Recurrent gall stones in the bile duct after gall bladder removal

[brigitte425]

I had my gall bladder out in 2003.  Since then I have had recurrent gall stones that get stuck in my bile duct and have to be removed by ERCP.  It didn't happen until 2005.  Then it was close to another year and it happened again.  Since then I have had to have this done 1 to 2 times per year.  I have gotten pretty sick a couple of times, but mostly my doctor schedules me in time before that happens.  He is very much trying to convince me to have an operation that attaches my bile duct to my intestines.  He says that he is almost certain that will solve the problem.  I have tried every supplement and homeopathic remedy known to man to stop the stones from forming without any long-term success.  The ursodial I take 600 mg 3 times per day slows it down a little, but doesn't really fix the problem.  After having the ERCP I usually feel pretty goood for about 5 months then I start getting symptoms again and have to have it done again.  There is no real explanation as to why it keeps happening.  Now they are saying it must be genetic.  The problem I have is that the operation is major surgery and there is still no guarantee that it will work.  I met with the surgeon once and he told me that it won't stop the stones but they will be able to move through easier and more directly.  He said that if they get stuck after the operation, the only way to get them through would be to stick something through my back and push them through that way.  It seems that so far the ERCP is a better alternative.  I have had difficulty finding much information on this operation.  My stones are all cholesterol stones and everything else is normal.  Does anyone have any information on this re: is there any way to stop the stones from forming, is the operation the best option, how I can get more information on this happening to people and how they made out if they got the operation, etc.  Thanks for any help you can give me.              

[CalGal]

Brigitte, I assume you're eating a low fat diet? Have they done an MRCP or ERCP with dye to look at the structure of the bile duct? If so, did they find a very 'pouchy' or twisted common bile duct? Is there any 'stump' left of the cystic duct onto the common bile duct?

[juju628]

I HAVE HAD MY GAULBLADDER REMOVED AS WELL FIVE YEARS AGO AND I HAVE HAD STONES IN MY BILE DUCT ONCE A YEAR EVERY YEAR AND TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I DONT THINK THEY HAVE A CLUE ON HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM THEY ONLY WANT TO USE YOU AS A GINNY PIG IF YOU ASK  ME I STAY PRETTY WELL SICK ALL THE TIME NOW MY LIVER AND KIDNEYS START TO SHUT DOWN BEFORE THEY WILL EVEN HELP ME OR DO ANOTHER ERCP EVEN WITH MY HISTORY OF THEM THEY ALMOST LET ME DIE BEFORE THEY BELIEVE THERES ANOTHER STONE AND I DONT THINK WE ARE PRODUCING THEM I BELIVE THE DOCTOR THAT REMOVED THE GAULBLADDER LOST THEM AND WHEN THEY TAKE ONE OUT THEY THINK THEY HAVE THEM BUT I THINK THAT THE OTHERS ARE JUST BEHIND THEM AND TAKES ITS PLACE ONCE REMOVED SO I BET IF THEY GAVE YOU OR ME A WEEK AFTER THE ERCP AND DID ANOTHER ONE THERE WOULD ALREADY BE ONE TO REMOVE UNTIL THEY GET ALL THEY LOST WHEN TAKING OUT THE GAULBLADDER IN THE FIRST PLACE SEE BUT THAT WOULD MAKE THEM WRONG BY SAYING OH ITS BEEN SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR SO YOUR BODY MADE ANOTHER ONE .I HOPE YOU SEE WHAT IM SAYING AND I HOPE IT HELPS AND GOOD LUCK LORD KNOWS WE NEED IT .juju628

[momma92775]

Bridget, I am having the exact same problems. Had an MRCP in Oct 2011 stint and stones removed, ERCP on Jan. 26, 2012 stones and bile removed, ANOTHER ERCP done on Jan 31, 2012.....My live counts go sky high, jaundice, orange urine, etc.   My gallbladder was removed in March of 2011.  I ALSO need to get to the bottom of this mess.  I can feel it starting up again. Please let me know if you don't mind what your dr. is telling you.
Thanks
Laurie

[jackoooo]

gallbladder removed 15 years ago. 2 months ago an attack and in hosp for 5 days.  Heart cath shows no blockage no stents.  I know its a stone.  Same symptoms as gallbladder attack.  Last week another 3 days in hospital.  Nurse tells me of yellow eyes and skin, STONES likely.  Another heart cath and this time they put in stent with out consent.  I get mri the next day and they find stone.

