Need you guys... :(

[cnote]

Hey guys. Just dropping in for an update. 33 days off Remeron. If you count my 5 days reinstating after being off for a week, then technically I'm 22 days off Remeron. But I do not count that, b/c it did nothing for me.

Week 1 was hell on earth. Symptoms: Adrenaline surges, mostly at night in bed. Those were AWFUL. Shaking/Trembling. Extreme anxiety all day/night long. Heart rate 114-120bpm. Pacing the floors. Could not sit still. Crying spells. Depersonalization b/c anxiety was so intense. No appetite. Sleep was non existent.

Week 2. Things started to ease up a bit. Slowly but surely. Started using Sea Salt and even doing Epsom Salt baths. Appetite was returning too. Increase in Allergies though.

Week 3. Doing pretty good still. Sleep already better. 6-7 hours a night. Still Increase in Allergies. Sometimes I feel breathless a bit in the evenings when trying to relax and watch tv.

Week 4. (Current) the past few days, I feel like weird. Like I can't relax. I have this feeling of disconnection. Yet I'm not super anxious. I'm tired during the day. Sleep is choppy, but not complaining too much. Had mind chatter like crazy the past few days. Mostly at night in bed. Waking up in the middle of the night, then when trying to fall back asleep I see words/sentences/phrases in my head that don't even make any sense. I can hear my own voice (subconscious) reading these words. Or saying things like "just relax, go to sleep." Or a song looping in my head. Note: I'm NOT hearing VOICES. LOL. It's my own inner voice, my subconscious. Basically an overactive mind. Hate it. But it comes in phases. Last night was not as bad.

Other symptoms I'm having this week: Stomach feels empty/gnawing feeling sometimes, tired heavy eyes, stiff neck/I crack it all day long, No motivation really for anything. Lower back cracks a lot.

What ***** is we just bought our dream home 4 months ago. I'm supposed to be happy in this new house. Instead all I've done is suffered, and I fear I've made some weird/bad association with this house and anxiety/stress that I've been through already just being here.

One of my biggest worries that linger in the back of my mind is, "What if this is just anxiety/depression? What if it's NOT withdrawal from Remeron?"

I have a history of anxiety. I'm going to start going to a PSYCHOLOGIST. One who does NOT prescribe meds. I think CBT can help. Also homeopathy is something I'm interested in.

Just wanted to update you. I feel pretty low. But am pushing on. I'm working, and continuing with life.

Just gotta keep my head up. I just feel like "I'm STUCK" in this disconnection feeling. It's hard to explain this feeling I have. It's like, I don't feel NORMAL... yet I don't feel AWFUL. I feel like I won't feel normal ever again. Which is a crappy feeling. But I know it's a lie.

Also, lately my wife and I have been arguing A LOT. Or actually.. just not talking much at all. Which could be making me feel this way actually. It *****. I tried setting up a marriage counselor today, but my wife and I both admitted he sounded kind of dumb, and not for us. lol. So we are going to continue searching.

Really, deep down, we love each other SO much. She has her own problems, I have mine. She complains about staying up too late at night, and not getting enough sleep. She gets mad at me when I tell her to just to go to bed earlier. She tells me I don't do enough at night to help her with the kids. I tell her she spends too much time on facebook. It's just constant bickering. I can tell she's unhappy.

I think if her and I make some positive BIG changes in our lives, we CAN be better and FEEL better. I just feel STUCK right now.

And my biggest problem is, I CAN NOT for the LIFE of me typically differentiate between anxiety, and my brain being so jacked up from Yo Yo use of Antidepressants. I know for a FACT I went through Remeron withdrawal... but it's been 4 weeks since thing, and now I'm feeling MUCH better than back then, I just still don't feel RIGHT.

SO like Nursegirl says, I always like to have a DEFINED answer. And sometimes there isnt just one.

But I'm a firm believer that ANXIETY and DEPRESSION HAS to come from SOMEWHERE. And I DO believe it's an outside deal. I believe we all have chemical imbalances, Nobody is perfectly balanced. My brain may misfire sometimes, but there HAS to be a reason why. Build up of stress, not dealing with crap correctly. I dunno.

Am I feeling poorly b/c of my marriage? Am I feeling poorly just because the way I'm wired? And I have anxiety/depression? Am I feeling poorly b/c of withdrawal and my brain is just adjusting to not having any meds still? I truly believe just because a pill has left my bloodstream in a couple weeks, doesnt mean my brain doesnt have to readjust and re-figure out how to do it on it's own again. I think there is a process.

I'm basically just CONFUSED. lol.

I can't wait to see a therapist who will not force drugs down me. I truly believe I can cope and learn to deal with stress and anxiety with therapy. But I haven't had much luck. I want someone to believe in me.

