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Post acute withdrawal syndrome
I was put on the antipsychotic Seroquel back in 2012 after a suicide attempt. Fast forward to May this year and i'm done with the side effects of the med (gained 40 pounds, high prolactin levels, heart palpitations) so I asked my doctor to be weaned off them. So I started going from 100mg (my original dose) to 50mg for a month. Then went back to my doctor and he said to take 25mg for two weeks then stop completely.
The first couple of days were hell. Nausea, insomnia, couldn't eat or sleep. Emotional, terrible anxiety and panic attacks and depression. After 5 days it subsided. I had a good week and a half and then it rebounded and it's been a week of these symptoms all over again.
I looked up post acute withdrawal syndrome and had every symptom.
I've been off them for exactly 19 days now. When will I begin to feel normal again? When will my brain learn to adjust without the med?
Best Answer
Here's my take -- regular docs aren't very good at this. Even very experienced psychiatrists who specialize in these meds can be very blind to withdrawal problems. But your doc did follow a pretty normal taper schedule, about six weeks, but instead of tapering you down very slowly he did the final stages of the taper very quickly. You have two choices: stick it out and hope it all goes away, or go back on the last dose at which you felt fine and do a slower taper. I'm sure your doctor will help you with this should you decide to do it. What I would suggest, to avoid protracted withdrawals, is if it lasts a while or if you're getting emotional problems you never had before, I'd go back on the med and taper off more slowly. You need a schedule that suits you, not a general schedule that might suit someone else. You're the only you. I had a psychiatrist who was a quack who dissembled and left me uninformed, buy you know what's happening and you sound like you have a good doc who will help you. Take the help if you need it, it's always better to be safe. And you will be fine in the end.
Also where I live it's INCREDIBLE hard to find a therapist. We don't have many of them around so it can take months to even get a appointment.
I don't want anyone getting heated over me here. To clarify things, I have been mentally ill since age 8. I was first perscribed Luvox and saw a therapist for OCD. I managed it until the age of 12 when things changed, like certain behaviours where I saw phychiatrist who then diagnosed me with depression. I was put on numerous medications to see which was right for me and I was taking Luvox and Clonzepam till I was 18 when I needed to change anti depressants because I was no longer responding to the one I was put on 8 years earlier. I was then put on Cipralex while still taking the clonzapam as needed for panic attacks and anxiety. I was not seeing a phychiatrist at this time. I have had a very wonderful relationship like I said with my GP. He is extrememly understanding and listens to everything I say. My concerns ect. He was handling my medications until last June when I finally told him that I was ready to try therapy again. Before that in March of 2012 after some things happened I tried to commit suicide. I have struggled with self harm since my depression diagnoses and that is how I was doing it. I then spend a week in the hospital where they took me off the Clonzepam and put me on Diazepam (5mg twice daily), Propananol (5mg twice daily) and Seroquel (100mg at night). I did not like that they were just putting me on these new meds without telling me why but I figured they were the professionals and they knew better. When I got out of the hosptial I started seeing a phychiatrist and she was alright. I didn't really get along and we never made progress. She left my medications how they were and once recommended Zoloft as a new anti depressant instead of the Cipralex but I said absolutley not. I eventually stopped seeing her after 9 months. Since then my doctor has been there for my med changes, check ups ect. It was until I noticed that the Serequel was making me so damn sleepy (even when taken at night) I would feel like a zombie all day. It made me gain weight, and eat like a pig. I would have heart palpatations and I was just tired of it. I only wanted to be on it for a short period. Not three years. That just brings us here.
I plan on seeing my doctor this week just to see what my options are. I most definently dont want to go back to the 100mg and start ALL over again. I just would not want to go through any more of this terrible anxiety.
I plan on seeing my doctor this week just to see what my options are. I most definently dont want to go back to the 100mg and start ALL over again. I just would not want to go through any more of this terrible anxiety.
You're falling back into your own pathology as you did when we had that very odd private messaging thing. I told you then that if you're going to get into your personal issues, it should be done on private messaging, not on the forum where we just hijack the poster's thread (and frighten people to death). I didn't prescribe anything, and you know I didn't. I offered a suggestion that can only be carried out by talking to a physician with the authority to write prescriptions, which I don't have. So she will have to speak to a doctor regardless, I hope a psychiatrist. Nothing I say will have any immediate effect except to give her things to discuss with her physician. And I wish I could supply more information about antipsychotics and the like but I'm not writing scholarly papers here. I know how to do it, God knows I have enough advanced degrees I'm doing nothing with, but that's not my interest to do. Perhaps you could write this book. As for emailing Dr. Glenmullen, I tried that a decade ago and he never answered, nor did he answer when my psychiatrist tried to contact him, so there's that. I did the best I could here to offer advice the poster can take or not take -- no prescriptions. So again, when your personal anger gets involved, please, take it off-forum. Life's hard enough for people. And I never talk about my own situation with people on the forum because the likelihood of that happening to anyone is so slim it's not worth scaring people -- this person isn't going to have that happen to her. Please, and again, can we stop this part where your personal issues spill over? You state your view, I state mine, the poster can then decide. If I choose not to respond further, it's because I've said everything I have to say and repeating myself isn't useful for anyone. I've never ever had a problem with you, I consider you one of the most helpful people on here, as I told you when you initiated that private message series with me, and I still don't get where the conflict arose from. I don't have one with you. Peace.
