wireless connections

[kim62]

Is there anyone out there that has an ICD...that has experienced an irregular rhythm while using a computer or laptop that is connected via wireless router?  

[badgerCC]

Yes, I have the same thing happening. About 2 hours after using my laptop on wireless, I start feeling a little funny and get occasional offbeats. After about 3-5 hours, I have started to have circulation anomalies. I have diagnosed ARVC in advanced stage with 5 VF shocks so far and 5 VT shocks in about 2 years, all of them valid.  The laptop seems to have a delayed magnetic effect of some sort, my device is St Jude single lead.  You have a good idea, I will bring it to my next ICD check and see if they can duplicate a laptop effect, thanks for bringing it up.

[itdood]

Good to hear you are getting it checked out. The laptop did not produce the problem in a different house, that's strange as I wouldn't expect this. I've been thinking the source would be the laptop.   Also, the low strength doesn't necessarily mean less energy, some wireless cards will increase their wattage as the signal goes down in an attempt to maintain the quality.    It all sorta points to your WAP at home (the wireless router).

[kim62]

I have put myself on a restriction as to where I can use the laptop in my home. The second floor of the house is where the connection/strength is "low". and I have very little problems. I am scheduled on Jan 12th with Medtronics and my cardiologist to have my ICD interogated and to go over this issue. It will be very interesting as to what they have to say!

[kevk]

I agree with itdood, You need to have your device interrogated ASAP.  The interrogation should be able to tell you what problem you are having. If I were you I would turn off the router if you can till you get some answers. maybe have your router checked to see if it is working correctly.
Ask your EP if your device has an alarm to warn you from outside interference. My alarm is very hard to hear if there is any noise such as TV,radio, ect. When you have your interrogation ask them to sound the alarm for you.

[itdood]

Hi Kim, you should have your cardiologist interrogate your ICD to see what data is in there, why it thought it needed to fire.  Is that standard procedure any time it fires?

[kim62]

Just have to share this with you...I have made 2 calls to Medtronics regarding my issues with the "wireless" router. A few weeks ago I was in front of my laptop sitting about 5 feet from the router...and once again things started acting up within a few minutes. This time, instead of backing off of it, I stayed put and yep... the ICD fired!  What a tough price to pay to prove a point!  I then, a week later went on vacation and took my laptop with me. We used a wireless connection(several times and up to 2 hours at a time) from a neighbors house and guess what... nothing happened.. not one symptom! I came back home and when I used my laptop... things started again. On last Saturday, I needed to use my desktop which I haven't been able to use due to the wireless router hooked to it, so my husband turned off the router and I sat for 3 hours without a problem. Later I wanted to use my laptop, so I reached down and turned the router back on as I did this I noticed I hadn't closed a couple programs on the desktop...before I could get them closed down, the heartrate started going crazy. My 2nd call to Medtronics was last night... and like I guessed.. they don't believe this is a problem!

[BobRBob]

Well, then it has to be the wireless radio frequencies that are messing with your ICD. Can you switch to a wired network at home? That would eliminate the radio frequencies that are affecting your ICD. I'm curious as to what the manufacturer has to say about this as it seems very strange that the device would not be properly shielded from such low energy rf.

[kim62]

Yes.. I have turned off the wireless connection on my laptop and have no problems! Actually, I work on a computer all day long (10 hours per day)that has no wireless connection and have no problem. My wireless router at home is on the desktop. If I sit in front of the desktop, it is much worse effect than that of the laptop. Hubby turned off the wireless router and no problems. It appears that the farther away from the router I am, the less effect it has.

[BobRBob]

Kim, have you tried disabling the wireless on your laptop to see if that is what is causing the problem? This is easy to do and would narrow it down a bit as to the cause.

[Mom2four85]

I checked this on my other forum and others have similar experiences and some said no way how can that happen? so yeah others notice with their laptops too.

that will be interesting to know the results of your interrogation with your laptop

[itdood]

Thanks for the follow-up Kim, let us know how things go on your next visit!

[kim62]

I have contacted Medtronics and they agree there is a "connection". They suggested that I take my laptop to my next ICD interrogation and have me do some work on my laptop while they watch on the Interrogation) Monitor. I think I have pretty much proven to myself that I am right. I haven't used my desk top that has the wireless router connected in the last 7 months...but sat down to it a couple weeks ago and within minutes the HR was so crazy that it felt like the ICD was pacing. I walked away... and it calmed down.. waited a little bit, sat down and it all started again. Thanks for all the info!

[Mom2four85]

Yeah you dont have to tell me about being "different"; ever hear of 54,181 pvc's ? lol most people haven't and none of the doctors I've been to or written; have ever heard of this amount.  They're were amazed I was sitting up and had never been to the ER because of them and I said the same thing it's because I'm different :)

I would definitely call Medtronics, I can't believe your dr didn't do that - I would be too scared of having my icd messed with or functions turned off.  Your leads were ok and not loose or anything?

