Can an anti fungal drug help my thyroid?

[dolphin27]

I have hashimotos for about 8 years now. My thyroid problem happened after living in a house with blak mold and having a baby.
I saw a new dr that beleives that I should go on an elimination diet and take antfungals to remove any fungus from my body. She also said that this could be causing my thyroid issues. Could this help it? Or, should I run and not waste my money.

Please Help!!!

[thyquestions]

I don't know about taking the antifungals, but my doctor said the exact same thing about mold being linked to Hashimoto's/Thyroid dysfunction.  I have already been on an elimination and non-inflammatory diet for months so diet isn't a factor, and I take a homeopathic remedy for mold/yeast, so I was told to reduce the mold content in my home and to get my adrenals back in shape.  My doctor has seen many patients (like me, w/borderline values) return to normal after addressing those.  

btw, my doctor is one of experts referenced by Mary Shomon.  

Black mold = very bad.  My best to you..  

[dolphin27]

How do you feel after the diet? I did it for 3 months last Summer and did not feel at all better. I spent way TOO much miney for supplements that did nothing for me. What are borderline values? My thyroid has been getting worse over the years and my medicine keeps going up and up. I am trying to do Synthroid/Cytomel combo. Does it really help?
If I do this and reduce the yeast, does my thyroid get better? I thought once you have it, your stuck with it? Please help!!!!

[thyquestions]

Well ... I would be the last person here to ask about the thyroid medication because I haven't taken any...  but I'll answer your other questions.

I was told on this forum that nothing could fix my thyroid, but all of my doctors have told me otherwise.  I have four independent doctors now, for different reasons, and they are all top-notch, very well-respected doctors - one being a world-renowned expert in the thyroid disorder field.  And I believe them, for what it's worth.  

I have borderline hypothyroid values. My TSH is a little high (but not out of range) and my FT3 and FT4 are a little low (but not out of range). Six months ago I tested positive for Hashimoto's, but later testing said negative.  

I feel better on the diet than not. I have a high gluten sensitivity, so gluten/wheat definitely has to be eliminated for me.  Plus I don't eat any processed sugar (only some fruit), meat (vegetarian), soy, nightshades, and I've limited my raw food intake as my digestive system is barely functioning. I have also removed fluoride from my diet (both water and from toothpaste) and Bisphenol-A.

Do I feel "bad" right now?  Yes. I'm starting on medical leave from work, and hoping for short-term disability so I can continue covering some of these costs.  The expense adds up, I agree.  

All I can say is, try not to panic. Take a look at your current situation - your test values, your symptoms, your diet, your lifestyle, your environment, your past exposure to things, any past injuries (whiplash?), and see what adds up.  Like the mold, or just the other day there was an article in the Philadelphia paper about a huge increase in thyroid cancer due to nuclear power plants.  As far as yeast, yes, systemic candida can also wreak havoc on our bodies.. and can mimic many "hypo" symptoms.

My philosophy is, get as educated as possible in what is going wrong, correct what you can to the best you can, and try to find the right resources/physicians who can help.  We all have unique situations, so nothing I'm going through could directly pertain to someone else.

My doctor (the expert guy) has a sign on his wall that says :
YOU are the doctor of your body.  
I am just a vehicle that can help you along your path.  

[LazyMoose]

Hypothyroid  occures from antibodies as in Hoshimotos disease, or can be the non disease form just called hypothyroid and in that case can be a symptom from something else stressing or infecting the body; other diseases, celiac, infections, child birth. The difference is having antibodies that make is an autoimmune disease. With all lab testing, there is a very slight possibility in human error.

Digestive fungals, bacterial overgrowth, candidas can start in the digestive tract and move internally throughout the body in both sexes. The thyroid is very fragile and can be temporarily infected. Google the candida saliva test, you spit in a glass of water first thing in the morning. It should float, if not, you have stuff you shouldnt have. Gluten, sugar, carbs feed bacterial overgrowth.

So you can still have Hoshis from antibodies while also having things like mold contributing to the symptoms.

