Aa
Med/Psych Followup
I followed up with my internist today.
Basically, I'm not having a depression but have had a couple of isolated episodes of delusional thoughts.
My internist who is very familiar with Hep C treatment with patients says he believes this is based on interferon and has seen it before. He said what usually happens is that the IFN is discontinued, sometimes for a month or so, to see if any further episodes occur. He said he has seen a couple of cases where the delusional thoughts persisted post treatment but overwhelmingly it stops after treatment and IFN clearance.
He is calling Gish to see what he thinks.
Just so as to not freak anyone out, I will share the two examples of delusional thinking with you. It's not easy, it's embarrassing but it is also nothing I have anything to do with. You can't overcome them by the "strength of your mind" and it is concerning to me, because I'm good at doing things cognitively to talk myself out of "bad moods" or "funks". (I'm a trained therapist as well).
1. Tuesday I was lying down and had a pain in my right shoulder blade. I believed that if i reached my hand back and touched it, there would be a hump there.
2. Yesterday I was rubbing my eye and did not want to stop because I was sure if i did, i would be blind in that eye.
These are not "fears" or "fantasies"....I actually, for that few moments, believed it was true.
So that's the story. Will wait to see what Gish says.
I know it sounds like I'm nuts. I'm not. One of the steadiest people you could meet. but this is a bit scary.
Deb
Basically, I'm not having a depression but have had a couple of isolated episodes of delusional thoughts.
My internist who is very familiar with Hep C treatment with patients says he believes this is based on interferon and has seen it before. He said what usually happens is that the IFN is discontinued, sometimes for a month or so, to see if any further episodes occur. He said he has seen a couple of cases where the delusional thoughts persisted post treatment but overwhelmingly it stops after treatment and IFN clearance.
He is calling Gish to see what he thinks.
Just so as to not freak anyone out, I will share the two examples of delusional thinking with you. It's not easy, it's embarrassing but it is also nothing I have anything to do with. You can't overcome them by the "strength of your mind" and it is concerning to me, because I'm good at doing things cognitively to talk myself out of "bad moods" or "funks". (I'm a trained therapist as well).
1. Tuesday I was lying down and had a pain in my right shoulder blade. I believed that if i reached my hand back and touched it, there would be a hump there.
2. Yesterday I was rubbing my eye and did not want to stop because I was sure if i did, i would be blind in that eye.
These are not "fears" or "fantasies"....I actually, for that few moments, believed it was true.
So that's the story. Will wait to see what Gish says.
I know it sounds like I'm nuts. I'm not. One of the steadiest people you could meet. but this is a bit scary.
Deb
Sorry you are experiencing these things. Sounds just horrible. I would be scared ****less. Hope Gish can give some kind of answer that will at least give you peace of mind on the matter. Try and take it easy, and remember, its tx and not you, You Are Not Crazy, infact from your post here I would say quite the opposite. Try not to let things get to you to badly. What we go through on tx is beyond what most humans could handle. Just remember we are warroirs and we will triumph.
Try and have a great holiday weekend and hoping you no more episodes.
Cajun
Try and have a great holiday weekend and hoping you no more episodes.
Cajun
I must have been out of sync with the latest post when I commented on the original thread. You actually sound very together under the circumstances. I think the combo of interferon and stopping work must be very difficult. I know that when I retired, and that was voluntary, I went through some difficult times. I was surprised how much of my self image came from my job.
I have similar experiences on interferon, but also when I have been very sleep deprived while working enormous hours.
I have similar experiences on interferon, but also when I have been very sleep deprived while working enormous hours.
Sweetie, nice, nice note.
Well, I am fairly together for the most part except when the couple of thoughts crept into my head. It's not all the time for sure. But it is definitely interferon mediated and there's not a darn thing I can do to either start of stop it.
Gish and my internist are talking via SATELLITE PHONE right now, how exciting!
The good news is that the numbers show that this will probably not persist post tx for very long.
Tough day on the boards today, huh?
Eric, wish I could join you and NYG for dinner but give her huge hugs for me too please?
Love
Deb
Well, I am fairly together for the most part except when the couple of thoughts crept into my head. It's not all the time for sure. But it is definitely interferon mediated and there's not a darn thing I can do to either start of stop it.
Gish and my internist are talking via SATELLITE PHONE right now, how exciting!