It is complicated when you don't know what to do and are the one who is suffering through. I hope you did talk to your GP. For myself, my primary care physician, who is incredibly smart, well respected and recognized in my state as a very good doctor by colleagues and patients, would not even touch my psych meds. When I was having psych problems, she referred me to a psychiatirst. When that psychiatrist did not work out, she gave me references to about 3 more and they did not work out. I finally got one who I could work with, and I stayed with that psychiatrist for nearly 2 decades. Btw, I was on insurance, and he saw people who did not have any money or insurance to the other end of the spectrum, but he mostly concentrated on people who did not have much. He had a sliding scale fee. He and other psychiatrist, who take insurance, actually made less money than 3 of the therapists I was seeing, mostly on insurance, and then, one I paid out of pocket, because she was really good. He was not the only psychiatrist who did that. We aren't immune to the more people in need of seeing a psychiatrst than psychiatrists available, btw, either.
I certainly hoped you talked to your GP. When I saw your taper, I did think you were dropped too preciptiously in the end. I was diplomatic when I didn't slam your GP. I think he was being kind, read up on it, and did follow a general taper. However, anyone who treats people on Seroquel on a daily basis and a lot of them and for years, know that there are things that they get a feel for in practice that is not ready knowledge in books. There are some dosages, for instance, that makes you close to being a walking sleeping person for days, and then, there are some doses, when you just go up by 25 mg that makes you speedy, can't sleep even if you feel tired for days. Seroquel titration is tricky. So, if you follow Paxilled's advice, I hope you know what you are in for, and I certainly hope he really knows the drug. When a hospital psychiatrist increased my Seroquel without consulting my psychiatrist like I asked him to, by 25 mg, he sent me over the roof to a point where I could not sleep for a week and I was agitated and anxious. Btw, the drug was in my system for over a year, and so what Paxilled said about it wouldn't be a problem because the drug hasn't quit yet, and it wouldn't be a problem, that is just baloney. He wouldn't say that about Paxil. It tailspinned me into a bipolar cycling episode, and I was back in the hospital again. My own psychiatrist, I could tell, when I saw him was really, really angry about that. That doctor did not have much experience with Seroquel, because he was not practicing for very long.
Getting off Seroquel is not like getting on Seroquel, and like the good doctor said in the book and my own psychiatrist as well as a couple of psychiatrists who happened to be acquaintance, they said, take it slow, what is the rush, why rock the boat and chance it when the taper as is, is going well. I was on 50 when I wanted off, but I followed his prescription, went to 25, 12.5, and then I just said I am just going off and did that behind his back. When I came back and told him what I did, he was slightly disappointed with me, but glad I didn't suffer consequences. As I said, he was following exactly what Dr. Glenmullen wrote. If Paxilled really knew anything of what goes on in a hospital where people are treated for acute withdrawal as inpatient in other kinds of meds like Ativan, Valium, Alcohol, Morphine, and some antipsychotics given IV in a teaching hospital, he would know that what Dr. Glenmullen does is actually what goes on. It is not a 1% population of people who deal with withdrawals. There are licensed people out there who actually know what they are doing.
I am not slamming your doctor. I know you really like him and I know he was compassionate enough to do that. He probably had second thoughts about it, but you are not doing yourself or him any favors by just "riding out." If your ride is problematic, then you are going to need to talk to someone who can actually do something about it. I suggested you read the book, because that is exactly what Dr. Glenmullen did in 2 of the case studies. Things like what you are going through, and he dealt with it after he talked to them. He weighed what other kinds of issues may be going like relapse and other things. That is what good phsyicians and health practitioners do. Usually, they give you options, and it is usually not sink or swim options. I think you would kick yourself if you knew you didn't have to go through withdrawals or, at least, have some of the symptoms alleviated, and you are not giving yourself the chance to have that option. Even a heroin addict would prefer a kinder and gentler withdrawal period. Also, I seriously doubt your GP is going to love hearing that you are going through that. I know I am not easy about it now, and I am a total stranger. I would rather see you safe, in good hands, and come out of this without any effects, temporary or permanent. I do not understand why you choose to take a hard course when you don't need to, but hey, maybe you don't mind biting bullets and wringing hands.
I personally think you should see a psychiatrist to help you with your withdrawal. I think it is very likely your GP will recommend this. I say all this without knowing much about you. This is the same advice that my doctors, friends, family and anyone who cares about me, including the homeless guy down the street said to me, when I didn't know what to do, and he basically said, "I don't know sister, but all I know is if I can get a hotel room, I would take it."
