Is this normal for a 7.5 year old?!

[Busybusymom]

Good morning all!

I look after a 7.5 year old and have since she was 5. At 5 she was a bit spoiled and seemed to haves bit of a mean streak, but over all usually listened and was under control of herself. Fast forward to now, she will not listen to rules set by female adults, grabs from and bullies and tries to intimidate children younger than herself, takes toys from the younger kids and hides them, breaks toys, steals and when she is caught says she 'thought' the item was hers, lies about everything, when asked to stop an action that is harmful or rude she screams things like 'I hate you! You're stupid, ugly, smell like dog crap!' and when we need to do somethinglike clean up toys she lays on the ground and screams and kicks saying rude things as quick as she can think them. I've tried to speak with mom and dad about her behavior - dad clams up and won't talk but mom says she has read tons of parenting books and everysingle book she's read says this is 100% normal for 7 year olds. She also said that many public health nurses have told her this is considered acceptable for her age. I disagree completely.

I've been using timeouts but she leaves them and follows me around the house screaming obscenities at me. She's also told me 'being mean is fun. I hate you because there's no one else to hate. I will only be nice to you if you buy me a new toy or movie every 3 days'. Mom says time outs damage kids self esteem so at home when this happens she ignores whatever the action is even if it is harmful or rude to the younger sister, goes intoned own room and reads or has a shower etc, and after this child stops mom leaves her room says nothing about the disrespectful or mean actions and instead praises her for something she is good at. Of course children need praise but I believe they also need to have consequences to actions and that this type of behavior needs to be addressed. Anyhow, that's the gist of it. I terminated care yesterday but I wish her parents could see why this behavior is not normal or okay.......or am I out to lunch?

[adgal]

The others said it all, and so very well.  I too agree with your thoughts and think you have probably done the right thing in having her removed from your care.  One of the things you might mention to the parents. The word discipline actually means to teach.  And it is our responsibility to use appropriate discipline to teach our children correct behavior.  That is how we teach them to be independant, contributing and law abiding members of society.  I personally believe that by not disciplining our children we are doing them a huge disservice.

[skepticalpeach]

I think the other 2 ladies are right on target. Children need structure, and yes that does include discipline. What exactly does it mean when you say that she won't listen to women?? Does she respond better to men? To be honest she sounds like she is spoiled and needs some more structure and guidance.

[specialmom]

I love how rockrose and I can say basically the same thing . . .  and she can do it so concisely and eloquently.  I'm going to work on that! lol

[specialmom]

Hit post before i was ready---  sorry.  You are behind what choices she has so have ultimate control but she gets to make the choice of two things making her more apt to comply.  good luck

[specialmom]

Well, a parents role is to love a child enough to teach them how to behave.  More parents than I would like to think about fall sort of this job.  This is not to say that this behavior isn't 'normal' as it probably is for an untethered child that has no one helping them manage behavior.  To me, she sounds like she is crying out for attention.  

But that is her parents problem.  

This is my best advice--------  I would tell them that the situation of you watching her is not working out.  That you have other children to attend to as well (and frankly, I think it is a super long day for kids to go to school all day and then go to another group setting with other kids in which they have to maintain their behavior perfectly-----  I'd find a smaller, less stressful environment for my child or rearrange my work schedule) and you need to be fair to everyone.  You are spending so much time managing her that you don't get to care for the other kids as much as you should.  

Then, they will take her out of your care.  Problem solved on your end.  However, it has an up side for this family as well.  If she goes somewhere else and the same problems arise . . .  they will have yet another person tell them that their daughter's behavior is outside of normal.  They are obviously concerned about it as they have talked to the pediatrician about it.  They are just in denial that she is not behaving in an acceptable way because it is too hard to deal with.  

But your hands are tied.  You are simply a care giver which means you have no ability to really change the situation.  And that aggrevation in your life isn't worth it.  goodluck

Oh, and making a 7 year old your helper like she is so important and gets special big girl privileges as your special helper goes a long way for making a more complient child.  also, give lots of choices to a child like this.  You give a choice for all things you can, many many small choices.  

[RockRose]

I think you're completely on target,  and I also think the Dad is fully in your court on this,  and the mom also knows there's something wrong,  but has built up a defense because she has basically given up trying to correct this child.

I believe fully that kids are born sweet natured or mean spirited,  and certainly excellent parenting or horrific parenting can change that course a little.  

The mother seems to has compiled a defense that she uses when people criticize her child.  That shows she's had to do that.  Because people have noticed and made comments.

I think it was a very positive thing for this child that you terminated her - maybe now the mother will have to move forward in her denial that she has a problem.  No other care taker will put up with this for half the time you did.

Best wishes.