no joke: possible cure?

[elkeism]

Dear Expert, I may have found a way, through varius means, to get herpes anti-bodies to better recognize/attack the virus-possibly eradicating it. I recently had an uncharacteristicly mild outbreak after years of this approach, at which point I decided to try prompting another outbreak by eating arginine-rich foods.  A month later I had another uncharacteristicly mild yet very different outbreak as I've primary and secondary sites. (the details of these 2 outbreaks I'll describe if you deem it helpfull)
So, I've 2 questions:
1) Is there a test to show a total irradication of the virus?-I gather if my approach has been actually effective,
one would find either an elevated anti-body count (compared to a previous test) or possibly no change-assuming
that anti-bodies wouldn't leave my body altogether if no longer needed.
Or, is it possible with a sophisticated test/look at the virus they might appear changed - having the spikes of the virus embedded in them for example?
2) I've decided to supplement more aggressivly with L-arginine and am wondering what dosage range will likely prompt an outbreak? - I now there are risks involved.- thanks

[nightrocket]

Dear Terri,

Thanks for your feedback re: l-Lysine and l-Arginine. I'll have a look at the study you mentioned.

Peace,

- JC

[gracefromHHP]

Am J Health Syst Pharm. 2001 Feb 15;58(4):298-300, 304. Related Articles, Links "Lysine for management of herpes labialis." by
Tomblin FA Jr, Lucas KH.


this is I believe the article on lysine and herpes that Terri was referring to. It compares all the lysine and herpes research out there and discusses each one.

grace

[crossing_the_bridge]

just to clarify, before i ruin dr.g's good name - he said, "an ASYMPTOMATIC patient w/ a neg biokit has never come back with a pos WB".  And then he offered me the WB. frankly, after acting as if i was positive for a year, and then getting 3 essentially negative results in about 1 1/2 months, i just felt i had done enough.  i still have the option of WB if i change my mind.

The one thing i will say is, the whole experience was very enlightening.  i don't necessarily want to get herpes, but i know my life isn't over if i do.  you, the doctors, and the community all played a part in that, for which you are all to be commended!

and you are right about lab errors being disturbing!  but, since neither of you believes in seroreversion, that's the only explanation.

@nervous - yes, get the biokit &/or the WB.

[Terri Warren, RN, Adult Nurse Practitioner]

If you're comfortable with the test results, then that's what matters.  For Dr. G to say no one has ever had a negative Biokit and a positive western bot may be true for him, but is not true overall.  The sensitivity of Biokit is very good, but not perfect related to western blot, as you may find in the literature.  In your case, since you tested negative by Captia and low positive by herpeselect, you probably aren't infected, I would agree but I couldn't know for certain.  The high positive herpeselect in the past could be lab error for sure, but that means someone was probably told they are negative and you got their test result, which is disturbing indeed!  My position is that if there are inconsistent or low positive or questionable lab results, do a western blot to relax.  If your confidence comes from Dr. G, who is, of course, an excellent herpes specialist held in the highest esteem in the herpes community, then go with that for sure.

Terri

[Nervousxxxxx]

Wow...your testing history sounds very similar to mine and I've never been able to understand it. 2 herpeselects through Quest @ or around 1.10 and two Captias through Labcorp @ or around 3.0. I guess I need to do the WB to know for sure.

[crossing_the_bridge]

i certainly appreciate your opinion, terri.  but, i prefer to go with what i was told by the local nyc "expert", dr. g ( i suspect you know who i mean), which was "an asymptomatic patient w/ a neg biokit has never come back with a pos WB".  i have to believe that his opinion is statistically significant, given his position and the large  number of patients that opted for the f/u WB.  frankly, i didn't feel i needed additional testing to prove what i already suspected.

i concur that a WB would provide the sine qua non, but i just don't feel it's necessary at this point.  

[Terri Warren, RN, Adult Nurse Practitioner]

I definitely think you need a herpes western blot to clarify these discrepant values.
I'm not aware of the medical community endorsing Lysine as a valid treatment for herpes.  There was a metanalysis of several good studies looking at the efficacy of Lysine, and no statistical benefit was found. I think it was in the Public Health journal literature, you could find it, I'm sure.

Terri

[crossing_the_bridge]

thank you for that explanation. and, here, i thought i might be unique. :-D

i will assume that my initial captia positive (5.84) was lab error, confirmed by a herpeselect ("positive") that was actually a "low positive" or "false positive".  because 1 year later, captia was negative, herpeselect only 1.14, and biokit was negative.

i think the lab error scenario makes more sense.

thanks for your expertise!

[nightrocket]

Dear Terri,

Thanks for your valued presence here on MedHelp :^)

Just to verify this important point as there is much literature that asserts otherwise...

L-Lysine DOES NOT reduce the frequency of outbreak and L-Arginine DOES NOT  feed/promote herpes outbreaks?

Why do some in the medical community believe that these amino acids do, indeed, have that impact?

Thanks again! And peace.

- JC

[Terri Warren, RN, Adult Nurse Practitioner]

Good question.  It has been documented before, but what has been seen is that low positives may dip into the negative level when tested by ELISA but the same patients don't serorevert when measured by western blot.  Comparing apples and apples, rather than apples and oranges, I guess.

terri

[crossing_the_bridge]

then, you don't believe in seroreversion?  does anyone?  i couldn't locate any scientific articles pertaining to the subject.

[Terri Warren, RN, Adult Nurse Practitioner]

If you had cleared the virus, then I guess you wouldn't have antibody anymore as there would be no virus to stimulate its production although since no one clears the virus, I honestly can't answer that question. Have you ever had a positive antibody test?  And I have no idea about arginine dosing, you get plenty of it in foods.  Its important for other readers to know that there is no research to show that in PEOPLE, there is no relationship between outbreaks and either of these amino acids, lysine or arginine.  

Having said that, I do not believe that anyone clears this virus, ever.  We do know that people traditionally have milder outbreaks over time.  

I don't mean to sound so discouraging, but we have many years of science backing this opinion, it isn't just my personal thoughts.  And I don't want others to read this post and believe that somehow, they are cured.  There just isn't any evidence for that.  For you, personally, if no one else is at risk of infection from you, you can certainly do whatever works for you and experiment as you wish.  But if there is someone at risk of acquiring your herpes from a sexual contact, you need to think very carefully about your behaviors and your decisions, I think.

My best to you.

Terri