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connection between CP and PVL

I know i have asked you many a question about my daughters diagnosis, but i still have some queries. I find it confusing to work out the connection between things, the CP and PVL, although i have read that infants with PVL do later go on to develop some form of CP. If the only noted damage on the MRI is to the white matter of the brain, how does this relate to CP, as I  thought CP was an injury to a specific area, like the cerebellum or the cortex. Given that she has low muscle tone, what area of that brain would that signify the injury being at??? Is that the PVL?? I just don't know how it all connects, or am I just stressing too much over this point?? What type of CP does that mean she has, or is it still "mild" CP? How rare is the hypotonia type?? And what is it??

Again, and I know you answered this, but just for reference, the report says:
"Myelination appears slightly delayed for the patients age with relatively high signal in the region of the arouate fibres in the occipital lobes on FLAIR and T2 weighted imaging. Note is also made of prominent terminal zones adjacent to the trigones of the lateral ventricles. The cerebral sulci and sylvian fissures appear slightly prominent consistent with relative reduction in white matter volume.Everything else mormal Features are consistent with delayed myelination, particularly posteriorly."

"The pathways that signals for extension might not work well and the fingers can't open very well or some of them can and some can't. That means when the brain tells the hand to "do it's thing" the only muscles which work well are the flexor and the hand or fingers will flex instead of extend.

The other possibility is that the pathway for the inhibitory signal is damaged. In this case the hand has to work very hand to extend out, because the tone in the flexing muscles never gets the signal to relax. "   In your last message you said this in relation to my asking the possibility of the weakness she seems to have in her little fingers. Is it possible that this could be  caused by the disruption of the signals going from the brain to the muscles resulting from the PVL?

In your opinion, is it possible to have hypotonia without having CP, as being a result of the PVL?? I am just all confused.
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Avatar universal
HER BIO MOM ALSO HAS A FORM OF AUTISM, ASPERGERS. COULD THIS BE IN ANYWAY RELATED? HER FAMILY HISTORY (BABY) IS, MOM, GR.MOM AND GR.DAD AND UNCLE ARE MENTALLY CHALLENGED.PLUD THE ASPERGERS OF THE MOM. BLESS HER HEART SHE HAS A HISTORY STACKED AGAINST HER MENTALLY, BUT SHE AT 10 MONTHS SEEMS MENTALLY ALERT AND HAPPY.
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Avatar universal
I HAVE ADOPTED A DAUGHTER WHO IS NOW 10 MONTHS.HER BIO-MOM IS MENTALLY CHALLENGED(WE ADOPTED HER ALSO).WE GOT THEM WHEN THE BABY WAS 8 WEEKS OLD. WE KNEW SHE HAD BEEN SHAKEN ON SEVERAL OCCASSIONS BY HER BIO FATHER. HER PED.DR. SAID SHE LOOKED FINE.WE WERE INVOLED WITH CHILDRENS SERVICES WHEN WE FIRST GOT THEM.THE SOCIAL WORKERS ALWAYS ASKED IF SHE WAS ALWAYS SMILING. THEY ACTED LIKE THIS WAS SOMETHING WRONG.SHE HAS ALWAYS SMILED AND LOOKED DIRECTLY INTO YOUR EYES.AT 5 MONTHS SHE WASNT ROLLING OVER  OR HOLDING HER BOTTLE. MY HUSBAND SAID  WE SPOILED HER AND SHE DIDNT HAVE TO HOLD HER BOTTLE.. THEN SHE SUDDENLY DEVELOPED REFLUX (SHE IS ON ZANTAC) WHICH IS UNDER CONTROL AS LONG AS WE GIVE HER ZANTAC.AT 6 MON. SHE ROLLED.BUT BEGAN HAVING LITTLE "CHILL-LIKE" TREMMORS,MAINLY HEAD AND UPPER BODY. SHE HAS HAD AS MANY AS 15 A DAY.SHE IS VERY ALERT AND HAPPY , LAUGHS, BEGINNING TO SAY DA-DA AND SQUELLS LIKE A BANSHEE,SHE IS HOLDING HER BOTTLE BETTER. SHE MAKES NO EFFORT TO CRAWL,SHE ROLLS ALL OVE RTHE PLACE. IN HER BABY EINSTEIN SAUCER, SHE WILL STAND UP.FOR THE LAST MONTH SHE HAS STARTED HAVINGSOMETHING GOING ON,SHE SEEMS TO GET QUITE FOR A FEW MINTUES AND CROSSES HER ANKLES AND DRAWS THEM UP TOWARD HER STOMACH.SEEMS SHE DRAWS UP ON THE RIGHT SIDE LEANING HER HEAD ON HER RIGHT SHOULDER AND STARES AND ROCKS FORWARD. WE CALL HER NAME AND AFTER A FEW MINUTES SHE RETURNS TO NORMAL AND LAUGHS AT US.
YES, HER PED.DR. HAS ALL THIS INFO.FINALLY SHE SENT US TO HAVE A CAT SCAN. IT SHOWED ON SIDE OF THE VENTRICLE IN HER BRAIN IS ENLARGED.(HER HEAD SIZE IS NORMAL) AND THE OTHER SIDE IS IS ATROPY(SMALLER).WE HAVEN'T GOT THE RESULTS BACK FROM HER EEG DONE LAST WEEK.WE HAVE A SEDATED MRI TO BE DONE IN 2 WEEKS. THE DR. WONT TELL ME ANYTHING.ANY POSSIBLE THINGS WE COULD BE LOOKING FOR. TO BE MORE CLEAR LEFT SIDE VENT. IS SMALL, THE LEFT IS ENLARGED. SHE IS SLOW IN HER MOTOR SKILLS BUT STRONG AS A BULL.SHE HAS JUST THIS WEEK LEARNED TO PATTY-CAKE. I AM SICK !!! WITH WORRY AND LOST ON THIS INTERNET AS TO WHERE TO LOOK FOR POSSIBLE ANSWERS. OR THE THINGS WE COULD BE LOOKING AT IN THE FUTURE, CAN ANYONE GIVE ME A  HEADS UP ON WHERE TO LOOK?   THANKS T.
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Avatar universal
Thank you for all that info, it has helped to ease my mind, as I always worried that maybe it was the jaundice.

