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ORAL SEX. All flavours.
It's very, very rare that I now post on these forums. But I do still from time to time have a look at what's going on. And it still seems that there is some unease amongst posters with regard to unprotected oral sex.
It seems that for the most part Teak and LizzeLou and others are stuck on some repetitive answering service regarding this subject. I'd just like to offer some insight into this in a way that is hopefully easy to understand. And hopefully they would be good enough to make comment on this post as well.
Firstly, there have been numerous studies that have monitored sero-discordant couples (both GAY and STRAIGHT) who, use condoms for penetrative intercourse, that's anal and vaginal sex, but do not use barrier methods for oral sex. These studies have shown that the all the sero-negative persons in these studies have remained just that; NEGATIVE. This proves that barrier contraception when used correctly for Anal and Vaginal sex is 100% EFFECTIVE and stopping infection. Secondly, it PROVES that oral sex is not a transmission risk for HIV infection. These studies are genuine scientific studies that have been peer reviewed. And were conducted over periods of years, not weeks or months. And were quite large in scale.
That said, if you are having or have had unprotected oral sex - either way, male or female, you ARE at risk of contracting other more COMMON and very TREATABLE STI's like; Chlamydia (the most common STI in the world), Genital herpes, Non-specific urethritis, Trichomoniasis, Genital warts, Gonorrhoea, Syphilis, etc.
There are always going to be "reports" of people who claim that they were infected with HIV solely through giving\receiving through oral sex, but please REMEMBER that not one of these cases has EVER been confirmed that oral sex alone infected them. People can tell lies, not wanting to admit that their risks were greater, or they simply can't remember. You can also look at it another way; how many episodes of unprotected oral sex, must occur across the planet. If HIV was transmitted by oral sex the numbers living with the disease and those who have died of AIDS would surely be in the billions.
Questions about having ulcers, abrasions and the like do not alter this FACT. The only way, oral would even be considered a risk for transmission would be to have serious open profusely bleeding wounds in the mouth area and have a partner who had very obvious, very large and open, profusely bleeding wounds on their genitals. And trust me on this; sex of any kind would be the very last thing on either parties minds.
All the Doctors I have personally spoken to, face to face or online have all stated that that there is for all intents and purposes no risk in HIV infection from oral sex. You will sometimes here about "Theoretical risk". Thats because every time you have sex with someone there will be a theoretical risk of catching something. To put it another way; In the UK we have a national lottery. I do it every week. There is a theoretical chance that I will win the jackpot, because I've bought a ticket. After nearly 20 years of doing the lottery I still haven't won anything. And I probably never will. Thats what "theoretical" means. In the real world it means I haven't given up my day job, because the odds are so remote they are beyond measure. It is the same with oral sex.
If you feel the need to test over an incident of oral sex. Expect a negative result. Most places I know, will test you; it's firstly a good habit to be in and secondly the NHS will provide free point of care, or a private clinic will charge you. But they will test you if you ask. It's just that they DON'T recommend testing every time you give or receive a fellatio or perform cunnilingus. Thats a FACT.
So, the bottom line of my post; DON'T lose sleep over HIV infection after unprotected oral sex. DO; get tested for the more common and more infectious STI's that YOU can catch from oral sex.
It seems that for the most part Teak and LizzeLou and others are stuck on some repetitive answering service regarding this subject. I'd just like to offer some insight into this in a way that is hopefully easy to understand. And hopefully they would be good enough to make comment on this post as well.
Firstly, there have been numerous studies that have monitored sero-discordant couples (both GAY and STRAIGHT) who, use condoms for penetrative intercourse, that's anal and vaginal sex, but do not use barrier methods for oral sex. These studies have shown that the all the sero-negative persons in these studies have remained just that; NEGATIVE. This proves that barrier contraception when used correctly for Anal and Vaginal sex is 100% EFFECTIVE and stopping infection. Secondly, it PROVES that oral sex is not a transmission risk for HIV infection. These studies are genuine scientific studies that have been peer reviewed. And were conducted over periods of years, not weeks or months. And were quite large in scale.
That said, if you are having or have had unprotected oral sex - either way, male or female, you ARE at risk of contracting other more COMMON and very TREATABLE STI's like; Chlamydia (the most common STI in the world), Genital herpes, Non-specific urethritis, Trichomoniasis, Genital warts, Gonorrhoea, Syphilis, etc.
