White see-through haze in both eyes when I move them. Advice please!

[Cloudburster]

35 male. This suddenly occurred 6 weeks ago while I was teaching my students in class. It definitely is a new thing.

Hard to explain, but it happens when I move my eyes left to right along with looking at something bright in the background.  As with my classroom with the bright windows in the background. Students in front of the window are quite dull indeed. But can occur in front of a bright laptop or watching TV too.

Depending on the brightness of the background, this white haze takes up 50% of my vision and flashes across in the OPPOSITE direction to the movement of my eyes. It does mimic floaters in the fact that they appear to keep moving for a millisecond longer after I stop moving my eyes. But they disappear a millisecond after I stop moving my eyes. They never block my vision as they disappear! Its more of one big haze in each eye. Not many smaller ones.

This began at a time where I was getting strange pressure headaches and some stress too. Occurred a week after a CT scan for the sinuses (all normal) and a week of anti-biotic usage and steroid nasal spray for suspected ear infection (ENT later found no problems with my ears). So I had an MRI of the head, all normal. Then I had my eyes checked by an optometrist. Initially without dilation, then the following week with dilation which included retinal photography and "puff test" of the eye for glaucoma.

Results all normal.

Still noticing this, another optometrist recently conducted a test with an OCT scanner. All normal.

I just came back from a skiing holiday and noticed the more usual floater symptoms (although ones I have never seen before) of BLACK squiggly lines and blotches in vision when looking at the snow.

Other possibly non related symptoms are dry eyes, noticeable blood vessels moving in towards the iris from all sides of the sclera. Random sandy feeling in eyes which at times appear to come from one of these blood vessels. Tender temples (although better recently) and muscle tightness in neck and under chin. Severe tinnitus!

Recent other tests: blood work including C-Reactive Protein and a Liver function test. Normal.

Thanks for reading my crazy rantings! Its just I have never heard of anyone discuss such floaters. Usually only small defined shaped ones. Advice would be appreciated.

[TrapperV]

Please see a post on floaters that I just put up, and tell me if it sounds like your experience at all. The blocking white haze is all too familiar. Not saying it's the same thing, but it does sound somewhat similar.

[Ray T Oyakawa, MD]

You should see an ophthalmologist and have him examine you for floaters.  This has to be looked for and test such as OCT look at the retinal and not the vitreous (except in rare cases).

Dr. O.

[Cloudburster]

Thanks, however as I said, the optometrist checked my retina and conducted an OCT scan.

I am going again today, however this is the third time.

So can floaters be this abnormal?

[Michael5655]

hey cloadburster i have the same haze thign in my eye but from what i've read with the other comments you can kind of move them around when you move your eyes mine just seem to come and go as they please at random times they do come sometimes when lighting change but when i try to get them to come again i cant but they do come up more mostly when im on the computer

[TrapperV]

Cloudburster, It sure sounds somewhat like my floaters, but some of the other comments you made also make me wonder about something called temporal arteritis (your tender temples, sore neck, etc). The CRP test you had is one that is done to try to rule this out, but another is a blood SED rate test, which can check for signs of inflammation. The definitive test involves doing a biopsy of a small sample of temple arterial tissue.

Temporal arteritis is primarily something that occurs in much older individuals, though.

One other thing comes to mind. myofascial pain involving the occipitofrontalis muscle, and other related head, neck and scalp muscles. In addition to some of the things related to muscle pain, it also can cause weird visual symptoms.

Good luck at your next appointment, and please let us know what you find out.

[Cloudburster]

Funny, I have had a few ppl comment on this possibility. I have today also been to a new doctor who I asked for a SED or ESR blood test and a chest x-ray. He agreed and I had it done today. I should find out tomorrow.

The muscle pain and strange tight tendons under the neck are a possible cause also. Could tight eye muscles cause such weird symptoms, I wonder.

[TrapperV]

It's all so interconnected it's hard to isolate. Certainly eye muscle/facial nerve, neck problems can affect the eyes. A fine down to earth chiropractor/physical therapist once told me about some fairly common neck, shoulder and whiplash injuries that can lead to visual problems. I can't imagine haze being one of them, but the visual perception might be altered, appearing like haze.

The tinnitus might also be part of the clue. Have you considered TMJ?

Here's a link you may be interested in:

http://www.dentisttmj.com/tmj/tmj-symptoms/tmj-symptoms-5-signs-you-may-have-tmj/24/

[Cloudburster]

Ah you should be a doctor Trapper!

Yes the tinnitus is a weird one. Due to the virus no one could find? Or TMJ? Who knows.

I have been checked TMJ. The jury is still out on that one. I don't have the pain in the jaw associated with it but I do have bad clicking. One doc thinks I have it but my dentist disagrees. I have a referral to one of the best TMJ specialists in my area, but as yet I have not made the appointment.

I also have been checked by a chiro. Nothing major there but I stopped going to him as I wasn't feeling good from his neck crunches. Felt more dizzy!

Both not life threatening, so...

[TrapperV]

"Ah you should be a doctor Trapper! "

Well, thanks - I guess.

