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Autopsy reportedly finds Brown shot at close range, not running from cops
Michael Brown, the 18-year-old black man whose fatal shooting in by a white police officer in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson in August touched off weeks of racially-charged rioting, had marijuana in his system and was shot at close range, according to the official autopsy and toxicology report.
The documents, obtained by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and analyzed by two experts not directly involved in the case, appears to contradict witness accounts that claimed Brown was running away from Police Officer Darren Wilson when he was killed on Aug. 9. The new information comes on the heels of reports that Wilson told authorities Brown had reached inside Wilson’s police SUV and struggled for his gun, resulting in Wilson firing twice, hitting Brown once in the hand. Moments later and outside of the vehicle, Wilson fired the fatal bullets that sparked a national controversy.
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The newspaper had St. Louis medical examiner Dr. Michael Graham, who is not part of the official investigation, review the autopsy report, and he determined that it “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car” including a shot that hit Brown’s right hand. Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who also reviewed the documents, concurred that the autopsy “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun" and that it did not support claims Brown was shot while running away from Wilson, or with his hands up.
The toxicology test. also obtained by the newspaper and performed by a St. Louis University laboratory, revealed marijuana in Brown’s blood and urine. Alfred Staubus, a consultant in forensic toxicology at The Ohio State University College of Pharmacy, told the newspaper THC could impair judgment or slow reaction times but that there was no reliable measurement to make those conclusions.
foxnews.com
The documents, obtained by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and analyzed by two experts not directly involved in the case, appears to contradict witness accounts that claimed Brown was running away from Police Officer Darren Wilson when he was killed on Aug. 9. The new information comes on the heels of reports that Wilson told authorities Brown had reached inside Wilson’s police SUV and struggled for his gun, resulting in Wilson firing twice, hitting Brown once in the hand. Moments later and outside of the vehicle, Wilson fired the fatal bullets that sparked a national controversy.
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The newspaper had St. Louis medical examiner Dr. Michael Graham, who is not part of the official investigation, review the autopsy report, and he determined that it “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car” including a shot that hit Brown’s right hand. Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco who also reviewed the documents, concurred that the autopsy “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun" and that it did not support claims Brown was shot while running away from Wilson, or with his hands up.
The toxicology test. also obtained by the newspaper and performed by a St. Louis University laboratory, revealed marijuana in Brown’s blood and urine. Alfred Staubus, a consultant in forensic toxicology at The Ohio State University College of Pharmacy, told the newspaper THC could impair judgment or slow reaction times but that there was no reliable measurement to make those conclusions.
foxnews.com
I saw this on the news. I was going to ask if this were the "official statement" but that doesn't appear to be the case.
"Eye witness testimony" is an interesting thing. So many times the testimony holds little water. People arrive on scene moments later and are fed "eye witness accounts" and then these people inject themselves into the scenario....
"Eye witness testimony" is an interesting thing. So many times the testimony holds little water. People arrive on scene moments later and are fed "eye witness accounts" and then these people inject themselves into the scenario....
My opinion, most of the protesters are nothing short of a “Lynch Mob”, they have made up their minds, the Young Man was innocent, shot in Cold Blood, and the Officer is guilty of murder. No amount of evidence will change their minds.
Eye witness evidence is often unreliable.
Yes, especially when almost all of them contradict each other.
“Accounts of what happened during Brown's final moments vary significantly. Most agree that there was a verbal exchange on the street followed by a scuffle between Brown and Wilson, with Brown outside the car leaning in, or being pulled in. During this exchange, Wilson's gun went off, and Brown and his friend ran. Wilson then got out of his car and fired at Brown, who stopped and turned to face the officer.
This is the part where the various witness accounts diverge and the most significant differences creep in. Some witnesses claim that Brown had his hands up and was gunned down. Wilson, and reportedly some witnesses, claim that Brown charged him, forcing him to fire.
Dorian Johnson, 22, who was with Brown at the time of the shooting, was quoted in USA Today as saying that following a verbal altercation, Wilson tried to pull Brown through the window of his patrol car, a significant deviation from the officer's account.
"[Then] he says, 'I'll shoot.' A second later the gun went off and he let go [of Brown]," Johnson reportedly said, denying that Brown had tried to reach for Wilson's weapon.
Describing the moment Brown, who by all accounts accept was not armed, turned to face the officer, Johnson said: "My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting. Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area. He fell dramatically into the fatal position. I did not hear once he yell freeze, stop or halt. It was just horrible to watch."
Another witness, Tiffany Mitchell, 27, said that Brown was shot while he had his hands up.
“After the shot, the kid just breaks away. The cop follows him, kept shooting, the kid’s body jerked as if he was hit. After his body jerked he turns around, puts his hands up, and the cop continues to walk up on him and continues to shoot until he goes all the way down,”
CNN reported that an account of the shooting from the officer's perspective, which was phoned in to a St. Louis radio station, was consistent with the investigation's understanding of Wilson's version of events.
The account, from a woman calling herself "Josie," says that after a verbal exchange, the officer tried to get out of his cruiser but was pushed back inside by Brown. She then alleges that Brown punched Wilson and tried to grab his gun, which subsequently went off.
