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HIV from cunnilingus and torn frenulum
Hey Doc,
I am not questioning the conclusions given on the community forum already, it's just I like to know how things work.
I have been told that I am apparently at no risk, but am still up and down about the situation, I'm very worried again.
As I put in my posts already, I had an encounter whereby I performed extended cunnilingus and some anulingus on a lapdancer of unknown HIV status, in Gdansk, Poland in the early hours of the 6th September. I visted her 4 times with a duration of about 15 minutes per time in the club. I was very "in the zone" with this woman and performed it aggressively.
As I performed it I scraped the frenulum on my tongue with my bottom teeth. This is really my only concern. I noticed it the next day.
As it was a wound that was being created as I was in the act, it would have been opening all the time.
So I would like to understand when a tongue is inserted right into the vagina,
the virus will still have been in her body meaning it was still active. Hope Im getting this right so far.
1) Why is it not possible for the virus to enter this wound on the frenulum, as my tongue will still have been deep inside where the active virus would be?
Unless, as I understand from Nursegirls fantastic journal entry, that the entry point through a cut on the frenulum is not an entry point for the virus like, say, the urethra? But not sure.
2) Are the enzimes on a tongue able to "kill off" a HIV virus, whilst inside her body, thus further restricting HIV from entering my bloodstream?
Probably got the whole "how its transmitted" thing wrong, but I've never needed to know it before and really wish I was just watching tv, and not typing this now.
I am avoiding my wife at the moment in fear of infecting her - feel terrible and extremely guilty.
I am booked in for full 6 week STI screening and HIV test on 18th October.
Ps I also know that I wont be the only one who has cut their frenulum...
Thanks in advance
I am not questioning the conclusions given on the community forum already, it's just I like to know how things work.
I have been told that I am apparently at no risk, but am still up and down about the situation, I'm very worried again.
As I put in my posts already, I had an encounter whereby I performed extended cunnilingus and some anulingus on a lapdancer of unknown HIV status, in Gdansk, Poland in the early hours of the 6th September. I visted her 4 times with a duration of about 15 minutes per time in the club. I was very "in the zone" with this woman and performed it aggressively.
As I performed it I scraped the frenulum on my tongue with my bottom teeth. This is really my only concern. I noticed it the next day.
As it was a wound that was being created as I was in the act, it would have been opening all the time.
So I would like to understand when a tongue is inserted right into the vagina,
the virus will still have been in her body meaning it was still active. Hope Im getting this right so far.
1) Why is it not possible for the virus to enter this wound on the frenulum, as my tongue will still have been deep inside where the active virus would be?
Unless, as I understand from Nursegirls fantastic journal entry, that the entry point through a cut on the frenulum is not an entry point for the virus like, say, the urethra? But not sure.
2) Are the enzimes on a tongue able to "kill off" a HIV virus, whilst inside her body, thus further restricting HIV from entering my bloodstream?
Probably got the whole "how its transmitted" thing wrong, but I've never needed to know it before and really wish I was just watching tv, and not typing this now.
I am avoiding my wife at the moment in fear of infecting her - feel terrible and extremely guilty.
I am booked in for full 6 week STI screening and HIV test on 18th October.
Ps I also know that I wont be the only one who has cut their frenulum...
Thanks in advance
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Given the official (FDA approved) position that HIV antibody results are not defintiive until 3 months, such recommendations are more or less routine -- even if scientifically unjustified. This is discssed in the thread linked below.
In any case, congratulations. It sounds like you'll be able to move on without difficulty. Stay safe!
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1704700
In any case, congratulations. It sounds like you'll be able to move on without difficulty. Stay safe!
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1704700
Hey doc, just reporting back that you were right! Had 6 week rapid test today and it was negative. Feel relieved but quite sad that the guilt got hold of me and i confessed to my wife a few days ago. But hey, i feel healthy and doctor said i should take 3 month test just to "finish the paperwork". She does not feel its necessary but is obliged to say it. So ill take the test in 6 weeks even though i know im fine. I guess its a tough lesson (and will be an expensive one - with 3 kids etc) but i feel good about the future. Things gonna change!
just thought id report back as you requested.
thx!
just thought id report back as you requested.
thx!
