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Founding fathers of America were not Christians.

Aug 18, 2010 - 31 comments

Notice:
This journal is in response to Islamophobic attacks on Muslims and their rights as Americans. I've come across many christians who claim that USA was founded on christianity and that there is no space for islam in this christian country.

From the hate filled Quran burning event in Gainsville to Mosque building controversy in NY, these racist, hate mongering americans need to know that this country was not founded on christianity.

I'll give you one quote from "ONE" of the founding fathers of USA as a trailer, the rest you can see in the youtube link below or research in Google.


Thomas Jefferson on Christianity:
"There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6i5zI-JYuA&feature=watch_response

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547913 tn?1317355667
by jimi1822, Aug 18, 2010
"GOD's Team" (Children With One GOD) my dear Good Brother like I said and Believe with all my heart, mind, body, soul, courage, and strength "We Are All Children Of The Same GOD" InDeed =0)

Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 18, 2010
Yes we are, I agree.

547913 tn?1317355667
by jimi1822, Aug 18, 2010
Faith, Love, prayers and light... my Good Brother =0)

377493 tn?1356502149
by adgal, Aug 18, 2010
I am not American, so I cannot comment on your journal.  But, I do have many many American friends and I hate that you feel they are bigots. Honestly, that is not the case at all.  We are all human and we all have the right to live our lives in peace.  We have the right to worship as we choose.  I live in Canada and we are also a multicultural society.  If all of us just try a little harder, we can live together in peace.  We just have to choose to look at the commonalities instead of the differences.  We can do it and we can have peace...I know we can.  

547913 tn?1317355667
by jimi1822, Aug 18, 2010
AweSome post Adgal, You have a most Wonderful gift of expression putting pen to paper, or in this case hands/ fingers to keyboard (Big Smile =0) <3 jimi <3

Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 18, 2010
adgal,

im not generalizing americans. I have many american friends myself and they are really good people, but there are them too that makes our life miserable here.



547913 tn?1317355667
by jimi1822, Aug 18, 2010
Please don't let the "few"  ruin it for the Majority!!!! Dare To Believe...!!!!

377493 tn?1356502149
by adgal, Aug 18, 2010
I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood you and I apologize.  

I think every country and every culture has those that are less then tolerant or even bigots.  It is sad, because if we all just took the time to understand and get to know one another we would have so much more in common then not.  It's politicians and radicals that start wars and violence.  The majority of us "regular citizens" just sort of get caught in the crossfire, having done nothing wrong.  All of the things flying around right now about Muslims and Islam is mainly the product of politicians using the issue to get votes (same thing here in Canada) and media blowing things out of proportion and scaring people have to death for ratings.  It's so sad.

I agree with Jimi...I too believe we all serve the same God and for the most part want the same thing.  We are all brothers and sisters.

(Thanks for the nice words Jimi, right back at you!)

547913 tn?1317355667
by jimi1822, Aug 18, 2010
=0)

203342 tn?1328737207
by April2, Aug 18, 2010
Quoting Thomas Jefferson as saying one half are fools and the other half hypocrites? Wow, what a hateful thing for him to say. Just as hateful to use it as a quote, I'm sorry.
So, which one am I then, Doad? Am I the hypocrite or the fool? Well, if I'm the fool then I'm proud to be a fool for Christ. Nothing will ever make me ashamed to call myself a Christian, which really means "follower of Christ".

There are many, many good Christian people out there, far more than the ones who "claim" to be Christians, like the ones who have hate in their hearts rather than the love of God. I'm proud to know many of them, including many from my church and other places who sacrifice their lives, their comfort and their time to travel all over the world to help the hungry, the poor, the homeless.
What about Mother Teresa who gave her life to help the poor? Was she a fool or a hypocrite?

The whole thing about the mosque was just asking them to be sensitive to the victims families and allowing them that area as a memorial. To open that mosque on the 10th anniversary, Sept. 11th is EXTREMELY insensitive, I'm sorry, no matter who they are. If it were Jewish people, or Christians, or whoever, who attacked and killed all those people that day I'd say the same thing, that it would be insensitive to build their church, temple, or whatever on that site. It doesn't help healing and bridging between religions, it drives more of a wedge and there will be more anger, distrust, fear, etc. It will make things worse, not better.