According to her account, Brown and his friend then fled and were pursued by Wilson, and asked to stop. When Brown turned around, he began taunting Wilson and then charged him at full speed. Wilson then fired on Brown, killing him. The New York Times reports that, according to investigators, “some witnesses” have backed up the account, but the paper gave no further details.
However, another witness, Michael Brady, 32, who lives on the street where the incident took place, contradicted the claim that Brown had charged at Wilson.
Speaking to Anderson Cooper, Brady described Brown as “facing the officer... he's balled up... he had his arms under his stomach and he was... going down and the officer lets off three or four shots at him." Asked by Cooper if he had seen, as the officer's account suggests, Brown running toward the officer, Brady said that he did not.
It is worth noting that not all witness accounts have been made public at this time, so further testimony about the incident may emerge. A grand jury hearing into the shooting was opened Wednesday by the St. Louis County prosecutor.”
http://www.ibtimes.com/michael-brown-shooting-witness-accounts-tell-conflicting-stories-1664786
“Accounts of what happened during Brown's final moments vary significantly. Most agree that there was a verbal exchange on the street followed by a scuffle between Brown and Wilson, with Brown outside the car leaning in, or being pulled in. During this exchange, Wilson's gun went off, and Brown and his friend ran. Wilson then got out of his car and fired at Brown, who stopped and turned to face the officer.
This is the part where the various witness accounts diverge and the most significant differences creep in. Some witnesses claim that Brown had his hands up and was gunned down. Wilson, and reportedly some witnesses, claim that Brown charged him, forcing him to fire.
Dorian Johnson, 22, who was with Brown at the time of the shooting, was quoted in USA Today as saying that following a verbal altercation, Wilson tried to pull Brown through the window of his patrol car, a significant deviation from the officer's account.
"[Then] he says, 'I'll shoot.' A second later the gun went off and he let go [of Brown]," Johnson reportedly said, denying that Brown had tried to reach for Wilson's weapon.
Describing the moment Brown, who by all accounts accept was not armed, turned to face the officer, Johnson said: "My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting. Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area. He fell dramatically into the fatal position. I did not hear once he yell freeze, stop or halt. It was just horrible to watch."
Another witness, Tiffany Mitchell, 27, said that Brown was shot while he had his hands up.
“After the shot, the kid just breaks away. The cop follows him, kept shooting, the kid’s body jerked as if he was hit. After his body jerked he turns around, puts his hands up, and the cop continues to walk up on him and continues to shoot until he goes all the way down,”
CNN reported that an account of the shooting from the officer's perspective, which was phoned in to a St. Louis radio station, was consistent with the investigation's understanding of Wilson's version of events.
The account, from a woman calling herself "Josie," says that after a verbal exchange, the officer tried to get out of his cruiser but was pushed back inside by Brown. She then alleges that Brown punched Wilson and tried to grab his gun, which subsequently went off.
According to her account, Brown and his friend then fled and were pursued by Wilson, and asked to stop. When Brown turned around, he began taunting Wilson and then charged him at full speed. Wilson then fired on Brown, killing him. The New York Times reports that, according to investigators, “some witnesses” have backed up the account, but the paper gave no further details.
However, another witness, Michael Brady, 32, who lives on the street where the incident took place, contradicted the claim that Brown had charged at Wilson.
Speaking to Anderson Cooper, Brady described Brown as “facing the officer... he's balled up... he had his arms under his stomach and he was... going down and the officer lets off three or four shots at him." Asked by Cooper if he had seen, as the officer's account suggests, Brown running toward the officer, Brady said that he did not.
It is worth noting that not all witness accounts have been made public at this time, so further testimony about the incident may emerge. A grand jury hearing into the shooting was opened Wednesday by the St. Louis County prosecutor.”
http://www.ibtimes.com/michael-brown-shooting-witness-accounts-tell-conflicting-stories-1664786
There is a lot of controversy around the autopsy. His having pot in his system means nothing whatsoever. That stuff is detectable for a long time. And unlike alcohol doesn't have a propensity for making a person violent.
I still say it would make absolutely no sense for this young man who was headed towards college to have provoked a cop.
I still say it would make absolutely no sense for this young man who was headed towards college to have provoked a cop.
He was shown on video strong arming the store owner; why wouldn't he provoke a cop? Being college bound doesn't prevent one from doing stupid stuff.
Alcohol doesn't necessarily have a propensity for making people violent, either. There are a lot of people who become the life of the party when they've had a drink or two; others become very subdued. It hits us all very differently, as does pot.
Alcohol doesn't necessarily have a propensity for making people violent, either. There are a lot of people who become the life of the party when they've had a drink or two; others become very subdued. It hits us all very differently, as does pot.
"I still say it would make absolutely no sense for this young man who was headed towards college to have provoked a cop."
It also didn't make sence for him to Rob a Store and Assualt the Clerk either, but he did.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2z5-H8NSGA
It also didn't make sence for him to Rob a Store and Assualt the Clerk either, but he did.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2z5-H8NSGA
One thing I'll say about you.
You are very consistent.
You are very consistent.
