Why don't the thoughts go away?

[shaz853]

I have been having suicidal thoughts for six months and have had made two attempts in the past five months, the first time my therapist rang the police and they found me, the 2nd time a family member found me the 2nd time i was hospitalized. I still have the thoughts, i hate being like this, does anyone feel like this and does it ever go away. I do suffer from depression and post traumatic stress and i am receiving therapy for this but i still have the thoughts, does it ever go away?

[Jaquta]

It can be confusing when everything seems to contradict itself.
It was good that he referred you to somebody else.

I too have been so anxious it is difficult to think let alone follow a conversation.

Having a good relationship with a T is the most important thing.  Without that the therapy isn't as effective.
Therapy shouldn't really be that overwhelming.  If your T is any good they should be able to support you through the process.

When I become unwell and feel trapped and overwhelmed I want to run too.

It's probably stress, anxiety, depression, fatigue, etc.
My GP a while back told me I was banned from going to bed during the day.  I was exhausted and not sleeping at night.  I think it helps to try and get a regular pattern.
Maybe going for a short walk or doing something around the house might help.

[shaz853]

I think its hard to know what i need, i want to be alone but i don't want to be alone its weird. I had the psychoanalytical therapy for two years but i refused to go deeper and when he was getting near the problems my panic attacks got worse and i stopped going to him he then sent me for Cbt therapy where i have been since, it does help my therapist knows how to make me think differently well sometimes other times i am so anxious and confused i don't even know what he's saying. I know may be the psychoanalytical therapy might be better in some ways i was supposed to go back again but i never did, i have a better relationship with this therapist anyway.
The hospital worked at the time because i was behaving strangely, there they were able to watch me and know where i was, sometimes i feel ok and other times i feel like i could get in my car and just leave i have to battle with myself to stay here, i shouldn't have to do that.
I still feel weird today i'm not really here i just want to sleep i am so tired. Thanks for the website information i will check it out

[Jaquta]

I think so.  I sometimes have trouble relating and understanding when not in that particular emotional state.
I think asking for help would signify that I was in control.  When things are really bad for me I have a hard time asking for help.  I either feel too sick (and don't want help) or not sick enough.

I use to really hate asking for help too.  I would walk 30 km before asking someone driving in the same direction for a lift.  I think now I am better able to ask for help and also feel much more deserving of it.

I don't think you live with it or fight it.  I think you address it.  Once you address the underlying issues the anxiety reduces and resolves.

You could wake up one day and feel better but I think it would be unlikely.

Depression can affect insight.  When people are depressed they perhaps don't think as clearly.  Perceptions are very different to when a person is well.

The time after hospital admissions are generally when you are at greater risk therefore it probably makes sense that you would feel worse during this time.
I think it was about six weeks after I was discharged that I took all my discharge meds.

Knowing that support is available if you need it or choose to use it does help.  It is probably much better than feeling alone.

I'm sure that's the case with me too.  If only people did know what we were thinking.  Probably just as well they can't.
I think it is possible to lose control but it is probably unlikely.  

I don't know.  Depression and anxiety can get worse.  You may have psychotic breaks but I don't think you suddenly develop bipolar or schizophrenia.

The funny thing is it just shows how weak and defensive they, your parents, are.
Mine were/ are the same (they're a little better now) but they see my illness as a personal attack.  Instead of validating me and my experiences they deny my reality.  My parents have issues with status, parenting and I guess perception.
My parents would say talk to us if you feel suicidal but don't talk to us about mental health issues.  Hello?  I found it rejecting having them deny me talking about myself or an aspect of myself which had become quite important.  The safety stuff was more a demand so as they could feel in control.  I think my family are slightly more accepting of it now because they have seen how much I struggle but ... there still isn't that understanding.

It does sound as though we share similarities.
I'm wondering why you have been diagnosed with ptsd though and not bpd.

I find it easier to relate to people in formal situations.  In social situations I'm a mess.  I guess that comes back to lacking identity and a sense of self.
I never trusted anyone.  Probably still don't 100% but I am much improved.
I saw my GP weekly for almost three years before I felt comfortable addressing him by his first name.  Our relationship has grown but it has been a slow process.

Hope can be a very distant and faint light at the end of a very long tunnel some times.  The mhs drove all hope away from me.  They labelled me as being difficult and different and blamed me for all the systems failures.  It wasn't until I saw that good T that I started to believe that maybe I could make the necessary changes.

Maybe you wouldn't need that constant supervision.  I don't know about you but having people in my space actually stressed me out more and made me feel worse.  I felt I was going to have a heart attack in hospital because I was so stressed.
Having a containing environment can help.  I found that not needing to stress about food and meals and finances was a huge help.  I have issues with body image, etc.  Maybe you do need that level of supervision I don't know.  You will know what works best for you.

Stop running then and stand still.  I can understand where you're at because I would freak out if I had to try and break the cycle especially when unwell.  It seems so logical though.