The good news is that the numbers show that this will probably not persist post tx for very long.
Tough day on the boards today, huh?
Eric, wish I could join you and NYG for dinner but give her huge hugs for me too please?
Love
Deb
It's a good sign that you are able to identify these things as delusional thinking.
I have no background in pharmo-psychiatry but I still wouln't discount the Proazac -- or your increase in Prozac dose -- as the cause of your delusionary symptons. Delusional or Abnormal Thinking are listed side effects.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/fluoxetine_ad.htm
The reason I think so has both to do with what I've read about Prozac and the posts I've read here over the past two years. Read a lot about riba rage, depression, anxiety, etc -- but can't remember reading about delusional symptons.
If it were me I'd see a shrink well-versed in pharmopsychology, and try and sort out whether the cause is the interferon, Prozac, or perhaps a combination.
All the best,
-- Jim
I have no background in pharmo-psychiatry but I still wouln't discount the Proazac -- or your increase in Prozac dose -- as the cause of your delusionary symptons. Delusional or Abnormal Thinking are listed side effects.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/fluoxetine_ad.htm
The reason I think so has both to do with what I've read about Prozac and the posts I've read here over the past two years. Read a lot about riba rage, depression, anxiety, etc -- but can't remember reading about delusional symptons.
If it were me I'd see a shrink well-versed in pharmopsychology, and try and sort out whether the cause is the interferon, Prozac, or perhaps a combination.
All the best,
-- Jim
gish and rollins are talking about that as well. Had an email with him to go over pharma after all this started this morning too.
I have been in touch with a couple of MD psychiatrist folks but the issue is there are very ew with a lot of interferon/prozac experience. I will keep at it.
This is definiately delusional. I guess maybe my training has helped in identifying it.
it's creepy.
more on it later.
I feel humbled by the things going on the board today.
Deb
I have been in touch with a couple of MD psychiatrist folks but the issue is there are very ew with a lot of interferon/prozac experience. I will keep at it.
This is definiately delusional. I guess maybe my training has helped in identifying it.
it's creepy.
more on it later.
I feel humbled by the things going on the board today.
Deb
I'm trying to go off prozac. i started around week 20 or so coz I was having intolerable rages and anxiety.
It did help that condition but has also made me feel dumber than i've felt my entire life!
I'm weaning myself off, now and hope to stay off them through the rest of tx.
yeah, Deb. Between Rick and Myown there's a lot of unhappy news today. But there's also Valtod, who's doing shot 72 and Stgeorge is nearing the end . . .
And I know you're gonna solve your meds issue, too.
Wyntre
It did help that condition but has also made me feel dumber than i've felt my entire life!
I'm weaning myself off, now and hope to stay off them through the rest of tx.
yeah, Deb. Between Rick and Myown there's a lot of unhappy news today. But there's also Valtod, who's doing shot 72 and Stgeorge is nearing the end . . .
And I know you're gonna solve your meds issue, too.
Wyntre
please know that I'm not trying to make light of this, by comparing myself to you, but i've had these thoughts so many times I couldn't count. So many times I was convinced I was dying, and wouldn't live through the week....I mean at the time, I was convinced of this for long periods of time.
I could list them all here, but the post squares aren't big enough I'm afraid. But I know pretty much what you are talking about. I've gotten good at dealing with people in these episodes, I "act" like everything is okay, (when I can, and I can't always) and that's usually good enough. And sometimes when I'm having to talk to someone, I kind of imagine how horrified they would be if they really knew the thoughts going around in my head. Good thing are heads aren't transparent, and don't have ticker tape like CNN! lol...sorry for making a joke, but that's the only way I can get through this stuff sometimes. I got a good thing from 12 Step meetings, I think, "act as if" sometimes if I act like everything is okay for long enough, the thoughts start stabilizing. Any way to get to stabilized thoughts is okay with me. Another mantra I do is to get some distance and objectivity from my thoughts, by telling myself, they are just thoughts, they aren't me. I'm pretty sure you do a lot of this stuff yourself. Hope you feel better soon.