Just to have a little vent, and I know you have not said this, the very opposite in fact, but I know I am not a bad, negligent mum. I did the best I could. I have faced this challenge alone. You know, I was having a little baby, of whom was a huge shock to my system as I already had 3 little ones to care for, and I did all I possibly ever could for my kiddies, I always do, I live for them. I had my little Hannah the week after I moved into my new home, in a new area. My husband was working an hour and a half away and I never saw him. It was Christmas time, I had 4 kids at home for 6 weeks, sometimes I had 6!!! In the midst of trying to amuse 3 kids, I had to try and wake this sleepy baby to feed her every hour or 2. It was a real task, it was the middle of summer, I was stuck at home, I didn't know anyone, the closest baby clinic was 30 minutes drive into town. I often thought how great it was that she slept so much!!!! Isn't that terrible?? But it was easy for me at times.

I was a little concerned when she didn't pass her 6 week check because she wasn't smiling, but it was no huge drama because she smiled at 2 months and they were happy with that. I always worried that she was not gaining weight, but they told me it was best to keep breastfeeding her, even though she would spew all over me and then fall asleep. I would have to shower us both to clean us. When she wasn't rolling at 5 months I was getting worried and realized she was behind my other kids. When they told me I should take her to a paediatrician, I was straight onto it, and when I was told I would have to wait 3 months, I knew that she could not wait that long, that she needed some immediate care. So the next week I was driving for 4 hours with 4 kiddies, to see a doctor. By 6 months she had been reviewed, and seeing a physio, and by 9 months, when she would have seen the doc if I had of waited, she had seen the neuro and was in an early intervention program. I have driven so many miles taking her to see doctors because the wait locally is toooo long. I have always sought the best for my kiddies, and my little Hannah has been a constant source of  my worry, although she is the most beautiful little girl of whom I would never give up for the world. Once, I remember thinking how I wished that she could stay a baby forever, until I was told that she may never walk, I knew that I wanted to do all I could for her. I have got to have her a little soft, cuddly baby for a bit longer, but she is getting stronger. My Hannah has such a determined little nature and she set out from the start to prove them all wrong. She is an amazing baby and she concentrated all her efforts on a given task until she mastered it. Her brain always knew what it wanted to do, and she was determined to make her body do it. Her therapists were so amazed, and so was her Mummy, when at her last assessment at 16 months, she just stood up and walked!!! But she did move half the house in her practicing!!!!!