I certainly hoped you talked to your GP. When I saw your taper, I did think you were dropped too preciptiously in the end. I was diplomatic when I didn't slam your GP. I think he was being kind, read up on it, and did follow a general taper. However, anyone who treats people on Seroquel on a daily basis and a lot of them and for years, know that there are things that they get a feel for in practice that is not ready knowledge in books. There are some dosages, for instance, that makes you close to being a walking sleeping person for days, and then, there are some doses, when you just go up by 25 mg that makes you speedy, can't sleep even if you feel tired for days. Seroquel titration is tricky. So, if you follow Paxilled's advice, I hope you know what you are in for, and I certainly hope he really knows the drug. When a hospital psychiatrist increased my Seroquel without consulting my psychiatrist like I asked him to, by 25 mg, he sent me over the roof to a point where I could not sleep for a week and I was agitated and anxious. Btw, the drug was in my system for over a year, and so what Paxilled said about it wouldn't be a problem because the drug hasn't quit yet, and it wouldn't be a problem, that is just baloney. He wouldn't say that about Paxil. It tailspinned me into a bipolar cycling episode, and I was back in the hospital again. My own psychiatrist, I could tell, when I saw him was really, really angry about that. That doctor did not have much experience with Seroquel, because he was not practicing for very long.
Getting off Seroquel is not like getting on Seroquel, and like the good doctor said in the book and my own psychiatrist as well as a couple of psychiatrists who happened to be acquaintance, they said, take it slow, what is the rush, why rock the boat and chance it when the taper as is, is going well. I was on 50 when I wanted off, but I followed his prescription, went to 25, 12.5, and then I just said I am just going off and did that behind his back. When I came back and told him what I did, he was slightly disappointed with me, but glad I didn't suffer consequences. As I said, he was following exactly what Dr. Glenmullen wrote. If Paxilled really knew anything of what goes on in a hospital where people are treated for acute withdrawal as inpatient in other kinds of meds like Ativan, Valium, Alcohol, Morphine, and some antipsychotics given IV in a teaching hospital, he would know that what Dr. Glenmullen does is actually what goes on. It is not a 1% population of people who deal with withdrawals. There are licensed people out there who actually know what they are doing.
I am not slamming your doctor. I know you really like him and I know he was compassionate enough to do that. He probably had second thoughts about it, but you are not doing yourself or him any favors by just "riding out." If your ride is problematic, then you are going to need to talk to someone who can actually do something about it. I suggested you read the book, because that is exactly what Dr. Glenmullen did in 2 of the case studies. Things like what you are going through, and he dealt with it after he talked to them. He weighed what other kinds of issues may be going like relapse and other things. That is what good phsyicians and health practitioners do. Usually, they give you options, and it is usually not sink or swim options. I think you would kick yourself if you knew you didn't have to go through withdrawals or, at least, have some of the symptoms alleviated, and you are not giving yourself the chance to have that option. Even a heroin addict would prefer a kinder and gentler withdrawal period. Also, I seriously doubt your GP is going to love hearing that you are going through that. I know I am not easy about it now, and I am a total stranger. I would rather see you safe, in good hands, and come out of this without any effects, temporary or permanent. I do not understand why you choose to take a hard course when you don't need to, but hey, maybe you don't mind biting bullets and wringing hands.
I personally think you should see a psychiatrist to help you with your withdrawal. I think it is very likely your GP will recommend this. I say all this without knowing much about you. This is the same advice that my doctors, friends, family and anyone who cares about me, including the homeless guy down the street said to me, when I didn't know what to do, and he basically said, "I don't know sister, but all I know is if I can get a hotel room, I would take it."
Well, thanks for clarifying that when you said it was the go to book for psychiatrists that having difficulty with the problem is not actually what you mean. You know, he may have gotten in hot water with other psychiatrists for what he said about Paxil, but that is what happens when you speak out. Not everyone is going to agree with you, even if you are well respected in your field. So, you prescribe that she takes 25 mg of Seroquel, which incidentally, is a usual starting dose, which is usually incredibly sedating, so I think you should advise her that she may not want to operate machinery (like drive or cook) and since your diagnosis is protracted withdrawal syndrome, what will you suggest for any other problems that may occur, and I think you since you have protracted withdrawal syndrome, share with her how long, what you went through, what worked and what didn't work for you, and do you still have it now. That would be helpful to her.
