Fiancé attracted to his 17 year old daughter

[lovestodancemom]

I am unsure of what to think or how to handle the situation I am in. My fiancé has an older daughter who lives with us part of the time and the other time at her moms. She is an attractive young woman. He was not in her life at a constant for 6 years as he lived away but would visit her often.  He and her mom split when she was just 2. I know he feels guilty about not being in her life day in and day out as she grew up, and it shows today because she runs the house. She comes and goes as she pleases, has no curfew, has a part time job but no bills, does not clean or pick up after herself unless he looks in her room and says how disgusting it is and that she should pick up. He bought her a car, I helped pay a little towards that, he pays her car insurance(which I totally get) I think he should but the deal was if he got her a car she would have to pay her phone bill or car insurance/ she pays neither. I think the bottom line is - he feels guilty still today and so then she gets to do whatever she wants. The only time she is made to be held responsible for anything is when he and I have a talk and I will make suggestions or insist that she pay for example, a $100 pair of jeans she wants. I think of she has a part time job and doesn't have to pay for anything else then she can use her own money for expensive clothes if that's what she is wanting.

Here lately and off and on over time, I have felt sort of less of a priority to my fiancé  when she is around us. If she isn't present, he falls all over me and treats me great. It's become more and more obvious over time that this is happening. Just the other night in particular she was at our house with her boyfriend and I sat at the kitchen table and my fiancé on the couch(dining and living area are close together) when she was there she was braiding her hair and I looked at him just because that's what I do, and he was staring at her as if to lust over her...it made me feel instantly uncomfortable and when she stood up he clearly looked her up and down, more then once, staring at her bottom, more than once like he was checking her out. I was absolutely repulsed.

He treats her sometimes like she is his significant other - I keep thinking the ways he will look at her sometimes are ways I have caught him looking at me :/ something just feels way off with this and I need some advice.

I also have a son and we have a little girl together.. I am very much in love with him and I feel awkward and torn. I have confronted him about this and he just seemed highly offended but wouldn't say a word to me. Wouldn't look me in the eye.

What should I do? Am I overreacting?

[lovestodancemom]

Thanks so much for such a positive reply @Nighthawk61 :) therapy really is a great thing and I think so many people could benefit from it. It's refreshing to have a third party be there to listen and to give helpful advice and solutions.

And I am very grateful that we have my 12 year old son and our 2 1/2 year old daughter at home with us. We have visited my fiancés 18 year a couple times since she's been in college. I took her to buy some supplies for classes and things for her dorm room. And we've gone up and taken her to lunch as well. She seems to be adjusting well. She's most definitely learning responsibility and independence.

We have talked about his daughter in therapy but only briefly - at some point we may touch on that again.

All in all I feel like things are going smoothly.

We've had many transitions happen, and we are still adjusting to them all. I continue to pray for the best in everything we experience as a family and as a couple.

[Nighthawk61]

I'm really glad to hear how much the therapy is helping you both to communicate with each most effectively, but also that your husband is being given the tools to parent more effectively so you're not being used as an emotional punching bag anymore. It's amazing what an hour can do huh? It's so frustrating when i talk to people about therapy and they are so resistant when it's only a one hour investment. I too am glad you both agreed on the therapy. I mean , who couldn't use one at least once in their lives?

Happy days gf. Enjoy the times that come from having a son at home, and a another 2 1/2 year old (i wish it was me). My son loved living in the dorm and made fast friends with so many interesting and diverse people. It's a wonderful opportunity for you daughter.

Maybe you should bring it up in therapy that your daughter has said that she thinks it would be easier to have her parents get back together.? It might be something that your husband needs to discuss with her, especially if she said it in front of you. It's an important lesson to teach our kids inclusion and to hold their tongue rather than to take a change of making someone feel unimportant, or replaceable.

Have you got the baby in your daughter's room now?

