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Round 2 of Repeat SA

Nov 22, 2013 - 30 comments

So after waiting forever with the lab, mix up on results (she told me LAST results for this results) then got a call back saying Lab hasn't faxed over results yet.  It was nearing 2 so I called back and left another message saying I wanted to know BEFORE the closed because of last time..she called back and lab still had no faxed over results but the lady at the lab confirmed on the phone.. NO SPERM.  I don't know what to think.  The only difference is his old SA (when we actually HAD sperm) showed his PH level to be 8.3 and that labs normal is 7.2-10.0   THIS labs normal is 7.2-8.5 and Brian's ph is 9.0   I looked up PH level and low is worse than high?  I couldn't find much on the subject so if anyone can give me some insight I'd greatly appreciate it.  I'm so pissed about everything.  ALL of it.  the lab, the urologists..I'm angry that we HAD sperm before but none now..I'm ANGRY that I had hopes of IVF with ICSI but is that even an option now??  I'm just so angry!!  and upset!!! :(  

Did HE cause Brian to lose what little bit of sperm we did have??    

This IS never ending. :(
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982214 tn?1471454781
by krichar, Nov 22, 2013
Oh honey I'm so sorry :( I know nothing about that at all... But I am here if you want to scream and cry and b!tch :)

790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 22, 2013
I feel like doing it all!  I just don't understand how this could happen!!!  I cannot wrap my head around how we went from some to none WITH the help of clomid and it supposedly making what we had "better".   Thank you for trying and being here for me.  

1580318 tn?1550254481
by Shannon79, Nov 22, 2013
Ugh! How unbelievably frustrating!! Unfortunately I have no answers for you. I know nothing about that stuff.

But I am here too if you need me

4548024 tn?1590005019
by renae176, Nov 22, 2013
I would honestly get an RE to do a SA all they need is 1 sperm , i bet if u got an RE to do the test instead of your urologist , cause an RE knows he only needs one, I think they have a procedure where they go into the testies and can remove a single sperm i have heard of that, Next time u do a SA and he has even one,i would get that sample to a IVF clinic ASAP so they can freeze it, IF he had some before it will come back, maybe not many, but all he needs is one, i know its upsetting and frusturating, but if u can, wait a month or two, and do the SA again, but i would make arrangments now that if they find one sperm to get it froze right away, Like u said before he did have a small amount so that will come back and when it does u want that sample froze , then when your ready to do IVF. u know u have sperm to fertilize your eggs with, Just an idea, Keep positive Remember Derek had ZERO sperm they said he didnt even have dead ones he had nothing, 3 years ago, and it only took a year and he built it back, anything can happen, IL be thinking of you, If u need someone im here for you

961574 tn?1520648103
by mhv, Nov 22, 2013
Is his doctor offering any explanation for this?? What is his reasoning?   WTH!!!  I do not understand!!!  Girl, I am so sorry!  You know I am here for you!!!    I would think you could asperate the sperm and still do ivf with icsi.  I guess maybe you should contact a fertility clinic and see what they say, recommend.  
Des, you are a fighter!  I know you, and you will find a way to make your family possible.


4548024 tn?1590005019
by renae176, Nov 22, 2013
Then before clomid he had a few so stop the clomid see if a few come back and make sure u freeze these ones and that way, they will be there when your ready for IVF, between now and u doing IVF have a couple SAs done as soon as they get a sample with one u freeze it at an IVF clinic, it will cost a bit but at least u know that there is 1 or 2 sperm sitting there waiting , Good luck

4548024 tn?1590005019
by renae176, Nov 22, 2013
I agree with mhv contact a fertility clinic let them so a SA. a urologist is looking for a count, a fertility clinic might have better options,

2066718 tn?1431143569
by TTC2006, Nov 22, 2013
Big Hugs!  I would keep saving for your IVF, take him off the clomid, and start him on some antioxidants.  Get him to get tested again in 90 days.  Hopefully the affects of the clomid are reversible.  If he's not already on things like zinc, selenium, pycnogenol, folic acid and other vitamins and minerals good for sperm production, get him to take them for at least a couple of months.

Sperm can be regenerated.  I'm sorry that the clomid seemed to do the opposite of what it was supposed to for him.  I'm hopeful that in time the amount he had before will come back.

