Anxiety or not?

[Little_Miss_Eire]

Hi.  Approx 1yr ago I began feeling extremely tired, fatigued, lost my appetite and just didn't feel right - one major change in me was that I didn't want to go anywhere or didnt want any visitors, I also started having "episodes" which involved feeling nauseous, bouts of diarrhea, fuzzy thinking, massive rushes of negative energy/ adrenal rushes during which I thought I was going to die.
One morning on the way to work, instead of turning right (to get to work) I turned left and went to the docs. He said that he thought I had panic disorder and gave me some Xanax (250) to get over it and arranged for me to see someone for CBT, which I attended but though felt it wa a waste of time as there were/ are no apparent underlying causes. He also tested my thyroid which appeared to be ok on the test results.
I went to see another doctor who gave me antidepressants (Lexapro) even though my mood hadn't changed as such. Blood tests that this doctor did showed my thyroid function as normal but my iron stores as being low - I had been on iron tablets for almost a year at this stage. I took the ADs but they made me worse, on day 3 I cried all day (for no reason) and thought I was really losing my mind; I then stopped taking them and visited a homeopath for acupuncture which really helped.
I've since being seeing another therapist for CBT and continue to take the iron even though it constipates me. The CBT doesn't seem to do anything for me at all. I've being living with my folks since all this began (1yr ago) and really really become anxious about visiting my own house - perhaps this is me associating my house with where it all began? Up until all this started I loved my house and loved being there and having regular visitors there!
Ive had more blood tests a month ago which only revealed low iron stores again, despite the fact that I'm almost 2yrs on iron tablets!!!!! I get really bad PMS and I notice that I suffer from all the sympoms listed in the 1st paragraph around "that time of the month"; my period now lasts 7days and is fairly heavy since all this began.
I suppose my question is "Do I really have anxiety/ panic disorder" or are there other things that I should looking into, i.e. tests/ other causes for me being like this"? Ireland is not proving to be a great place for getting answers from the medical profession - they just seem to keep throwing tranquillisers and antidepressants at me....

Please help!

[Jennifer1987]

Get your thyroid checked ASAP!!!!!

[snoozie522]

Hi Little Miss.
I have had anxiety and panic most of my life. I am now 42.  Recently I was diagnosed with low iron, not anemia, just very low.  I find when my iron is  low, anxiety and fatigue are worse.  Because of the Anxiety history, my physical symptoms were ignored, and my AD meds changed.  Turns out they werent the problem.....A sleeps study showed I was getting less than 10 mins rem sleep a night due to Periodic Limb movements and Restless leg syndrome.  The Sleep Study Doctor told me low iron causes sleep disruption for some people (when Iron (ferritin) is less than 50).  The lack of proper sleep, and the low iron (lack of RBC's) would give me panic like symptoms.  I am now on iron pills for over a year, I still have low iron but my levels are higher than before (from 18 - 25) and I am sleeping better, and having far fewer to almost no panic stymptoms.  There are some articles on low iron causing anxiety symptoms (rapid heart beat), and sleep disturbances.  

[Little_Miss_Eire]

Ive being doing absolutely nothing for the past few days as Ive been exhausted (don't know from what though, only did a little gardening on Thursday).

I have noticed that fatigue seems to be the main thing that sets off my anxiety - any of you experienced that?

Re: my house - I think it's the thought of the travelling to/ from it (fatigue), which in turn sets off my anxiety, which is putting me off returning there...

[barfer]

So don't...get yourself a roommate with whom you are comfortable and see how that goes.  If you get sick of that person, then kick them out and see if you can do it on your own.  Having someone around the house can either be therapeutic or a complete pain in the you know what...but it might be worth a try.  Don't forget, you have all kinds of options open to you.  Try living with a friend for a couple of days, then if it works, try a week, then maybe on a month to month basis. OR  Don't do it at all...figure out what will work for you and go with it, as long as it doesn't mean that you do nothing and therefore get nowhere in your life progress.  Even if you decide to sell the house and live closer to your family, that isn't a bad decision either as long as you are moving forward and not stagnating.  You are the captain of your ship...keep on sailing...  

[Little_Miss_Eire]

Well for those of you who arent sick of listening to me banging on, I made another successful trip to my house today. I was tempted to get a late train back but ended up getting an earlier one as I thought that the extra time may make me a little anxious and put me off returning there again.

On the down-side, I dont think I can live there alone full time again... (

[nursegirl6572]

You are going to do just fine.  The leaving things there???  Brilliant!  :0)  LOL!