[lovestodancemom]

Also ..he hasn't been verbally abusive with his daughter either,  our therapist just suggested that he talk to her about things concerning issues has has with her - to address it when it happens and to try his best not to take it out on me..

[lovestodancemom]

I appreciate your response (:

My fiancé actually does support her - the only thing I mentioned is that THEY had an agreement when she asked for a car. HE told her if she did have the privilege of having a car she would either have to pay her auto insurance or her cell phone bill. I had zero to do with that arrangement. I only started to get bothered bc when she didn't pay it, he would get into a terrible mood and take it out on me instead of talking to her about it.

One day he told me he was done worrying about her paying anything bc obviously she's not going to. He also stated he was done with the random handouts of money to her. I don't even talk about what she doesnt pay, as long as he doesn't take his anger out on me bc of it then I am good.

I don't feel like I was reading too much into anything. I think parents should help and support their children - 100% agree with that.

The actual issue was that he was verbally abusing me bc she wasn't paying anything they agreed on. We have been to couples counseling a few times now and it has really helped - now we have been having a lot better communication and understanding with one another. And the verbal abuse has improved a great deal...

He has also been verablizing things to his daughter when he is frustrated with her and doesn't take it out on me, which is great.

[SmartEpants]

Anony_mouse, your assumptions are ridiculous. He is willing to "pay for everything" because she is his daughter and he wants to support her. I am 21 years old (in college) and my parents treat me almost exactly how the father treats his daughter. They bought me a car, pay for my gas, pay for my private college tuition, food, clothing, haircuts etc. Most of my friends who are my age get the same treatment; upper class families tend to dole out more financial support to their kids.
Furthermore, my mom says things like "what a cute little hiney!" in a baby voice when I wear short shorts. My mother is not sick or incestual -- she pretty much sees me as a five year old when she looks at me and it makes her think of what a cute kid I was. Parents can look their kids up and down without being attracted to them. You are reading way too much into this.

[lovestodancemom]

Thank you for replying(:

She gets along with her other siblings ok. She had other half siblings from her mom and stepdad before my son or I ever came into the picture, and they get along ok.

I think she got so used to getting all the attention from my fiancé before he met me that now that we are in a serious committed relationship - it bothers her bc she doesn't get all of his attention. And she still says it would be much easier if him and her mom were still together. She actually tried to get them to go on a date to have dinner to talk about her college financial aid....he told her he absolutely would not do that.

It is really hard to pinpoint what exactly she is trying to accomplish - maybe to not have me around. But honestly I am a good person towards her, I just try to help if she asks and lend advice if she comes to me with anything. She still will tell me things she won't talk to her dad about so I know she trusts me and likes me to a degree or she wouldn't do that.

[Nighthawk61]

I'm glad to hear that you have an open door policy for your oldest girl and i'm sure that it's not a huge bone of contention, since the room is taken by her blood brother. As the years progress, she will thank you both for giving her brothers.

It's fabulous that you chose to live so close to her mother. I think that it makes up for your not having a room just for her. The fact that she can keep her room at her mom's house, (until you have room for a guest /her bedroom) that allows her easy access to her dad means a lot. If she regresses, let her know that it was with her in mind that you moved where you did.

How does she relate and get along with her siblings ? I take it that she is an only child, before you and your son joined the family.

[lovestodancemom]

Thanks for your response:)

His 18 year old is staying at her moms where she also has a bedroom, they have a bigger house than we do. Her mom lives about 5 minutes from us. Our 2 1/2 year had been sleeping/living in her crib in our bedroom that she outgrew about a year ago:/ We were going to wait until the 18 year old actually started college to put her things into storage but our 2 1/2 year old was waking up every night from my fiancé snoring. Plus she desperately needed a bigger bed which wouldn't fit in our bedroom.

The circumstances right now don't allow us to keep a bedroom for the 18 year old. We only have 3 bedrooms and we have my 12 year old son and our 2 1/2 year old.

