Touching the dead

[Lisi251]

Someone told me in the bible it says not to touch the dead, does anyone know anything about this I cant find it & I also find it hard to believe

[tbabi20]

Hiya April..

Romans 14:14 says, “there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.” Was Paul saying that nothing is unclean?

Compare Romans 14 with 1 Corinthians 8-10. You will see that the same problem is being addressed—friction between two parties in the early Church.

Jewish converts (aware of dietary laws) didn’t mind eating clean animals sold in the heathen markets. The Gentile converts thought heathen idols made sacrificed meat unclean:

"As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one" (1 Corinthians 8:4).

The argument wasn’t about dietary laws, but meat sacrificed to heathen idols. Paul urged Jewish and Gentile believers not to condemn each other based on sacrificed meat. Paul says this in 1 Corinthians 8:10-11 "For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for which Christ died?"

In other words, don’t make a brother feel he should ignore his uneasiness and try to eat sacrificed meat anyway. He would feel he is lost because his conscience wouldn’t let him rest.

"But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost" (Romans 14:15-17).

Paul is not dealing with a moral law here. He is calling for understanding of the tender consciences of weaker brothers. He advises “Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way” (Romans 14:13).

If you have any other ones to back up eating whatever we want feel free to post below.
Such ones as 1 Timothy 4:3-4 or Matthew 15:11...

[April2]

Ok, this is what confuses me. There are scriptures that seem to suggest different. Like Romans 14:

1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

   “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
   every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this. I do agree that there are certain foods that are probably not very good for us and we would do well to eat better, especially in this day and age of preservatives and junk!

[tbabi20]

Your welcome Lisi251. Good topic.

But true April we do live under grace but the bible says in Romans 3:31: "Do we then nullify the law by having this kind of faith? No! We uphold God's law and out of gratitude do what He has asked us to do."

Paul tells the believers to “touch not the unclean thing” and the Lord will receive them. John speaks of spiritual Babylon as a “cage of every unclean and hateful bird." In Isaiah’s prophesy of the new earth after the return of Christ, those who eat “swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together” (Isaiah 66:17). From one end of the Bible to the other, the concept of clean and unclean is upheld. It is a matter of health and well-being and still stands. Oh and Peter tells us “the Spirit of Christ” was in the prophets of old, meaning that the dietary laws are the words of Christ.

So it is my understanding that some laws still stand like moral, 10 commandments, health etc.

[Lisi251]

Thank youladies interesting discussion giving alot to think about

[April2]

Thank you for catching that. You're right, it does predate Moses. I should study into this a little more. I'm more familiar with the New Testament than the Old.

I agree that the Ten Commandments still stand today. It's my understanding that since we are living under Grace now and not under the Law that many things did change, including some of the ceremonial rituals as you mentioned, like the sacrifices, and that that all things were made clean, according to Acts 10, ! Peter 4, Colossians 2:16, also 1 Corinthians 6:12 and 1 Corinthians 10:23 where Paul says all things are permissable but not all things are necessarily beneficial to me.

[tbabi20]

"We no longer live under the law yet many of these are still beneficial to us today."

Careful. You have to know that there are certain laws in the Bible that predate Moses and we know that these are eternal principles. We know that we think that the Sabbath is still part of the Ten Commandments, and one reason for that is the Sabbath predates Moses, it predates the Ten Commandments, it goes to Genesis Chapter 2—He blessed the seventh day and rested.  Okay? The same thing with the distinction between clean and unclean foods. Noah was not a Jew.  Everybody reading this right now is related to Noah.  God told Noah to make a distinction between the clean and unclean animals when they were brought onto the ark.  So this was not a Mosaic Law.  It predates Moses by hundreds of years and so that’s why I say it’s safe to put that in a different category.

