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The Liver, time table and nourishment
I have a question that I think relates to the liver. I have cirrhosis. I am suddenly waking at 3 am every night.
As I tend to do I search for answers to find out what I can do so that I can be awake at dinner time or at least noon.
I have read, someplace, that the liver does its cleansing from 1-3 am and for sensitive people it can awaken. I have also read the Hepatic Encephalopathy can cause a persons days and nights to get mixed up, I am hoping that is not my answer.
I have also had numerous tendon problems, a snapped one while just stepping down, golfers elbow, tennis elbow,
planter fascias, knee problems, now frozen shoulder. I thought I should try to find out what I can do to help myself.
I read on an acupuncturist site that tendon problems can be cause by the liver not nourishing the tendons. I am going to continue my search however wanted to ask here. I fought the HCV virus for many many years, it is now dead. I would like to get my life back or at least function. I hope it is ok to ask this question here.
I would appreciate any response, thank you
Dee
As I tend to do I search for answers to find out what I can do so that I can be awake at dinner time or at least noon.
I have read, someplace, that the liver does its cleansing from 1-3 am and for sensitive people it can awaken. I have also read the Hepatic Encephalopathy can cause a persons days and nights to get mixed up, I am hoping that is not my answer.
I have also had numerous tendon problems, a snapped one while just stepping down, golfers elbow, tennis elbow,
planter fascias, knee problems, now frozen shoulder. I thought I should try to find out what I can do to help myself.
I read on an acupuncturist site that tendon problems can be cause by the liver not nourishing the tendons. I am going to continue my search however wanted to ask here. I fought the HCV virus for many many years, it is now dead. I would like to get my life back or at least function. I hope it is ok to ask this question here.
I would appreciate any response, thank you
Dee
Best Answer
Hi Val, and welcome to the forum. I am really sorry to hear about this. Hector knows vastly more about this level of cirrhosis than I do, but he is sometimes unavailable for a few days at a time, due to his own illness, so I wanted to reach out in the meantime. Based on what you've said, your husband has pretty severe cirrhosis, with varices, ascites and hepatic encephalopathy. He should be under the care of highly skilled hepatologists and he should be on the liver transplant list. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen if he is continuing to drink. He is by definition an alcoholic if he is continuing to drink with such a sick liver, and no alcoholics are ever added to the waiting list for a new liver until they have been off the alcohol for at least six months. Livers are in short supply, so they are carefully apportioned to those individuals where they are both most needed AND most likely to provide a long life. Alcoholics are considered a poor placement, as they are likely to destroy the new liver quickly, when it might provide much longer benefit to someone who isn't drinking. That rule in itself can tell you a lot about how bad continuing alcohol use is for your husband's liver. If his doctors aren't saying this clearly it might be for one of the following reasons: 1) they are not adequately knowledgeable about liver disease, or 2) he may have made it clear in previous visits that he had no intention of giving up alcohol. If its the former, you should step in and help him transfer his care to hepatologists at a facility that does perform liver transplants, as even if he is not a candidate these are still the best doctors for treating him at this point. If it is the latter, then there isn't much you can do other than get yourself some support while encouraging him to give up the drinking. I'm sending lots of good wishes and hopes your way.
Thanks for your help, I'm new this forum and could not figure out how to address a certain person on this site, but I guess anyone's input would be great!
Hi I have taken your question and posted it so that Hector will see it, I hope that is ok. I was worried he would not see it here
Dee
Dee
Dear Hector,
I have been researching about cirrhosis for hours a day since my husband was diagnosed with it exactly one year ago. The symptoms started way before that with extreme tiredness, depression.... After that , in last October he was throwing up blood and had bloody stools for a month or two. He went to the hospital and got some plasma and the bleeding got fixed. reading your post made me realize that you have a lot of insights and good advice for people with this condition. Up to this date my husband is declining fast. He had a couple of episodes when he did not know where he was or who his family members were. His legs are swollen all the time in spite of water pills, he sleeps all the time, his stomach is huge and full of water, he has muscle aches, tiredness, he is always irritated and angry, he started to have a yellow colored skin. I have been trying to convince him to stop drinking and of course the doctors warned him also, but he is still consumes alcohol. He is in denial and does not think he is close to death at all. Do you have any idea how his progression will be in the next few months if he keeps this up? The doctors don't act too anxious, he has a check up in every three months and they never say anything alarming front of me. The last two times my husband did not want me to go so I have no idea what they told him. I'm really worried and don't know what to do or what to expect. Any input will be extremely appreciated. Thanks!
I have been researching about cirrhosis for hours a day since my husband was diagnosed with it exactly one year ago. The symptoms started way before that with extreme tiredness, depression.... After that , in last October he was throwing up blood and had bloody stools for a month or two. He went to the hospital and got some plasma and the bleeding got fixed. reading your post made me realize that you have a lot of insights and good advice for people with this condition. Up to this date my husband is declining fast. He had a couple of episodes when he did not know where he was or who his family members were. His legs are swollen all the time in spite of water pills, he sleeps all the time, his stomach is huge and full of water, he has muscle aches, tiredness, he is always irritated and angry, he started to have a yellow colored skin. I have been trying to convince him to stop drinking and of course the doctors warned him also, but he is still consumes alcohol. He is in denial and does not think he is close to death at all. Do you have any idea how his progression will be in the next few months if he keeps this up? The doctors don't act too anxious, he has a check up in every three months and they never say anything alarming front of me. The last two times my husband did not want me to go so I have no idea what they told him. I'm really worried and don't know what to do or what to expect. Any input will be extremely appreciated. Thanks!