*hugs*

922048 tn?1387942584
by Sherri90049, Nov 22, 2013
I took Tamoxifen once (like Clomid), and it had a TERRIBLE effect on me. Clearly the Clomid didn't help your DH, but maybe it was a reasonable thing to try given the circumstances. We all feel in a rush to fix things, and the drs respond by giving us a pill. It's not always the best thing. But for some people, drugs are very helpful. I think maybe it's hard for them to know who will be helped by them and who won't. I am so sorry about this news, Des. :(

4548024 tn?1590005019
by renae176, Nov 22, 2013
as i said Derek only had dead ones now hes fine, sperm can go from nothing to good, but it did take Derek a couple months  to get his back,

4548024 tn?1590005019
by renae176, Nov 22, 2013
sorry i meant derek didnt even have dead ones, sorry for all the comments but ive been where u are. when i started TTC the first thing we found out was that derek had a zero sperm count, just trying to help, Sorry Des

790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 22, 2013
I don't understand it either.  His stupid @ss urologists (did I mention that I can't stand him???)  is out of the office until Wednesday.  Imagine that. UGH!  I'm thinking about talking to MY urologists about this.  The next dr I want him to see is the Dr at the fertility clinic.  I'm tired of messing around with urologists. I was just hoping for something, anything but we got nothing.  I'm going to just deal with this for now the best way I can...after the New Year I'll make an appointment with my urologists (need to see him anyways) and see what he thinks.  I'm going to ask his opinion about the clomid and what he thinks we should do. I LOVE my urologists!  He's very kind and caring so I think it's just best to wait and ask him.  

Shannon, tysm! It was very frustrating.  

Renae, you're right..it only takes one.  Thank you!

Mel..Thank you so much!  I've read about aspirating sperm.. I'm sure and hoping it's an option, we'll see.  I'm hoping in a couple of months (even if my urologists has to order it) we'll get another SA done and see if anything has changed.  I don't care if we have to get it done at the fertility clinic..I want to see what a couple of months shows.  



790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 22, 2013
Thanks TTC!  I'm hoping also. We stopped the clomid the day we found out the results of his last one.  I think it was around 2 weeks ago.  I'm hoping things can at least go back to what we had, it was better than nothing.  Can I get all of those vitamins in one pill? or is this something that comes separately?  

Sherri, Thank you!  I completely agree.  That's what made me so mad.  He chose to put Brian on clomid ASAP and didn't even exam him physically.  We were note even in there 10 min.  Bam..Take Clomid!    He was short with me when I went for my IC, I wasn't even in there 5 min and he said NO IC..so I got a 2nd opinion and he said yes, definitely IC.  I'm so furious with him.  I'd probably choke him if I saw him right now.  

Renae that's fine, I appreciate all the help!     Brian also doesn't even have dead ones.   What did they do for Derek or how did he come around to have some now?  

4548024 tn?1590005019
by renae176, Nov 22, 2013
They found out he had to much testosterone , so they gave him something in Jan like 3 years ago, then in april it was 17% then july 37% and then one year after getting it fixed he was at 83% i know the situation is diff, but its still the same that Derek had none and now hes fine, so it can happen for Brain to, Just be patient , trust me im one to say that, i have no patients but i honestly think between now and u doing the next SA u want a fertility clinic available to take his sperm and freeze it as soon as u get even One SA thats has 1 Sperm in it, Get the lab to transfer it to the IVF Clinic ASAP, and get those 1 or 2 spermies frozen for your IVF, I really think things will work out, but i think it might take a bit, But dont give up.

2066718 tn?1431143569
by TTC2006, Nov 22, 2013
You can get fertilaid for men, or similar, but I personally preferred to give the supplements all separate, so that I could give him the most potent doses of each that could help.  I'll PM you a list of everything I had my DH on.  He always had sperm, but his count went from 29 million to over 100 million and near 200 million in just a few months on the regime I had him on.  His counts stayed up even after he stopped all the vitamins.  

1383908 tn?1457401728
by Sheaby, Nov 22, 2013
I wish I had more information for you, Des.  I am so sorry that this is happening.  Have him tested for the testosterone issue like Renae suggested, and definitely look up the list from TTC because that's incredible results!!  I hope that there is a resolution soon!!  xoxo

334926 tn?1436811523
by butterflybabies, Nov 22, 2013
Sorry to hear Hun. But I would think that ph whether acid or to basic wouldn't be good for sperm. Is there anything to be done about his ph?

I've read about the aspiration of sperm from the testicles for ivf. I think you'd need to ask your doc if that's possible in your case.

Praying so much for you to get your dream! You deserve this so much and I have faith that it will happen. We may not expect things to happen a certain way but that doesn't mean there's not a plan to get you guys there.

Avatar universal
by Ellen038, Nov 22, 2013
Sent you an email Des. You can message me anytime. This whole thing bites. I'm sorry that office $ucks! In some ways I think it's worse then the disaster I'm in with my now EX OB. WTF is wrong with these people??? Hope karma comes around and kicks them where it counts. Sorry but this makes me mad.

1351078 tn?1416313146
by retta483, Nov 22, 2013
Des you & Brian are always in my prayers !!! I know it will happen for you guys sometimes i know you want to throw in the towel but its during those times you need to hang on to it even tighter !! you never know maybe your uroligist will be a miracle worker :)

790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 22, 2013
Thanks Sheaby!  I'm definitely going to purchase these that she mentioned.  It couldn't hurt that's for sure.