Because Moses, in his law, talks about these things does not mean it’s part of the Mosaic Law.  Moses talks about everything.  He talks about the civil law.  He talks about moral law.  He talks about health law.  He talks about ceremonial law.  I mean Moses covered everything, but the clean and unclean distinction was not original with Moses.  He simply commented on it.  Okay? So what was done away with was the sacrificial laws because Jesus became the sacrifice. The sacrificial laws pointed to what God would do.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." . Matthew 5:17.

Christ fulfilled the obligations of the ceremonial law by becoming the Lamb slain for the sins of the world. He fulfilled the obligation of the law of Ten Commandments by His perfect obedience to its precepts. After His death, the law of ceremonies was discontinued because it foreshadowed the cross, but the law of Ten Commandments did not change, nor was it done away with. The same law is still to be found in the New Testament and those who follow Christ must continue to live by this law.  

[April2]

Well, if you think about it, back then they didn't embalm the bodies, etc., so it's possible that touching a dead body could endanger the person to not just germs but possibly whatever sickness the person may have had. It then could be spread to others that you touched as well as affecting you.
Again, now days we're a lot more aware of germs and sanitization.

When my grandmother died, I touched her at the viewing but I think seeing her and touching her only made it harder for me. I wanted to remember her alive, smiling and eyes twinkling. It was a bit shocking for me to see her like that because it didn't really look like her. You could literally tell it was her shell, her body, but her spirit was gone. I know some people need that closure, to say goodbye and all, but it was very hard on me, personally.
I was very close to my grandmother. What gives me comfort is knowing I will see her again some day.

[Lisi251]

Thanks April, that helps alot. My husband & I were having this discussion he believes you shouldnt touch the dead but he has never lost anyone close to him, I on the other hand have lost people I love very much & it just for me wasnt possible not to touch them.

I just couldnt understand what he meant thanks for taking time to help.

Lisa

[April2]

God had rules in the Old Testament about what was clean and unclean, including unclean foods and clean foods, touching a dead body or having sex with your wife during her monthly cycle. These laws were partly to help against germs and sickness and also to help keep God's people pure. We no longer live under the law yet many of these are still beneficial to us today.

I found this and thought it might help explain.


To get His point across, God selected several things from life which were called unclean. All of them share the characteristic of being at least slightly gross to most people. Some of them were things a person could avoid by being careful, but some things could not be avoided. For instance, touching a dead body made a person unclean for a week, but at the same time God said that the dead had to be buried. Thus in the fulfillment of a command, a person became unclean for a while. Others were things that could not be avoided. For women it was was their monthly periods. They were unclean during the time of their blood flow. These same monthly periods were something men could avoid and were expected to avoid.

The laws of uncleanness was to teach the Israelites about the nature of sin. The point of having some things unclean which cannot be avoided is to emphasize the fact that everyone sins (Romans 3:9, 23). Now that we are under the New Law of Christ, we no longer have laws of uncleanness, but as many people noted the laws of uncleanness did have a beneficial side-effect. Today we realize that they would significantly cut down on the spread of disease -- especially in a society that didn't understand about germs.

God had to teach these people about sanitization and cleanliness! For instance, He instructed to go outside their living area to use the bathroom and to cover it up. He also taught them about cleaning themselves, their clothes, etc. He literally had to teach them everything!

Now days we have better sanitization, refrigeration and better knowledge of germs and keeping healthy. Again, the things God taught the Israelites back then are still beneficial to us today but we are no longer living under the law of the Old Testament.

As for the clean and unclean foods:
When the Mosaic Law was instituted to Israel, certain meats were then forbidden for the Jews (Israel only -Leviticus 10:10, 11:4-7; Deuteronomy 14:7-8). This command was again changed when Jesus was crucified. The laws restriction came to its end as a requirement for believers and all meat was again allowed, as it is clean. In this new dispensation, after the cross, all meats are allowed for food, there is no prohibition of clean or unclean because we are no longer under the Law of Moses, that made these distinctions but are under a new covenant (Acts 11:8-9; Romans 14:14), but under the law of Christ.