I wrote down the quotes from the book as I was reading it. The book is so short, that I actually re-read it twice and I looked over all the drugs he was covering, the listings of substantial amount of references, research references, etc. in his book, looked over the charts. Where are the antipsychotics, Paxilled? In his book, he addresses antidepressants, and did not once say it can be applied to other drugs. I have news for you. Other drugs have nuances that are not well known over the internet that only people who treat and have hands on practice with treatment for withdrawals are aware about and knowledgeable about. You are right that not everyone in the medical or allied health fields know about what to do with certain drugs and what to watch out for, how to treat, or what. It takes knowledge and skill to do that. So, I know from this latest answer, that you apparently believe you have the skill to manage this woman's "protracted withdrawal syndrome." and the license to prescribe over the internet. You know, all physicians who do not enjoy having their license scrutinized would go so far as you have here without seeing the patient. It doesn't matter if you didn't use the prescription pad by the way. You gave a written order over the net. You only gave her 2 treatment options. Go back to the last dose (25 mg as you clarified) or wing the withdrawal. What? She doesn't get any support of any kind? So, I suppose you will take up the responsiblity of whatever happens to her, and hopefully, it will be a good thing. As you did with 2 others who you recommended the same treatment, and it didn't work out for them, for one you didn't bother answering back and she was a woman who just got out of the hospital, had gone on a different dose, you advised her to go back on last dose, she did and when she said she was still not feeling well and didn't know what to do, you didn't answer. The other was a man from another country, who followed your advise, and when it didn't work out for him, you told him that he needed to see a doctor, but funny, you didn't tell him that as you were prescribing the medication which he followed. So, I hope for Christney's sake, that the 25 mg works for her, and, excuse me, but what is the next step after that? Perhaps, you should email Dr. Glenmullen and ask him what you should do next and consult with him, and while you are at it, find out if her GP will follow your direction and write her scripts for her under your advise. If you are going to practice medicine without a license, you might as well go all the way. Since you feel you are expert and experienced. I hope you have all your bases covered. I think this is actually funny, because as I recalled when I actually was telling someone else on what my titration was like and I mentioned that my doctor put me on the previous dose on an active titration that you had my post deleted and you basically said you can't post stuff like that when you don't know what the history of the person is or anything about them....and yet, here you are. I don't know, but in my book, I would say that this is hypocritical. You are on shaky ground here. What is more, this is a public forum, so someone else in Christney's shoes reading this post now, and who knows how many since this is international, is probably going to take you up on your advise. This isn't even the dark web. You don't like online pharmacies, prescribers, and what not, and here you are. You reference a book where the psychiatrist, who you respect, doesn't even mention lay people prescribing for others and, overall, refers to licensed prescribers who have gone through training and education for this and are hands on, on his pages. So, I suggest you email him and ask him if it also applies to you to do what you do here. When you get his endorsement, get back to us. Then, there will be peace. Peace is usually something people work on, not taken from granted. Namaste.
I wrote down the quotes from the book as I was reading it. The book is so short, that I actually re-read it twice and I looked over all the drugs he was covering, the listings of substantial amount of references, research references, etc. in his book, looked over the charts. Where are the antipsychotics, Paxilled? In his book, he addresses antidepressants, and did not once say it can be applied to other drugs. I have news for you. Other drugs have nuances that are not well known over the internet that only people who treat and have hands on practice with treatment for withdrawals are aware about and knowledgeable about. You are right that not everyone in the medical or allied health fields know about what to do with certain drugs and what to watch out for, how to treat, or what. It takes knowledge and skill to do that. So, I know from this latest answer, that you apparently believe you have the skill to manage this woman's "protracted withdrawal syndrome." and the license to prescribe over the internet. You know, all physicians who do not enjoy having their license scrutinized would go so far as you have here without seeing the patient. It doesn't matter if you didn't use the prescription pad by the way. You gave a written order over the net. You only gave her 2 treatment options. Go back to the last dose (25 mg as you clarified) or wing the withdrawal. What? She doesn't get any support of any kind? So, I suppose you will take up the responsiblity of whatever happens to her, and hopefully, it will be a good thing. As you did with 2 others who you recommended the same treatment, and it didn't work out for them, for one you didn't bother answering back and she was a woman who just got out of the hospital, had gone on a different dose, you advised her to go back on last dose, she did and when she said she was still not feeling well and didn't know what to do, you didn't answer. The other was a man from another country, who followed your advise, and when it didn't work out for him, you told him that he needed to see a doctor, but funny, you didn't tell him that as you were prescribing the medication which he followed. So, I hope for Christney's sake, that the 25 mg works for her, and, excuse me, but what is the next step after that? Perhaps, you should email Dr. Glenmullen and ask him what you should do next and consult with him, and while you are at it, find out if her GP will follow your direction and write her scripts for her under your advise. If you are going to practice medicine without a license, you might as well go all the way. Since you feel you are expert and experienced. I hope you have all your bases covered. I think this is actually funny, because as I recalled when I actually was telling someone else on what my titration was like and I mentioned that my doctor put me on the previous dose on an active titration that you had my post deleted and you basically said you can't post stuff like that when you don't know what the history of the person is or anything about them....and yet, here you are. I don't know, but in my book, I would say that this is hypocritical. You are on shaky ground here. What is more, this is a public forum, so someone else in Christney's shoes reading this post now, and who knows how many since this is international, is probably going to take you up on your advise. This isn't even the dark web. You don't like online pharmacies, prescribers, and what not, and here you are. You reference a book where the psychiatrist, who you respect, doesn't even mention lay people prescribing for others and, overall, refers to licensed prescribers who have gone through training and education for this and are hands on, on his pages. So, I suggest you email him and ask him if it also applies to you to do what you do here. When you get his endorsement, get back to us. Then, there will be peace. Peace is usually something people work on, not taken from granted. Namaste.
I don't disagree with anything you said above. I didn't mean this book was a go-to for psychiatrists; quite the opposite, his books have gotten him in really hot water for his critical approach to using antidepressants. I meant he became a go-to psychiatrist for other psychiatrists who didn't want to treat those of us who suffered withdrawal; they sent their patients to him, which gave him the experience necessary to write this book. They even questioned his status as a lecturer at Harvard. Partly it was because one of his early books was a critical response to the adulation showered on Prozac when it first came out, so he's always been an outlander. Glad you like the book -- I wish I had seen it before I decided to stop Paxil. Anyway, everything you say is possibly true; my assumption comes from the description by the poster that what she's suffering now is withdrawal and is different from what she suffered before being on the medication, as she describes it, which would argue against a relapse or a rebound. I also think he mentions somewhere in the book, and I've also seen it elsewhere, that things that happen right after quitting a drug are probably from quitting the drug and that relapses and rebound problems usually come later. If the poster's description is accurate, she's suffering a protracted withdrawal, and as there is no known treatment for it the only thing to try is to go back on the drug at the last dose at which she felt fine, which in this case would be 25mg, and taper off more slowly, or stick it out and hope it goes away. The problem with the latter course is it might not go away. So you could well be right about everything you said, but the cost of finding out could be rough -- or it might not be. Peace.