My cousins death reinforced a lot of my losses.  When someone has things you don't it can be confusing.  There is a lot of unresolved stuff there for me that keeps coming up every now and then.
My cousin isn't always the trigger but I do have some pretty bad spots.  I felt that my safety issues were at a consistently dangerous level earlier in the year.  I find it frustrating not having that support.  I started taking a few lorazepam then and I found it helped to stabilize my mood and help me feel more in control.  My anxiety levels have been increasing again due to the referral for the independent review taking so long.

I think we mask a lot of things really well.  I generally are pretty open and honest about my thoughts and feelings when on the internet.  I have had a lot of support from Dr Gould the doctor on the mental health and emotional eating expert forums.  And several of the other experts.  The dental health expert has also provided a lot of emotional support in recent times.  (My teeth can throw me into a suicidal crisis.)

Things are fair.  It's good that you have that contact.

I probably mentioned psychoanalytical psychotherapy before.  have you ever tried that before?
Also, Dr Gould has some websites if you wanted to check them out.  He has one with a free three day trial.  It is myvirtualshrink.com.  I'm not pushing anything.  I tried one of his free trials and I think it helped (for a little bit at least).
I think it helps show some of the emotional stuff and how it contributes to us feeling low.

[shaz853]

I know that only me can really help me but i feel weird asking for help i seem to think that if i ask to be admitted to hospital then i don't really need to be admitted does that make sense? I hate asking for help but i don't know what to do myself i have had therapy for years for panic attacks and argraphobia and they never went away they did get easier but never left my therapist said i need to accept that i am an anxious person and live with it instead of fighting it, that i could deal with, depression and ptsd i can't deal with i can't accept it think i am in denial to how bad i am i think i will wake up one day and feel better, i have been out of hospital for two months and i feel worse than ever. I do try distraction and that helps for a while but as soon as i have time to think it all comes back again. I don't know if all the support i get helps or not but i'm glad its there whether i use it or noti know they are there. Sometimes i wish someone would make my decisions for me but i know they can't. I am scared i will eventually lose all control if i continue like this my therapist assures me i won't but he's not in my head, if he was i would have been locked up long ago. I wonder is it possible to develop more serious mental health disorders if you have had ones to start with.
I also have had problems from childhood my parents were very reserved and not much love was given i got pregnant at 16 and was made to feel so bad for it as if i had committed the worst crime ever. I have no friends only my partner my mother and father aren't really speaking to me because of my second suicide attempt they are ashamed of me, for years i had to try and hide my panic from them and the fact that i have a therapist in their eyes strong people don't have therapists, so now they know who i am and they can't accept it. I guess alot of my problems come from childhood and bad relationships as an adult i prefer to not have friends as then i can't be let down, i am very paranoid of people i think they don't like me and i never tell anyone that i have anxiety or argraphobia that is why it is such a relief to hear you, you sound alot like me.
I think that is why my therapist has stuck by me for so long he knows i don't have many people, i can make friends as long as i don't have to trust them which is not much use is it.
Therapy has obviously taught you alot which is good.
My partner is good to a certain extent but then no-one is perfect, if i even had a hope that i could make my life better it would help.
I feel a bit better in the knowledge that hospital is there if i really need it and keep it in my control the last time they talked me into going voluntary which i am glad i done because i think they were planning on admitting me either way as they kept saying we would really like you to go on a voluntary basis so that was enough. I didn't like being kept somewhere i couldn't leave i didn't feel i should have been there and i knew exactly what to say to get out again so that puts me of going, there are other places available but not for suicidal people as the supervision isn't constant.
I feel like i am going around in circles and going no where.
I am sorry about your cousin it must be hard to deal with that, but you seem to be doing really well or perhaps you like me appear to be.
My day was ok and i see my social worker tomorrow again, if i could only stay in an ok mood for a while then maybe i would have hope but anyway thats life. Thanks again, i hope all is well with you.

[Jaquta]

I didn't like being diagnosed with depression either.  In hindsight I think that just showed that I had much deeper psychological issues going on.  Most people probably don't care all that much.  They are able to accept the diagnosis and treatment and move on.
It is likely that the depression wont go away until you resolve some of your underlying issues.  My situation has been difficult for me to change and I still have periods of severe depression interspersed with periods of chronic low mood.
I think for the label, and symptoms, to go away you need to change your approach.
The illness will be affecting him too.  It is difficult for most people to understand when they have never been through it themselves.  Your partner could be angry because he feels vulnerable about not being able to help.  It sounds as though he has done a lot to help already though.

Starting from the beginning again is really exhausting but having said that I'm not sure stopping half way helps relieve the tension either.  Perhaps with good intervention it would be different.  My personal experience is that support never helped.  I think my T kind of made accessing any good help difficult though.  She had issues of her own.  I'm sure your support network would be different -better.