Now I have a problem.  With stent I must take meds and I can't get operation for the stone because of the meds.  Did I really need a stent, only 2 months earlier I didn't.

Before this I took no meds at all and very healthy 62 yr old male.

Any comments or thoughts.

[Christopher R Watters, MD]

Hard to believe that you suddenly developed a stenosis in two months time. The number one cause of non cardiac chest pain is reflux, gallbladder disease is probably next. A second catheterization without any evaluation for other causes definitely falls short of the mark. You are now in a situation shared by a growing number of patients. They have had coronary stents placed where there is little or no data demonstrating any increase in life expectancy and on a medicine that increases their risk of bleeding. The drug eluting stents were initially covered with Plavix for six months like the bare metal stents had been previously. Unfortunately patients started to die from the stents plugging up with clots. So now the patient has to remain on the medicine forever. This becomes a significant issue for the rest of their lives because there is now no such thing as minor surgery. I had a 42 year old patient that worked as a groundskeeper at a local university. A very hard working guy. He noticed right upper quadrant pain after eating and was sent to a local cardiologist for evaluation. He subsequently underwent a cardiac cath and was found to have normal coronary arteries. When he again went to his PCP with the same complaints a few months later he was again sent to the cardiologist "just in case they missed something." He had ANOTHER cardiac cath which was again normal before he finally had a simple ultrasound which showed his gallstones. As a non-cardiologist, it has become quite frustrating.

[slwp]

Are you still active on this site. I am going through the exact situation and would love to hear from you.

[Galled]

I had my gallbladder removed 16 years ago. I have had pain for the last couple of years which got worse last year.Been taken to hospital 3 times with suspected heart problems sent home twice evan though liver function tests up the creek. On the third occasion I was admitted saw a gastric doctor who diagnosed the problem straight away and it was confirmed by MRI. ERCP done - after a week or so felt great for about 5months now probs starting again.Pain and very yellow wee. Been back to my GP and he has referred me back to hospital and arranged blood tests. I was told that this was very unusual bit from this site it would appear not!

[LEAgirl]

I know you take ursidiol but maybe a daily intake of bile salts

although it may conflict with the medication, but I'm not sure.

I have gallstones too and they want me to have surgery

but after reading all these stories sometimes

I would rather have my gallbladder

Sometimes I take apple cider vinegar pills

you may want to strengthen your liver with

don quai or milk thistle


good luck

[SarahSunshine82]

I am in the same situation. I was getting sick and having pain every few weeks on and off for a year. It got to the point I was passing out and went to the er. This is 2008. I was told my gallbladder was about to rupture and it needed to come out. I had surgery and was discharged a day later. The next day I started throwing up and turned yellow. I was taken back to the hospital and told I had stones in my bile duct and had to have a stent put it. I was in the hospital for about a week. I felt moderately better and symptom free until around 2010 when I started feeling like I was having a gallbladder attack again. I went back to the er and they were surprised to find I still had a stent and no one had done a procedure to remove it. They removed the stones that were stuck in my bile duct and the stent and I was discharged about a week later . A month or two goes by and same symptoms return I am back in the hospital with more stones and have another ERCP. I have changed to low fat diet but nothing helps. I have severe heartburn daily that is only calmed by 2 protonix twice a day, There is little I can eat with out developing symptoms. The stones came back again in 2012 and now in 2014 I have the same issue and I am waiting on new insurance to go into effect so I can go have them out again. Every time this happens they marvel that they have come back . No one can offer me any solution and I am so discouraged on how to live with this .

[Oktoberfest]

Have you tried Gluten Free diet?

[saffron263]

I had my gallbladder removed 5 months ago and my gallbladder had practical disinter grated so was very messy and two stones were left behind. The were fine I. The small duct but moved into the main duct and caused horrendous  pain again. One stone was removed by endoscopy but the other one is stuck fast and has  to be 'blasted'. This is sing done in a few days time, so it seems this is the problem you have.

[meglaulanmar]

My doctor essentially told me in almost all cases they are stones left behind ....especially when the gall bladder has sever infection and has exploded or something like mine did.  He said he wouldn't even run a test ...he would go back in....because most people suffer a long time due to tests not showing a LARGE percentage of stones so he wouldn't waste his time.  He said if I felt like it was one...it was.  That is not a feeling I could ever forget or wonder about!