Sorry spell.checked.kicked.in alot. The author's name is Joseph Glenmullen, M.D. I highly recommend Christney reads it when she can. It is actually very short and she can gift it to her GP. I think Dr. Glenmullen would like that since he said so.
It is a good book, which I actually like alot. I just reviewed it to find what you are saying it supports. Is it this quote feom the book written by Joseph Glanville, M.D."For example, GlaxoSmithKline now cautions that Paxil should be discontinued by a 'gradual reduction in the dose rather than abrupt cessation.' But the 'guidelines' the company provides for tapering the drug simply state: 'If intolerable symptoms occur following a decrease in the dose or upon diacontinuation of treatment, then (the following in italics from the author) resuming the previously prescribed dose may be considered."He continued with "Subsequently, the physician may continue decreasing the dose (following in italics) but at a more gradual rate (author added, 'emphasis added' to previous iitalicized phrase)" He ended the paragraph with "Obviously such a vague statement offers little in the way of helping doctors and patients decide how much to reduce the dose and in what time frame"
I don't get the idea that he agrees with that. You did say that it was the "go to book for psychiatrists," but I believe he took time to say it was for inexperienced and not very knowledgeable people on antidepressants withdrawal, dependence and "addiction" as patients, family practice physicians treating withdrawal and prescribing antidepressants , inexperienced psychiatrists in treating withdrawal, or generally, anyone who is interested or takes antidepressants. In it he describes a 5 step Antidepressant Tapering Program but doesn't really give specific drug tapering dosages. In his case studies, they are on patients he actually interviews and get a good idea of history (in-depth), and assesses. He just doesn't jump to the "go back to the last prescribed dose," he talks to them. He is actually compassionate and wrote the book so that people did not have to suffer withdrawal.i don't see anywhere where he endorses"riding it out." What is anecdotal about "going back to 50 mg Seroquel (which is an antipsychotic, not an antidepressant) or riding out the withdrawal. How do you consider taking 50.mg Seroquel (last dose), the best dose to go back to without knowing her or that riding out withdrawal is the only other course she can take. After she goes back on 50.mg, what does she do afterwards? How long is she suppose.to.deal.with extreme anxiety and does she even mention it to her doctor? Does she go back to her psychiatrist who she hasn't seen in a year and who knows why? Do you consider her depression mild after being on Seroquel for a.suicide attempt? How do you distinguish with absolute certainty that she is going through withdrawal vs. Relapse vs rebound effect without asking her questions or assessing her and feel.safe about it?
Also, your recommendation did not sound very a necdoctal. I thought think she was looking for that kind of response. You gave her a direct prescription and treatment plan. Re-read what you said, and thatis what was so helpful to her. I will now add another quote from the good dr. Who you heartedly endorse as I do as well. "The decision to taper off antidepressants require a careful clinical evaluation and needs to be made jointly by patients and doctors, as discussed in Chapter 7." Where is your careful clinical evaluation? Excuse me, but how much do you know about Seroquel? This is morw than about addressing withdrawal, and sorry, it is still starting the med after 21 days, even if it is to address withdrawal only. What exactly is your cur off point for when a taper and how on earth did you figure out 21 days aftwr does not require a caution for re-starting 50 mg of Seroquel will not cause sedation? Psychiatrists who actually do follow the same withdrawal plan as in the book caution about that, even on a taper for antipsychotics and that is also that other allied health professionals watch out for. No one with a good sense of monitoring withdrawals do not keep on their toes for watching out foe them. Coming from you, it boggles my mind since that is one of the issues you come down, that withdrawal is not taken seriously, monitored, careful, etc.
I could add more but I don't want to quote the whole book.
I don't get the idea that he agrees with that. You did say that it was the "go to book for psychiatrists," but I believe he took time to say it was for inexperienced and not very knowledgeable people on antidepressants withdrawal, dependence and "addiction" as patients, family practice physicians treating withdrawal and prescribing antidepressants , inexperienced psychiatrists in treating withdrawal, or generally, anyone who is interested or takes antidepressants. In it he describes a 5 step Antidepressant Tapering Program but doesn't really give specific drug tapering dosages. In his case studies, they are on patients he actually interviews and get a good idea of history (in-depth), and assesses. He just doesn't jump to the "go back to the last prescribed dose," he talks to them. He is actually compassionate and wrote the book so that people did not have to suffer withdrawal.i don't see anywhere where he endorses"riding it out." What is anecdotal about "going back to 50 mg Seroquel (which is an antipsychotic, not an antidepressant) or riding out the withdrawal. How do you consider taking 50.mg Seroquel (last dose), the best dose to go back to without knowing her or that riding out withdrawal is the only other course she can take. After she goes back on 50.mg, what does she do afterwards? How long is she suppose.to.deal.with extreme anxiety and does she even mention it to her doctor? Does she go back to her psychiatrist who she hasn't seen in a year and who knows why? Do you consider her depression mild after being on Seroquel for a.suicide attempt? How do you distinguish with absolute certainty that she is going through withdrawal vs. Relapse vs rebound effect without asking her questions or assessing her and feel.safe about it?