Yes, we all have rights as Americans and everyone has the right to dignity, respect and freedom. Let's just not trample on someone else's feelings just because we have that right.

Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 19, 2010
no April2

im not in support of thomas jefferson, benjamin franklin or any other who blasphemed the religion of God.
Neither you are a hypocrite or fool.

We muslims believe in all the Prophets that ever came. From Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad (peace unto all of them), etc etc all of them.
One of the pillar of our belief is belief in all these prophets, the books they brought, the angels, etc. If Jefferson called christians fools and hypocrite, that automatically includes me in it too because i follow the extension of the religion sent by same God.

The reason why i post this here because i'm hearing a lot of "This is christian country," "Christian State" etc etc because it was founded on christianity is false. The very founders of America were as you could see in the video.

Muslims are being targeted not just in NY, a mosque was burnt down in jacksonville. There were protests against building of mosque in wisconsin and many other states, there were attacks and occasional vandalism at our mosque in my city. This atmosphere against muslims and mosques is nationwide.

Besides, mosque is not being built ON or AT around Ground zero. Its being built "2 city-blocks away". How far building mosque would be considered  not sensitive?

I am not here to trample anyone's feeling. I am just as sorry for the victims and the families of the victims of this horrendous crime. Media's propaganda has become so overwhelming that it has become impossible to stand against the injustices without being accused of not being sensitive about the families of the victim.

If building mosque 2 blocks away is an issue of sensitivity of the families of the victim, then pretty soon building mosque anywhere in USA will become a sensitive issue too.

203342 tn?1328737207
by April2, Aug 19, 2010
Why are they insisting on opening it up on the 10th anniversary of 9/11? Do you not think that's insensitive? Why are they pushing this forward so fast yet they still have not completed the Freedom Tower to honor the victims? What of the other church that was crushed by one of the towers? They were just told the government will not fund them to rebuild. Explain all that, please.

203342 tn?1328737207
by April2, Aug 19, 2010
The church's name was St. Nicholas if you want to look up that story.

Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 19, 2010
Killing of innocent civilians, women, children and elderly people goes against the teachings of Quran and is considered a tremendous Sin.

majority of the world of the muslim world have spoken against what supposedly some muslims have been accused of doing (wtc attack). As for the repeated demand to hear Muslims speaking out against the radicals and their horrendous acts, I don’t think Americans are really listening for it. Just because the media haven’t shown a Muslim on the ten o’clock news denouncing his misguided brethren doesn’t mean that nothing is being said. google something like “Muslims speak out against terrorism,” and you’ll see that not only America’s Muslim communities but even major Imams in Pakistan, saudi arabia and other countries are screaming for the violence to stop and muslims committing crime in the name of Islam.



203342 tn?1328737207
by April2, Aug 19, 2010
I'm sure there are many Muslims who didn't agree with those killings. I know if I saw supposed Christians doing something evil I sure would speak out and I have (like in the case of the Westboro church from Kansas. I've spoken out against them many times. What they are doing is not Christian at all and they are not true followers of Christ, I believe).

You still didn't answer my questions, though.

Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 19, 2010
This year our Festival of Fast breaking happens to be on 9/11 coincidentally. Our islamic calendar is lunar. We did not intentionally chose 9/11 to be our festival day. last year it was different  because lunar calender is shorter than solar calendar.

I'm really not sure when is the mosque opening. I doubt it that it will open on that day and even if it does then they will be opening it with the intention of celebrating its opening with the celebration of Eid. There was a controversy over the name of the mosque (which actually it isn't, its a muslim cultural center with basketball court and culinary school with praying place on the top floor).
They even changed the name to Park 51 after the sensitivity issue over name.



Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 19, 2010
And this is the celebration of Eid (taken from a website)

Question: How is Eid al-Fitr Celebrated?
During the month of Ramadan, Muslims observe a strict fast and participate in pious activities such as charitable giving and peace-making. It is a time of intense spiritual renewal for those who observe it. At the end of Ramadan, Muslims throughout the world observe a joyous three-day celebration called Eid al-Fitr (the Festival of Fast-Breaking).


Answer: Eid al-Fitr falls on the first day of Shawwal, the month which follows Ramadan in the Islamic calendar. It is a time to give in charity to those in need, and celebrate with family and friends the completion of a month of blessings and joy.

Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 19, 2010
"Why are they pushing this forward so fast yet they still have not completed the Freedom Tower to honor the victims?"

the building of mosque has nothing to do with the building of the Freedom Tower.
Why should the world stop until that building is done?

377493 tn?1356502149
by adgal, Aug 19, 2010
Just one thing I need to point out...the gov't not funding the Church that was destroyed.  Neither is the gov't funding this Mosque, it is private money.

I am actually not pro building this Mosque.  Is it right for people to be against it?  No, its not.  The war is with the terrorists, not Islam.  But for so many this is a sensitive topic.  And in all honesty, if the Imam behind this project agreed to at least put it on hold, I do think you would see a lot of the anti Muslim sentiment calm down.  No, it's not right, but right now it is reality.  Sometimes someone has to take that first step.

As for the burning and protesting of Mosques everywhere...quite frankly that makes me quite ill.  Unfortunately there are those who do want this to be a war against Islam...but just as the terrorists are not the majority, neither are those people.  

It is so sad that it is coming to this...and yes Daod, you are correct.  Many Muslims are and have spoken out against the terrorists.  Sadly it is not often covered.  I guess it doesn't make a good enough story.

Please understand that for most this is not anti Muslim.  It is just that ground zero and the surrounding areas are sort of hallowed ground for many.  

In my opinion politicians are using this issue to stir things up and are causing the majority of the problems.  They don't seem to give much thought to whom they hurt, they just want to get votes.  Just my opinion though.

Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 19, 2010
it has nothing to do with the respect and feelings for the victims and their family. Besides many muslims died in that attack too that were in that building.

203342 tn?1328737207
by April2, Aug 19, 2010
Even if that's their festival day I don't see why they have to open the mosque on that day. Surely, if your religion really is about peace and giving to those in need, they will understand the needs of the victims families.

I still don't understand why this is being pushed forward so fast when there's a little church near the towers that was crushed and was just told the government will not help fund them to rebuild. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

I also think we should have been done building the Freedom Tower by now. All of this is only adding to the suffering of the victims families and everyone else who was affected.



Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 19, 2010
April2,
i honestly don't know when they are opening that mosque.

adgal has answered to one of your misunderstanding regarding the funding.

203342 tn?1328737207
by April2, Aug 19, 2010
I'm not even going to get into the funding. The builders of the mosque are being very secretive about where the funding is coming from to build this mosque while tax payers pay to send the Imam to the middle east. That doesn't concern anyone? We're talking $100 Million. Shouldn't we know who's funding this, especially if it's radical Muslims who support the attacks in our country?
You say you're not a radical Muslim like the ones who attacked us. Does this not concern you that they may be the very ones who are funding this and their intentions are not all good?

203342 tn?1328737207
by April2, Aug 19, 2010
Hmm, well ok. Guess I'm talking to myself now.
Well, I'm tired anyway. Goodnight, everyone.

Avatar universal
by Daod, Aug 19, 2010
tax payers pay the imam to go to the middle east?

there are 7 millions muslims in USA and they pay taxes too. I don't mind my share of taxes going there.
How much can a plane ticket be anyways? Hardly not more than $1500


it doesn't concern me whose funding. Do you really think that when the American Govt., for the sake of national security, is spending $billions to go and bomb and kill millions of people in muslim countries, isn't doing anything within this very country?

Whats there to worry about?

Be assured of Islamic Prophecy that none shall be able to destroy this (New world order) Gog and Magog power except God himself. That won't be anytime soon until after the return of Jesus (A.S).

