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Abuse and religion - how can they go together?
As a child - up until about 20yo - i was both physically and emotionally abused.
Now I am in therapy and doing really well, but am still confused about something.
I was taught when i was younger that God can do anything, he is good and loving. So how can he let 20 years of abuse happen to anyone? so many people have said it was mans fault, not gods; or that he works in mysterious ways. But if he is loving and good, and he can do anything - why didn't he stop it?
Now I am in therapy and doing really well, but am still confused about something.
I was taught when i was younger that God can do anything, he is good and loving. So how can he let 20 years of abuse happen to anyone? so many people have said it was mans fault, not gods; or that he works in mysterious ways. But if he is loving and good, and he can do anything - why didn't he stop it?
Hi there,
I see you think about it from a few different points of view. I did too.
These days I don't regard it as mankind's greatest question, rather mankind's greatest problem.
I'd much rather focus on what man is doing to man than any being no one has ever met as it is man that decides what goes on day to day and man that makes all the mistakes possible.
My real problem is, given how long man has been here and how many times man has repeated the same mistakes, what is it about man that stops us from learning and changing? We turn to violence and greed and ME at the drop of a hat despite the entire history of mankind proving that approach is a total failure. As is delusion.
I see you think about it from a few different points of view. I did too.
These days I don't regard it as mankind's greatest question, rather mankind's greatest problem.
I'd much rather focus on what man is doing to man than any being no one has ever met as it is man that decides what goes on day to day and man that makes all the mistakes possible.
My real problem is, given how long man has been here and how many times man has repeated the same mistakes, what is it about man that stops us from learning and changing? We turn to violence and greed and ME at the drop of a hat despite the entire history of mankind proving that approach is a total failure. As is delusion.
I think about this question too. Its probably the greatest question known to mankind.
Discussions centre on the question - Do you believe in God?
If you do - then you have to figure out if you believe in an interventionist God.
I saw a movie recently "God On Trial" possibly based on a true story about a trial that took place in Aushwitz. As I recall The Jews believed that according to Moses they were the chosen people and that God would take care of them. Therefore God was charged with breach of contract as the genocide against them was occuring.
We all have our losses -but the losses and suffering of innocent life at that time was just incredibly unbelievable. Where was God? The questions discussed in the movie canvassed that and what I recall the most was - mankind cant know Gods plan. And that perhaps the Jews were martyrs. That there was a purpose to it all....
I wont give away the courts finding in the movie - you'll have to watch it yourself!
Innocent suffering on a large scale happens daily nowadays too with wars in Iraq - Afganistan and starvation in Africa. The question is the same. Where is God?
There is no wonder so many, many people are depressed. I believe the number is growing. Treatment is expensive and total recovery is rare.
Depressed people realise they dont have control - and it would appear neither does God.
Thats enough to make anyone anxious. Thats enough to make anyone depressed
Non depressed people - think they have control - or perhaps they believe in an interventionist God - they will wake up sooner or later and realise neither is certain and become depressed too.
The human race is suffering, crumbling from within, dieing out NOT from Atomic anihilation or invasion of Martians or a supervirus but from a lack of hope and a disease called depression. Where is God?
Is God's will to take the little pill we take? Or is taking the pill against Gods wishes?
I dont know.
What percentage of the human race takes antidepressants now?
What will happen if and when 50 % 75% 95% of population taking anti depressants??
The pharmaceautical companies will be rich! (but no doubt also taking the little pill)
Is this Gods plan? Are we martyrs? Is there a point to our suffering?
George Washington once said "the only certainites are death and taxes".
Abraham Lincoln said "most people are as happy as they make up there minds to be."
Mmmmmmm They were simpler times. People had more faith. They had to! Science hadnt really been invented. People often died without any known cause. People often died of "old age" Your and my death certificate will say exactly how we died. We will likely live longer thanks to our great modern society......
Where is God?
Lets just stick around and see eh?
Discussions centre on the question - Do you believe in God?
If you do - then you have to figure out if you believe in an interventionist God.
I saw a movie recently "God On Trial" possibly based on a true story about a trial that took place in Aushwitz. As I recall The Jews believed that according to Moses they were the chosen people and that God would take care of them. Therefore God was charged with breach of contract as the genocide against them was occuring.
We all have our losses -but the losses and suffering of innocent life at that time was just incredibly unbelievable. Where was God? The questions discussed in the movie canvassed that and what I recall the most was - mankind cant know Gods plan. And that perhaps the Jews were martyrs. That there was a purpose to it all....
I wont give away the courts finding in the movie - you'll have to watch it yourself!
Innocent suffering on a large scale happens daily nowadays too with wars in Iraq - Afganistan and starvation in Africa. The question is the same. Where is God?
There is no wonder so many, many people are depressed. I believe the number is growing. Treatment is expensive and total recovery is rare.
Depressed people realise they dont have control - and it would appear neither does God.
Thats enough to make anyone anxious. Thats enough to make anyone depressed
Non depressed people - think they have control - or perhaps they believe in an interventionist God - they will wake up sooner or later and realise neither is certain and become depressed too.
The human race is suffering, crumbling from within, dieing out NOT from Atomic anihilation or invasion of Martians or a supervirus but from a lack of hope and a disease called depression. Where is God?
Is God's will to take the little pill we take? Or is taking the pill against Gods wishes?
I dont know.
What percentage of the human race takes antidepressants now?
What will happen if and when 50 % 75% 95% of population taking anti depressants??
The pharmaceautical companies will be rich! (but no doubt also taking the little pill)
Is this Gods plan? Are we martyrs? Is there a point to our suffering?
George Washington once said "the only certainites are death and taxes".
Abraham Lincoln said "most people are as happy as they make up there minds to be."