Also, your recommendation did not sound very a necdoctal. I thought think she was looking for that kind of response. You gave her a direct prescription and treatment plan. Re-read what you said, and thatis what was so helpful to her. I will now add another quote from the good dr. Who you heartedly endorse as I do as well. "The decision to taper off antidepressants require a careful clinical evaluation and needs to be made jointly by patients and doctors, as discussed in Chapter 7." Where is your careful clinical evaluation? Excuse me, but how much do you know about Seroquel? This is morw than about addressing withdrawal, and sorry, it is still starting the med after 21 days, even if it is to address withdrawal only. What exactly is your cur off point for when a taper and how on earth did you figure out 21 days aftwr does not require a caution for re-starting 50 mg of Seroquel will not cause sedation? Psychiatrists who actually do follow the same withdrawal plan as in the book caution about that, even on a taper for antipsychotics and that is also that other allied health professionals watch out for. No one with a good sense of monitoring withdrawals do not keep on their toes for watching out foe them. Coming from you, it boggles my mind since that is one of the issues you come down, that withdrawal is not taken seriously, monitored, careful, etc.
I could add more but I don't want to quote the whole book.
I don't think that's accurate that this is only "good for an active taper." This is a suggestion that comes from many who specialize in withdrawal. One book I got this suggestion from is the book The AntiDepressant Solution by a psychiatrist who became a go-to for psychiatrists having difficulty with this problem. If you're still in withdrawal, you really haven't quit the drug yet, in a sense, since your brain is still engaged in trying to re-adapt to functioning without it. Nothing under the sun works for everyone, but this is a solution some psychiatrists use, and since the body is quite accustomed to the med you've just quit and are still in withdrawal from, it's not exactly like starting a new med again -- the hope is you will take right to it again since the gap in time hasn't been too long. But it is true that all this advice is more anecdotal than proven science, since withdrawal isn't taken all that seriously by the research community as of yet.
I forgot to add that the above recommendation to go back on last dose is only good for an active taper, and it is a general standard practice on a taper. Since you are over 2 weeks off the Seroquel, it is no longer part of a taper schedule. You would be essentially starting up going back on Seroquel again,
If you decide to go back on the last dose on your own, just remember at that low dose, Seroquel is usually incredibly sedating to the point you can't keep your eyes open for most of the day. I would still call the dr, if you decide to ride it out. For one. It will, for one, inform your dr.and it is written down on his evaluation notes, which is required, 2) He will learn not to taper low fast. 3) For the extreme anxiety you have, and if it goes long, there is a origin note that takes a lot of guess work out, and there can be a discussion on what can be done to alleviate it temporarily.
, I still think it is a good idea to talk to your doctor. I also think it is a good idea to see a therapist or some kind of support to bridge going from a medicated person to a non-medicated person on an antipsychotic like Seroquel, because there are, besides shifts what the body goes through, brain and otherwise, their is an adjustment emotionally on how to deal with things raw. It's almost like stepping out from a psych ward out into the world directly. That goes on for awhile. That is also where your symptoms that you described can stem from, and it could also bea combination of both.
Coming off Seroquel, that was noticeable for me, as it was for others in my support group. I hope things work out for you.
, I still think it is a good idea to talk to your doctor. I also think it is a good idea to see a therapist or some kind of support to bridge going from a medicated person to a non-medicated person on an antipsychotic like Seroquel, because there are, besides shifts what the body goes through, brain and otherwise, their is an adjustment emotionally on how to deal with things raw. It's almost like stepping out from a psych ward out into the world directly. That goes on for awhile. That is also where your symptoms that you described can stem from, and it could also bea combination of both.
Coming off Seroquel, that was noticeable for me, as it was for others in my support group. I hope things work out for you.
Thank you so much ! This comment helped a lot. I'm going to stick it out a for a few more days then if it's just not getting better then i'm going to see my doctor. Thank you thank you thank you.
Oh okay. No I don't have any of the symptoms I had before going on the medication so it's most definently withdrawl. Thank you so much for your input.
I guess being on it for so long means its going to take a while for me to get back to functioning without it.
I guess being on it for so long means its going to take a while for me to get back to functioning without it.
SORRY. I didn't know I had some major typos. I meant meds not mess, which was not even a word that entered my mind. The "d" is right by the "s" key on the touchscreen, which is a frustrating way to type on a tiny keyscreen, which I am limited to right now.
Then, it sounds like your GP is aware of what you are going through, which you know, s/he needs to know what you are going through, since your GP has taken responsibility of your drug wean and felt s/he was qualified to do so. At the end of the drug wean, any doctor who has taken on the responsibility has to evaluate at the end of the wean, if say,proms have reoccurred or if there are withdrawal sy,proms going on, Since you trust your GP with medical decisions, then, you need to give your doctor the opportunity to do that and deal with it.