Great that you have someone going with you right now.  And, I'm very glad you are excited about it.

Way to go!

[Little_Miss_Eire]

Thanks again for all the great encouragement!

Im actually looking forward to visiting my house again tomorrow. I leave things there purposely i.e. my phone charger etc so I will HAVE to go back there lol I'd love to be able to go to my house every day to try and get back into the swing of things, unfortunately I need to be accompanied and it's not possibly to get someone to get the train there and back with me every day :(

Will post again tomorrow when I get back!

Take care x

[nursegirl6572]

Hi there.....congrats on your continued plans to visit your home.  

Coming to the realization that we have a "mental illness" is not an easy thing to do.  A lot of people with panic disorder are actually relieved ( I know I was) when someone finally gives our symptoms a real name, and reassures us we are not "going crazy" or will end up in an institution...that is a HUGE part of the fear.  But that "title" is un-nerving at first.  Try not to concentrate so much on labels for now.

I really wish you had a better "system", so that you COULD indeed get a proper diagnosis.  Any which way....you are on the right road...and barfer has made some GREAT points and suggestions.  Excellent post barfer!  I nodded furiously the whole time reading it!  :0)

I also agree that not every anxiety disorder comes from a deep seeded "trauma" of sorts.  There is usually "something"...even if not real significant...that starts making it manifest more.  Even GOOD changes in our lives can start the ball rolling.

But the REASON (or lack thereof)  behind what you are going through isn't as important right now as moving forward with your plan.  Educate yourself, continue reading and posting here, and other online forums. Like barfer (I lol every time I type that...lmao)...*I* have also had GREAT success with online support groups.  Just a place to go to share good days, bad days, accomplishments, trouble shooting, etc.  It is truly a wonderful thing.  Also, reading and relating to what others are saying is paramount in realizing you are never alone with this.  I have learned SO much from others.

Take barfer's advice about your house visits....one episode at a time....maybe try to plan something special for while you are there...like hanging a new set of curtains, or trying out a new decoration...something that will give you a purpose, and make you feel good, and maybe even a little excited about the trip.

Also, if you notice a lot of "angst" in the days/hours before your planned visit...that is another very typical, yet troublesome symptom of panic disorder/attacks....it is called "anticipatory anxiety"...and means exactly what it says....it's when we worry ourselves SICK ruminating and thinking the worst about the outing.  "What if-ing"  "What if I have a panic attack and I fall and hit my head then vomit on myself?"  "What if I have a PA and try to strangle myself on the bus?"  "What if a giant gorilla accosts me in front of everyone and makes me panic?"  See what I mean?  Hopefully the last one made you laugh anyway.  The "what if's" can get quite ridiculous...and actually learning to laugh at some of them has been very therapeutic for me.

Taking a Xanax (or half) about a half hour before you actually leave is a great idea, if you have a HIGH level of anticipation and anxiety.  And, like barfer said...the more you do it, the less you will need it.  I know you aren't a big fan of meds, and I understand that....but they really do wonders sometimes (if you haven't tried using them like this...before an anxiety-producing event.)  Often times, if we wait and take one in the throws of panic....he**.....by the time they kick in...the attack is over.  Whether or not you take the Xanax is totally up to you, obviously.  Just keep an open mind about it....there is no need to suffer needlessly, in my opinion.  When I was having daily, almost constant panic attacks...and became basically housebound, Ativan was an absolute GODSEND for me.  I never used it for long...because it ended up giving me courage to FACE my fears.

Just reading barfer's words...it is amazing how much alike we are.  We all have different "quirks" and different things that make us anxious...but in the end...we all are so similar.

I'm so happy you are moving forward with such a great attitude.  Acceptance takes time.  Recovery takes time.  Please just be patient with yourself and praise yourself for every small thing you manage to do that you thought you couldn't.  Keep trying to find that doctor too.  You never know.  I know your health system is much different from ours, and I wish you had more resources available to you.

Keep coming back and posting and/or reading.  Even find a second group....I think you will thrive in that type of environment.

Best of luck and I look forward to reading all about your next trip to your house!!!  Yay!

[barfer]

Quote:

I suppose part of my issue is that I still do not accept that what I have is panic disorder


That's how I felt for years...now I've definitely come to terms with it and it has made it much easier.

All the best to you!

Barfer

[Little_Miss_Eire]

Thanks for all the messages x. For the first time in a long time I don't feel like the only person in the world to be going through this and am delighted to meet so many people who understand what Im going through x

I have a packet of Xanax in my purse but don't take them, havent taken once since approx Sept of last year.