We initially say down with the 18 year old and explained that the little one truly needed her own bedroom and that we would need to put her things in storage since she is going to be living in the dorms soon. She expressed understanding and said she could stay at her moms until college began.

We realize that it definitely has to be an awkward/brand new transition for the 18 year old, we just don't have another bedroom to keep her a room here.

We have also told her she is welcome here anytime to stay over in her sisters room, we have a brand new air mattress for visitors until we have a bigger home. We invite her all the time to have dinner or to just hang out/go places with us.

It's kinda tough on all of us, but we are trying to make it work.

Hopefully she'll understand why we had to make that change sooner than we normally would have if we had a bigger house with more space..

[RockRose]

If you or your boyfriend go to college orientation with her (around here,  that's what's expected of freshmen parents but maybe not everywhere does that) you'll hear a talk about specifically not changing things in the home the first semester.  It usually goes something like,  "the minute they're out the door,  don't turn their bedroom into your sewing room".  Everyone kind of laughs,  but the talk goes on further to say that college freshmen need an "anchor" - a place where they think is still the same after they left,  where they can come home at Thanksgiving and Christmas and every thing will be the same for them,  and they will feel that they've been missed and their room is still waiting.  I'm not sure where he's living at this time,  it seems too early for her to be in the dorm yet.  

[lovestodancemom]

I definitely agree that I am living in a co dependent situation. He is totally taking advantage of my help and me doing almost all of the chores.

My son is 12, he cleans up after himself and his room. (Still he keeps his room cleaner then my fiancés 17 soon to be 18 year old daughter.) He doesn't currently have major chores. I told him once he's 13 he will have bigger chores, a bit more responsibility - doing some laundry, dishes, mopping, sweeping, etc. and will probably be doing some yard work.

I don't like things to get too dusty or dirty so I always end up cleaning up the messes. I have refused to do chores a couple of times bc I am just tired and he ends up doing them and he's huffing and puffing the entire time. He mows the grass every other week and takes our trash. It isn't like he does nothing -but he has said that women were meant to keep up the house so he doesn't feel like he should really have to do that much.. I am pretty sure his mom has always been the one that did everything in terms of inside housework and still does today. Probably why he has that mentality.

If I want his help I pretty much have to refuse to clean or beg him or make a deal with him - and that is sad. I know.

I appreciate your response!

[lovestodancemom]

Hello to everyone! Haven't been on in sometime. But I wanted to give an update.

My fiancés now 18 year old daughter is no longer living with us because she decided where she's going to college and we moved her things to storage. She will be living in the dorms while in college.

Although we sat down and spoke with her about putting her things into storage, bc she's going off to college,  she is mad and insists that we kicked her out.

She has also only been by our house maybe twice since she's been moved out. She's been moved out for a month.

She has blamed me for her moving out. She told my fiancé this in a text message about a week ago. And says he never gives her money like he used to before I came along.

My fiancé and I are in counseling and it really has helped our communication! I am truly grateful we both agreed that couples counseling would be good.

All in all I hope his daughter learns more about life once she starts college. I hope she gives me a chance one day. I've known her for 4 years and she's never liked me.

Hoping and praying for the best!

Thanks for reading!

[lovestodancemom]

Nighthawk61 , thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and for the advice. Our counseling will begin this month and I'm so glad it does.

I believe my fiancé has some deep-seeded issues that I don't fully understand right now and I hope to understand them in our counseling session(s).

His moods change really often and we don't have a smoothly run household at all. I do 90% of the household chores. He plays video games 4-5 days per week for 3 hours at a time. And we both work full time jobs. It's really very chaotic and I would like to understand some better ways for us to function as a couple and as a family.  