I understand why my advice does not give you much relief, and I did not realize you have been off Seroquel for awhile. I do not expect you to go back on it, because you are not on taper down mode anymore. That is usually not done:) The question is: it is withdrawal or is it return of symptoms of the condition that you were being treated for.
When I was lowered down, my doctor told me to watch it for return of specific symptoms, which were the reasons why I was on the drug in the first place, and, for me, like you, I was placed on Seroquel after a suicide attempt. I had specific symptoms that brought it on. I didn't have any of those symptoms, and so, we kept going with the wean. I watched out for those AND withdrawal symptoms.
I am wondering if you are actually going through withdrawal symptoms or having return of your condition or something new because you are off your mess, One of the other things of getting off psych meds is that the doctor has to provide for the psych support either through a therapist along with the expertise of his knowledge on weaning. The reason why I am not so sure it is withdrawal is because you said you were fine for 5 days, and then it reoccurred.
Even after getting off any psych med, just because the wean is over, doesn't mean treatment is over, because of the fact you have to deal with a potent drug free life.
I had gotten off my psych meds by myself without telling any of my doctors about it when I was much younger, because I felt I was cured, misdiagnosed and, basically, that I knew better or, like you, just didn't want to be on the drug, which is in your medical rights to decide that (as long as you are not endangering yourself or others and a few other "tipping" conditions, but even then, you still have to be informed and agree if you are capable to reason and understand that or someone else who is designated to speak for you is consulted, unless it is extremely urgent). When I told my doctors I was having problems and why, they dealt with it.
They kept in mind and respected what I wouldn't do, although sometimes, they informed and encouraged; then, I would decide on that or think some more or they would think some more, and we would work on that. Sometimes, They would recommend consultation with a specialist. If you cannot get out of the house because of terrible anxiety, tell her or him that over the phone.
No one will know when your brain will return back to normal. It depends on how your body, your own ways of coping, your support, what you have learn, your experience, what you can tolerate, etc. When I thought someone would have real problems here, one time, the woman went through brain zaps for a couple of days and was fine afterwards, and that was a surprise (and a nice one). Some people, like Paxilled, go through an extreme protracted response, like what he described before. I think the better question would be how do you deal and what can be done for what you are going through now to alleviate or lessen the symptoms, and what is it that you are going through.
I understand why my advice does not give you much relief, and I did not realize you have been off Seroquel for awhile. I do not expect you to go back on it, because you are not on taper down mode anymore. That is usually not done:) The question is: it is withdrawal or is it return of symptoms of the condition that you were being treated for.
When I was lowered down, my doctor told me to watch it for return of specific symptoms, which were the reasons why I was on the drug in the first place, and, for me, like you, I was placed on Seroquel after a suicide attempt. I had specific symptoms that brought it on. I didn't have any of those symptoms, and so, we kept going with the wean. I watched out for those AND withdrawal symptoms.
I am wondering if you are actually going through withdrawal symptoms or having return of your condition or something new because you are off your mess, One of the other things of getting off psych meds is that the doctor has to provide for the psych support either through a therapist along with the expertise of his knowledge on weaning. The reason why I am not so sure it is withdrawal is because you said you were fine for 5 days, and then it reoccurred.
Even after getting off any psych med, just because the wean is over, doesn't mean treatment is over, because of the fact you have to deal with a potent drug free life.
I had gotten off my psych meds by myself without telling any of my doctors about it when I was much younger, because I felt I was cured, misdiagnosed and, basically, that I knew better or, like you, just didn't want to be on the drug, which is in your medical rights to decide that (as long as you are not endangering yourself or others and a few other "tipping" conditions, but even then, you still have to be informed and agree if you are capable to reason and understand that or someone else who is designated to speak for you is consulted, unless it is extremely urgent). When I told my doctors I was having problems and why, they dealt with it.
They kept in mind and respected what I wouldn't do, although sometimes, they informed and encouraged; then, I would decide on that or think some more or they would think some more, and we would work on that. Sometimes, They would recommend consultation with a specialist. If you cannot get out of the house because of terrible anxiety, tell her or him that over the phone.
No one will know when your brain will return back to normal. It depends on how your body, your own ways of coping, your support, what you have learn, your experience, what you can tolerate, etc. When I thought someone would have real problems here, one time, the woman went through brain zaps for a couple of days and was fine afterwards, and that was a surprise (and a nice one). Some people, like Paxilled, go through an extreme protracted response, like what he described before. I think the better question would be how do you deal and what can be done for what you are going through now to alleviate or lessen the symptoms, and what is it that you are going through.
I understand that but it didn't give me much relief. I haven't seen my psychiatrist in over a year so I did it with my GP which whom I have a strong relationship with and he helps alot. I trust him with every medical decision.
I just want to know what to do. I can't go back on the med and start the weaning again because what if that could kill me?
When will my brain return to normal function.
I'm thinking of making a appointment with him to see what's going on, thats if I can get out of the house due to this terrible anxiety.
I just want to know what to do. I can't go back on the med and start the weaning again because what if that could kill me?
When will my brain return to normal function.