I could list them all here, but the post squares aren't big enough I'm afraid. But I know pretty much what you are talking about. I've gotten good at dealing with people in these episodes, I "act" like everything is okay, (when I can, and I can't always) and that's usually good enough. And sometimes when I'm having to talk to someone, I kind of imagine how horrified they would be if they really knew the thoughts going around in my head. Good thing are heads aren't transparent, and don't have ticker tape like CNN! lol...sorry for making a joke, but that's the only way I can get through this stuff sometimes. I got a good thing from 12 Step meetings, I think, "act as if" sometimes if I act like everything is okay for long enough, the thoughts start stabilizing. Any way to get to stabilized thoughts is okay with me. Another mantra I do is to get some distance and objectivity from my thoughts, by telling myself, they are just thoughts, they aren't me. I'm pretty sure you do a lot of this stuff yourself. Hope you feel better soon.
I am not sure what you are referring to when you talk about a rough day on the boards. I have been busy moving into our short term rental in Stamford and haven't been on much today. It sounds serious though.
I wish you could join us for dinner, but Vegas is a long way off. Have you lived there long? I will be away from the computer until Monday; I need a break from the craziness of the stock market and all the other news. I will be thinking about you and I hoping that you will feel better soon.
I went through so many years of severe depression as a teenager, so it makes me sad to think you experience anything like that.
Eric
I wish you could join us for dinner, but Vegas is a long way off. Have you lived there long? I will be away from the computer until Monday; I need a break from the craziness of the stock market and all the other news. I will be thinking about you and I hoping that you will feel better soon.
I went through so many years of severe depression as a teenager, so it makes me sad to think you experience anything like that.
Eric
Forseegood: No offense at all! Points well taken. Considering I might still be continuing treatment as this is not a constant thing, I think i may need to learn how to deal with the delusions without getting myself in any trouble. Many thanks.
Eric:
Two of our best here relapsed today. Heartbreaking.
I've lived here three years. it's a pit, really. moved out from CA after the dot.com bubble burst to save the tax money, etc.
Good for you on your computer holiday and thanks for your thoughts of me. Let's also think/pray/meditate for Cirq and Myown.
xo
deb
Eric:
Two of our best here relapsed today. Heartbreaking.
I've lived here three years. it's a pit, really. moved out from CA after the dot.com bubble burst to save the tax money, etc.
Good for you on your computer holiday and thanks for your thoughts of me. Let's also think/pray/meditate for Cirq and Myown.
xo
deb
You have a lot of courage to talk about pysch issues. I think it's wonderful and reassuring to others who might be going through the same thing. Sad day is right.....I need to be on here more to offer comfort and support. I'm always involved in some kind of home or work project and I need to reprioritize. My family got so tired of me being on the forum so much that I'm trying to give time back to them now. I will try to be a better friend to all, I got so much warmth and strength and camraderie here, I wish I could return the favor a thousand times over. I'm just kind of lost now, not knowing who 1/2 the people are. I'll do better....
Hugs, Prayers,
Bug
Hugs, Prayers,
Bug
thanks for saying that. I feel like to have a community here i should be as open as possible. Plus maybe someone else feels that too and they won't feel so alone. email me if you want a rundown on who's who. debfromca and that is at hotmail dot com.
it aint' easy though, my dear bug. I betcha money some folks might think I'm just a nutcase. Saundra, Dr. Gish's nurse, told me that she'd seen lots of patients have delusional issues and that she herself had a real problem with delusions when she was on a 60 mg dose of prednisone for bad asthma.
thanks for your thoughts. There are prayers going out all over the world tonight through my Church (Crystal Cathedral) and through my fellow crisis counselors at church.
I know not everyone is Christian and that doesn't matter. Good thoughts are the same as good prayers and no matter what you believe, they are coming you way.
I have never met a more courageous group of people, nor have I been prouder to know such people.
deb
it aint' easy though, my dear bug. I betcha money some folks might think I'm just a nutcase. Saundra, Dr. Gish's nurse, told me that she'd seen lots of patients have delusional issues and that she herself had a real problem with delusions when she was on a 60 mg dose of prednisone for bad asthma.
thanks for your thoughts. There are prayers going out all over the world tonight through my Church (Crystal Cathedral) and through my fellow crisis counselors at church.
I know not everyone is Christian and that doesn't matter. Good thoughts are the same as good prayers and no matter what you believe, they are coming you way.
I have never met a more courageous group of people, nor have I been prouder to know such people.
deb
Oh shoot Deb... You're freaking normal... I have those kind of thoughts all the time.
They come --- last a few seconds and then they melt away.