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With cirrhosis I do not maintain a normal sleep schedule. This is common at my stage and you just learn to deal with it. I normally will sleep 4-6 hours, get up around do things and walk the dog, and can easily be asleep within two hours of waking up in the morning. I will sleep another hour or two, then be up for about 6-8 hours, fall asleep for another couple of hours...then be back up for 4 -6 hours and start over again.
There is no rhyme or normal pattern. The sleeping pattern can change daily or weekly. I do tend to find if I am out and about I can tend to stay up all day and if I can get over that 4 pm - 6 pm draw to sleep I will stay up. However, sometime this also means I can not sleep at all and will do a good 16-24 hours straight up and then crash.
Also a whole day of out and about activity, maybe even two days, will lead me to be down the next day for most of the day in a series of many cat naps.
I'll bring up a couple of things that haven't been mentioned.:
I eat very small meals. Try to also keep something like fruit, greek yogurt or a few other things and eat a handful or couple spoonfulls. Drinking plenty of water is essential at this point of my disease.
I try to walk my dog several times a day and I am still able to drive and usually will go somewhere with him to a local dog park or just go get a coffee. Activity is also essential.
Sometimes I don't really sleep, I just close my eyes. Swear I couldn't open them if I had to...so it is kind of like sleep but I hear everything going on. Other times I descend into a coma like sleep....
As someone said above, my liver controls my sleep patterns at this time. Everyone who is around me, even my 6 yr old granddaughter, can tell by the look on my face, my body movement and my eyes that I need to lay down. My family is the most freaked out by my sleep patterns because I was always the person who went to bed at 1 a.m. and was up by 5 or 6 a.m. Always said I could sleep when I was dead. No time to waste on sleep. LOL.
But now the reverse is true too. The other day I fell in to one of those coma sleeps, must have had disruptive breathing because my little dog was on top of my head licking my forehead, eyes and ears until I woke up. He will do that....hate it...and that's why he does it...he has a intuitive ability to tell when I am in trouble. He got his lease, plunked it on my chest. I clipped it to his collar and he pulled and jumped around so much he was funny that I got up but I was so dizzy but I went out the front door, and he led me straight over to the apartment office across the street. In retrospect I probably looked like a drunk walking over the lawn but I got to the door, opened it and went in and sat down and started talking to my friends who work there and within about 10 minutes I was fine.
Feel sorry for him because he usually only sleeps when I am awake and up. I'll open my eyes when I am sleeping and he is sitting in his chair, with his jaw on his paws, just watching me.
So staying active, drinking water, eating many small meals.and napping when my body tells me to or just plain resting is what I do. And yes it is aggravating to be watching a TV show or reading a book or being on the computer and the next second you wake up and it's 3 hours later. When I cook I never sit down....just on a kitchen stool if necessary.
And yes, it is also aggravating not to be able to do all social commitments you want to. If I go to the store today, that is it for the day. If I go to one of my grandkids soccer games today, I will not do anything tomorrow. I once was the person who could do a dozen things at the same time. Not now.
The activity helps the blood flow, the water flushes the liver and kidneys and keeps you hydrated which is important also for your skin, blood pressure and muscles. Eating smaller meals does not put the stress on the liver all at one time as a large meal would since your liver works to filter everything you intake into your body at this point and at my point will sap my energy. Not as much if I eat smaller meals.
I have muscle problems in my knees and hips and right now have a pulled tendon in my upper right arm. I am doing exercises for knees, hips and arm. As a nutritional person I think a lot of that comes from apathy because we aren't eating sufficient amounts of protein, might not have adequate vitamin and mineral levels, and have to watch iron, sodium and sugars. We aren't exercising or as mobile as we should be or were. Plus there are some medicines that can affect these issues after prolonged use. But we also could just be at a age after a active life that lack of the same activity leads to problems. My knew could be from being taking 18 yrs of dance, being a softball catcher for about 10 yrs, and bartending and working in 6 in. heel highs for too many years to count.
I am a yogi and have stopped doing all but minor stretches at this stage. Have a palates machine, a yoga chair, mats, etc.; a bike, and a total gym plus a library of yoga tapes. But I do walk about 3 - 4 miles a day, even with several rest breaks along the way and do stairs multiple times a day.
I never sleep at night anymore...haven't for a couple of years......a.m. appointments are the worst because this is when I sleep! I can feel the loss of strength and energy slowly ebbing away and know that eventually I will be sleeping more than being awake but until that time comes, I will put one foot in front of the other and keep on trying.
Oh one more thing...I had fatigue with the HCV....mine is still active. But my doc said that even if my HCV was gone, being in cirrhosis you now have cirrhosis issues. As in my case, if they cured my HCV today I'd still have to have a transplant. So while one may or may not lead to another, I look at all of this diseases or problems as separate and as a unit but mainly as separate issues.
Good luck to you finding your answers.