I want to be able to sleep at night. Crawl into bed feeling calm and happy and relaxed. I want to be able to kick back on my couch, and enjoy watching a movie. That seems hard to do sometimes. I just want everything to be good. I want my neck to stop being stiff and my back...

I believe if your body feels hurt, and feels like crap, something is wrong, and that something needs to be addressed.

I WILL FIGURE THIS OUT. I've been through worse. :) Thanks for just listening guys. I cried to today to my buddy at work, whos a good Christian guy. He was so awesome in just listening to me and giving me references to marriage counselors. I'm thankful for people like that in my life. And you guys. :)

[cnote]

i also want to add, im 2+ years benzo free, except I feel guilty b/c i took xanax about 3 different times between this month and last month. Just to catch a small break. Didnt really help. So don't want to go down that road again. So they are out of the question. :)

[cnote]

Jade59, I quit Remeron roughly late october, maybe the 15th or something, I went a week without it, and it was torture. Which was strange b/c ive weened off of it several times in the past. But this time it was these dang adrenaline surges it sent through my body. I couldnt sleep for 6 nights b/c of them. I was so beat up, I went to a psychiatrist who gave me seraquel. Took that 1 night. That was in the same week I was still off and withdrawaling from Remeron. So I don't think the serequel did that. B/c after I stopped taking drugs, even after the seraquel 1 night, things seemed to smooth out. For 3 weeks I was on the mend. I have heard that w/d even with antidepressants can be like benzo withdrawal. With waxing and waning of symptoms. Ups and downs. But who knows.

The bottom line, like you said, whether it's just anxiety or w/d. Just accept it as anxiety and move on.

I think CBT will be beneficial. I'm having a pretty good day today. Appetite is still low, but eating, and I'm not having to gag it down. I do feel diarrhea coming on. But, I'm no worried about it. Just *****.

So you went through benzo withdrawal too? ***** huh? Took me 2 months to ween off, and about 6 months to heal I think.

Thanks for writing! Things will be good. :)

[Jade59]

Ok, I went back to reread your most recent posts.  You were 20days off Remeron, feeling pretty good, just not sleeping as well as you liked, then on Oct 30th, you took Seroquel ONE night.  THAT is what has reactivated your anxiety!  

C, you just gotta wait it out, is all.  I totally obsessed about anxiety and Gaba withdrawal for those 5mos (my journals were full of it), but it finally leveled off...and will for you, too.  Remember how awful you felt after the ativan?  You got better, remember?  Just takes time, however, I do know when you are in the midst of obsessing, Nothing said seems to help.  

I've not had the good fortune to have CBT, but I Do know it teaches you how to REDIRECT your thinking to get off the obsessing. This is going to be a Great thing for you...and without meds ;)  And remember, NO caffeine, cold medicine, caffeinated tea, NOTHING.  

Looking forward to your update...

[cnote]

Hey guys! Thanks for writing! Jade59, I'm sure you are onto something! :) And thanks for the advice. I think meds obviously help. But also can be a double edged sword for me. Just like you it sounds.

I'm def. ready for the CBT again with NO meds. I've never done that before. However, I'm already a little skeptical about this man. That sounds terrible doesnt it? lol. The only reason why, is that when I was on the phone with him last week, I told him that I hear CBT is good to stick with for 6 months+. He replied "oh, hopefully not. I'm hoping in a week you'll be better."

Who does CBT in a week? lol.

I know there are probably some other options out there in my area. Might have to drive North a bit to find other psychologists.

Even my Dr. recommended psychologist vs. psychiatrist b/c he said psychiatrists will just prescribe more meds. Yet my Dr. wants to prescribe me meds. lol.

This weekend was kind of rough, but got better last night. I kept busy, and that helped.

Sleep is still an issue. But I'm trying not to worry about it at all.

Last night I felt good enough, crawled into bed with a good book, put on Christmas Vacation and relaxed as much as I could. I fell asleep, but woke up several times it felt. Also lots of mind chatter still on and off. Like a song looping in my head, or random nonsense thoughts.

I'm also "obsessing" about anxiety and or Remeron withdrawal. That's going to be my MAIN focus tonight during therapy I think.

It's like I'm not confident enough in my own self to determine which is which. Part of me says "it's just me and a bad anxiety spell." Another part of me says "it's remeron withdrawal, b/c on some of these other forums I'm on, they are telling me it is."

I know I can't believe someone behind a computer screen. They might be nuts. lol.

But let me ask you this. Can CBT be effective in curbing anxiety? Just CBT and no drugs? Thanks. :)

[nursegirl6572]

Great post!

Hope the therapy goes well today c!  Let us know!

(And remember, it may be helpful to print off a few of your threads for reference, even if you given them to him to read later)

[Jade59]

Hi, C...gosh but we sound like twins.  NG is right, this is no longer about Remeron withdrawal, but anxiety.  I can tell you each and every time this has happened to me, it is preceded by stopping (or starting) a med.  So it IS the cessation of (ativan, remeron, whatever the case may be), but it's also the fact we are anxious people To Begin With.  

