Aa
Not being able to find things
Today while talking to my brother we happened on the subject of not being able to find things like car keys, tools, etc. As we were talking about this I realized something that may make some sense out of why we can't find things.
I was telling him about how a few months ago I could not find my hammer even though I looked every where in my house, barn, basement, and even truck. Eventually I gave up after several hours and went to the store and bought myself a new hammer. As soon as I got home with the new hammer, then sitting on the Kitchen counter was the old hammer. I had looked there many times, because it was the last place I was doing work, but never saw it.
So why didn't I see it? My theory is that even though I knew I was looking for my hammer, exactly what a hammer looks like was not being connected in my mind. Kind of like the way we will say dish washer when we meant to say fridge. The connection between what we meant to say and what that thing is, is not being made correctly so out mind uses something else in its place. There may or may not be any connection for what is picked to what is really meant though most of the time there seems to be a connection. So when we meant to say fridge our mind couldn't find fridge, though it did know it was an item in the kitchen, so it picked some other kitchen appliance.
So in the end when I was looking for the hammer my mind probably knew it was a tool but since it didn't know what a hammer looked like right then, it substituted some other tool for that image. And after I bought the new hammer my mind then knew what a hammer looked like so when I got home the connection between what a hammer looks like was made and I could now find my old hammer.
The next time I am having trouble with finding something I'll have to remember to try out my theory by going to the store but not buying the item and see if I can then find the item when I get home.
Dennis
I was telling him about how a few months ago I could not find my hammer even though I looked every where in my house, barn, basement, and even truck. Eventually I gave up after several hours and went to the store and bought myself a new hammer. As soon as I got home with the new hammer, then sitting on the Kitchen counter was the old hammer. I had looked there many times, because it was the last place I was doing work, but never saw it.
So why didn't I see it? My theory is that even though I knew I was looking for my hammer, exactly what a hammer looks like was not being connected in my mind. Kind of like the way we will say dish washer when we meant to say fridge. The connection between what we meant to say and what that thing is, is not being made correctly so out mind uses something else in its place. There may or may not be any connection for what is picked to what is really meant though most of the time there seems to be a connection. So when we meant to say fridge our mind couldn't find fridge, though it did know it was an item in the kitchen, so it picked some other kitchen appliance.
So in the end when I was looking for the hammer my mind probably knew it was a tool but since it didn't know what a hammer looked like right then, it substituted some other tool for that image. And after I bought the new hammer my mind then knew what a hammer looked like so when I got home the connection between what a hammer looks like was made and I could now find my old hammer.
The next time I am having trouble with finding something I'll have to remember to try out my theory by going to the store but not buying the item and see if I can then find the item when I get home.
Dennis
So the key to this problem is to have someone else to blame?! LOL! My girls would really think I was going crazy for sure if I started blaming this on __!
Seriously though,Dennis and JJ,I'm so glad to hear I'm not going crazy! I think you're both correct. I don't know how many times I've thought something was "gone for good";I walk away and get busy,and then later I find it right where I left it!
Seriously though,Dennis and JJ,I'm so glad to hear I'm not going crazy! I think you're both correct. I don't know how many times I've thought something was "gone for good";I walk away and get busy,and then later I find it right where I left it!
I don't know the answer, but I too have this problem and just blame it on "murphy" who lives at my house constantly. Like Dennis, I often replace things, out of spite to Murphy, and eventually they show up and then I have a spare.
The key, is to keep the "spare" in a special place so that you can outfox Murphy the next time you can't find "it".
Ironically, over the years, I've collected way too many pair of scissors and boxes of straight pins in sewing due to Murphy!
The key, is to keep the "spare" in a special place so that you can outfox Murphy the next time you can't find "it".
Ironically, over the years, I've collected way too many pair of scissors and boxes of straight pins in sewing due to Murphy!
Visual memory ... ? Two more things have happened recently that may be related. I used to be able to carry a map in my head while driving -- I'm now missing turns/not knowing where I am for a period of time while driving. I tried to map my neighbourhood the other day and could only hold/remember about two roads at one time for the mental picture. (Used to be able to literally flip through textbook pages in my mind :-P)
Then, had a very embarrassing doctor's appointment last week where I had to talk about my thyroid. To simplify, I've said I couldn't figure out right and left. I could as far as my hands go. But we were looking at the screen, so of course the images look reversed. The entire appointment I couldn't do the translation of "the image on the right is my left thyroid". Forgot? over and over again. I was very embarrassed. Not something I've ever had trouble with before.
I've misplaced keys for years (that would just be distractedness). Since January, though, I actually am now finding keys/cellphone etc. in places I've already checked a few times and just didn't see them.
