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ORAL SEX. All flavours.
It's very, very rare that I now post on these forums. But I do still from time to time have a look at what's going on. And it still seems that there is some unease amongst posters with regard to unprotected oral sex.
It seems that for the most part Teak and LizzeLou and others are stuck on some repetitive answering service regarding this subject. I'd just like to offer some insight into this in a way that is hopefully easy to understand. And hopefully they would be good enough to make comment on this post as well.
Firstly, there have been numerous studies that have monitored sero-discordant couples (both GAY and STRAIGHT) who, use condoms for penetrative intercourse, that's anal and vaginal sex, but do not use barrier methods for oral sex. These studies have shown that the all the sero-negative persons in these studies have remained just that; NEGATIVE. This proves that barrier contraception when used correctly for Anal and Vaginal sex is 100% EFFECTIVE and stopping infection. Secondly, it PROVES that oral sex is not a transmission risk for HIV infection. These studies are genuine scientific studies that have been peer reviewed. And were conducted over periods of years, not weeks or months. And were quite large in scale.
That said, if you are having or have had unprotected oral sex - either way, male or female, you ARE at risk of contracting other more COMMON and very TREATABLE STI's like; Chlamydia (the most common STI in the world), Genital herpes, Non-specific urethritis, Trichomoniasis, Genital warts, Gonorrhoea, Syphilis, etc.
There are always going to be "reports" of people who claim that they were infected with HIV solely through giving\receiving through oral sex, but please REMEMBER that not one of these cases has EVER been confirmed that oral sex alone infected them. People can tell lies, not wanting to admit that their risks were greater, or they simply can't remember. You can also look at it another way; how many episodes of unprotected oral sex, must occur across the planet. If HIV was transmitted by oral sex the numbers living with the disease and those who have died of AIDS would surely be in the billions.
Questions about having ulcers, abrasions and the like do not alter this FACT. The only way, oral would even be considered a risk for transmission would be to have serious open profusely bleeding wounds in the mouth area and have a partner who had very obvious, very large and open, profusely bleeding wounds on their genitals. And trust me on this; sex of any kind would be the very last thing on either parties minds.
All the Doctors I have personally spoken to, face to face or online have all stated that that there is for all intents and purposes no risk in HIV infection from oral sex. You will sometimes here about "Theoretical risk". Thats because every time you have sex with someone there will be a theoretical risk of catching something. To put it another way; In the UK we have a national lottery. I do it every week. There is a theoretical chance that I will win the jackpot, because I've bought a ticket. After nearly 20 years of doing the lottery I still haven't won anything. And I probably never will. Thats what "theoretical" means. In the real world it means I haven't given up my day job, because the odds are so remote they are beyond measure. It is the same with oral sex.
If you feel the need to test over an incident of oral sex. Expect a negative result. Most places I know, will test you; it's firstly a good habit to be in and secondly the NHS will provide free point of care, or a private clinic will charge you. But they will test you if you ask. It's just that they DON'T recommend testing every time you give or receive a fellatio or perform cunnilingus. Thats a FACT.
So, the bottom line of my post; DON'T lose sleep over HIV infection after unprotected oral sex. DO; get tested for the more common and more infectious STI's that YOU can catch from oral sex.
It seems that for the most part Teak and LizzeLou and others are stuck on some repetitive answering service regarding this subject. I'd just like to offer some insight into this in a way that is hopefully easy to understand. And hopefully they would be good enough to make comment on this post as well.
Firstly, there have been numerous studies that have monitored sero-discordant couples (both GAY and STRAIGHT) who, use condoms for penetrative intercourse, that's anal and vaginal sex, but do not use barrier methods for oral sex. These studies have shown that the all the sero-negative persons in these studies have remained just that; NEGATIVE. This proves that barrier contraception when used correctly for Anal and Vaginal sex is 100% EFFECTIVE and stopping infection. Secondly, it PROVES that oral sex is not a transmission risk for HIV infection. These studies are genuine scientific studies that have been peer reviewed. And were conducted over periods of years, not weeks or months. And were quite large in scale.
That said, if you are having or have had unprotected oral sex - either way, male or female, you ARE at risk of contracting other more COMMON and very TREATABLE STI's like; Chlamydia (the most common STI in the world), Genital herpes, Non-specific urethritis, Trichomoniasis, Genital warts, Gonorrhoea, Syphilis, etc.
There are always going to be "reports" of people who claim that they were infected with HIV solely through giving\receiving through oral sex, but please REMEMBER that not one of these cases has EVER been confirmed that oral sex alone infected them. People can tell lies, not wanting to admit that their risks were greater, or they simply can't remember. You can also look at it another way; how many episodes of unprotected oral sex, must occur across the planet. If HIV was transmitted by oral sex the numbers living with the disease and those who have died of AIDS would surely be in the billions.
Questions about having ulcers, abrasions and the like do not alter this FACT. The only way, oral would even be considered a risk for transmission would be to have serious open profusely bleeding wounds in the mouth area and have a partner who had very obvious, very large and open, profusely bleeding wounds on their genitals. And trust me on this; sex of any kind would be the very last thing on either parties minds.
All the Doctors I have personally spoken to, face to face or online have all stated that that there is for all intents and purposes no risk in HIV infection from oral sex. You will sometimes here about "Theoretical risk". Thats because every time you have sex with someone there will be a theoretical risk of catching something. To put it another way; In the UK we have a national lottery. I do it every week. There is a theoretical chance that I will win the jackpot, because I've bought a ticket. After nearly 20 years of doing the lottery I still haven't won anything. And I probably never will. Thats what "theoretical" means. In the real world it means I haven't given up my day job, because the odds are so remote they are beyond measure. It is the same with oral sex.
