Could do with your opinion? x

[starbunny]

My 17 year old daughter with a family history of bipolar on both sides has been having problems for some time. She has anger daily outbursts which goes beyond any normal reaction - for example last weekend she wouldn't stop screaming in the middle of the night waking up the neighbours who called over and had to take away the other kids for their own safety. She punched me in front of them and head-butted me in my face and told them all to f*** off acting totally irrational and rolling on the floor. This went on for hours.

She also claims to be suicidal and has taken overdoses alongside bottles of vodka when she has stayed with friends. The GP prescribed her prozac, giving her insomnia and kept increasing the dose up to the max. When this increased the outbursts became worse, then he prescribed her DIET PILLS believing it could be a weight issue and now I believe she may be abusing them as well. He refused repeatedly to refer her to the Child and adolescent mental health team saying they had a 2 year waiting list, and told me if she overdosed again she wasn't likely to die anyway and not to worry. I live in a rural area and resources here are extremely scarce. In exasperation I wrote to and visited another retired GP who stuck up for me and used his position to make the local GP refer her (Thank GOD) and when the team leader returns from annual leave in two weeks I will have an idea how long it will be.

She also has a history of headaches and has had some seizures - the last one resulted in her needing stiches on her face and inside her mouth. She gets so emotionally charged she has no control over what she is doing - do you think she could possibly have bipolar? I know you will tell me to see the pdoc, but I'm interested in what you think. Could it be presenting itself in anger instead of mania? Also she has become increasingly anti social and will rarely venture out of her bedroom any more- I'm so worried.

[laurel9]

it sounds like she possibly is bipolar. i'd be careful when trying to get her to the hospital cause for me a  17 year old bipolar it is very scary just thinking about going to the hospital when your in that position.  It probally could  make her angrier and put u in more danger. It sounds to me like she is having some episodes like i do. My parents get really scared to and i get pretty violent when even when i'm on my medicine. The last time i went through something through that my parents were scared. I personaly get a bit scared for my sibslings when i look back on my episodes. I feel that my parents sometimes think that putting me in a mental hospital would be the best thing. I personally don't think so. what i need is uncodintaionall love and some one to talk to. I'd take her to a physch. i believe from what u wrote that she knows something is wrong. Try to talk to her. take what she is telling u to heart about her being sucidal. As a bipolar teen i want my parents to only do that as a last resort. Rember ur not the only parent going through this. Tread with caution untill she understands what  might be going on and your fears because she might not forgive u for some of the stuff u must do for ur safety.

[opus88]

Hi just a quick note, I just read you're reply. and only want to mention one thing to you starb. IF she should get so out of control again IMO call an ambulance and take her to the ER. its one sure way of getting a psych consult really quick!! besides she could well be a danger to herself or others and needs help....
I feel so bad for you as a mother and caught in between all this you are, but I do think when she gets feeling better she will thank you for the help and concern.
Adel is right she needs to be on an AP and soon.
prayers to you both

Adel_ezz, hello old friend, so sorry to hear your not well ...wishing you a speeding recovery.

[starbunny]

Thank you so much for your support :-) It has clarified for me that I do have legitimate reasons for concern.
Opus 88: The outbursts started before the prozac, which were treated by placing her on different contraceptive pills which had no effect, but the prozac definately has made them worse.
Paranoid-Cataclysm: Yes I have found that it does pay to badger people, as she now at least is being referred.
Moonpanda: When she gets this way it is almost impossible to make her listen, so I have tried to get her in the car to go to the hospital, but she just won't. I would have to call the doctor to us I guess. She does have anxiety/panic/irritability and explains that she feels' jittery and like she's drunk way way too many strong coffees' so she puts it. Not sure whether this is indicative of mania. The next time things happen on this scale I will call a doctor out regardless of how much she protests.
adel - hope you're feeling a bit better, yes I agree, given the risk factors for developing bipolar and the fact that she has high energy already AD's have escalated this. I would reluctantly rather see her on a MS or AP if a medication is required. I will keep you all posted with what develops regarding referral/ intervention. Again, thank you so much :-)