I'm thinking of making a appointment with him to see what's going on, thats if I can get out of the house due to this terrible anxiety.
When I was talking about a sense of instinct and fine tuning, I forgot to say, it isn't just based on the med, but also, knowing and having a sense of how a person is with medications and knowing how their body response, because each body is different and what a person can take is different. For myself, I tended to be a "concerning" patient when it came to meds. My response was all over the books a lot of times from extreme reaction, varying sensitivities to nothing at all. so, when I was being weaned, I was seeing my psychiatrist weekly to biweekly where he could assess me directly and see what I was like besides what I was reporting, I sometimes did not notice things like fine tics or movements, because I can put up with a lot of things or think it was not a big deal, when he felt it was. That is one of the problems that can happen when self diagnosing,
Did you call up the doctor who is weaning you off the Seroquel that you are going through those symptoms yet? the whole point of being a wean is to prevent withdrawal, especially acute withdrawal. I was weaned down off Seroquel and a few other antipsychotics, and when I was weaned off Seroquel. It took a while, like 4 or 5 months, and the taper was very slow. I was on Seroquel for years. When I was being weaned, I didn't experience any withdrawal effects, and when it came to the last dose range under 100 mg, I thought I could be weaned down faster, but he said no. He also said that if I feel or go through anything bothersome or showed any withdrawal symptoms, to give him a call, and then, usually he adjusted the drug dose depending on what I was describing. One time, it wasn't the psych med, and he had me see my primary dr, and then, they talked to each other, and my stomach problems were treated with probiotics and change in diet for a couple of weelse.
With meds, there are times when standard dosages have to be adjusted to the individual, and that includes weans and tapers, Anyone who is experienced with tapering drugs know this, who have done it for years, The more years you do it with the more patients, you almost develop a fine tuned instinct and insight for that med, and it helps to share experience and knowledge with others who develop a sense for such things. It helps to communicate,
So, you need to keep that line of communication open. With weans, you have to give feedback and report as soon as things occur, then the rate and dose of the drug gets adjusted, Occasionally, another drug is added temporary to deal with whatever else goes on that is concerning, like seizures, for instance,
Apparently, I had a really good and expert psychiatrist, because I never really experienced withdrawal symptoms. However, it really helped him treat me and myself that I was really good at reporting and picking up the phone, and he was really good at calling me back timely, When I think that it is something I could put up with for a couple of hours or a day, I was surprised when he would call me back less than 5 minutes after I called, and assess the situation further, and then quickly adjusted.
When it comes to weaning, the communication and partnership of working together, giving feedback, reportng and adjusting to make the wean successful is key to a trouble free wean. Yes, there can be weans that are very uncomfortable, like during with alcohol and heroin withdrawal when the drugs are cut off abruptly because they aren't available or given, but under supervision, it is watched and dealt with to keep the withdrawal symptoms limited. This isn't the case with your Seroquel wean, where it is a supervised wean from the start. It sounds like your wean has to be adjusted and go more slowly than you like.
Usually, when your dose is that low, your prolactin levels should have dropped a lot, and the body does go through adjustments itself, in response to drugs being added on or being taken off. There are other things like thyroid, blood chemistry, besides brain and heart issues that get affected with drug removal or add ons. My fasting sugar level dropped 20 points for example when Seroquel was taken off.
I am only giving you my Seroquel wean as an illustration. Please don't compare your experience exactly to mine in relation, or vice versa,
With meds, there are times when standard dosages have to be adjusted to the individual, and that includes weans and tapers, Anyone who is experienced with tapering drugs know this, who have done it for years, The more years you do it with the more patients, you almost develop a fine tuned instinct and insight for that med, and it helps to share experience and knowledge with others who develop a sense for such things. It helps to communicate,
So, you need to keep that line of communication open. With weans, you have to give feedback and report as soon as things occur, then the rate and dose of the drug gets adjusted, Occasionally, another drug is added temporary to deal with whatever else goes on that is concerning, like seizures, for instance,
Apparently, I had a really good and expert psychiatrist, because I never really experienced withdrawal symptoms. However, it really helped him treat me and myself that I was really good at reporting and picking up the phone, and he was really good at calling me back timely, When I think that it is something I could put up with for a couple of hours or a day, I was surprised when he would call me back less than 5 minutes after I called, and assess the situation further, and then quickly adjusted.
When it comes to weaning, the communication and partnership of working together, giving feedback, reportng and adjusting to make the wean successful is key to a trouble free wean. Yes, there can be weans that are very uncomfortable, like during with alcohol and heroin withdrawal when the drugs are cut off abruptly because they aren't available or given, but under supervision, it is watched and dealt with to keep the withdrawal symptoms limited. This isn't the case with your Seroquel wean, where it is a supervised wean from the start. It sounds like your wean has to be adjusted and go more slowly than you like.
Usually, when your dose is that low, your prolactin levels should have dropped a lot, and the body does go through adjustments itself, in response to drugs being added on or being taken off. There are other things like thyroid, blood chemistry, besides brain and heart issues that get affected with drug removal or add ons. My fasting sugar level dropped 20 points for example when Seroquel was taken off.
I am only giving you my Seroquel wean as an illustration. Please don't compare your experience exactly to mine in relation, or vice versa,
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