I found this that shows he did not steal a box of cigars, he bought a few packs. It is a picture by picture explanation.
I don't care what he did he did not deserve to be shot like he was, over and over.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/28/1339820/-What-Mike-Brown-did-and-did-not-do-inside-of-the-Ferguson-convenience-store#
I don't care what he did he did not deserve to be shot like he was, over and over.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/28/1339820/-What-Mike-Brown-did-and-did-not-do-inside-of-the-Ferguson-convenience-store#
Here is another one and it says he paid for the cigars, the store never called 911 about a robery
http://sfbayview.com/2014/08/mike-brown-appears-to-have-paid-for-those-cigars/
http://sfbayview.com/2014/08/mike-brown-appears-to-have-paid-for-those-cigars/
Wouldn't you love to have me as your star witness?
If it ever makes it to trial, the Prosecution will have a Field Day with these “so called” eyewitnesses. . If he did pay for all of the Cigars taken, the proof would be in the receipt taken from the cash register and the Clerks testimony. Regardless of, if he stole the Cigars are not (I believe he did), he did assault the Clerk. This changes being portrayed from a Gentle Giant Image to a Thug/Bully.
I meant the Defense will have a Field Day with these “so called” eyewitnesses.
There will be no defense, come on, we all know better! These procedings that are going on and the leaks that are going on? Yeah, fair and balanced right? I dont care if he stole cigars, or even shoved the clerk! Still no excuse the way he was shot, and I might add that they guy that did the first autopsy has real issues with the leak that said gun residue was on the body of brown. He disagrees. So to me? Its just like politics, sides have been drawn and the truth will be somewhere in la la land. You know it, and I know it.
IF, and that's a big IF, Brown was attacking a police officer, he deserved to be shot.
And its that big IF, that we will probably never really know, as the officer had no camera on his person or in his car, and there are enuff so called eye witnesses on both sides of the isle that have conflicting stories. And one thing is for sure, regardless, there are lots of problems in ferguson and at the very least, that needs addressed. Will it be? I hope
As noted above, eye witnesses can be very unreliable and juries are for sifting through all that information and rendering a verdict.
It's up to the police and city fathers to address the issues in Ferguson. Black people can help resolve some of those problems if they get involved with their city/county council. I don't know about up there, but here, it only costs about $60 to run for County commission and that fee can be waived if the person doesn't have the money. Or they can get involved through their churches and other organizations. They can help get things changed without violence.
It's up to the police and city fathers to address the issues in Ferguson. Black people can help resolve some of those problems if they get involved with their city/county council. I don't know about up there, but here, it only costs about $60 to run for County commission and that fee can be waived if the person doesn't have the money. Or they can get involved through their churches and other organizations. They can help get things changed without violence.
It has been proven that Brown had gun shot residue on his hand, so he was part of a struggle for the gun.
Has anyone seen this from CNN News?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/11/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/11/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/
Yes, I’ve seen this. If you scroll up you will see several “Eye Witness Accounts” most all of them have discrepancies with each other. If it goes to trial, they will have their day in court. My prediction is, most will be discredited. Some of them already have because they don’t line up with the evidence.
I read yesterday that Holder will not be perusing Federal Charges do to lack of evidence.
I think the best thing that could happen is, this thing go to trial. But regardless he has already been tried in the media so regardless of the truth, the lynch mob will not be satisfied unless they have his head on a platter. Getting to The Truth is irrelevant to them.
I read yesterday that Holder will not be perusing Federal Charges do to lack of evidence.
I think the best thing that could happen is, this thing go to trial. But regardless he has already been tried in the media so regardless of the truth, the lynch mob will not be satisfied unless they have his head on a platter. Getting to The Truth is irrelevant to them.
Or riots because according to some that is called black rage for years of injustice.
"....IF, and that's a big IF, Brown was attacking a police officer, he deserved to be shot...."
How many times did he deserve to be shot?
And how long did he deserve to be left lying dead in the street?
How many times did he deserve to be shot?
And how long did he deserve to be left lying dead in the street?
Something stinks about this whole scenario.
And I still maintain that cops should be taught how to disarm or disable and shoot to kill should be a last resort, ALWAYS!
And I still maintain that cops should be taught how to disarm or disable and shoot to kill should be a last resort, ALWAYS!
"I still say it would make absolutely no sense for this young man who was headed towards college to have provoked a cop. "
Respectfully I am trying to sift through that statement and make sense of it. Through the years, there has to have been thousands of kids with great intentions, dreams and ambition that have done incredibly stupid things and ended up not in college... but rather in jail or dead.
18 year olds are capable of some incredible things and some incredibly stupid things. I don't believe a lot 18 of year olds have the wherewithal to look at things long term.
I know from my teen years, there were a lot of kids I grew up with, who on the outside and perhaps academically looked to be "great kids", where actually some of the biggest trouble makes out there. Some didn't get to go to college at 18 because of some of the crap they pulled.
I've got a smart 18 year old who plans on attending college, but he has no clue as to how the real world works. he has a hard time thinking past the football game on Friday nights.
18 year olds as a group don't seem real bright to me.
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