Did you suceed in curing depression

[therese83]

Hi

I have and still do take all the supplements !  I have a bookshelf full of self help books as well.  For me it is my nature, to be quiet and nervous and Highly sensitive, i feel, combined with life triggers and severe stress violence in my childhood etc.

Did anyone really succeed in curing depression with an alternative treatment.

I am watching my friend here who was hospitalized with severed depression after marriage breakup, she was also sexually abused as a child and she is spending a fortune on an alternative health practitioner and she is "feeling her feelings", through Art therapy etc, the results are amazing,  She is off her medication now, she suffered through withdrawals, she is amazing.  Now she is alone without children, no job so can spend 24 - 7 focusing on this, has the cash !  

But as i say it is expensive, has anyone had any other good results with supplements?

[jusand]

I've in the process of recovering from depression and anxiety with AT. I did not turn to some holy religion or anything like that. I used omega 3, magnesium, Johns wort and b-vitamins. Along with hypnotherapy (which took the depression, but not the nerves/anxiety), EFT and Cognitive therapy I've started to understand and see a "way out". But it takes time and a lot of hard work. If you want to read more, see my post:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/Have-anyone-else-had-success-with-magnesium--omega-3-and-self-hypnosis/show/1716865#post_7860591

[avasgrammmy]

The world we live in today is so very stressful and difficult and I dont care who it is, we are all effected by it. I believe that God is the only real solution and he has lovingly provided us with the Bible to show us the way. Jehovahs Witnesses came to my door and offered to study the Bible with me and in the beginning I was confused about a lot of things but as I continued to study I began to understand why the world is in such a mess and why there is so much suffering. I learned so much and now my whole life has turned around. We are never going to be totally free of problems but I can say one thing, when God is in your life and you live your life for him not only will you be so much happier but you will have peace. I learned that when we pray for his Kingdom to come and his will to take place on the earth as it is in heaven as Jesus taught his followers to pray, we are asking for his rulership to take place over us. Under his rule we will see the conditions that are described at Revelation 21: 3,4 and Isaiah 11:6-9 and many other things. I would love to say more but if you want to learn and see for yourself, JW's offer free home bible studies to anyone who wants to learn. Best Wishes to you.    

[RubyWitch]

Paxiled,
I am here ONLY to reply to your statement below:

"But Ryan on the psychopharmacology group can explain this better since he has a much better background in that subject."

Ryan will no longer be posting psychopharmacological advice on MH in any forum or group as per HIS decision.

Thank you,
Greenlydia

[Paxiled]

It happens on most threads where substance about people's questions is involved.  Many of us disagree on things, and much of the info posted on the internet in general and on here is partially or wholly inaccurate.  Some people who are more knowledgeable will often step in and make corrections, which can start a back and forth.  Nothing wrong with that, there is much that is unknown, but the arguments come about because we're all trying to help, not hurt, and incorrect info can not only hurt the person trying to act on it, but also hinder research by confusing terms.  If you google the wrong term because someone misled you, you won't find what you're looking for.  As I say, this happens on all the forums I frequent, which are several.  We're just trying to get you the best info we can.

[therese83]

Thanks for your advice and very interesting posts.

BTW, you should never turn anyone's thread (looking for advice) into an argument between 2 people.  ;-)  This keeps happening her and i dont know why.  I like your posts and will follow it all up.

[margypops]

Yes sorry theresa for hi jacking your thread  I have had good results as I said above, a couple of years ago I did try Sam-E and found that helpful at the time , also 5HTP lifted ones mood .. Sam_E has been used for a long time in Europe there is a lot of information about it, it did make me feel better , I dont take anything now except the muiti vitamin and omega 3 ..

[respirate]

Popular Drugs May Help Only Severe Depression
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/health/views/06depress.html

[margypops]

Dont anyone leave.... you are all great, I come by most days to read your posts you have helped me beyond measure and I mean you aswell Pax I found your post above very informative, as always ..Its folks like you that give us hope and help ,we need you all. You know I have started taking multi supplements again and they seem to be helping me a lot I have been sensitive to some but these are doing the trick that and being really busy selling my house myself ..I feel better with more enrgy than I have in ages .......