I'm planning to go back to visit my house tomorrow, so fingers crossed for me! It's not too bad when I get there (only if Im staying for short periods though, an overnighter almost pushed me over the edge in Jan!).  The main problem with getting to my house is that I have to take a train there (approx 1hr). I was learning to drive and planning on buying a car before the onset of this "problem". I'm not too good in cars and trains right now although I am fine on trams and in buses!!!!

I go into the city on my own, to and from docs/ CBT sessions and work meetings/ seminars no problem.

Psychiatrists can't issue meds here either, you can only see one through a doctor's referal though - which I did. I saw one of the heads of dept in a large hospital in Dublin, Ireland but it was a waste of time to be honest, it was more like a check up of how I was doing with the CBT (with a seperate therapist). The pyschiatrist didn't offer any assistance/ therapy etc which I feel was a MAJOR let-down...

I have to say though that I dont have great faith in the healthcare system here, particularly given that 2 of the docs I saw just threw prescriptions for ADs at me rather than offering anything else... They have no time for alternative medicine here and laughed at the idea of hypnosis/ acupuncture etc. I had previously experienced this though when I undertook Buteyko training to address my asthma - which I no longer have as a result of Buteyko - would highly recommend it to anyone!!!!!

Anyway, enough of me banging on lol

Really appreciate the kind words and suggestions - keep them coming! It's great to hear from some of you that you are overcoming all of this, it's given me great hope.

I suppose part of my issue is that I still do not accept that what I have is panic disorder...

Á

[barfer]

In Canada, psychiatrist do more than just hand out medication.  The sessions last about 50 minutes and some, if you are lucky, like I was, do CBT.  Psychologist here, do therapy and possibly CBT but can't prescribe meds.  I'm not sure on this but I think your system is more like the Canadian system.  Either way, from what you've said, you haven't had much luck with either medication, at least the antidepressant or the CBT.  Are you still using the xanax on occasion?   I'm going to guess that you aren't.  OK, now that we have established all that, lets talk about the agoraphobia.  Been there done that and still working on it.  I am a really big believer in CBT but that doesn't mean that it has to be with a therapist.  If you are more comfortable doing it on your own, then go for it.  I definitely was more comfortable doing it that way.  I think it was a big step going back to your house recently.  If I were in your shoes, I would now do it every day.  Even if it is only for a few minutes.  That is a great start and you will be surprised once it becomes common-place for you again, you will begin to look forward to it and it will eventually become your safe place.  I am not from the school of though that there has to be something from way back in your background that has made you this way.  I definitely agree that it is the case for  a good many  people but I think that sometimes, s**t just happens.  My mom had GAD, my sister has GAD and I suspect my brother does too.  So as I said, it doesn't have to be from some major trauma. The jury is out on this idea too, so let's just concentrate on you getting your life back.  I went through therapy with a psychiatrist who helped me but not to the extent that I helped myself and I was involved with an on-line  support group at the time that wasn't even close to being as good as this one and it really helped me get through.  It made me feel like I wasn't the only person who had these feelings and no matter how many books or relaxation tapes I read or heard, the forum was my best therapy.  I have a feeling, you are like me in that way.  Keep doing you own CBT and you will find it easier each time. When I did go to the psychiatrist, I was pretty much housebound at that point and couldn't figure out how I was even going to get there. Well, my husband drove me there the first few times and then as part of my therapy my psychiatrist  insisted that I find my own way there and back.  He said to me after the first few sessions, "I don't care what you do the rest of the week but on Tuesday mornings you come here no matter what.  He was tough but I did it and was thankful to him for pushing me and not being an enabler because those people around you who do let you get away with not doing things are not doing you any favours.  It was the toughest thing I had to do all week...it eventually got easier. He also gave me homework.  I had to go to a movie theatre before going to another session later on in my therapy and was a wreck before going, but I did it.  All these steps were taken over a year and a half and now, years after therapy, I'm still challenging myself.  If you do still have the xanax, if you are comfortable taking it, sometimes you can take one before you try to do something like go to your house or to the doctor's office just to get you started.  That doesn't mean that you will need it every time.  The next time, if you have a successful experience, you can try the experience again without the xanax.  You can just use it as a tool once in a while to help you get your life back and I say that ONLY if you are comfortable with it.  If not, then keep trying the therapy on your own or with someone you trust and just keep doing it no matter if you have a panic attack or not.  I can't tell you how many I've had standing in checkout lines, restaurants, and any-other place you can think of.  You've got to just push through it if you want to have a chance of getting your life back...and you have to really want to do it. I hope I don't sound too tough on you, but I really care and know where you are coming from...    