Thank you TTC!!  I'm soo glad to hear your DH had such amazing results from these and ty for sending them to me.

Thanks Lily..  I have no idea about this PH yet.  His stupid uro is out of the office until Wed., go figure.   His ph level BEFORE clomid was 8.3 so I'm thinking it had something to do with the clomid.  

Ellen, TY.. and I have no idea what the heII is going on today.  This is the worst dr./labs that I've ever dealt with.  I regret even going to him, even the first time.  I'm still angry...

I also want to thank you all for your support and encouraging words.  They mean so much!  

982214 tn?1471454781
by krichar, Nov 22, 2013
Hey Des ill tag you in something on another place

790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 22, 2013
Ok. :)

2020005 tn?1628125976
by KTowne, Nov 22, 2013
Thinking of you desarae :(

790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 22, 2013
Thank you so much KTowne.  

790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 22, 2013
Retta, thank you so much!  Yes I'm so angry and I just want this to be over with..it's such a nightmare.  I wished I could "sleep it away" but I know that's just emotions talking.  I'm hoping my uro can help us or at least give us some answers.  

1571146 tn?1399909692
by Moma_Cher, Nov 22, 2013
Oh Des!! I'm so sorry! I found one study online that suggests a dosage of clomid that is too high will cause azoospermia! here's what I read....

ABSTRACT

Clomiphene citrate, 50–400 rag/day for 2–12 months (median 7 months), stimulated the pituitary-gonadal axis in 13 normal men as evidenced by increased urinary excretion of hormones. Urinary total gonadotropins were increased by 80–400%, urinary ICSH 160–1200%, urinary estrogens by 150–680%, and urinary testosterone by 140–250%. In each individual the increase in ICSH was greater than the increase in total gonadotropins. No dose relationship was observed in any of these hormonal parameters. Sperm concentration was dosage related: low dosages of clomiphene (50 mg/day) caused an increase; intermediate dosages (100 and 200 mg/day) caused an increase, decrease, or no change; and high doses caused precipitous decreases. One subject given 3 doses showed 3 responses in sperm counts from an increase with a low dosage to azoospermia with a high dosage. It is inferred that the effect of the increase in gonadotropins and testosterone stimulates spermatogenesis at the spermatogonial level, causing an increase in sperm count; and that the stimulatory effect is obliterated at higher clomiphene dose levels by the direct damaging action of clomiphene upon spermatids, thus causing oligospermia or azoospermia.

here is the link- http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/29/5/638.abstract

I am hopeful that B will recover from this! Maybe he was sensitive to the medication and even a dose within range affected him as if it were a high dose? Was he at 50?

790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 22, 2013
Yes he was on 50 mg for 6 months when we had our SA.  Oh my gosh!!   See I'm thinking this is what done it also.  I'm furious!  WHY did he put him on this without checking anything...no blood work, no NOTHING. I should've suggested it maybe, but [email protected], I think he's the doctor.  

Thank you so much Cher!!  I'm going to go read it.   I just hope after stopping it, he can get some of these back in time!!  

2100308 tn?1388496839
by Yrmacias, Nov 23, 2013
Des, sorry to hear your news, but clomid is horrible!! I took it for a few months when I was ttc and not only were side effects awful, it didnt really do its job. I know nothing about low s/a but I heard fetilaid works and an acquaintance is currently pregnant w/ ivf icsi after her hubby at one point had no sperm/low sperm count.

Stay hopeful and do lots of research, change doctors if your not happy and ask questions you are paying them after all.


1272624 tn?1395434357
by plumber43, Nov 23, 2013
I believe you will get through this! I don't believe this is permanent, I can tell you that TTC and fertility treatments S UCK! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!, that's the truth! Stay positive visualize this bump in the road and eventually this will all become a distant memory! You'll see! We're here for you!
Love hugs and SSBD,
Melanie

790669 tn?1465189099
by Des_a_rae, Nov 23, 2013
Thank You Yrmacias.  Clomid is crazy!  I took it for about 3 months..had some side effects but nothing bad enough to make me stop.  Then there's my cousin.  He has low sperm count and him and his wife were going through IVF.  Clomid made a huge difference in his count.  Their first IVF.. pregnant and now we have my hubby who has NO sperm and I think Clomid is to blame. I'm going to get him on the vitamin's TTC  mentioned after the New Year.  See how things go from there.  We will be doing another SA, just not sure when.  


Thank You  Mel.  We'll get through, no doubt about it :)   It does s u c k.. I never in a million years thought we'd be here.  It's funny (in a bad way ) because I never wanted kids.  Ever!  After being married for about 3 years things changed, just all of a sudden.  I know deep down that one day, some how we'll have a child of our own.  It's just going to take time and obviously some heartache to get there.  

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