[Paxiled]

No,  I wasn't disagreeing with you on the effect ssris and snris have on neurotransmitters; you're absolutely correct about that.  These drugs do work very often.  My point was only that they don't work by creating more serotonin; in a way, they actually work by creating less, because as they prevent serotonin from being broken down as it would naturally, many serotonin receptors in the brain shut down because the brain determines they're no longer necessary.  It's thought that this is one of the reasons for the brain zaps and some other withdrawal symptoms when one quits an ssri or snri or tricyclic -- it's those dormant serotonin receptors waking up because they're needed again.  So yes, reusing old serotonin has proved to help many people, though with medication's usual array of unanticipated or intentionally obfuscated side effects, but there is still no medical evidence that anyone has more or less serotonin to begin with.  That's an indication that, although using serotonin more intensively might help, it turned out not to be the root of the problem as was thought when Prozac first hit the market.  In alternative med, this is important because of the use of tryptophan or its metabolite 5-HTP.  Many people thing taking 5-htp works because it makes more serotonin, since that's the amino acid the body uses to make it, but more likely is that it helps the body to make the same amount but more efficiently so it's used more efficiently.  But Ryan on the psychopharmacology group can explain this better since he has a much better background in that subject.  As for the battle between the two industries, I agree it would be better if that didn't exist, but it does.  But what also exists is that virtually all research you're likely to be able to find on meds is from pharmaceutical companies, and that includes most of what's taught in med and pharmacy schools.  For profit motives and to avoid getting sued, companies hide information in both industries under the rubric of proprietary information.  

[M4Y0U]

Look there are many conspiracies about the pharmaceutical industry and conspiracies is not a topic that should be talked here as it doesn't help anybody. There are no research that proves the statement he made and he even said it himself. We are here to find cures together and not debate over a dodge ball game between the pharmaceutical industry and the natural or supplement industry. Both parties have companies that make a lot of money. Supplements doesn't make as much as the pharmaceutical industry but still we are not here to demote one or another.

I also read it somewhere that the lack of serotonin was invented by the pharmaceutical industry but i read it on a site that promotes natural ways. Just like some researches done by the pharmaceutical industry will tend to demote the natural industry. It's a fight and we are not here to battle with them as it's not helping anyone here.

What we do know tho is what we know about the neurotransmitters and their effects. There are a lot of studies just about every neurotransmitters and this is not only to make new drugs but to gives us a better understanding of the human brain and gain more control over it. To make such statements I'm using the unbiased knowledge from my neurobiology lectures.

We are not here to battle against each other or support an already existing battle between the pharmaceutical industry and the supplements industry. MedHelp is all about ''finding cures together'' and this is what i what us to concentrate on.

Thanks for your cooperation,
M4

[respirate]

I disagree with you, Pax, should  disagree when his research shows another point.
Who is he bringing down? You have to take all points and then decide what view to take.

[M4Y0U]

We don't want you to stop participating Pax, we just want you to be more positive instead of sometime bringing people down with a bit of negativity and a will to contradictions, that's all and i explained it to you in a PM.

I know there is no evidence because we can't really get into someone's brain and measure serotonin level but the assumption might just be correct but i agree 100% with you on glutamate and the amygdala. I have been doing extensive research on the hypothalamus and glutamate as it was part of a lecture i viewed from the neurobiology course and it does more than being involved in learning and memory and could be a really good mood enhancer. It is very funny you bring that up now because I see my doctor today and I'm getting some Modafinil to help with my glutamate levels ,even tho it might decrease the GABA levels, to help me with my studies and give me extra energy and focus i need without side effects. I used to take amphetamines in the past and i don't want that to happen again.

Your assumption that it is only a theory made up by the pharmaceutical industry is incorrect tho, from what i learned in neurobiology it really does do what it does. The theory is only good if we consider that we have no way to see if someone is really lacking serotonin but we have a bunch of studies on this neurotransmitter just like most neurotransmitters and their impact on moods and behaviors. That's what neuroscience is mostly all about, mood and behavior.

We don't want you to stop participating Pax, we just want you to be more positive instead of bringing people down, that's all!

