be with a girl, there would be no panic, no disgust. I can tell by what you've typed that you're definitely confusing admiration and attraction, as I am also struggling with that. My HOCD targets people that are girls and that I'm close, only feeling admiration and care for them, not attraction  (I am repulsed even if I imagine cuddling with them). I've had POCD, and even sexual intrusive OCD about family members (not necessarily females, but male family members also). The OCD theme I've struggled with the most is definitely HOCD, as it attacks people in my life that I don't want to be with in a romantic or sexual way. I think it's because (whether it's HOCD, POCD, incest OCD, etc.) Your idea of love (for me, it's a man as my partner) is attacked even though you truly want to be with a man. The difference between admiration and attraction is you like spending time with a person but cannot picture romance or sexual activities with them (admiration) and a common set of ideals you have about a person (for me as a straight girl, I want someone who is very masculine with a masculine body, and of course also personality types such as funny, kind, etc.) and want to be with them romantically and sexually.I'm sure you already know this, as reading your story I can tell you already know this, so asking how do you know the difference between attraction and admiration will not help you (I too constantly tried to analyze this, finding answers helped me feel good for a brief moment, but OCD will cause you to question and stress's hard, it's gross, it's stressful and panicky, but the best thing you can do for yourself is to let the thoughts come and  go. You don't have to "accept" the thoughts with an interepretated meaning, but accept them as they and there and you're just gonna let them be until they eventually  go away. You can say "whatever" to them, internally "shrug" them off, whatever works for you. Of course this is easier said then done, and I know it's something I continue to struggle with, but it does help. If you can't see a psychiatrist or OCD-specialized / CBT therapist, I definitely suggest trying to just let the thoughts be until they go away. I hope this helps, and remember youre not alone.

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