It's weird and very frustrating.
Then, had a very embarrassing doctor's appointment last week where I had to talk about my thyroid. To simplify, I've said I couldn't figure out right and left. I could as far as my hands go. But we were looking at the screen, so of course the images look reversed. The entire appointment I couldn't do the translation of "the image on the right is my left thyroid". Forgot? over and over again. I was very embarrassed. Not something I've ever had trouble with before.
I've misplaced keys for years (that would just be distractedness). Since January, though, I actually am now finding keys/cellphone etc. in places I've already checked a few times and just didn't see them.
It's weird and very frustrating.
While some of what you said might be true, it doesn't answer all of the situations.
First off all memory, short or long term, is a matter of association and in most cases this involves visual images in the mind. This is why it is easier to learn a new language if it is done through images. If you are trying to learn the word for a woman in language X, you look at a picture of a woman and listen to the word in language X. After a while of repeating this that word and the image of a woman is transferred to your long term memory just as the word for a woman is already stored there in your native language.
In fact that is how everything is transferred to your long term memory, repetition is the key. This is why it is recommended for patient with short term memory problems to repeat everything several time in order to get it into their long term memory.
What I was talking about was how it might be the breaking of the association between objects and their images in the mind. It is known that someone that has had a stroke or traumatic brain injury will quite often have to relearn these associations in order to access their memory of them. I think I remember hearing about this with the congresswoman that was shot in the head.
So I was wondering if the damage being done to our brains by the MS might also be causing the same kind of effects, if only temporarily , in our brains so that we have difficulty finding things that are right there in front of us.
For another example I keep my keys on a nail right next to my front door. I have done this for years even in previous homes. The keys are the only thing on this nail ever and should rightly be stored in my long term memory. About a year or so ago I could not find my keys. After looking for them for several hours I finally went and got my spare keys. When I returned to my front door their on the nail was my regular set of keys.
Dennis
First off all memory, short or long term, is a matter of association and in most cases this involves visual images in the mind. This is why it is easier to learn a new language if it is done through images. If you are trying to learn the word for a woman in language X, you look at a picture of a woman and listen to the word in language X. After a while of repeating this that word and the image of a woman is transferred to your long term memory just as the word for a woman is already stored there in your native language.
In fact that is how everything is transferred to your long term memory, repetition is the key. This is why it is recommended for patient with short term memory problems to repeat everything several time in order to get it into their long term memory.
What I was talking about was how it might be the breaking of the association between objects and their images in the mind. It is known that someone that has had a stroke or traumatic brain injury will quite often have to relearn these associations in order to access their memory of them. I think I remember hearing about this with the congresswoman that was shot in the head.
So I was wondering if the damage being done to our brains by the MS might also be causing the same kind of effects, if only temporarily , in our brains so that we have difficulty finding things that are right there in front of us.
For another example I keep my keys on a nail right next to my front door. I have done this for years even in previous homes. The keys are the only thing on this nail ever and should rightly be stored in my long term memory. About a year or so ago I could not find my keys. After looking for them for several hours I finally went and got my spare keys. When I returned to my front door their on the nail was my regular set of keys.
Dennis
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hey Dennis, I think your putting together two very different issues, i'm pretty sure they are both basically related to 'working memory' deficits but word recall is stored in our long term working memory bank and forgetting where you put something, would be stored in our short term working memory bank.
Our short term memory is kind of like a back board, what's written on it is constantly being wiped off and replaced with something else, information is only transferred into our long term memory if it is repetitive, of significance, connected to an emotion etc. Visual memory also comes into play in both long and short term memory too. There is also a difference in not being able to find where you put something and not actually 'seeing' something that is visibly right there under your nose.
Sometimes not seeing something that's actually there, is because of expectation of it not being in the place you've already looked and or visual recall. Say for instance you 'quickly' look on the bench where you expect an item to be and you see lots of items but not what your looking for, so you look somewhere else. Not finding the item, you go back to where you first expected it to be and again note the other items you saw before but not the one you want. The initial quick perusal sets off the item as missing, its not but your brain is relying on the visual information and because your not expecting it to be where you've already looked, you won't see it until you stop looking for it, which severs the cognitive loop.
My son, daughter and husband can never find anything, son's visual memory testing is well above normal but it doesn't change the fact that he looses everything and anything if its not nailed down, just like his dad. I on the other hand 'had' a freaky visual working memory, if i'd seen an item any item, i didn't need to look i'd just know exactly where to find it, even if it was minutes or years ago. Name a topic of my interest and i'd be able to tell you everything there was to know, but now i know the information is still there though it takes a long time to pull the information out and sometimes its just a black hole of nothing.