America is safe until Jesus (A.S) returns. And it won't be muslims or Jesus (A.S) that will destroy these Gog and Magog filled countries, it will be God. Jesus(A.S) will only come to destroy the Anti-Christ and even to him Gog and Magog power will be overwhelming.


N.W.O better prepare for a war against God, thats the biggest national threat yet.






Avatar universal
by teko, Aug 19, 2010
Good morning all, I could not sleep so was surfing and saw this. I have given much much thought to this and done quite a bit of researching for truth as well. I think the whole reason that this blew up and got so many people so angry and upset is because of the misinformation that was spewed from the get go. Originally it was a mosque, at ground zero, and an inman that came with a past (too much to get into here but is all blown out of proportion as well). Then after everyone was already upset, the truth started coming out in little pieces at a time. But now since all are totally ticked they feel entitled somehow. I mean how can we not be upset about building a mosque there and how can those people truly be that insensitive and the pres backs it cause hes muslim and pelosi said something else and everything just keeps getting more inflamed as time passes.

This bothers me so, because the possibility of a Holy War is very real. From what I understand the was muslims believe is nvery much like our bible and they too believe in one god.

We have radicals that have blown up abortion clinics and killed the doctors, all the while them claiming it rightous in the name of God. Do you think if we put a baptist church where that abortion clinic used to be, we would be hearing the same rhetoric? Do you think it fair to blame all Christians because of what that man did in the name of God?

To me, that is exactly as silly as what is going on with this community center that is being erected 2 blocks away from ground zero. IMO

Avatar universal
by teko, Aug 19, 2010
I would only add, that what I post is my personal opinion and in no way invalidates the opinion of anyone else. My opinion is based on current information and of course if that information changes, I claim the right to change my views. :D

377493 tn?1356502149
by adgal, Aug 19, 2010
Good disclaimer Teko!!

There are a couple of misconceptions flying around out there.  I also couldn't sleep last night and was doing some more reading up on the subject.  Right now there is no funding in place for the Mosque.  The Imam's wife was on TV last night explaining that they have no problem showing where the funding was coming from, only they don't have it yet nor has it even been pledged.  It does seem that most will come from overseas.  The US taxpayer/gov't is not paying for any of it.  It is highly unlikely this Mosque will open in the immediate future.  It also would seem it is primarily a recreational facility.

I think everyone needs to remember something extremely important.  This war is with terrorism, not Islam.  Burning of Q'aran's and protesting Mosques in general tell me this is far more then just about this one Mosque.  I can understand the feelings against this particular location, but what the heck is going on with the rest of it?  I would be incensed if someone had a Bible burning party.  How incredibly wrong is that.  The people doing that should be ashamed of themselves...burning another religions Holy Book is not a Christian act.

203342 tn?1328737207
by April2, Aug 19, 2010
You may very well be right. This could very well play into the hands of the new world order and usher in the end times and Jesus return. I'm not sure I'd say America is safe till Jesus returns but I do believe that all who trust in him will be safe.

It's very interesting how similar we do think about some of these things.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, just searching for the truth as I'm sure everyone is.

I think we all will be watching to see how this unforlds, watching and praying.

Avatar universal
by teko, Aug 19, 2010
I agree adgal, and I fear that if we allow this to go on, we are risking our own freedom to practice our  own religion and , have our bibles burned, and not be able to build our churches where we want to. I think this is opening a can of worms that we cannot put back in the can. There is no evidence that this construction is part of any conspiracy theory with the muslims trying to take us over or throw it in our face. I no their are rumors by some to that effect, but no leg to stand on as far as fact. We Americans must be very careful of allowing fear to consume us. We will essentially end up giving our own rights away in the process of protesting someone elses. We must remember what that statue of liberty reminds us of.

Remember, in order for someone to gain rights, it would appear someone else must lose them. Just my opinion.

Avatar universal
by AmberMarie86, Aug 19, 2010
Actually Thomas Jefferson and a few of the founding fathers were "Quakers". Which is similar to Christianity.

Also this country was founded on freedom of religion. That is one of the reasons people immigrated here from Europe.

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