[adel_ezz]

Hi Starbunny

i read your post but didn't concentrate very well as i am not feeling well these days. yet from the 1st glance i believe she can have BP. Mine started with mixed states before the mania.

however my modest opinion, i think prozac (SSRI) could have been the cause of all this mess. She needs an AP only. Again sorry to say but your GP is an ignorant fellow/lady. What the hell AD's are for, depression only.i.e. low mood and energy which is not the case. In fact seroquel is the only solution i see her as a quick intervention before a proper pdoc decides whether to pursue seroquel or switch over to a proper MS

[moonpanda]

I think it might be worth taking her to the emergency room if she has another uncontrollable, violent episode like this. There is obviously something very serious going on, whether it be the beginnings of a bipolar disorder, another mood disorder, or even something neurological.

Bipolar disorder can manifest in many different ways, so it's not entirely out of the question. Having BP on both sides of the family is a pretty significant risk factor... how long do these episodes/moods last? Is the rage and anger accompanied by any other manic signs? The suicidal attempts and gestures are also very worrying to me. The doctor that brushed them off, saying that even if she attempts again, it won't be a big deal because she won't die, should have his license to practice medicine revoked. That's just insanity!

I don't know very much about the UK health system, but it must be extremely frustrating to have to wait months or even years to even see a psychiatrist. It's truly mind boggling.... This waiting time is circumvented in a crisis or emergency, right? From what you've described, whatever the root cause is for your daughter's problems (BP or something else), it's only getting worse and worse because of the Prozac and diet pills (both of which can aggravate or even trigger mania in susceptible individuals). If she becomes physically violent like that again, that's just not acceptable behavior, and that's no longer in the non-crisis realm, I would say. Same goes for suicide attempts. I would say consider taking her to the emergency room to get someone to figure this thing out before she does do serious harm to herself or someone else! Best of luck, I'm so sorry that your family is struggling with this right now!

[paranoid_cataclysm]

When I first called the Center for Mental Health here they told me it would take six months or longer to get in.  After I badgered them and called them every day about it (over the course of three days) they got me in after a month so sometimes when they tell you you have to wait a long *** time, it really only turned out to be a short while.

[opus88]

Yes I agree, I have a 39 yo son who has had trouble with moods and outbursts since his teen years. It took a good pdoc and 20 some years to get a dx of BP...............I'm not real up on the meds anymore....but isn't prozac an antidepressant? and won't antid use in BP people CAUSE mania?
I must say tho starbunny you're daughters screaming outbursts are on the extreme side, has this just started with the use of prozac?

[nikkie1580]

I have a 11yr old daughter with bipolar she has the same action and moods and outburst with headaches  no seizure with meds it help i would also get a neurologist it could been something eles more serious  I ALSO HAVE BIPOLAR acted that way my parents took me to eps emergency mental heath services you might want to see if any are in you area it gets help right away it helps .

[starbunny]

Hi and thanks for the quick reply. The only test she has had is an EEG which was normal and so they ruled out epilepsy for her. I was diagnosed as epileptic due to the nature of some of my own symptoms - extreme memory loss and confusion / dejavu hallucinations but the symptoms went as soon as I started an antipsychotic and now I don't believe I was epileptic either (the EEG was also normal for me). Some say there is a connection between epilepsy and bipolar but that's another subject entirely!

[Xila31]

Well, mania can be either euphoric or dysphoric, so if she is becoming increasing aggitated and irritable and lashing out it is possible. Anger can be part of bipolar. With the seizures though maybe it could be something else? Headaches and seizures make me wonder could it be a neurological thing? Has she ever had MRI or anything? I mean, it could be a combination of things, too. Not sure since I'm not a doctor. :(

I would say if you can find another GP, I know that might be hard, but it sounds like that one you're working with doesn't really work for her.