And your partner not being proactive doesn't help, does it?  Only causes more stress for you.  One thing I have learnt and that is that we need to take responsibility for ourselves.  We should ask for help if we need it but we should never expect others to do it for us.  Same as we shouldn't jeopardize our health by taking excess meds, etc because one day nobody will intervene.  We may only want help but due to circumstances may end up really damaging ourselves or dying.
It is our job to keep ourselves safe, nobody elses.

Me too, I think.  I look for ways to absolve myself of responsibility.  It's not the answer though and it is what keeps us stuck.  Nobody is going to rescue us, we have to help ourselves.
In psychology I think the term is called active-passivity.  We actively seek out others to solve our problems.  In my experience it rarely, if ever, works.

I can only really answer on a moment to moment basis.  This morning I feel OK.  Last night I was feeling a little down.  The ongoing lack of support is getting to me plus my uncle called last weekend which triggered me.  My cousin killed himself just before Christmas last year.  It hit just a little too close to home I think with method and how I was feeling.  I was reflecting on it again a bit.
I feel more skillful now.  That has got to be a good thing.  
My issues go back to early childhood so that means I have a lot of emotional developmental issues to address.  I was different.  I didn't have friends, etc.  Relationships are difficult for me.  I was incredibly insecure and self-conscious.
I think I am a stronger person now.  I think I see and understand more of the world now (although I think lack of insight may not have been such a bad thing either at least there wasn't this degree of emotional pain).
It's hard to say whether things are better or worse because the criteria are always changing.  I think life is worth preserving with though.  I think you have the potential to have a good quality life.  If you can view life as being any different then there is something there to work towards.  I try and believe that I can achieve that (the happy ever after) but I do try and keep it realistic, I can't expect life to be all roses.

Maybe you are stronger than me.  I think I fell into that deep, dark hole one too many times.  For me it felt as though others were trying to fill it in as fast as I could try and climb out.  I can't even remember when and why I started taking short courses of lorazepam.  I'm sure it came on the top of some crisis.  Probably for me too I felt stuck.  I wasn't able to go forward but neither was I able to go back.  I was dysfunctional and so wasn't able to make significant changes and I wasn't able to hurt myself.  I did that one time too many and it scared me (enough to make me not do it again).  I was also afraid that if I slipped up too badly that I would be sectioned again and given ect.  I was threatened with it during a previous admission.  That's pretty scary and confusing too.

I find exercise good for anxiety.  Also trying to do stuff that you enjoy seems to help.  Participating seems to create less space for thinking.  Thinking can be the problem.

Things sometimes get a little better on their own.  I think when we become distracted and ruminate less that things do improve.
For the most part though I would say that improvement only comes about through therapy.

You should trust your own feelings.  T's can and do get frustrated.  Try running it past him.  It's OK to clarify things.  You may even be surprised by his response.  Sometimes they are the most real conversations you will have in therapy.  

Once he accepts you for who you are and where you are at you will feel more comfortable with taking on more responsibility.  It is probably too much for you at this point.  Tell him how you feel.  Deep down he only wants what's best for you.  Tell him how pressured or frightened you feel by needing to take that responsibility.  These conversations will ultimately help you and will give him material to work with.

Keep plugging away at it and you will eventually notice changes.  You have probably learnt and changed a lot already.

There is that saying about making lemonade out of lemons.  Use opportunities for personal growth and development.  There is something to be learned everywhere.

Good luck!!  I hope you have an OK day.

[shaz853]

Its all very confusing but you make alot of sense, i don't think that consciously i create crisis to avoid the trauma work but maybe it scares me so much that i sub-consciously do it and you were right although i felt slightly better at the time yesterday its all here today again it builds up back again so quickly.
I don't like being diganosed with depression i don't want it and i don't know how to get rid of it i still don't want medication, i am frustrated that i feel like this now, i have tried talking to my partner and sometimes he is ok and other times he gets angry which makes it worse. The part regarding hospital thats what my social worker said yesterday that maybe i need to give them the control and be totally vunerable and allow people to help instead of fighting it and allow myself to hit the bottom and then start coming back up again.
My partner won't contact my therapist in a crisis because he is afraid that they will take me to hospital and doesn't like me being there although he did talk to my social worker this morning and he told her how bad it was.
I think i am constantly looking for a way out of this, i hope i have the strength to see it through.Can i ask do you feel better now? You seem to know alot about it and you are a great help to me so thankyou, it is an amazing feeling to listen to what you are saying knowing that someone understands how i feel. I do have really bad anxiety and i still refuse medication for that as well, i want to do this without medication. Today is not a good day either but i am trying to keep control but it takes very little to start me off. Is there any chance this will get better? A few weeks ago i got the feeling that my therapist was getting frustrated as well, could he be or was that just me thinking he was i got scared that he was going to give up on me, he told me i had to take more control of my life and make decisions which scared me more i was going to give up therapy then but i guess he was trying to help me take more control. I feel like this is all wrong i shouldn't feel like this and i am stuck like this, i am lucky in a way i have a lot of support and i should be glad but i just don't feel like that now. I will look online about the dbt courses thanks.