Got it. Thank you. Wow, how a few hours of relative stupidity can change ones life. I just want this nightmare to be over. Ironically i have been so fed up with absolutely everything of late.. Which, thinking about it, is probably why i did what i did. Midlife crisis, just turned 40, huge mortgage, responsible job, 3 kids, true commitments. But now i cant think of anything better than cuddling my family and being the perfect husband / dad. Life is so irrelevant until you feel you are going to lose it. From your last comment i want to embrace life now. Thankyou sir. You are a factual and a great doctor and worthy of the reputation that i'm learning about you. I will of course send in my results. I wish i could buy you a virtual British real ale. I wish you all the best in life, you are providing the most amazing service for foolish people like myself. Have a nice day Dr HHH.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
From your original comments, I assumed a more significant injury had occurred. I would view this event the same as any garden variety episode of cunnilingus: zero risk for HIV, even if your partner were infected. I imagine the heterosexual HIV rates are higher in Poland than the UK, but still it is statistically unlikely your partner had HIV. But even if she did, you can view this as a zero risk event. If somehow I found myself in your situation, I wouldn't even feel a need for HIV testing, and I would continue unprotected sex with my wife without fear of infecting her.
So let me know your test result, but stay relaxed in the meantime. I'm sure it will be negative. But since a definitive answer will be forthcoming, it's pointless to speculate further. I won't have anything more to say until then.
So let me know your test result, but stay relaxed in the meantime. I'm sure it will be negative. But since a definitive answer will be forthcoming, it's pointless to speculate further. I won't have anything more to say until then.
Sorry, one last thing. Panicked again.
You say to expect a negative result - is that even with the scrape on the frenulum?
Mind going overtime... thankyou
You say to expect a negative result - is that even with the scrape on the frenulum?
Mind going overtime... thankyou
Hi Doctor,
Yes sort of helped - i think. So I guess it isnt zero risk?!
I sustained the scrape (not tear) from my tongue being stretched too far out and my bottom teeth rubbing against the frenulum. I saw it was irritated the next morning and a small section half way down was slightly raised. I'm not sure if it caused bleeding.
You said HIV is rare in my country, but it was Poland where this took place.
I guess a test is the only answer. V anxious now.
Thank
Yes sort of helped - i think. So I guess it isnt zero risk?!
I sustained the scrape (not tear) from my tongue being stretched too far out and my bottom teeth rubbing against the frenulum. I saw it was irritated the next morning and a small section half way down was slightly raised. I'm not sure if it caused bleeding.
You said HIV is rare in my country, but it was Poland where this took place.
I guess a test is the only answer. V anxious now.
Thank
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to the forum and thanks for your question. I also scanned your discussions on the community forums.
First, it is correct that oral sex rarely transmits HIV, and to my knowledge no cases have been scientifically documented to have been transmitted by cunnilingus, in either direction. ("Scientific documentation" isn't the same a personal claims by infected persons, which really don't count. Most infected people can only make a guess at when and where they acquired HIV.)
That said, of course one could catch HIV if they sustained an injury, especially one that caused bleeding, that was exposed to infected secretions. (I have difficulty understanding how performing cunnilingus could resut in an injury to the frenulum of your tongue, but I'll let that go.) However, it's still a stretch. Heterosexually transmitted HIV is rare in your country, even among sex workers, so it is unlikely your partner had HIV.
Saliva does indeed inactivate HIV, which is believed to be one of the reasons that oral sex is such low risk. By the way, government agencies typically have very conservative legal standards. If there is any risk at all, even if only theoretical or so small that it can be ignored, they will nevertheless tell people there is a risk. Hence the information you found at AIDS.gov.
So you can definitely expect a negative result when you have your HIV test. Most testing in the UK is with the duo test, which actually is conclusve 4 weeks or more after the last possible exposure -- so you don't need to wait those additional 2 weeks.
I hope this has helped. Best wishes-- HHH, MD
First, it is correct that oral sex rarely transmits HIV, and to my knowledge no cases have been scientifically documented to have been transmitted by cunnilingus, in either direction. ("Scientific documentation" isn't the same a personal claims by infected persons, which really don't count. Most infected people can only make a guess at when and where they acquired HIV.)
That said, of course one could catch HIV if they sustained an injury, especially one that caused bleeding, that was exposed to infected secretions. (I have difficulty understanding how performing cunnilingus could resut in an injury to the frenulum of your tongue, but I'll let that go.) However, it's still a stretch. Heterosexually transmitted HIV is rare in your country, even among sex workers, so it is unlikely your partner had HIV.
Saliva does indeed inactivate HIV, which is believed to be one of the reasons that oral sex is such low risk. By the way, government agencies typically have very conservative legal standards. If there is any risk at all, even if only theoretical or so small that it can be ignored, they will nevertheless tell people there is a risk. Hence the information you found at AIDS.gov.
So you can definitely expect a negative result when you have your HIV test. Most testing in the UK is with the duo test, which actually is conclusve 4 weeks or more after the last possible exposure -- so you don't need to wait those additional 2 weeks.
I hope this has helped. Best wishes-- HHH, MD
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