If you feel the need to test over an incident of oral sex. Expect a negative result. Most places I know, will test you; it's firstly a good habit to be in and secondly the NHS will provide free point of care, or a private clinic will charge you. But they will test you if you ask. It's just that they DON'T recommend testing every time you give or receive a fellatio or perform cunnilingus. Thats a FACT.
So, the bottom line of my post; DON'T lose sleep over HIV infection after unprotected oral sex. DO; get tested for the more common and more infectious STI's that YOU can catch from oral sex.
Thank you for such a good article. Can you also explain why some wounds in the mouth or on genitals won't cause a risk? Sperm can contact these open wounds, sperm can be swallowed by the receptive party etc and these are the main scenarios of the worried posters on this forum.
There are different proteins and enzymes in saliva that will inhibit the transfer of HIV, whether it is present of pre-ejaculate or actual ejaculate. Also those same proteins and enzymes are effective in healing the tiny, tiny cuts in the mouth you can get from brushing etc. Though most Doctors will advise that you don't swallow.
So you mean these proteins in the mouth which avoid the transmission are not present in esophagus and stomach or the rest of the gastrointestinal tract?
I'm not sure to be honest. I think these proteins and enzymes are found in saliva not in or on the lining of the oesophagus or lower gastrointestinal tract. So I would hazard a guess that swallowing might be slightly more risky than spitting, but that risk is essentially nil anyway.
That said I still stand by my original post.
That said I still stand by my original post.
Thank you. I know exactly how had it can be to deal with HIV anxiety. In truth most people who have posted to this forum haven't had a big risk, but are in fact unsure of HIV transmission.
I hope my post will help.
I hope my post will help.
we have stated these facts til we're blue in the face...long and short version.
trouble is...ppl will read your essay but will not actually listen.
trouble is...ppl will read your essay but will not actually listen.
I know. I think the problem lies in everyone thinking they "will be the one" despite, what they are told.
As you say; a penis is a penis, a mouth is a mouth.............etc, etc.
As you say; a penis is a penis, a mouth is a mouth.............etc, etc.
Give me a break if HIV doesn't transmit in environment then stomach acids wouldn't begin to give it a chance.
Well for start the mouth, unlike the anus or vagina is a more robust environment, where the mucosal membranes are far stronger and less prone to tear. Also saliva has effective proteins and enzymes that inhibit and breakdown HIV. This would apply to HIV in semen and pre-ejaculate. So whatever you had in your mouth would be rendered inert.
As for HIV int he stomach, the acids used to digest food would certainly kill the virus. Personally I would advise a person not to swallow, regardless of the risk.
As for HIV int he stomach, the acids used to digest food would certainly kill the virus. Personally I would advise a person not to swallow, regardless of the risk.
Yes, vomiting 20 minutes after swallowing semen the virus (if it were present in the first place) would indeed be dead.
Thank you. But a lot of this is common sense. Think about it; Oral sex is one of the most common expressions of human sexuality. There must be billions of people across the globe who have had oral sex today. It stands to reason that if HIV was transmitted this way the numbers with the disease would be measured in the billions.
does that count for swallowing vaginal fluids as well ie not recommended or is it just for semen as vaginal fluids seem to have less hiv ........... great discusion by the way
Here is how HIV is transmitted:
Unprotect anal or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child.
Unprotect anal or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child.
Thanks for that LizzieLou, I should use the proper terminology. I hope though it came across in the correct way.
As for the statistical odds - well they have to attach a number to highlight how difficult it is to transmit. Also, you have to take into consideration just how conservative the CDC is. As a non US resident I don't feel it is my place to either promote or criticise what information they choose to produce and make available.
What I will say, however, is that every Dr I have spoken to has agreed that HIV transmission is unlikely and ultimately so rare as to be beyond the ability of science to measure, if in fact it happens at all. And remember the long term studies that have proved that Oral transmission doesn't occur.
As for the statistical odds - well they have to attach a number to highlight how difficult it is to transmit. Also, you have to take into consideration just how conservative the CDC is. As a non US resident I don't feel it is my place to either promote or criticise what information they choose to produce and make available.
What I will say, however, is that every Dr I have spoken to has agreed that HIV transmission is unlikely and ultimately so rare as to be beyond the ability of science to measure, if in fact it happens at all. And remember the long term studies that have proved that Oral transmission doesn't occur.
1. The CDC doesn't keep their websites up to date
2. The CDC is a government agency
3. Studies of serodiscordant couples have shown that HIV is not transmitted by oral sex and yes the CDC was involved in that study.
2. The CDC is a government agency
3. Studies of serodiscordant couples have shown that HIV is not transmitted by oral sex and yes the CDC was involved in that study.
You are talking about two separate issues. The window period is agreed upon to make sure that all those who have had an exposure are given sufficient time to develop antibodies. As I've mentioned earlier, some people have multiple partners, often in a anonymous setting for them it's harder to precisely gauge their window period.
The fact remains that oral sex ISN'T a risk for HIV transmission.
The fact remains that oral sex ISN'T a risk for HIV transmission.
i ask about the swallowing of vaginal fluids because i read somewhere that your tonsills can be infected by hiv is this an issue
That is why those of us that teach about HIV are always keeping up to date on all scientific studies and data that is provided.
I think you would have to ask the CDC. But as teak has said, although they were involved with these studies, they are also funded by the US Government, so they will be at the mercy of a political agenda as well as a scientific one. And again, teak is correct to say that they do not update their website very often.
Tidyman, no risk whatsoever from cunnilingus.
Tidyman, no risk whatsoever from cunnilingus.
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* After excessive posting, a warning will be issued by MedHelp
* Continuing to post regarding the negative result / no risk situation will result in a 3 day suspension
* Continuing to post upon your return will result in a permanent ban.
Enough already.
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