I've just done a lot of reading on the subject. I'm a technician in a different field, and it's in my nature to dig into problems that interest me, and I've been down the same road as you looking for answers to similar problems. Your symptoms sound so much like things I've been investigating over the past few years. I drive some of my doctor's half crazy with my theories and questions, I bet.

I researched the connection I just happened to piece together between 2 seemingly unrelated problems a couple of years ago that involved cellular responses to certain events. I'm no biochemist by any stretch, but the connection was too obvious to ignore, yet I had never seen anything in the available literature regarding this. I wrote up my conclusions and presented them to one of my doctors, and he was amazed at what I concluded, and thought I was dead on. Perhaps I'll see him present this in a scientific paper some day. (I won't expect any credit, and it may be I'm actually really not correct). It was a lucky find on my part, and I didn't understand the great majority of the science jargon I was reading, but sometimes getting the bigger picture is enough to grasp the obvious. I'm not bragging, just showing my curiosity.

Also, it's kind of nice to narrow down the possibilities in order to go see the right person first. That can save a bunch on medical bills, for sure.

Let me know how things turn out for you, please..

[Cloudburster]

Tell us what you wrote down and presented? Its good to have a doctor that listens. He's a keeper. Well done. So what did he do about it? What's the plan?

I went to the Ophthalmologist. That was a waste of time. He did less than the Optician. I waited longer in the waiting room. It cost much much more. He said I had floaters. He said this before even examining me.

Anyway, I'm running out of money with this. Ha.

Let us know how you get on.

[TrapperV]

Clodburster, the more i read your description, the more I believe you have the same type of floaters I do - translucent sheets that move in and out of visual fields - not the black or brown specks. They appear as sheets to me instead of spots or cobwebs.  My retinal specialist tool one look at the good eye the other day and confirmed that he saw a huge bunch of large floaters. We are going to discuss possibilities after the other eye retinal stuff is done.

[Cloudburster]

Trapper, its a possibility but mine don't pass my vision all by themselves. Its ONLY when I move my eyes and ONLY when in front of something bright.

An example, I am sitting in front of the bright laptop screen in the lounge room. I quickly look up to the TV, and I see this white sheet move fast down my vision. Then I look quickly from the TV down to the laptop, the hazey sheet moves up past my vision.

Its never just passed my eyes with no cause. As in, if I am looking out a bright window, the sheet doesn't just fall past my eyes. Never.

Strange thing is, once I stop moving my eyes it disappears.

Although no one can detect this, I am sure it is in the eye as it does keep moving for a millisecond after I stop moving the eyes. I think as soon as I stop moving my eyes, even though the cloudy sheet may be in my vision, my brain dismisses it and sees past it.

I've scanned the whole net I'm sure and only come across one, just one post that described what I see. Unfortunately the post was made quite some time ago and I cannot contact the person.

Follow this link from google cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nfF9JkMLIJgJ:www.************.com/boards/eye-vision/721398-cloudy-area-eyes.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-a

The actual link has been removed from the website so its the only way to see it. I will also post the summary below:

Can anyone tell me if these cloudy areas I see when I move my eyes are floaters? They are more noticeable in bright light . When I look up or down, right or left , they shoot across my line of sight in the opposite direction. I find them distracting, especially when I am driving. I have always had floaters but they are much darker and tiny.

[TrapperV]

That EXACTLY describes mine. Eye movement causes opposing movement across the field of vision. As I mentioned mine are opaque clouds that are not specks or cobwebs, but are like translucant sheets that move with eye motion and sometimes completely block my central vision. That is exactly my point of why this type of "floater" is so annoying and life changing and so underappreciated as a handicapping problem.

In my small acquired knowledge of this type of floater, I've deduced that they generally appears after a PVD - a posterior vitreous detachment. Dr. Ray may wish to comment on this.

[cloudburst]

OK interesting. Mine thankfully don't "block" my vision.. yet. Funny how the specialists cannot see anything in there at all!

My tinnitus is getting much worse btw.

Eyes.. ears... I'm not that old! :)

How you getting along?

Where is Dr. Ray??

[Saschavani]

Hi Cloudburster,
I'm 19 years old and I have the same haze you are talking about. But outdoors it is a black haze. First I had stabbings in head in one side, and since a while I see a lot of floaters and the haze you're talking about. My GP doesn't know what it is, he did examine my eyes but didn't see any deviations. He found a polyp in my nose so i have a little bit of clogged sinuses and I have a very painful neck and back.
Do you think this could be the cause of the hazes and floaters?
I hope you can answer this question. I'm sorry for my english.

[Cloudburster]

Hey Sas

Have you had any other tests done? Any scans?

Yes mine are black when outside. For example looking at a bright sky or snow.

I also seem to have more red veins protruding into my eyes ... but then again, they could have always been there.

I'm thinking it may be Candida? My doc thought I had this a while before I saw floaters.

Its all a little bit like tinnitus. If you stop thinking about it you don't notice it as much.