It changes for me... one minute it's the pilot light on the heater - I just know if I don't get out of the room it's gonna blow up. Or I know a fly flew up my nose...
Completely irrational thoughts --- but they do go away. They change.
What I think it is - is that people who are "smart" or "creative" or are able to see a rational conclusion to every story --- they see the "possibilities" and the mind just sort of focuses on worst case scenarios.
Like an overactive imagination or something. You see all of the possibilities - but you irrationally think of the worst case scenario.
I am not sure if hormones or adrenalin have anything to do with it.
But it's not unusual for people to have those thoughts.
The unusual thing is when you can't stop thinking about them --- and they continue on. And you have no control over it --- after you think it through--- and you CANNOT change the "subject" ---- and just let it go. --- And then it causes panic.
That's when it's abnormal.
But the thoughts alone --- nothing abnormal about it... I mean... Heck --- look at Stephen King... LOL! He comes up with all of that stuff --- but he writes it down to scare others.
So - you're not alone sweetie - everyone has those ODD thoughts floating. It's how we process the world.
Another example are COPS. They are trained to think that each person they meet is going to kill them and that everyone is a criminal. More than one cop has broken - or had delusions of their family members being the same way --- becoming paranoid. It's not unusual.
The brain works in mysterious ways... But deb - I think you're ok.
IFN can do some nasty stuff to the neural pathways - make you think that what you're thinking is 'normal' --- even when your rational mind is screaming --- no no no no no it's not.
Just hang in there - and know if it gets bad --- get somewhere immediately - OK?
Hugs --- love you - and hope you'll be ok.
Sheesh --- And ANDI --- I called you RON earlier.. Dunno what's up with my brain. LMAO!
Sorry...
Meki
They come --- last a few seconds and then they melt away.
It changes for me... one minute it's the pilot light on the heater - I just know if I don't get out of the room it's gonna blow up. Or I know a fly flew up my nose...
Completely irrational thoughts --- but they do go away. They change.
What I think it is - is that people who are "smart" or "creative" or are able to see a rational conclusion to every story --- they see the "possibilities" and the mind just sort of focuses on worst case scenarios.
Like an overactive imagination or something. You see all of the possibilities - but you irrationally think of the worst case scenario.
I am not sure if hormones or adrenalin have anything to do with it.
But it's not unusual for people to have those thoughts.
The unusual thing is when you can't stop thinking about them --- and they continue on. And you have no control over it --- after you think it through--- and you CANNOT change the "subject" ---- and just let it go. --- And then it causes panic.
That's when it's abnormal.
But the thoughts alone --- nothing abnormal about it... I mean... Heck --- look at Stephen King... LOL! He comes up with all of that stuff --- but he writes it down to scare others.
So - you're not alone sweetie - everyone has those ODD thoughts floating. It's how we process the world.
Another example are COPS. They are trained to think that each person they meet is going to kill them and that everyone is a criminal. More than one cop has broken - or had delusions of their family members being the same way --- becoming paranoid. It's not unusual.
The brain works in mysterious ways... But deb - I think you're ok.
IFN can do some nasty stuff to the neural pathways - make you think that what you're thinking is 'normal' --- even when your rational mind is screaming --- no no no no no it's not.
Just hang in there - and know if it gets bad --- get somewhere immediately - OK?
Hugs --- love you - and hope you'll be ok.
Sheesh --- And ANDI --- I called you RON earlier.. Dunno what's up with my brain. LMAO!
Sorry...
Meki
I just want you to know I have alot of respect for you and it helps me to hear what you have to say. Thank you.
Yvonne
Yvonne
Thanks for sharing your unpleasant thoughts. It will help a lot of people here. I appreciate your candid attitude. God bless you.
GrandmaA
GrandmaA
Well, Mek, I guess I'm not used to having those thoughts insert themselves like that. Good news is none since thursday! and "OK" if that happens
Lady: hopefully it helps others.
Grandma: Thank you. I try to be candid. i am taking an online course at Fuller Theological as prep for a clinical pastor program i want to be starting after treatment and i figure if you're going to be "there" for patients, you have to "be there" with friends too, warts and all...
deb
Lady: hopefully it helps others.
Grandma: Thank you. I try to be candid. i am taking an online course at Fuller Theological as prep for a clinical pastor program i want to be starting after treatment and i figure if you're going to be "there" for patients, you have to "be there" with friends too, warts and all...
deb
OK --- LOL!