For example...My Dr put me on Gababentin in Oct2010.  It made me suicidal, and tore my stomach up, so I stopped it c/t 2mos later (I know weaning is recommended, but I just couldn't, I had to stop taking it period).  Now for most people, the anxiety might last a month or so, but for ME, it lasted 5 solid months.  To the point, I had to force myself to remember how it started, as I had begun the litany of 'why do I feel like this; WHAT is making me feel like this. It must be THIS making me feel anxious now" "What is it, omg, what is it???"  

Listen, my friend, I read the SA forum every single day.  I see others who stop meds, go through anxiety, but it stops within a *reasonable* amount of time.  For people like Us, it goes on and on and ON.  Somehow the start or stop of certain meds activate these episodes.  After a month or two for US, it is no longer about withdrawal, but anxiety.  Like you, I can give this advice Right Now, but when I eventually stop the med I am in the process of weaning from, I expect once I stop completely, I will be questioning within a few months, WHY I feel so much anxiety. lol

I think CBT will be a huge help; I hope it goes well today.  And if I were you, I would stay off Any meds.  Sure you will still have some anxiety...because you are simply made that way...but without meds, it is to a much lesser degree...don't you think?

As always, C, I wish you best.  :)

[cnote]

Thanks so much Crystal413! The psychologist I'm seeing on Monday says he does CBT. Hopefully that's the case. :)

[Crystal413]

I agree with Nursegirl for you to see a CBT Therapist. This kind of Therapist can really help you. They are skilled in ways other types of Therapist's are not.
I wish you well.

[cnote]

also just got off the phone with a therapist. he's out of a church though. but he's got 30+ years in psychology. but he also touches on spirituality and Christianity. He's a minister too.

[cnote]

Just an update. Last night was up and down. I started feeling pretty good in the evening. Playing with the kids. But then later, I started getting anxious, my legs were shivering, couldnt control it. I kept trying to take deep breaths and relax.

I really wanted to take a xanax to kill the anxiety spell, but my wife talked me out of it. She says I need to learn to do this on my own. I don't think she FULLY understands. But I get it.

Instead, I took 2 unisom. Not b/c I didnt think I couldnt sleep, I have been sleeping pretty good without any otc meds or anything the past few weeks. But I thought, "if I can't take a xanax, let me try a couple unisom. I fell asleep on the couch for 2 hours, then woke up, got back into bed, feeling anxious still. But fell asleep. I woke up around 6am, and couldnt go back to sleep. I laid in bed til about 9am. My mind was just going 100 miles per hour with that crazy anxious nonsense mind chatter. My stomach felt ill etc.

I then kept getting waves of bad energy all over my body. Almost making it feel tingly.

I got up for work, feeling cruddy still. But I'm going to MAKE IT.

I brought some xanax with me today to work. May take one and catch a break. My wife just doesnt want me to start taking xanax/benzo again.

[cnote]

Nursegirl, I'm SO sorry you have to repeat yourself to me OVER and OVER again. lol.

I SO WISH I could take Ativan again. Does that sound terrible? lol. It worked so good, but bit me in the butt in the long run. Benzos are just not worth it for me, yet they worked so good.

Remeron worked good too. Just don't know what happened this time. Plus the weight gain on it *****.

I don't know why I'm so scared of meds. I guess Ativan really did put some sort of a PTSD in me in a way. I don't want to relive those days.

Let me ask you these questions...

1. Do you think this too shall pass? I know I'm good at telling people that. lol. But I need to start taking my own advice sometimes.

2. Do you think I can do it without meds and by seeing a Therapist REALLY REALLY REALLY doing CBT?

Thanks SO much nursegirl. Tonight has been kind of rough. =/ Been talking to my wife and crying... I hate crying, but it feels good right now.

I have some xanax in the kitchen medicine cabinet, and am SO tempted to take one tonight just to chill out for a few. But don't want to go down that road again... it's like what you said, I'm FIGHTING with myself and EVERYTHING and EVERY decision. GRRRR. LOL.

I'll figure it out. :) Thanks again FOR EVERYTHING.

[nursegirl6572]

Oh my dear friend.

THIS post is a perfect example of what I keep trying to tell you.  You're on that merry-go-round, you're chasing your tail, looking for that definitive ANSWER to how you feel.  Since the FIRST day you came here, you would have been happier for there to be ANY other reason for your various symptoms besides anxiety.  You have found ways to link symptoms to certain things, then you go into "self convince" mode, where you basically talk yourself into believing your "theory" to explain away the way you feel.  The latest is the sleep/Remeron w/d deal.  You keep saying you know for a FACT you went through w/ds and adrenal surges, etc, when the FACTS are, you really DON'T know that.  Is it a possibility?  YES.  Is it also a possibility that my hunch is more accurate, that a lot of this is anxiety?  But, either way, you don't have medical/scientific data backing up that theory.  It's just that, a theory..and one even your doctors said wasn't likely.