[Cloudburster]

Also Sas, can you find a place where you see the white haze? For example, the best place is in my classroom and I look towards the bright windows outside. I move my eyes left to right and I see it easily.

Funny thing, I got my wife to the same room in the classroom and she says she sees the haze too! Maybe she was trying to make me feel better though.

So try and ask someone else to see if they can see what you see.

[Saschavani]

No, i haven't have any scans because my doc doesn't thinks it's something bad after the examine. And I can't get a scan without his permission.

A place were I see the haze for example is when it's dark in the room and I look at a point in the room and then to the television, I see a white haze (it looks like the television) a millisecond later. Or when I walk outside and I look around I see the black haze a lot, and I also see the black haze when i look at a white paper or my computer screen. It seems like the haze is white when the room is dark and the haze is black when the environment is white. I have the same problems in  a classroom with a lot of windows. Notable is that I have it in one eye. I also have a tinnitus, it also seems like it's in one ear.

It's funny you're wife says that, because my sister says she also sees a white stripe. But I think it's just to let us feel better about it.

However, I think we have the same problem. The different is i'm 19 and you're 35. And a different is that my hazes are not in the opposite directions.

You've had scans and tests, and I think you have to trust the experts. Even if it's hard to ignore the floaters, hazes and tinnitus.

Funny is i'm from Germany so i'd look in my language on Google, but it seems like no one on the internet has the same problems. That's a good sign isn't it? It's better than the symptoms were from a grave disease.

About 4 weeks (pfff..) I have an appointment with a chiropractor. I hope he can explain my problems.

But do you think my sinuses and my neck and back can be a cause of this problem?

[Cloudburster]

Hallo Sas, alles gut?

I've been to Germany. A little place called Paderborn.

I did have strange sinus problems and neck pain before this happened. I went to a few doctors. Some said I did have sinus problems and others said I didn't. I went to a specialist who confirmed I didn't have any sinus issues. But he did find my hearing was a little bad. This was from the tinnitus.

Sinus and eye problems do seem to be related, so I've read. Do you get blurry vision?

But I still do have the neck pain. Its to the right. It causes headaches.

I was thinking of going back to the chiropractor. I went twice but no help. I would try a physiotherapist first if you can.

[Cloudburster]

My upper back, neck muscles are really knotty by the way. Knotty, do you know this word? Like tight rope. How is yours? Maybe this is related as when its bad it extends all the way up the scalp and into the face.

I'm going to try a physio and maybe acupuncture. I need to relax these tight muscles. Maybe I should start going to the gym?? :)

[Saschavani]

Hii, I don't know that place haha.
Maybe it's all about the neck, if we both suffer from pain in the neck. A lot of nerves are in it, even the eye nerves I think.
I have also a lot of headaches, but only when i'm in school. I think that has to do with the wooden chairs there. In school the headache are from 1 to 5 a'clock. At home I have comfortable chairs, so when I have a day off or weekend, then I have no headaches at all! So I think this definitely has to do with my back and neck.
So maybe our neck and back are also the causes of the floaters and hazes.

Personally am I really scared of a brain tumor. But when my doc says that's not true I have to believe him, right? And I think if you have that, I would have also other serious complaints, don't you think?

[Saschavani]

By the way, going to the gym is a very good idea. Or just walk every day half an hour. You'll feel a lot better!

[Cloudburster]

Actually, I think we are on to something here Sas.

The tinnitus may be caused by the tight neck muscles. It is known that TMJ disorder causes tinnitus "When jaw muscles spasm the ear muscles react by pulling the eardrum too tight, and this situation can result in tinnitus." If the ear muscles can be affected by other muscles, our tinnitus may be caused by our bad necks?

I did have an x-ray of my spine by the chiro and he found a curvature of the spine. A lot of people have this but mine was quite distinct.

Anyway, regarding our floaters, we know the eye is controlled by muscles. And when the muscles get lazy we get blurry vision and need glasses. Maybe the haziness we see is related to the muscles. I know that I had headaches around my eyes which I realised was due to muscle strain.

I'll research more into this. I think its either muscle and/or nerve issues here. Especially when I have had nearly every test done on me possible, and all normal! There is no easy way to test for muscle or nerve damage. Maybe a good dose of muscle relaxant will prove something??? My wife is a nurse at the emergency department... I may get her to pick me up some for a little test.

[Cloudburster]

Ha we are on at the same time.

No you don't have a brain tumor, trust me and your doc. You would have more than just a headache and it wouldn't go away.

I am a teacher at school so I am usually on my feet and then I come home and work on the farm. But I still spend too long at the computer... like now!

tschüss!

[Saschavani]

Thank you for saying it isn't a brain tumour. I can't think about anything else the last few weeks, and since a week I have the haze and floaters so you can imagine how I feel about that. I'm only 19...

10 october is my appointment with the chiropractor, i'll tell him my problems and hear what he has to say. Maybe he'll make some x-rays too. But I don't think it's a deadly disease, do you?? otherwise it was already known. I hope so...

Well, I'll keep you updated and I hope you'll do the same.
Bye!