Frottage Question

[LM56]

Was at a strip club the other night and the girl pulled my pants down and danced on me.  She had her back to me and my penis was in front of her as I could feel the stubble from her shaved genitals on me (not pleasant).  That lasted for about 30 seconds or so and then she finished with a hand job.  A couple of questions:

1) I know from reading this forum that the risk is fairly low of any STD, but my question mainly concerns HSV.  I have seen around here that the transmission rate is somewhere in the 1/1000 area even if the person is infected and lesions are present.  It was kind of dark, but I don't think she had any obvious lesions (probably not good for business at a strip club).  Does that even lower the risk of HSV transmission?

2) I also have read symptoms tend to show up any where from 3 day to 2 weeks.  But have also read that "most" new infections show up within 3-5 days.  What is "most", like 75%?  And if I get to day 5 with no symptoms, given the low risk expsoure would you say I am pretty much in the clear?

3) Lastly, I assume you see no need to abstain from intercourse with my wife?

[Edward W Hook, MD]

1.  Nausea, diarrhea and abdominal cramping are not symptoms of any STD and would not have appeared just 36 hours after exposure.  If you had flu-like symptoms due to HSV, you could expect to have lesions as well.

2.  I think you are pushing this, trying for answers that do not exist on the basis of carefully conducted studies.  No change in my answer and I am sure Dr. Handsfield would agree.  Certainly symptoms can appear early but hey do not need to.  The transmission figure I mentioned is an estimate arrived at by experts, including myself and Dr. Handsfield.  As you might imagine however, there is simply no way to study this issue.

EWH

[LM56]

Thanks Dr. Just a couple of follow-ups.

1) I have been experiencing some stomach issues (i.e naseau, diaharrea, cramping etc) but those are not symptoms of anything I could have caught right?  And they certainly wouldn't start withing 36 hours right?  I know they say HSV can give you flu like symptoms but aren't lesions almost always present with the flu symptoms?

2) Lastly, it appears as if Dr. Hansfield is more in the 3-5 day camp with initial outbreaks of HSV, is that just based on his experiance as you point out the data is iffy?  Likewise the 1 in a 1000 rate of transmission of HSV with lesions present, is that just based on experience?  Not insinuating at all that your experince is not enough, to me it is, but was just wondering.

Thanks.

[Edward W Hook, MD]

Welcome back to the Forum.  I'll address your questions.

The activity that you describe falls into our "no penetration, no risk" category for common STDs such as gonorrhea and chlamydia, as well as for HIV.  As for herpes, this virus can be transmitted through direct contact so penetration is not required but there is little risk of infection from a brief contact of the sort you describe.  In general, if no lesions are present, your risk for infection will be, if anything, lower than 1 in 1000 and, given how brief the contact was, substantially lower.

As for what proportion of HSV presents in the 3-5 day after contact range vs. longer, that is hard to say.  The data are lacking.  If you get beyond 10 days without lesions I would guess that the risk falls off very quickly but there are no data to be sure about this.  

I would not be worried about having gotten infected if I were you and thus would not feel the need to abstain from sex with your wife.  EWH