I am always praying things get better(:

[Nighthawk61]

You're most welcome. I can't wait to hear you've started the therapy. I'm praying for you.  It  will be interesting to hear how it goes. Whether for instance, his mother was an extreme caretaker, and if he grew up in a co-dependent home. Currently you are living in a co-dependent home. In that he is acting sick (and unavailable) and you are currently doing share. That's the dictionary definition of Co-Dependence. He is TEACHING HIS CHILD CO-DEPENDENCE. And how sad for her. (and her future husband and children). MOST IMPORTANTLY, he needs to understand that his daughter will take her cues from him, and not you. If he is lazy, self absorbed and uncaring, she is taking that in. She sees you being the mule and doing everything and her choice is to be lazy. You being a good role model will be wasted on this girl, like her dad she will take the easiest route, You mentioned he get's frustrated with his daughter, and he needs to learn that it is by HIS actions (not yours) that his daughter is emulating. He needs to have this therapist get through to him that he is spoiling his child, and unworthy of your constant devotion.

You mentioned that you have a child at home as well, does your child help to contribute to household chores at all?  Is it possible to have someone come in for $15.00 an hour to help you out? (that's the going rate up here in Canada for a housekeeper). If they came in for 3 hours a week, they could give the floors a good vaccuum and wash, clean under the sinks, make the garbage cans sparkle., as well as the bathrooms. It might be worth it for you to get a break and try and go and do something for entertainment for yourself. Maybe a swim group at the YWCA? Do you have female friends that you can get out with?

You have to break the cycle of co-dependence, by going on a bit of a strike I think. It's unproductive to continue doing the 90%. If it were me, i would write out a list, assign jobs to everyone (fairly) Keep it on the fridge. And WORK TO RULE. If the vacuuming doesn't get done, let them get dirty. Really dirty. In order to save your sanity and teach others how to treat you, you might have to put up with a bit of a mess. You can learn how to let go a bit of the compulsion to control everything for your own good, so you can have time to yourself.
I often make the food for the week, in one day. so i don't have to wash pots and pans every day.  

[specialmom]

lovetodancemom, you have a really good attitude.  You are open minded and do not become defensive which is terrific!  That will bode well for your future happiness.  I think couples counseling sounds like a great idea.

I'm wondering too if you could think of a way to find something to like about hs daughter---  a common interest, etc. so that you begin to have a connection with her in some way.  Is that possible at all?  I know it is hard and especially with a moody teen.  But that might help A. how you feel about her, B. how she feels about you and C. how her dad feels about your suggestions with parenting.  

Let us know how this progresses.  I think your heart is in the right place.  So, I hope it works out.  good luck

[lovestodancemom]

Thank you for your comment:)

I definitely try my best to just be a calm person in our household. And it's really kind of a strange relationship I have with his daughter, considering he tells me she doesn't like me too much. She will ask me for advice on clothes, ask for advice about life in general, she has even confided in me with things that she won't speak with her dad about.

We've run to the mall together, to get groceries together, we've had our nails done together, we all go to the movies as a family sometimes and go to dinner, she is just mostly with her boyfriend or friends which is totally normal, I know. I have tried to be close with her - but sometimes she is hard to read or if I ask she just no that's ok.

My fiancé acts very possessive of her and I think that may be why I find it hard to get close to her. I am afraid he doesn't really want me to.

An example is on her prom night she forgot her key and called my phone instead of his to let her in so she could change clothes and go to a bonfire with friends. My fiancé was livid the next morning and acted very jealous that she did not call his phone instead of calling mine.

I honesty feel confused most days of what my role is in his daughters life. All I've ever tried to do is be there when she needs me, and maybe that's all I should do is just be a friend to her when she is in need. It's not the best scenario but it's better than nothing at all.

[Nighthawk61]

If this girl didn't like you, she wouldn't be spending time with you. Then you say that your fiance is jealous of her calling you? I find that really telling. (that there is a problem with him). He should want her to have respectful contact with you, for HER own good. You're a role model, she needs women role models. It's sounds like he might even be manipulating you by checking her out in front of you, Maybe wanting you to feel off center and not want to get too close? That plus he's not treating you the best in front of her. Why? I think the counseling should start stat. So far, i'm hearing something unhealthy, or a problem with his feeling comfortable having a fiance and a teenage daughter,  but not so much with you or the girl. It's good that you are being mindful of this situation. I think you're quite right to be looking at him and having questions. Hopefully you will get your answers in counseling. Hope to hear how it goes, and how you're feeling. Keep your chin up. Blended families are always hard. But it is not always the child or the step parent that is "making strange".