Still can't forget standing at the front door and not being able to find the key that opened it, only 3 keys on the ring, 2 gold and 1 silver and i'd been using the same gold key for 20 years and i couldn't find it with a 50/50 chance. I did wonder if i'd grabbed a different set of house key's, but they were mine so i threw them back into my hand bag, shut the screen and went to the letter box to throw in a distraction from the loop, next time i grabbed those keys i found the right one.
An alternate food for thought.........JJ
Our short term memory is kind of like a back board, what's written on it is constantly being wiped off and replaced with something else, information is only transferred into our long term memory if it is repetitive, of significance, connected to an emotion etc. Visual memory also comes into play in both long and short term memory too. There is also a difference in not being able to find where you put something and not actually 'seeing' something that is visibly right there under your nose.
Sometimes not seeing something that's actually there, is because of expectation of it not being in the place you've already looked and or visual recall. Say for instance you 'quickly' look on the bench where you expect an item to be and you see lots of items but not what your looking for, so you look somewhere else. Not finding the item, you go back to where you first expected it to be and again note the other items you saw before but not the one you want. The initial quick perusal sets off the item as missing, its not but your brain is relying on the visual information and because your not expecting it to be where you've already looked, you won't see it until you stop looking for it, which severs the cognitive loop.
My son, daughter and husband can never find anything, son's visual memory testing is well above normal but it doesn't change the fact that he looses everything and anything if its not nailed down, just like his dad. I on the other hand 'had' a freaky visual working memory, if i'd seen an item any item, i didn't need to look i'd just know exactly where to find it, even if it was minutes or years ago. Name a topic of my interest and i'd be able to tell you everything there was to know, but now i know the information is still there though it takes a long time to pull the information out and sometimes its just a black hole of nothing.
Still can't forget standing at the front door and not being able to find the key that opened it, only 3 keys on the ring, 2 gold and 1 silver and i'd been using the same gold key for 20 years and i couldn't find it with a 50/50 chance. I did wonder if i'd grabbed a different set of house key's, but they were mine so i threw them back into my hand bag, shut the screen and went to the letter box to throw in a distraction from the loop, next time i grabbed those keys i found the right one.
An alternate food for thought.........JJ
Wow,
I am going to try this. I think we probably all have these stories. Mine was my keys. I knew where I put them.. Even looked there. Had new ones made. 2 months later my husband brought me my old keys he pulled them from the pocket in the driver door where I had put them. I will so keep this in mind.... If I can.
Missy
I am going to try this. I think we probably all have these stories. Mine was my keys. I knew where I put them.. Even looked there. Had new ones made. 2 months later my husband brought me my old keys he pulled them from the pocket in the driver door where I had put them. I will so keep this in mind.... If I can.
Missy
I could not find my purse today... Looked in all my spots I keep it in.. I never really thought of it being a ms thing ... I was doing my weekly cooking so I was of course scatter brained
I actually wanted Something out if my purse so therefore my mind would have been picturing the item not the purse so I truly think you are on to something!!! I am going to test this!!!
Oh and the purse was right on the kitchen counter beside me ... And my husband had to tell me where it was!!!
You are so onto something here!
I actually wanted Something out if my purse so therefore my mind would have been picturing the item not the purse so I truly think you are on to something!!! I am going to test this!!!
Oh and the purse was right on the kitchen counter beside me ... And my husband had to tell me where it was!!!
You are so onto something here!
Hope you find the cash. I've found money in places I would have NEVER stashed it. Hope you and N are doing well!
I do the same! I have been blaming "baby brain". Today it was text messages. But every day its something :)
I was unsuccesful in finding something today and I tried to picture it after being unsuccessful finding it last night.
Might be harder though since I only vaguely remember what the darned box looks like. :-)
Might be harder though since I only vaguely remember what the darned box looks like. :-)
Finding a lost item, I've found, is one of the fastest and most certain answers to prayer that I receive. Still missing a $100 bill, though. Probably a good reason for that.
That's really interesting. I have this problem as well. I notice it especially when baking. I KNOW there is a measuring spoon on the counter because I got it out and placed it there. I look for it, and I can't see it. I see counter. I look around for a few minutes, although have finally learned to walk away and come back and generally it's right where I left it.
This happens when I'm in the middle of an episode (that isn't yet ms) -- can go for a couple of weeks doing this, then it gets better ... (or I just don't look for small things!).
This happens when I'm in the middle of an episode (that isn't yet ms) -- can go for a couple of weeks doing this, then it gets better ... (or I just don't look for small things!).
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