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HSV Antibodies-Are they Undetectable Over Time?
Hi all! New to the community, but have a few questions about herpes antibodies-do they really fall to undetectable levels over a period of time?
I've been doing a lot of research to try and better understanding this disease, after recently having a family member struggle to come to terms with a recent diagnosis that he was in the dark about for several years. In my web surfing, I've come across a disclaimer that indicates that, antibodies may fall to undetectable levels over a period of time. It reads: "A negative serological test does not exclude the possibility of past infection. Following primary HSV infection, antibody may fall to undetectable levels and then be boosted by later clinical infection with the same or heterologous type".
This certainly seems contradictory to the many arguments that, if a person tests anywhere from 12-16 weeks post exposure (and even 6 months in extreme cases), the current igg blood tests on the market are excellent at detecting antibodies to either strain of the virus, regardless of the presence or absence of symptoms; though these current blood tests (Herpes Select, ELISA and or Immunoblot) may miss 1 in 10 HSV infections.
My question is, if it's true that antibodies may fall to undetectable levels over time, would this then mean, that, in the presence of an active outbreak, these levels may return detected? I can imagine that this would cause a great deal of distress to a person who may have tested negative previously, without any known symptoms, who again retests at a later time; perhaps when symptoms are present, and the antibodies are present. I though that the antibodies would remain in the blood, regardless of symptoms being present or absent. Any input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!!
I've been doing a lot of research to try and better understanding this disease, after recently having a family member struggle to come to terms with a recent diagnosis that he was in the dark about for several years. In my web surfing, I've come across a disclaimer that indicates that, antibodies may fall to undetectable levels over a period of time. It reads: "A negative serological test does not exclude the possibility of past infection. Following primary HSV infection, antibody may fall to undetectable levels and then be boosted by later clinical infection with the same or heterologous type".
This certainly seems contradictory to the many arguments that, if a person tests anywhere from 12-16 weeks post exposure (and even 6 months in extreme cases), the current igg blood tests on the market are excellent at detecting antibodies to either strain of the virus, regardless of the presence or absence of symptoms; though these current blood tests (Herpes Select, ELISA and or Immunoblot) may miss 1 in 10 HSV infections.
My question is, if it's true that antibodies may fall to undetectable levels over time, would this then mean, that, in the presence of an active outbreak, these levels may return detected? I can imagine that this would cause a great deal of distress to a person who may have tested negative previously, without any known symptoms, who again retests at a later time; perhaps when symptoms are present, and the antibodies are present. I though that the antibodies would remain in the blood, regardless of symptoms being present or absent. Any input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!!
I don't know what qualifications Fleetwood20 has but I fear he is spreading bad information.
It is highly likely a majority of people with HSV have never been properly diagnosed for starters.
It is almost certain that 99+ percent of people infected with HSV have never been involved in any type of scientific/clinical study.
So anybody in the scientific or medical community trying to give definitive answers to this question is almost laughable.
Scientists and medical professionals are typically arrogant AF. They think they know everything when they often know very little. Even what they think they know can often turn out to be wrong once research catches up and provides contradictory evidence.
I believe the anecdotal examples given by the other contributors here. And I believe they are probably far more common than people in the medical or scientific community are aware of or will ever admit to.
It is highly likely a majority of people with HSV have never been properly diagnosed for starters.
It is almost certain that 99+ percent of people infected with HSV have never been involved in any type of scientific/clinical study.
So anybody in the scientific or medical community trying to give definitive answers to this question is almost laughable.
Scientists and medical professionals are typically arrogant AF. They think they know everything when they often know very little. Even what they think they know can often turn out to be wrong once research catches up and provides contradictory evidence.
I believe the anecdotal examples given by the other contributors here. And I believe they are probably far more common than people in the medical or scientific community are aware of or will ever admit to.
1 Comments
Keeping in mind that when Fleetwood was answering questions in this very dated thread, we didn't know a lot that we do know about blood testing, but is there something specific you take issue with?
No one on this forum is a medical professional. We are all either living with herpes or have a personal interest in it, for some reason.