[nursegirl6572]

I somehow totally missed your last few words.  If you are of the mind set that you would rather not try medication (and there are a LOT of people like that)....then keep looking untilo you can find the right rescources.

Even meeting with a psychiatrist may still be a good option, to lead you to proper counseling...as that is SO important in treatment.

[nursegirl6572]

Hi There,

Congrats on the time spent in your home!  Please cherish and celebrate EVERY little accomplishment, no matter how "small" you think it is.  There are no "small" achievements when it comes to dealing with panic disorder.

I'm sorry you are having a difficult time finding the right doc.  That is so important.  And, having PD with agoraphobia...our challenge is greater b/c of our limitations in travelling too far from "home" (that will get better too).  It is very frustrating, I understand that.  Just don't give up.

There are a few therapists that will work via phone and internet at first when dealing with agoraphobics.  I'm not sure about your country...I know they aren't in great abundance here...but it may be a great place to start, if you can find one.  Keep googling!

Also, in my experience, the feeling you are going thru with the psychiatrists is quite common.....(here in the US anyway)...they are primarily there to do the medical management (pharmacuetically), and then they will REFER you to an appropriate psychologist./counselor who is the one that works you through the "talking" sessions and verbal vomiting (lol....sorry, that's just what I call it....that's what I always felt I was doing, and just like the real thing, I always felt better afterwards...lol).  The physciatrist generally just sees you a few minutes every few weeks to discuss your progress on the meds, and any therapy you may be in.  THOSE (therapists) are the people who help you delve deep inside and get to the root of any issues you may have.  That isn't to say you have some deep seeded buried trauma or anything...but usually there ends up being SOMETHING we've overlooked in ourselves.  For me, it ended up being my adoption at a later age (like 16 months)...I basically developed a SEVERE seperation anxiety that never went away, and developed into a PD.

Don't give up.  Keep trying.  Even if you have to find a psychiatrist closer to home that will help you manage meds and find you someone to "talk" to.  

It sounds like you have some really great and supportive people in your life, that is awesome!  We are soo hard on ourselves and always feel like we have let everyone in our lives down.  Truth is, 9 times out of ten.....our loved ones WANT recovery for us, even if they do not fully understand what it is we are going through.  We spend more time letting ourselves down and being hard on ourselves.

Hang in there....you are taking the right steps.  Better days are coming for you.

[Little_Miss_Eire]

Thanks a mil for all of your replies xxx

JS- There was nothing significant going on in my life at the time - nothing that I didnt do every other day of the week for all of 3yrs... I had helped to sucessfully open a new branch of the company I work for and had just met a fabulous new man - they were all pluses - sadly I had to let the guy down, I explained why and he totally understood (and we are great friends, he has really been there for me).

I have been to see a psychiatrist, who for three visits just nodded at my "tales" and concluded by saying that I seemed fine, "just have panic disorder" and continue with CBT - part of which does not concentrate on finding out what is causing this. It's all so frustrating.

On the upside - I managed to spend the day in my house today with a family member, I hope to visit it alone in the coming weeks.

3 or the 4 docs I have seen were hopeless. The one good one is near my house, which due to all this, is too far to visit!!!

I get that strange feeling in my head when visiting places to eat out (can only describe it as being like two wires connected which seem to break the connection for a split second...) Any advice?

Glitterbabe - I don't have any of those sensations. Panic Disorder symptoms apparently include breathing difficulties/ heart racing etc - Ive not experienced any of these. The fact that I dont have breathing difficulties I put down to having had Buteyko classes (re-training my breathing, as I was an asthmatic child).

Thanks for the info on reading matter  Nursegirl6572, Ive read a few since all this began, but I cant associate with it at all. The worst I have read is Susan Jeffers "Feel the fear and do it anyway"...

Thanks for all the support and good wishes, this is the best site I have come across so far...

I do need to find an understanding doc, but they seem to be hiding away in Ireland... Have googled lots of times and cant find any, particularly one that embraces alternative medicine as I dont believe that drugs are the answer - if it is a mental health issue then I need to be able to address that soberly...

[nursegirl6572]

Like JS...I've been there, done that.  Oh my...I remember those first panic attacks.  The one that made ME take that left turn was in college (even though I'd had them all my life).  My silly mind then associated the panic with my dorm room (which is VERY normal in panic disorder)..and other to pack my junk..I never went back.