[chrisr24]

I had my gall bladder taken out in 95,was fine for a few years and then had problems again. Many ercps done. Got pancrantitis twice from it. Had the surgery done with the intestine thing like someone else was talking about. Am still having issues now. Nothing bad enough for me to go to the hospital, but still have pains. I wish I could find out what I can do to stop this pain forever!anyone have any advice?

[spt21012]

I never heard of this before tonight. My mom had her gallbladder removed 56 years ago and finally after suffering from severe pancreatitis over a week now and her systems shutting down they found a stone in her bile duct. The have since got it to move and they don't know if the damage is too much for her to handle at 76 years of age. She is a severe diabetic and has multiple health conditions.

[JayAitch]

I hope she was okay...

[bgillette]

I had my gallbladder out in 2013 since that time I have had many issues, including intestinal.  Are these the types of symptoms you all are having...pain usually starts on the right side under the rib cage radiating toward the sternum, up the right jaw line and into the back, sometimes feels like a heart attack?  I have had MRI's, CT's and may have to have an ERCP.  The only thing that I have found that helps the pain is Advil.

[ramapes]

I had my Gallbladder on Nov 18th, 2014, after suffering years of pain from numerous Gallbladder attacks that I though was severe back pain... over thiirty years of pain. Felt great!!! Hadn't felt that great since I was a teenager! Then about 8 moths ago... in August to be exact I started to get horrible stomach aches after I ate certain things... Then by the middle of last month I started having stomach aches about 30 minutes after I ate any meal... I finally broke down, went to the ER... they scheduled an MRI... and there it was a Stone in my bile duct... Just this past Friday, November 13th, 2015.. 5 days shy of when I had my gallbladder surgery last year, I had my first ERCP.... I knew when I went in that this may only be just the beginning...... Even the doctor I saw said that some people are just genetically predisposed to make stones...

[Solmiles]

I had my gall bladder out 10 months ago, I had one 4 cm stone the size of an egg.  I felt great until last week, when I started vomiting and having pain under my ribcage where the gall bladder used to be.  I also had painful muscle spasms there.  Going to have the endoscope thing.  It sounds like a horror.  My gallbladder was VERY infected when they got it out, I had to be on antibiotics for 2 months before the surgery.  Not looking forward to this at all.  Thanks to everyone for sharing their stories.

[Solmiles]

I had my gall bladder out 10 months ago, I had one 4 cm stone the size of an egg.  I felt great until last week, when I started vomiting and having pain under my ribcage where the gall bladder used to be.  I also had painful muscle spasms there.  Going to have the endoscope thing.  It sounds like a horror.  My gallbladder was VERY infected when they got it out, I had to be on antibiotics for 2 months before the surgery.  Not looking forward to this at all.  Thanks to everyone for sharing their stories.

[Jewels19693]

I had my gall bladder removed in 95. In 2003 I started having what's called gall bladder attacks. Only difference that I began to throw up with them. Each time going to Er. Each time being told they could not find anything. Some even told me I was making it up. So I just dealt with the pain, thinking I might be crazy...haha in 2009 after the pain not going away and throwing up for days I went back in to the er and told the doctor this is going to sound crazy but I'm having gall bladder attacks with no gall bladder. He said your not crazy I know what it is.. He went in and removed them. They came back about 5 months later. He went in again and put a stint in. Again they came back. So he went on and cut the opening up so the larger ones could past. Finally no more problems until just this past month. Again go to the er, told the Dr what it was and to plz contact the Dr . he said no need to bc that can't happen. I refused their pain meds n ask to be released. Thinking in my head ....here we go again. I was only home 2 days and had to go back. This time the Dr listen to me even tho the ct showed nothing. He admitted me called the Dr I had ask for. And ended up removing a 1.4 cm stone among other smaller ones. I think doctors and ppl having these problems should be made aware this does happen. The dr cut it open more and put me on meds to slow it down. I hope someone will find a cause and cure for this problem.. But 1st they must be made aware of it.

[Colsev]

Your post has given me hope!   I keep on getting admited with terrible pain and I can't keep food down.    Did you have jaundice?

[Dawnie1979]

I had multiple stones form in my bile duct AFTER gb removal, my bile duct was cut open during open surgery at the time of gb removal, so there was no chance the stones were left behind, i actually made more in the bile ducts, ercps to remove them were all unsuccessful, so i was given 2 choices have more surgery to cut open ducts and remove stones, BUT expect this surgery everytime i produce more stones which could be every 1-2 years !! or have a biliary bypass, i chose the biliary bypass, so now when i produce stones they pass straight in to my bowel and dont block anything.