I bet it's frustrating and I hope you find answers.

[BobRBob]

Now, this is interesting. Are you saying that you experience your arrhythmia ONLY when you are using your laptop? If that's the case, then you have at least identified the cause of your problem and the solution would seem to be pretty simple. If sitting in the same position without your laptop does not cause you any problem, then the computer is the culprit. It may not be the wireless though. Could be some other spurious signals emanating from the computer. It's easy to turn off the wireless so you should try that first. If you still have a problem then try someone else's laptop to see if you still have the problem. If not, then replace your laptop. This sounds pretty strange but I'd go with it if there was a clear cause and effect between your computer and your arrhythmia.

[itdood]

Hi Kim, to further test your theory you can turn off the internal wireless card in the lappy.  Do you know how to do that?

YOu can switch it off from the BIOS or you might be able to from the wireless management app when it's booted up.  

I think it's worth a call to whoever might be able to walk you through disabling the card (power it down), then further check into your experiment.

Do you know anyone who works on phone systems?  There's a tool called a "tone trace" that will actually let you hear the EMI, it converts EMI into sound.  So you can wave it around your laptop and hear the EMI hot spots and if they get near your ICD.  Here's one on Amazon.  Copy and paste into your link bar.

http://www.amazon.com/TEST-UM-TT100-High-Sensitivity-Tone-Tracer/dp/B0009INZC8

[kim62]

I understand what you are saying. I have had 4 ablations for a complex VT, as well as the ICD. The ICD was implanted after the second ablation.I searched for a second opinion as my VT was just getting worse. I found a new cardiologist/EP over 700 miles from home, who is considered one of the best in the country and have since had 2 more ablations. The only problems I was having after the last ablation, was vibrations such as driving on bumpy roads, or bouncing down stairs.. my HR would change and I would get a flip-flopping feeling in my chest...as well as when I am sitting and using my laptop. I assumed this laptop issue was "Positional". Per my Ep, they have labeled my arrhythmia as "Unable to Classify" as there is nothing left to ablate..and there is nothing wrong with my electrolytes, thyroid levels or hormone levels and they have no idea what is triggering the VT.  As a trial to narrow down the "WHY" in this... my EP has had all features of my ICD turned off except for monitor and VF therapy. There is no pacing on...so I am basically, on my own! The odd beats with the vibrations, bumpy roads, etc are all gone... BUT...within minutes of being in front of my laptop...it all starts in!  I have been trying to keep it at arms length away.. which seems to help! The reason I feel it is the wirelss connection.. is because I sit all day long in front of a computer  and nothing happens... but in front of my laptop... it does!. Maybe a call to Medtronics is in order. I wasn't surprised to hear that nobody else has heard of this.. as I have this issue with always being "different"! Thanks for the input!

[itdood]

Try googling this, there's abundant anecdotal feedback and I also found several studies done.  These are so safe and so well designed that the only time a followed subject had an issue was at an industrial job who got too close to a large magnet powered by 32,000 volts.


Others had reported issues but when the ICD data was analyzed, the ICD was pacing or firing for legitimate reasons, meaning it was doing it's proper job.

[Mom2four85]

We have a home office that I work in daily, and I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary for me with my ICD, but I'm extremely careful that nothing gets within 6 inches of my left side.

But I did have a weird experience...we were at Target the week after I got mine implanted.  I was so tired by the time we got to checkout, I plopped my arm up on the counter; my heart started racing & going crazy [with no converting] - so there must be something with the registers or their computers they use for them.

[BobRBob]

Jerry, I agree with your analysis although I assume the ICD has an embedded processor and associated electronics which could conceivably be affected by EMI. That said, I'm sure the devices are designed with this in mind and are highly immune to it.

[kevk]

I have been around the wireless stuff and never had any problem, But I do make sure I keep everything six inches or further from my device.  To be on the safe side you can call the manufacturer of your device and see what they have to say.
I have never noticed any more arrhthymias than normal while using any of those devices.

[Jerry_NJ]

I have never seen a post suggesting a problem with ICD/Computer and Wireless.  

I believe the ICD is all low frequency "stuff",  That is it is measuring electrical signals that are in the beat or two per second, while wireless is broadcasting in the hundreds of megahertz (or higher, I haven't read what the spectrum is lately - all the new cell phones operate in the gigahertz range).

ElectroMagnetic interference (EMI) is stringently controlled in computers, and it also operates at high frequencies, high clock rates.  Doubt it could interact with an ICD.

Just my guess, figured I pitch in as no one else has.