What you describe is "agoraphobia"...forget about the fancy name...what it boils down to is "fearing the fear".  Wherever you have a panic attack...you associate the attack with the LOCATION rather than realizing it doesn't matter WHERE you would have been, it would have likely happened.

With agoraphobia...you begin to avoid more and more places, staying close to your "safe place"....which for you I'm gathering is your folk's place.  While this is all very upsetting and scary to you....it is all VERY typical of panic disorder...and there IS hope.  There are lots of different treatments out there....you need to have a serious pow-wow with your doctor (preferably a psychiatrist).  If they decide to try you on an AD again....you have to give it a few weeks to know the proper effectiveness and if it will work for you.  It has taken me anywhere from 2-5 weeks to notice significant imrpovement.  Everyone is different.  There are other meds out there as well, if the SSRI's (most commonly prescribed AD's) do not end up being for you.  CBT is also a great option.....

Bottom line...you need to start over with a doc you feel comfortable with and start heading towards recovery.  To share my own personal experience, at one point in my life...I was virtually "housebound"...and afraid of everything and everywhere.  Once I tried medication AND therapy (I am a strong believer that BOTH is the most optimal treatment)...I slowly but surely began to emerge as "myself" again.  I've have a few periods of what I call "panic remission"...then recovery, then back again.  Each period of wellness lasted for YEARS.

Lastly...PLEASE know that you are far from alone.  There are MANY MANY of us out there.  

As far as the medical scenario?  I'm with JS 100%...logic is pointing towards an anxiety disorder.  I think you will be surprised that once you start addressing the anxiety...the physical symptoms often start to dissipate.  It takes time.  It's VERY hard to be patient when it comes to feeling that way day in and day out...with life interrupted.  But patience pays off, trust me.

Reading about this is a GREAT place to start while you are getting hooked up with your physician.  There are some GREAT books out there for panic disorder....one that I would highly recommend is "The Anxiety/Phobia Workbook", by Edmund J. Bourne.  If you google, you will find TONS of other reading materials.  I tell you, when I FINALLY sat down and read the first book...I felt better...it was like *I* wrote the darn thing.  It made me feel NOT alone, and not nuts.  That first book I read was "Helping a Loved One Overcome Agoraphobia", by Karen William.  I had CONSTANT "ah-HA!!!!" moments reading that book, it was astounding.  After *I* read it...I had my family read it, just so they could get a better understanding of what it was I was going through.

Again, those books were very helpful to me...and I recommend them just from my own personal experience.  Your doctor may have even better materials for you.

I wish you the best of luck.....  

[JSGeare]

I remember that left turn! Really. Story of my life. Been there, done that. Started at age 6, went on for 40+ years. But now, turning 60 this August, I've been FREE of this stuff (<---you know the real word) for 8 years and counting. Believe it or not, it was THERAPY that did the trick. But my therapy had an element of "analysis" to it in addition to the CBT part. You know perfectly well that there is or are reasons why you have the attacks -its just that you don't know what they are. Browse through my various journals, including "Meet the Panic Family" and see what you think. The best therapist is a psychiatrist who acts as a sort of guide as you go over your life and find the material which has combined to put you where you are today.

The logic is compelling: if the tests are all OK, and the meds give spotty but not really complete relief, then that leaves just one source -your own brain, and what it has done with all the experiences and challenges of your life.

If you'd like a possible "toe hold" for right now, let me ask you this: What was going on in your life around the time you made that turn. What was psychologically BIG for you then? It need not be (although it could be) a profound event such as loss of a loved one, broken relationship, getting fired, learning your kid's in jail, etc. It need only be something you were thinking about alot and perhaps had not even discussed with anyone. Start THERE.

[glitterbabe]

hi i have all the same symptoms as you and im still in the process of having blood tests done, the docs say its anxiety or just in my head but it isnt its real and ive had nothing to worry about to cause anxiety so its hard thinking being anxious about nothing can make you feel so **** and as if ur going to die. i also hate visitors for some reason and visiting familym, to be honest id much prefer to be on my own lol. i also suffer from a really strange feeling in my head which is very difficult to explain i get a tingly sensation in my chest and face, my heart races and i sometimes need to take a deep breath as it feels like ive stopped breathing..this mainly happens of a night tho. also when im driving i feel i cant concentrate n that im going to pass out..it feels as though everything is moving to quickly around me n my eyes seem very senstitive. i also have many other symptoms but id be here all day lol do u get any others of the ones ive mentioned?