[Nighthawk61]

I too applaud your calm demeanor and non defensive posture. You're doing what you need to do.  and are capable of taking advice and direction. I hope that he is as well. Because that's what this girl needs, and that's what you need. and that's what he would most benefit by.

[Anony_mouse63]

If your fiancé has had a pornography fetish and has had many sexual partners, then he is most definitely checking her out. He might have a fetish for his daughter or just simply sexually attracted to her body. This doesn't necessarily mean he would do anything sexual with her in the physical sense but he might be having sexual thoughts of her. I think everyone has thoughts or fantasies that occur but don't necessarily act on them. I know plenty of men and women who fantasize about doing things they would never actually really do. But to be safe you might want to keep a close eye on them. I can tell you from experience that his willingness to pay for everything and letting her get away with things might be his subconscious mind allowing her in hopes of some form of repayment possibly in the form of sexual favors. I was in an incestuous relationship with an uncle who treated me the same way. Although he was only four years my senior. But I have heard of fathers grooming their daughters for sex. Just keep an eye on them but try not to put too much on it. Sometimes our minds add things that aren't really actually there.

[lovestodancemom]

Thank you for responding. I do wonder what exactly goes through his mind when she is around because he does give her so much attention. I realize she is his first born and she's going to college soon and maybe he just can't believe she's grown up so fast. And I suppose he could be more or less admiring her beauty bc she is an attractive young lady.

With that being said, I will just kind of have to watch what I say but keep an eye on the situation.

My fiancé and I don't have a wedding date, and we both believe we should have couples counseling before walking down the isle. I'm hoping these issues can be worked out in these counseling sessions.

[lovestodancemom]

Thanks for your response. I agree with what you say about mostly paying for your children's expenses at this age. I think that's pretty normal, actually. He acts more frustrated about her not paying her $50 car insurance than I am about it. He gets worried when she's passed her curfew, but doesn't say a word to her. He has made comments that all she does is have her hand out and we never see her.

I feel like I have mostly been feeling at odds about most of this because he is not a communicator more like a complainer to me and won't voice it to her. But I don't feel like it's my place to say anything. Even though I have suggested I could talk to her and he says "you just don't like her - if you're wanting to talk to her about rules and curfews on my behalf."  

[lovestodancemom]

Hello, thanks for welcoming me. The only bill he decided she had to pay was $50 towards her auto insurance, and that was if he bought her a car. But she does not pay it. We don't know her work schedule, and he actually commented the other day - he's not even sure if she still has a job. I don't ask her to pay anything , the auto insurance was an agreement they had. But it fell through. I understand that's his business with her. I guess I have tried to be there for him when he seems frustrated that she didn't pay her part again. But mostly I don't say the things I am thinking, only sometimes so I voice my opinion. And mostly it's when he asks.

My fiancé and I split almost every bill in the household and I would never ask her to pay for groceries or pay utilities or anything of that nature.

She did have a curfew but slowly it sort of just turned into not having a curfew. I haven't said anything to her or him but I do worry about her in general and I was that age once so I can definitely sympathize. I worry mostly about her bring out too late and getting tired and being behind the wheel.

I guess there is a bit of jealousy on my part because he has treated me inferior in front of her and put me down verbally in front of her. I have never actually disciplined her or made rules for her to follow. She is a bright young woman with bright plans in the future. I don't have hatred or dislike for her at all - I guess it's more that I wish my fiancé would treat me a little better in front of her and maybe her and I would be a bit closer. I wished for that anyway. And I guess maybe we could be close later on when she is a bit older.