[Paxiled]

Not to start a new argument just for the sake of argument -- I know people here are angry with me, and I hope to not participate as much.  Not worth the trouble anymore.  But there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone suffering from depression or anxiety has any more or less serotonin than anyone else.  This was a theory made up by pharmaceutical companies to sell their products, but no evidence has ever been found that it's true.  What ssris do is prevent the breakdown of serotonin so the neurons are washed longer in it whereas normal body function would break it down and make more, as the body prefers fresh rather than used serotonin.  That's why the newer research is now focusing on glutamate rather than serotonin for depression and trying to unlock the secrets of the amygdala for anxiety.  We're all, unfortunately, still crawling around in the dark here.  

[M4Y0U]

I agree 100% with that

''Most of us won't do what it takes.  It requires stringent dietary changes, exercise, some practice of mind consciousness (usually meditation), strong motivation which depressed people by definition lack when they're suffering most, and an ever-shifting formula of herbs and amino acids''

Supplements are not like miracle pills. What can cure depression to the root is a combination of everything mentioned by Pax and beyond such a looking for external help such as therapy and let those emotions out.

If you haven't done it yet i encourage you to read a thread where i talk about what can help for depression the natural way and i explain how come it does it. From a neurobiological point of view it's a lack of serotonin that is causing depression and the easy way to raise it it the use of pharmaceuticals. But the natural way can also do such thing but like Pax said it takes motivation and perseverance.

Here have a look at this and see how it is a combination of every little and big things you must do on a daily basis. - http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Alternative-Therapies-Community/The-Importance-of-Healthy-Lifestyle-and-Diet-in-Curing-or-Preventing-Mood-Disorders-and-Physical-Illnesses/show/1130379

Best regards,
M4

[respirate]

Pax I have to say you're a great guy and a great post. I hope you stay around

[Paxiled]

I don't think you "cure" things that are serious and chronic with natural remedies.  Depression seems to be episodic rather than cured.  But allopathic medicine doesn't claim to be able to cure much, either -- it just treats symptoms.  What natural medicine tends to do is make quality of life much better rather than aim for longevity or cures -- it aims to strengthen the body and mind rather than just treat symptoms.  I managed health food stores for 18 years, and I must tell you it took a good 8 years before I felt I knew supplements well enough to counsel customers on their selections.  I listened to the supplement buyers, read books, read trade magazines, read studies, but most of all talked to my customers.  I can tell you of a man who was given six months to live because of a combination of liver disease and diabetes.  I met him 20 years later, still alive, still with liver disease and diabetes, having watched his grandchildren grow up.  He spent a lot of money on supplements; he knew of supplements companies sold that weren't even on their product lists, they were so specialized.  I knew a dentist with cancer who was alive 20 years after being given up for dead by allopathic medicine, still practicing dentistry.  He died of the cancer, but didn't suffer all the draining side effects of allopathic treatment.  I saw people with chronic fatigue, fibromayalgia, systemic candida, depression, anxiety, you name it, who had failed completely with allopathic medicine but found a way to survive through natural medicine.  But here's the catch -- properly using natural medicine for chronic illnesses is extremely difficult.  Most of us won't do what it takes.  It requires stringent dietary changes, exercise, some practice of mind consciousness (usually meditation), strong motivation which depressed people by definition lack when they're suffering most, and an ever-shifting formula of herbs and amino acids -- they change as symptoms change and in the trial and error of finding whether anything will work.  It's hard, takes a long time -- I was, quite frankly, not willing to do it until it was too late and a strange severe Paxil withdrawal had made me have paradoxical reactions to most remedies.  But in other areas, I haven't suffered many of the physiological symptoms most sufferers have because I used herbs prophilactically to protect my body.  Because I was a meditator, I never got the heart palps and breathing difficulties, my blood pressure stayed at an athlete's level, etc.  And for minor ailments I have for the most part been able to deal with them with natural remedies, preventing me from having to take things that have long-lasting consequences such as antibiotics and steroids.  But you also have to use allopathic medicine for what it's best at.  They can give much better diagnoses because of their access to labs and equipment than most natural practitioners, and if you need surgery, of course get it.  So combining all medicine into one is the best choice.  Anyway, this is all very anecdotal and just based on personal experience mostly watching others, but I hope it gives you some hope.  Good luck.