Mmmmmmm They were simpler times. People had more faith. They had to! Science hadnt really been invented. People often died without any known cause. People often died of "old age" Your and my death certificate will say exactly how we died. We will likely live longer thanks to our great modern society......
Where is God?
Lets just stick around and see eh?
I was raised as a devout Catholic and was educated in a strict Catholic school system.
Within that system, I was psychologically and emotionally traumatized... It wasn't until
I was well into my 20s that I was able to process and deal with that childhood abuse.
... God help us all from the horrible things that people do, (supposedly) in his name!
Within that system, I was psychologically and emotionally traumatized... It wasn't until
I was well into my 20s that I was able to process and deal with that childhood abuse.
... God help us all from the horrible things that people do, (supposedly) in his name!
We all struggle with this... I am 65 and this has been a struggle for all my years. What did help was the book "When Bad things Happen to Good People by Rabbi Kushner (sp?)
Check it out at the library, or buy a used copy at Amazon.com
I hear ya........
Cheers and a hug;
Dee
Check it out at the library, or buy a used copy at Amazon.com
I hear ya........
Cheers and a hug;
Dee
Your questions are valid! I was sexually abused growing up, and you do wonder where God is during all this. Then I watched my son and grandson suffer horrifically, only to die. I don't understand it either, especially where children are concerned. So, I struggle with this "God" thing a lot. It's a very controversial subject, and I respect others and their beliefs. But like you, makes one wonder........
I grew up in an abusive household. My father was a Minister. I went to Sunday school and church and our household was not like anything I heard there. I was glad for what I was taught because it gave me another way to live my life. I did not assume the teachings of Jesus were wrong I figured out my family was.
Therapists wonder how I survived my childhood as well as did. Its because I was taught one way to live and shown another and I figured out early on my family did not have a clue.
I am not super religious but I like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and lots of other things.
My family is all dead now. I have a good life with a family of my own. When I look back on it they were really sad people who never even knew what it was to have the love my husband and I have for each other.
Therapists wonder how I survived my childhood as well as did. Its because I was taught one way to live and shown another and I figured out early on my family did not have a clue.
I am not super religious but I like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and lots of other things.
My family is all dead now. I have a good life with a family of my own. When I look back on it they were really sad people who never even knew what it was to have the love my husband and I have for each other.
Hi Eve,
Firstly could I express my sadness for the abuse you suffered. And secondly gladness that therapy is helping. Sounds promising and I congratulate you for doing what you are.
To your question. Probably better that you ask this in a religious forum as religion is a topic that upsets many on depression forums. It's extremely divisive and discussions are usually restricted or disallowed because of the effect on those with depression already.
No offence to you or anyone in that, it's just how it works, or doesn't work.
Having said that you will find that you cannot get un unbiased answer to your question regardless of where you ask. The two sides, believers and no believers tend to be quite extreme and often even hate each other. There is, too civilised discussion but it is never in the form of a debate. It's always an argument with the religious quoting from the Bible and the non believers decrying that.
As such Eve, could I suggest to you that your question really is one you must resolve for yourself. You need to decide if the God you believe in would allow such abuse, not only to you but widespread as it has been since the dawn of time.
If you conclude your God wouldn't allow it you have a decision about your faith. Else you must decide your God does permit this violence and abuse.
You see what I mean? It's your mind that is grappling with the obvious clash between what is taught and what occurs. Most believers do exactly what you say. Write it off as mysterious ways. And non believers seize on it as proof there is no God.
Neither side moves an inch Eve and never will. Except the non believers who would mostly change their minds if thre was evidnece finally produced that God is real, Until then, it's a belief system, not fact.
So you know most of my life I was of the "Who cares" opinion. About twenty years ago I needed to find this God promised to me. I didn't so have concluded there is no God. Until proof shows otherwise I have that view.
As a male I must say I cannot understand why or how men (usually men) can abuse those vulnerable and weaker. I see the need to protect such people and also hope those stronger than I would do that for me. Alas that is not realistic. Oh that it was Eve.
Hang in there, if therapy is helping you are on the road to a better life.
Firstly could I express my sadness for the abuse you suffered. And secondly gladness that therapy is helping. Sounds promising and I congratulate you for doing what you are.
To your question. Probably better that you ask this in a religious forum as religion is a topic that upsets many on depression forums. It's extremely divisive and discussions are usually restricted or disallowed because of the effect on those with depression already.
No offence to you or anyone in that, it's just how it works, or doesn't work.
Having said that you will find that you cannot get un unbiased answer to your question regardless of where you ask. The two sides, believers and no believers tend to be quite extreme and often even hate each other. There is, too civilised discussion but it is never in the form of a debate. It's always an argument with the religious quoting from the Bible and the non believers decrying that.
As such Eve, could I suggest to you that your question really is one you must resolve for yourself. You need to decide if the God you believe in would allow such abuse, not only to you but widespread as it has been since the dawn of time.
If you conclude your God wouldn't allow it you have a decision about your faith. Else you must decide your God does permit this violence and abuse.
You see what I mean? It's your mind that is grappling with the obvious clash between what is taught and what occurs. Most believers do exactly what you say. Write it off as mysterious ways. And non believers seize on it as proof there is no God.
Neither side moves an inch Eve and never will. Except the non believers who would mostly change their minds if thre was evidnece finally produced that God is real, Until then, it's a belief system, not fact.
So you know most of my life I was of the "Who cares" opinion. About twenty years ago I needed to find this God promised to me. I didn't so have concluded there is no God. Until proof shows otherwise I have that view.
As a male I must say I cannot understand why or how men (usually men) can abuse those vulnerable and weaker. I see the need to protect such people and also hope those stronger than I would do that for me. Alas that is not realistic. Oh that it was Eve.
Hang in there, if therapy is helping you are on the road to a better life.
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