No one on this forum is a medical professional. We are all either living with herpes or have a personal interest in it, for some reason.
Yes. It has merely fell below .92% of antibodies in your blood. Same thing happened to me after 3 years of acyclovir.
Please post this interesting question in your own post and we'll be able to address exactly your concerns and issues rather than through a blended thread.
I tested positive with an IGG type 1 of 1.48 and an IGG type 2 of 5.38 after an initial genital outbreak a year and a half ago. I have been on valtrex once daily ever since. I retested 4 weeks ago and everything was negative (undetected antibodies). I stopped valtrex and retested 2 weeks later. Test still came back negative. I'm confused. Do I have herpes or not? I only had that initial outbreak.
I've had a positive igg of 5.38 a year and a half ago. Have been on valtrex once a day since. Recently tested negative on Igg. Stopped taking valtrex for two weeks and retested. Still negative. Do I have herpes or not?
There are a number of explanations for what you have observed.
First though is the test you have just had. Was it an IgG antibody test and what were the results? Any other test such as IgM and PCR on blood is not the correct test and does not give conclusive results.
It is not likely the swab is wrong. But there can be issues with lab contamination and error, however what you describe makes it likely you were infected.
Was this original swab ever properly typed? I'd suggest that it probably wasn't. A possibility then is that you have HSV1, which is missed in about 1 in 10 tests. I feel this is a distinct possibility as you describe no outbreaks after the first 3 months. This is pretty typical of HSV1. Of course the acyclovir is playing a role here.
The fact that your partner hasn't contracted the virus may also suggest HSV1. This is because it sheds only a few days a year in most people. It is also somewhat likely your partner has HSV1 already such that another infection is improbable.
Confirm that you have had the correct IgG testing first. From there you may consider a Westernblot to determine what type you do have.
First though is the test you have just had. Was it an IgG antibody test and what were the results? Any other test such as IgM and PCR on blood is not the correct test and does not give conclusive results.
It is not likely the swab is wrong. But there can be issues with lab contamination and error, however what you describe makes it likely you were infected.
Was this original swab ever properly typed? I'd suggest that it probably wasn't. A possibility then is that you have HSV1, which is missed in about 1 in 10 tests. I feel this is a distinct possibility as you describe no outbreaks after the first 3 months. This is pretty typical of HSV1. Of course the acyclovir is playing a role here.
The fact that your partner hasn't contracted the virus may also suggest HSV1. This is because it sheds only a few days a year in most people. It is also somewhat likely your partner has HSV1 already such that another infection is improbable.
Confirm that you have had the correct IgG testing first. From there you may consider a Westernblot to determine what type you do have.
Hi All
I came across this post after numerous searches for exactly this senario! I was diagnosed with genetal herpes 14 years ago with a swab test after having 3 outbreaks in the first 2 months following infection. I was prescribed acyclovir 400mg twice a day for the rest of my life. After a year of no outbreaks I got brave and self reduced the dose to 400mg once a day and have been on that ever since. It has been 14 years now and I have never had an outbreak apart from those first 3.
I have recently had cause to do a full blood screening and noticed the HSV test was also on the list of tests requested by my new doctor. I didn't mention that there would be no point in doing that test as I already know it would show positive, or so I assumed. Well, you can not believe how stunned I was to see it come back negative! Of course I assumed that the blood test must be wrong, or more excitingly, the original swab diagnosis was wrong.
My records were checked and I was assured there was just no way the original diagnoses was wrong. However, the doctor and all his colleagues at the med centre were equally convinced the blood test couldn't be wrong either. They had me do another blood test, with the same negative result.
When I dared mention the possibility of 14 years on a low dose of acyclovir might be a cure, they of course laughed me down, even though they had no knowledge of anyone being on acyclovir that long, nor had any other explanation.
This all happened a month ago and my doctor just called yesterday to tell me that after "extensive research" (ha! I found this post after an hour on Google!) he could confirm that after a long period of time with no outbreaks, HSV antibodies do in fact fall to levels undetectable in the blood. How long, no one seems to know. I can only say in my case it was 14 years.