There are always going to be "reports" of people who claim that they were infected with HIV solely through giving\receiving through oral sex, but please REMEMBER that not one of these cases has EVER been confirmed that oral sex alone infected them. People can tell lies, not wanting to admit that their risks were greater, or they simply can't remember. You can also look at it another way; how many episodes of unprotected oral sex, must occur across the planet. If HIV was transmitted by oral sex the numbers living with the disease and those who have died of AIDS would surely be in the billions.
Questions about having ulcers, abrasions and the like do not alter this FACT. The only way, oral would even be considered a risk for transmission would be to have serious open profusely bleeding wounds in the mouth area and have a partner who had very obvious, very large and open, profusely bleeding wounds on their genitals. And trust me on this; sex of any kind would be the very last thing on either parties minds.
All the Doctors I have personally spoken to, face to face or online have all stated that that there is for all intents and purposes no risk in HIV infection from oral sex. You will sometimes here about "Theoretical risk". Thats because every time you have sex with someone there will be a theoretical risk of catching something. To put it another way; In the UK we have a national lottery. I do it every week. There is a theoretical chance that I will win the jackpot, because I've bought a ticket. After nearly 20 years of doing the lottery I still haven't won anything. And I probably never will. Thats what "theoretical" means. In the real world it means I haven't given up my day job, because the odds are so remote they are beyond measure. It is the same with oral sex.
If you feel the need to test over an incident of oral sex. Expect a negative result. Most places I know, will test you; it's firstly a good habit to be in and secondly the NHS will provide free point of care, or a private clinic will charge you. But they will test you if you ask. It's just that they DON'T recommend testing every time you give or receive a fellatio or perform cunnilingus. Thats a FACT.
So, the bottom line of my post; DON'T lose sleep over HIV infection after unprotected oral sex. DO; get tested for the more common and more infectious STI's that YOU can catch from oral sex.
Yes i know. Easier said than done. I go through phases like one week ill feel like good about it, and the next week ill feel anxious that i have HIV. Its surely the common anxiety that millions of people have regarding HIV. Im 16 and i have a girlfriend that wants to be sexually active (oral, protected vaginal) and im kind of avoiding it in fear of giving her my supposed HIV. I was supposed to go get my 6 month test in may (according to planned parenthood) but skipped it thinking 12 weeks was enough. Ahh ill stop crying about it to you guys now =]
No, it's not "pathetic"..it is anxiety...and you and everyone esle in this forum going thru something similar have a choice to make...when to stop the madness and believe. And, address the anxiety..which is what is likely making 99.999999999% of you ill.
EXCELLENT conversation guys. I hope everybody reads this before posting about an oral exposure (although they would probably still post). I'm still worrying about receiving oral, and performing cunnilingus EVEN WITH a 12 week negative. Its pathetic :\
Your friend is totally clueless....and I have to second the request to refrain from posting such utter garbarge. We've set you straight, so there will be no further discussion about it. Tell your friend to get some education.
BS that isn't true at all. You post anymore of that BS and you'll be removed from the forum.
That information was totally incorrect. Anyone that is infected with HIV are contagious to others.
"As well, my friend says HIV infection is two types. One active and other inactive. He says the inactive HIV infection cannot be tested by antibodies measurement. Or he says not all HIV infection develops antibodies in blood. So the doctors dont tell the patients that dont develop antibodies, that they are infact infected because such infections take longer time to become AIDS and hence they might(or not) live 10-20 years even before they know they are infected. They end up living their whole life with infection. But since their level of infection is not contagious to others, the fact is permanently hidden from them."
I think this is totally incorrect!
I think this is totally incorrect!
Tidyman,
There is no risk from cunnilingus, except for other STI's. I would be mindful of being told that. Simply put; that one single episode of cunnilingus could have been proceeded by unprotected vaginal sex, or it could have been the result of another sexual encounter. Unless you were actually there you can't say with any degree of certainty that this was the case.
as an example, I once called the National Aids Trust and asked about an exposure (I was sexually assaulted a few years ago. Event hough it was just oral). I was told that no test could be 100% accurate until about 10 months and possibly 2 years. I then went to a private clinic that specialises in mens sexual health and they laughed and that statement. You see that even with the best of intentions people sometimes are not in possession of the full or latest facts and often rely on data thats out of date and has been proved to be incorrect.