I'll tell you what I told you before (probably more times than you have cared to hear, tee hee)...at SOME point, you have to find a place of acceptance.  You have to learn to accept that there will NOT always be a clear cut answer (more times than not) and you have to learn to be okay with that...if not, you just continue chasing your tail and driving yourself nuts.'

In the end, the "reason", the "answer" isn't all that relevant anyway...what's important is what you DO to address it.  REGARDLESS of what brought you to how you're feeling right now, you KNOW that anxiety is an issue for you.  Somehow, some way...anxiety is a big factor.  I think it's more of a cause of how you feel, YOU think it's more an outcome of the other stuff.  Either way, anxiety is anxiety, and you must address it.

You need to get into therapy.  I honestly don't know what you're waiting for.  Oh wait, yes I do...because you've convinced yourself that there is a medical/medication related reason for how you feel.  Therefore, therapy hasn't been the biggest priority for you.  I really think it needs to be.

C, I've seen you suffer through this same torturous cycle over and over, from the GI issues, appetite, to the benzo, Remeron, sleep aids, you name it.  I'm not saying that everything you experience is SOLELY anxiety related, but I TRULY believe that's the biggest component in most of your situations, truly I do.  Until you can learn to let go, stop trying so hard to put a label on everything, and just do what you know you need to do, the better you will feel.  You become obsessive, hyper focused on one thing, and finding the cause for that one thing.  It consumes you.  THAT in itself is probably causing a great deal of stress for you.

The chatter is probably a perfect example of the result of you over thinking everything.  Your mind just goes and goes.  That's where you need a GOOD therapist, well versed in CBT, some time, some patience, and an open mind.  You need that therapy to help undo this obsessive cycle of thinking you get stuck in.

I would highly recommend printing out your last several threads (the recent ones), and present them to your therapist.  They are VERY detailed, and chock full of info that the therapist will find very useful.  I think it would give him/her a LOT to start working with.

I KNOW I'm not the only one who has given you this lecture (lol).  You've said yourself that your doctor, your close friends and family, and your wife have all pretty much said the same thing.  They know you a heck of a lot better than I do.  I KNOW you don't want to accept that a lot of this suffering could be "just" anxiety, but you need to find a way to come to that place of acceptance.  Quit fighting against yourself so much.  Even in the beginning, you struggled SO much with finally admitting you had anxiety...you're STILL fighting it.  Say to yourself, "I have anxiety and that's okay".  Understand that with anxiety, you will have ups and downs, good periods and bad ones.  You won't find one black and white answer as to what to expect with anxiety.  Your symptoms will vary, your experiences will vary, and how you cope will vary each time it rears its ugly head.  

I feel for you, I truly do, because I just sense SUCH an intense struggle going on with you.  I've read some of your posts shaking my head, wishing I could come through the computer, grab you by the face and just tell you "STOP!"  Stop looking for answers you're likely never going to find.  I think you probably are sensitive to meds to some degree, but my honest opinion is that the things you have attributed to horrible med experiences through the years have probably been about 90% anxiety, 10% medication.

I hope this helps you buddy.  You already knew all this, we've had these discussions before.  ONE day, it will sink into that thick skull of yours I hope.  (Kidding of course).  :0)   I would just love to see you be able to relax and not fight it so much.  Fighting it is futile and only causes more stress.  

I'm pulling for you, as always.  I'm glad you're keeping us updated and continue to share what's going on.  I REALLY hope you feel better soon.  

Get your therapy started, and IMO, if I were you, I would take any and all meds out of the picture if possible.  That way, it will help you accept that anxiety is the issue should you not be feeling well.  You won't be able to attribute your symptoms to a med.  I would give therapy a go without any kind of supplement, Rx, OTC med.  Just YOU and therapy...and see how that goes.  I'm a big proponent of meds, but I think for YOU, they muddy the water too much.  You have a hang up about staying ON a medication, and then you become overly focused on how you feel when you are coming off, or have come off.  That ends up with you yo-yo'ing on and off these meds, which certainly WILL affect you, and then your thought processes get stuck on the med.   It's a lose-lose for you right now.

Hang in there!!!  Big hugs to you!  XOXO

[cnote]

I'm honestly scared of medication at this point too. Ativan dependence ruined me for 4+ years. Weened off that through the help of a psychiatrist, who gave me Remeron. Just wanted to add that. But then there is a part of me who thinks I can't do it without meds, and I need a crutch. But another part of me knows I can.... GRRR... lol