[Dawnie1979]

I had multiple stones form in my bile duct AFTER gb removal, my bile duct was cut open during open surgery at the time of gb removal, so there was no chance the stones were left behind, i actually made more in the bile ducts, ercps to remove them were all unsuccessful, so i was given 2 choices have more surgery to cut open ducts and remove stones, BUT expect this surgery everytime i produce more stones which could be every 1-2 years !! or have a biliary bypass, i chose the biliary bypass, so now when i produce stones they pass straight in to my bowel and dont block anything.

[backpainnomore]

I've had my appendix out, my gall bladder out, and now my recurring problem is kidney stones.  I wish I hadn't been so hasty to have my gall bladder removed because before my surgery I found that I could eat whatever I wanted as long as I drank plenty of water.  I know I've flushed out kidney stones.  I've figured out that the cause of my kidney stones is high fructose corn syrup in some of my favorite foods like fig bars which I've given up.  I would not be surprised if that had something to do with my gall stones.

[craighardie]

my kidney stones stopped after I began to drink at least two liters of water each day. I am large so i try to drink three liters... after starting this in june within two weeks I passed a large stone and haven't been bothered again.  a lot of water daily helps a lot of things.

[tr22]

I'm so glad I found this post.  Last night I had what I can only describe as a gal bladder attack, even though my gal bladder was removed back in November.  I occasionally have had muscle spasms in the area where the gal bladder used to be, but this is the first time it felt like an attack.  When my gal bladder was removed, I had a 2nd emergency procedure to remove stones from the bile duct.  I wonder if they have returned.  I wasn't going to call my doctor, but now after reading about everyone else's stories, I think I will.

[Exupsgal]

I would call your doctor see if he can do an endoscopy and a possible ercp. I am having this done in the next couple of days and my doctor is going to play for stent in my bile duct which opens up the passageway to let the stones flow through now and in the future. Good luck with it I had my gallbladder out 2 and have been in severe pain at least 5 times

[doglady2]

I had my gall bladder out almost a year ago.  Since then I have had 4 or 5 attacks that feel like a gall bladder attack. Went to the ER several times, my liver enzymes were double.  Five days later normal readings, sometimes I feel like some of the medical community do not believe me and it is so frustrating. I did have an upper endoscopy  this week because of other stomach issues.  I was telling the surgeon about these attacks and he is only the second professional that believes me.  He said if they  continue he would like to do an ERCP. I do feel somewhat better knowing there are other people out there dealing with the same thing, at least now I don't feel like it is all in my head.

[orcasitas]

I took advil and then motrin for a very long time. It is probably what caused my microscopic cholitis for a variety of pain issues, so get a lot of advice before using nsaids for long periods.  My naturopath agrees that marijuana helps and has fewer side effects than long term than nsaids. I only use it before bed though as I really need to be able to function at peak levels during the day.

My gallbladder was taken out in 1984 & now 5 weeks ago, June, 2016 I have had acute pancreatitis caused by stones formed in the common bile duct with an 8 day hospital stay. The stents will be replaced or removed in a few days, depending on if they find an residual stones in the common bile duct. I had NO idea that stones could form without a gallbladder. I had gallstone symptoms for a while before I went in with the pancreatitis. This time they also did a sphincterotomy. We need every duct, organ and muscle in our bodies & they will be affected when you don't have them...even tonsils and appendix! The latter are part of your immune system. But removing or cutting is always better than to risk dying, so do your research & get the best docs you can!

[orcasitas]

I took advil and then motrin for a very long time. It is probably what caused my microscopic cholitis for a variety of pain issues. My naturopath agrees that marijuana helps and has fewer side effects than long term than usaids. I only use it before bed though as I really need to be able to function during the day.

My gallbladder was taken out in 1984 & now 5 weeks ago, June, 2016 I have had acute pancreatitis with an 8 day hospital stay. The stents will be replaced or removed in a few days, depending on if they find an residual stones in the common bile duct. I had NO idea that stones could form without a gallbladder. I had gallstone symptoms for a while before I went in with the pancreatitis. This time they also did a sphincterotomy. We need every duct, organ and muscle in our bodies & they will be affected when you don't have them...even tonsils and appendix! The latter are part of your immune system. But removing or cutting is always better than to risk dying, so do your research & get the best docs you can!