There is no risk from cunnilingus, except for other STI's. I would be mindful of being told that. Simply put; that one single episode of cunnilingus could have been proceeded by unprotected vaginal sex, or it could have been the result of another sexual encounter. Unless you were actually there you can't say with any degree of certainty that this was the case.
as an example, I once called the National Aids Trust and asked about an exposure (I was sexually assaulted a few years ago. Event hough it was just oral). I was told that no test could be 100% accurate until about 10 months and possibly 2 years. I then went to a private clinic that specialises in mens sexual health and they laughed and that statement. You see that even with the best of intentions people sometimes are not in possession of the full or latest facts and often rely on data thats out of date and has been proved to be incorrect.
Does a brief, seconds of oral, no exposure to ejaculate count then as a no-risk? Thanks for your information....
thanks rob teak and lizzy lou said the same but it was the terrence higgins trust who you will know well from the uk that told me when i rang them as i was concerned about my exposure that there have been 2 documented cases of transmission from cunilingus and i had a risk why do they state this ! by the way they confirmed that receiving a ** was risk free for hiv
* Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to action by MedHelp. Conclusive negative results or a no-risk situation will be based up the criteria MedHelp’s doctors. Action will be taken as follows:
* After excessive posting, a warning will be issued by MedHelp
* Continuing to post regarding the negative result / no risk situation will result in a 3 day suspension
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Enough already.
* After excessive posting, a warning will be issued by MedHelp
* Continuing to post regarding the negative result / no risk situation will result in a 3 day suspension
* Continuing to post upon your return will result in a permanent ban.
Enough already.
I think you would have to ask the CDC. But as teak has said, although they were involved with these studies, they are also funded by the US Government, so they will be at the mercy of a political agenda as well as a scientific one. And again, teak is correct to say that they do not update their website very often.
Tidyman, no risk whatsoever from cunnilingus.
Tidyman, no risk whatsoever from cunnilingus.
That is why those of us that teach about HIV are always keeping up to date on all scientific studies and data that is provided.
i ask about the swallowing of vaginal fluids because i read somewhere that your tonsills can be infected by hiv is this an issue
You are talking about two separate issues. The window period is agreed upon to make sure that all those who have had an exposure are given sufficient time to develop antibodies. As I've mentioned earlier, some people have multiple partners, often in a anonymous setting for them it's harder to precisely gauge their window period.
The fact remains that oral sex ISN'T a risk for HIV transmission.
The fact remains that oral sex ISN'T a risk for HIV transmission.
1. The CDC doesn't keep their websites up to date
2. The CDC is a government agency
3. Studies of serodiscordant couples have shown that HIV is not transmitted by oral sex and yes the CDC was involved in that study.
2. The CDC is a government agency
3. Studies of serodiscordant couples have shown that HIV is not transmitted by oral sex and yes the CDC was involved in that study.
Thanks for that LizzieLou, I should use the proper terminology. I hope though it came across in the correct way.
As for the statistical odds - well they have to attach a number to highlight how difficult it is to transmit. Also, you have to take into consideration just how conservative the CDC is. As a non US resident I don't feel it is my place to either promote or criticise what information they choose to produce and make available.
What I will say, however, is that every Dr I have spoken to has agreed that HIV transmission is unlikely and ultimately so rare as to be beyond the ability of science to measure, if in fact it happens at all. And remember the long term studies that have proved that Oral transmission doesn't occur.
As for the statistical odds - well they have to attach a number to highlight how difficult it is to transmit. Also, you have to take into consideration just how conservative the CDC is. As a non US resident I don't feel it is my place to either promote or criticise what information they choose to produce and make available.
What I will say, however, is that every Dr I have spoken to has agreed that HIV transmission is unlikely and ultimately so rare as to be beyond the ability of science to measure, if in fact it happens at all. And remember the long term studies that have proved that Oral transmission doesn't occur.
Here is how HIV is transmitted:
Unprotect anal or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child.
Unprotect anal or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child.
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