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Avatar universal
Thank you for all that info, it has helped to ease my mind, as I always worried that maybe it was the jaundice.

Just to have a little vent, and I know you have not said this, the very opposite in fact, but I know I am not a bad, negligent mum. I did the best I could. I have faced this challenge alone. You know, I was having a little baby, of whom was a huge shock to my system as I already had 3 little ones to care for, and I did all I possibly ever could for my kiddies, I always do, I live for them. I had my little Hannah the week after I moved into my new home, in a new area. My husband was working an hour and a half away and I never saw him. It was Christmas time, I had 4 kids at home for 6 weeks, sometimes I had 6!!! In the midst of trying to amuse 3 kids, I had to try and wake this sleepy baby to feed her every hour or 2. It was a real task, it was the middle of summer, I was stuck at home, I didn't know anyone, the closest baby clinic was 30 minutes drive into town. I often thought how great it was that she slept so much!!!! Isn't that terrible?? But it was easy for me at times.

I was a little concerned when she didn't pass her 6 week check because she wasn't smiling, but it was no huge drama because she smiled at 2 months and they were happy with that. I always worried that she was not gaining weight, but they told me it was best to keep breastfeeding her, even though she would spew all over me and then fall asleep. I would have to shower us both to clean us. When she wasn't rolling at 5 months I was getting worried and realised she was behind my other kids. When they told me I should take her to a paediatrician, I was straight onto it, and when I was told I would have to wait 3 months, I knew that she could not wait that long, that she needed some immediate care. So the next week I was driving for 4 hours with 4 kiddies, to see a doctor. By 6 months she had been reviewed, and seeing a physio, and by 9 months, when she would have seen the doc if I had of waited, she had seen the neuro and was in an early intervention program. I have driven so many miles taking her to see doctors because the wait locally is toooo long. I have always sought the best for my kiddies, and my little Hannah has been a constant source of  my worry, although she is the most beautiful little girl of whom I would never give up for the world. Once, I remember thinking how I wished that she could stay a baby forever, until I was told that she may never walk, I knew that I wanted to do all I could for her. I have got to have her a little soft, cuddly baby for a bit longer, but she is getting stronger. My Hannah has such a determined little nature and she set out from the start to prove them all wrong. She is an amazing baby and she concentrated all her efforts on a given task until she mastered it. Her brain always knew what it wanted to do, and she was determined to make her body do it. Her therapists were so amazed, and so was her Mummy, when at her last assessment at 16 months, she just stood up and walked!!! But she did move half the house in her practicing!!!!!

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147426 tn?1317265632
Oh, sweetie, there is no evidence that you missed anything.  They were weighing the baby and the excessive weight loss and slow weight gain should have sent alarms off in each nurse's head - or in the doctor that reviewed their notes!!!  It does you or your daughter NO GOOD to feel any guilt for this!!  (though I know one always feels responsible for anything, anything that happens to our kids.  That's what makes you a Mom!)

Your daughter's MRI doesn't show the kind of damage seen in brain damage from high bilirubin.  Nor does she have the characteristic stiff, writhing muscle movements usually seen from bilirubin damage, a condition called "kernicterus."

But, your story about how it all happened really does sound like something happened in utero.  That she was limp and fed poorly from the very beginning is the best evidence of this.  Term baby's may be a little sleepy or worn out for 12 hours or so after labor and delivery, but when they get hungry they demand food!  A huge number of mothers are on meds (like narcotics for pain) that could make the babies a little sleepy, but it doesn't cause complete disinterest in feeding.  No, it sounds like she was limp and somnolent from the very beginning.  Your nightmare was not the cause of her problems, I don't think.  It was the beginning of having to deal with a baby that already had a serious neurologic injury.