And to delve a bit deeper into why I feel like he may be viewing her in a sexual manner - he used to have a pornography fetish, he has been with a lot of women in the past, and he told me that when he was younger he saw and heard sexual things as a young child he shouldn't have ever seen or heard. And maybe my senses are too sensitive in this situation because of my knowledge of his past.

I do agree that I should try my best to keep things to myself. Thanks so much for replying.

[RockRose]

I agree with SM - parents in my community pay for their kid's car insurance,  car,  clothing,  phone,  etc for their minor kids.  It's great that she's working,  building a work ethic,  but she wouldn't be expected to be self-supporting in my circle of friends.

Some people do feel differently,  and if you put your foot down about this,  expect that when your children become teenagers you will have to treat them the same - and not expect to fully support them - they'll have to work part time also and pay for their extras.

That she has a boyfriend,  who is welcome in your home,  indicates this really isn't a case of possessive sexuality.  It does seem he could be a little more discreet in enjoying her physical beauty.  

In my opinion,  "coming and going as she pleases,  has no curfew,  and keeps her room a mess" doesn't equate to "running the house".  Running the house would mean she decides on the furnishings,  who can come and go,  what's for dinner,  claiming the master bedroom for herself,  etc.  

As it is,  she's a typical self-absorbed teenager.  And that's kind of what they're supposed to be doing at that time in their lives - focusing on themselves.

[specialmom]

Hi, welcome to the forum.  This is always hard for me.  I have kids myself. 17 is still a kid.  She's still his child.  I am sure I'll pay my kids car insurance when they are 17, give them gas money, buy them things and shower them with what I can.  That's just me.  I do have expectations about how they treat their things and how they contribute to the household . . .   but I'm a constant in their life so it is easier for me to have firm rules.  Her dad has not been a full time parent so it is harder.  He should set appropriate boundaries for her with regards to curfew (for her own protection), etc.  But what bills are a 17 year old supposed to have?  You want a minor child to pay rent?  Buy her own food?  Usually parents do support their kids.  

You are viewing his child as the other woman.  That's not helpful.  I have a son who is a preteen.  He's very handsome.  Sometimes I stop and gaze at him in an odd way because he is a bit of a mystery to me that A. I produced this gorgeous child and B. he once was this tiny little guy that sat on my lap and wore Winnie the poo t shirts.  Looking for a moment at how your child is developing into a mature person is pretty normal . . .  I think.  Admiring them in the process as well.  It doesn't mean it is sexual or inappropriate and it is strange to me that you read that into it.  

Are you not trusting that your boyfriend cares for you or finds you attractive?  Or do you sincerely believe that this man you love is sexually turned on by his daughter?  Because to be honest . . .  I'd find that to make him someone not worthy of being with.  With it being one or the other---  you have to decide if this is YOUR problem or HIS.  If it is yours, find ways to get over it.  You can discuss parenting and rules of the house but the problem is . . .  it doesn't come from a true positive place.  You want her gone and don't like her as part of your boyfriend's life.  Any parent that picks up on that might just take their daughter and leave.  And you say you love him and want to be with him.  If you can't get past these feelings about his daughter----  this just will not work.  She's 17 now but that doesn't mean she's going anywhere in the next few years.  I know I was still dependent on my parents all through college.

I'm not unsympathetic.  Don't get me wrong.  I just think that you are in a no win situation and so is his daughter.  She has every right to be an obnoxious teenager.  She's had a broken home, a dad that comes and goes from what you've written, and now a woman in her dad's life that doesn't like her and feels threatened by her.  

And I wouldn't really like dealing with all this either---  which is why I did not date men with kids.  :>)  So hard to make a relationship work without that aspect.  So I avoided it to give my relationship the best chance of survival.  

So, tread lightly with him, see if you can gently work on some house rules but keep the other stuff to yourself and try to move past it.  good luck