There is very little research, if any at all, about the effects of long term doses of acyclovir. So, if it is of any use to anyone, I can allay one fear (that I always had) about passing the virus on. Being on a permanent dose of Acyclovir not only stops outbreaks, it also stops asymptomatic shedding of the virus (being occasionaly infectious even though you have no symptoms). I know this because my partner of the last 13 years has never become infected.
I came across this post after numerous searches for exactly this senario! I was diagnosed with genetal herpes 14 years ago with a swab test after having 3 outbreaks in the first 2 months following infection. I was prescribed acyclovir 400mg twice a day for the rest of my life. After a year of no outbreaks I got brave and self reduced the dose to 400mg once a day and have been on that ever since. It has been 14 years now and I have never had an outbreak apart from those first 3.
I have recently had cause to do a full blood screening and noticed the HSV test was also on the list of tests requested by my new doctor. I didn't mention that there would be no point in doing that test as I already know it would show positive, or so I assumed. Well, you can not believe how stunned I was to see it come back negative! Of course I assumed that the blood test must be wrong, or more excitingly, the original swab diagnosis was wrong.
My records were checked and I was assured there was just no way the original diagnoses was wrong. However, the doctor and all his colleagues at the med centre were equally convinced the blood test couldn't be wrong either. They had me do another blood test, with the same negative result.
When I dared mention the possibility of 14 years on a low dose of acyclovir might be a cure, they of course laughed me down, even though they had no knowledge of anyone being on acyclovir that long, nor had any other explanation.
This all happened a month ago and my doctor just called yesterday to tell me that after "extensive research" (ha! I found this post after an hour on Google!) he could confirm that after a long period of time with no outbreaks, HSV antibodies do in fact fall to levels undetectable in the blood. How long, no one seems to know. I can only say in my case it was 14 years.
There is very little research, if any at all, about the effects of long term doses of acyclovir. So, if it is of any use to anyone, I can allay one fear (that I always had) about passing the virus on. Being on a permanent dose of Acyclovir not only stops outbreaks, it also stops asymptomatic shedding of the virus (being occasionaly infectious even though you have no symptoms). I know this because my partner of the last 13 years has never become infected.
I agree and the commentary is not correct. A person infected with HSV will carry the IgG antibodies for life. In most cases this is reliably measured by an IgG antigen blood test. This is regardless of outbreak or not.
Thanks for the response Fleetwood!-So, basically, regardless of whether or not the virus has become latent, or is active, the level of antibody response in an infected person should still be detectable by current igg tests we have available (assuming the test is taken 12-16 weeks post exposure; be it five years post exposure, or 10 years post exposure)? In other words, if I go three years without an active outbreak, my test result should still be positive, as it would be if I was having an outbreak every month, or at the time that I was being tested?
I've apparently been reading a lot of misinformation. I've read arguments that, if the virus was not active, or had not been active for several years, a negative blood test result may occur, because the antibodies had fallen to undetectable amounts (how misleading), and that if you'd had an active outbreak, or a recent outbreak, at the time of igg blood testing, the results would be positive! This could cause a great deal of anxiety for people trying to get a clear diagnosis, years after potential exposure or with symptoms that may have presented as unclear at an earlier date in time. Thanks for all of your advice and knowledge!!
I've apparently been reading a lot of misinformation. I've read arguments that, if the virus was not active, or had not been active for several years, a negative blood test result may occur, because the antibodies had fallen to undetectable amounts (how misleading), and that if you'd had an active outbreak, or a recent outbreak, at the time of igg blood testing, the results would be positive! This could cause a great deal of anxiety for people trying to get a clear diagnosis, years after potential exposure or with symptoms that may have presented as unclear at an earlier date in time. Thanks for all of your advice and knowledge!!
This observation, often termed retroversion, is exceptionally rare. I believe it has been observed in only a handful of people who have had the virus 20 years or more. They may even have other immune deficiency issues.
The vast bulk of the population will test a healthy positive for life!
The vast bulk of the population will test a healthy positive for life!
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