In studies of huge numbers (10's of 1000's) of kids with CP, in only about 20% can the cause be determined. Lots of things can happen while a baby is developing.

You can't hold this against yourself.  Your care for her after birth is likely why she is responding so well to therapy and making the great improvements that you've seen.  It's not fair when things like this happen, but it's not your fault.

Be kind to hourself.  A mother racked with guilt cannot give fully what a baby really needs.  Happy, confident, secure love.  Be at peace with yourself.  Quix
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Avatar universal
Thankyou for all your time to explain the terms to me, and for any frustration I may have caused, it is just all so confusing and our paediatrician never really took the time to explain it all or the connection, just that it was a static brain injury. I do guess it does come down to how we see people with a disability, and I have only ever heard of spastic CP. It is becoming much clearer to me now though, so I thankyou for helping me to understand.

How did she become so dehydrated?? It is a little hard to believe isn't it?? I didn't actually know, until discharge, and even then, they didn't seem concerned. She lost 400 grams in 3 days though!! She was very sleepy in hospital, she didn't wake for feeds, I thought it was a result of the medication I was on, they didn't say any differently. She was discharged on day 3, and when the home nurse came on day 5, I think, she said she was very badly jaundice, which they never mentioned at the hospital. She just slept all the time, she could sleep for 6-8 hour periods if left without waking up, and even then she wouldn't feed. I had to wake her every hour to feed her, which was impossible because it was like she was unconscious, of which they said was normal for jaundice. They said her jaundice didn;t need treating.I had her weighed every couple of days, she gained weight incredibly slowly, sometimes not at all, and the jaundice didn't fully resolve until 4 or 5 weeks, which is when she finally woke up, and when she was back at her birth weight.

It sounds really dumb probably, but I didn't know. I did all they told me and they said there was nothing to worry about, until at around 6 months when they said she needed a pediatric review because she wasn't reaching her milestones. I was very concerned then and I drove for 4 hours to take her to a paediatrician because the wait locally was 3 months.

Is it possible that the injury could be a result of this??? They told me no, that it would have happened in the womb, or maybe that is just to cover their arses??  I hope it wasn't in any way my fault, that is terrible, I did all they told me to do. OMG, I should have known better, she was my 4th baby, a mother should know, but I honestly didn't.
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147426 tn?1317265632
I should say that what I gave you is "my" definition of CP from my experience and from what I was taught.  You daughter's doctors may disagree and not want to label her.  That's okay.  Using the label of CP or not using it doesn't change the essential facts.  Your daughter has a problem and you are doing everything you can to deal with it no matter what name you put to it.

May I ask, after she was born, how did it happen that she became so dehydrated and lost 30% of her weight?  If that's too sensitive, of course you don't have to answer at all.  Quix
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147426 tn?1317265632
Can you believe it!?  I got your name right.  My eyes dancing often juxtapsoe words and letters, I'm sorry for all the prior misspellings.

I'm afraid I have added to your confusion about the terminology.  I'm going to state it a little more bluntly.  Here are several statements.  Read them all and see if there is more sense.

Her MRI shows brain scarring (PVL).  Early brain damage causes CP

Your child has CP with mostly features of low muscle tone.


Cerebral Palsy just means the "effect of early brain damage on the ability of the body tomove."  Period.  In my mind your daughter's hypotonia is her effect of the brain damage she suffered.  Hypotonia is the way her CP shows up.

We always picture a stiff, spastic uncoordinated person when we think of CP, but that is just a stereotype.  CP has thousands of ways it can show up (hypotonia, hypertonia, weakness, paralysis, uncoordination, crossed eyes, drooling, mild or severe clumsiness ---anything and any problem may be very mild or very severe) depending on the kind, extent and location of the early brain damage.  Every child with CP is different.  Some have barely noticeable problems,
************************
Here is a definition of Cerebral Palsy from the National Institutes of Health:

What is Cerebral Palsy?

""The term cerebral palsy refers to any one of a number of neurological disorders that appear in infancy or early childhood and permanently affect body movement and muscle coordination but don
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