You go girl --- and heck --- you could start writing about them --- they might make good stories... Who knows... You'll be Deborah Nevada --- the new Mystery, Thriller, Horror, Suspense Writer!
Hugs sweetie.
Meki
You go girl --- and heck --- you could start writing about them --- they might make good stories... Who knows... You'll be Deborah Nevada --- the new Mystery, Thriller, Horror, Suspense Writer!
Hugs sweetie.
Meki
Well I'm another one who doesn't think you're crazy! I think, as ohers have said, that it is reassuring that you realise these thoughts are not realistic shortly after having them. I have struggled with all kinds of strange thought processes- mainly obsessive, repetitive thoughts centered onthe fer that something horrible was going to happen to my loved ones. I ould wake up and immediately the thought would flood my mind, overcoming me with misery. I could not make them go away or "snap out of it". It was a living hell. Funny thing, it was worse than ever when once I got on a heavy med for opiate addiction. I added Prozac to the mix for a while and that seemed to knock something in my brain back into place. I stopped the Prozac over a year ago- still on the other med- and for the most part I'm OK. But whenever a sad thought comes thru- scares the sh$t outta me.
Deb, I always love reading your posts cuz you're so real and make so much sense. I know you'll be OK, it's just that our minds are mysterious things and I believe meds do kinda "move" stuff around in there. You've done many people a great service by posting about this.
Prayers and best wishes to you,
Dee
Deb, I always love reading your posts cuz you're so real and make so much sense. I know you'll be OK, it's just that our minds are mysterious things and I believe meds do kinda "move" stuff around in there. You've done many people a great service by posting about this.
Prayers and best wishes to you,
Dee
I apoligize- I was just reading your post more thoroughly and realized I copied your "mysterious" phrase about minds. Didn't mean to- maybe we think alike?
-Dee
-Dee
I am back after a three day sail on a friends boat who really is rich! Imagine a sailboat where everything is push button; push a button and the mainsail is set, push another and the jib is set. The shower is nicer than in most houses I have owned. See - everything is relative, this guy makes me feel poor - LOL.
I am more relaxed, having taken my shot yesterday and a lorazipam last night. I am a little out of it this morning, since lorazipam leaves me hung over.
The real reason I am posting is to see if you are feeling better. I hope you are starting to laugh at things again.
Eric
I am more relaxed, having taken my shot yesterday and a lorazipam last night. I am a little out of it this morning, since lorazipam leaves me hung over.
The real reason I am posting is to see if you are feeling better. I hope you are starting to laugh at things again.
Eric
Eric, wish I could join you and NYG for dinner but give her huge hugs for me too please?
OH I WISH SO MUCH YOU COULD BE HERE TOO, IF ANYTHING WE COULD MAKE EACH OTHER LAUGH TILL WE WORRIED WE WERE CHOKING TOGETHER OR SOMETHING RIGHT?
Just remember Deb this too SHALL pass. I keep saying that over and over and over and over hoping one day it will sink in. At least your problems are INTERFERON related (for sure) and you know they WILL go away! It doesn't make it any easier in the here and now but.....it WILL get there so hang on my friend!
the mind is such a powerful thing - stay away from scary movies for a while...I read the name stephen king above and just thought to myself wow...getting caught in a delusion with ANYTHING he's ever written would be WAY too much! Instead...watch George Clooney films...if you are going to be having a problem with anything - let it be that George is at your house just refusing to go home ;)
Deb
OH I WISH SO MUCH YOU COULD BE HERE TOO, IF ANYTHING WE COULD MAKE EACH OTHER LAUGH TILL WE WORRIED WE WERE CHOKING TOGETHER OR SOMETHING RIGHT?
Just remember Deb this too SHALL pass. I keep saying that over and over and over and over hoping one day it will sink in. At least your problems are INTERFERON related (for sure) and you know they WILL go away! It doesn't make it any easier in the here and now but.....it WILL get there so hang on my friend!
the mind is such a powerful thing - stay away from scary movies for a while...I read the name stephen king above and just thought to myself wow...getting caught in a delusion with ANYTHING he's ever written would be WAY too much! Instead...watch George Clooney films...if you are going to be having a problem with anything - let it be that George is at your house just refusing to go home ;)
Deb
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