[goolarra]

If your TSH is a bit on the high side, and your FT3 and FT4 are a bit on the low side, and you are about to start on medical leave because you are feeling "bad", don't you think it might be time to consider thyroid meds?  Just because your test results are "in range" does not mean that they are at optimum levels for you.  It sounds to me like you are hypo.  Everyone does not feel well in the bottom of the range, in fact many of us have to have FT4 around midrange and FT3 in the upper half to third of the range before feeling well.

[LazyMoose]

"Six months ago I tested positive for Hashimoto's, but later testing said negative."

-This is truly amazing and very enlightening to say the least. We would all love for you to share your before and after antibody lab results if you have copies. Please do.

Which one did you test positive for -TPOab, TgAb or both? and now 0 antibodies? What did the doctor say? If it was not a lab error, this is truly unheard of.

Interesting fact about synthetic T4, the fear of the cold war is what sprouted its need, as pigs for thyroid would be dead or near (like some of us). Sad but true.  

[goolarra]

Borderline values are TSH near the upper limit of the range (0.3-3.0) and FT3 and FT4 in the lower part of their ranges (these are lab specific, and you have to get them from your own lab report).  

Since you have Hashi's, your thyroid will get worse and worse over the years as the antibodies destroy your thyroid function.  Once the thyroid is effectively "dead", meds dosage usually stabilizes considerably.

If you have FT3, FT4 and TSH results, please post with your ranges, and members will help you interpret them.  A little Cytomel helps many people, if they do not convert T4 to T3 properly.  We'd have to see your labs to comment on that.

You are right...once you have antibodies, you have them for life.  If thyquestions's went away, I'd agree with Moose, labs DO make mistakes...I think I'd go for the tie-breaker test and toss the odd man out.

[thyquestions]

Not sure how to answer directly, instead of hijacking this thread (sorry Laurarice..)

TPOAb values were 10  (range: less than 35)
TgAb First test:       34  (range: less than 20)
TgAb Second test:  20   (two months later)

Granted, the values aren't 0, but my doctor said if I had Hashimoto's, the antibodies for TgAb would -not- decrease.  In fact, she ran another full thyroid panel test in December (along w/other hormones), and didn't even retest the antibodies.

Yes/No?  Are you a patient, or a doctor, or a specialist?  (just curious..)  

Anyway, my health story is more complicated and outside the scope of this forum. Fortunately I finally have a few great doctors now, and they know my test values and *all* of my symptoms. We are keeping a close eye on thyroid since it's obviously involved, but we have bigger fish frying in the pan first.

Thanks for your thoughts ...  

[punkin1515]

I am also on antifungals and have Graves??? Also exsposed to mold!!  

[LazyMoose]

"Hijacking" threads happens, but sometimes its for good info (so yes, sorry Laurarice).

Antibody testing is confusing, there are many ranges used by different labs. If you have antibodies at all, Its really about how much you have,  as some people have zero antibodies on labs.

You never had much antibodies to begin with, not so commonly seen. Most of us have elevated antibodies in the hundreds, some in the thousands. And thyroid antibodies do go up as well as down, they can fluctuate. How they ever arrived at the 'line' on antibodies tests, and there are different versions, is information that I have not seen.

So, no you aren't at 0 which is what I was wondering, but your case is still very interesting, as you 'hover' around the minimum.

If I had labs like yours, I would like to believe the autoimmune was gone, but, in all truthfulness, and taking a small percentage of error in all lab tests, I wouldn't necessarily think so. Keeping an eye on free T's and symptoms is still important. Another antibody test in the future would be interesting.

Ive had hypothyroid  for a good part of my life (decades) and Hoshi. I'm not a doctor, but have learned  more than some of my past doctors know about Hoshi, that really blows my mind. They must not spend much time on that section in med school.

Thanks for sharing. Look at it this way as far as antibodies go, your special!   : )

[dolphin27]

Ok, I have been diagnosed with hashis over and over. Everytime I get those antibodies tested they sat the same thing "You have Hashimotos". I am on 150 Synthroid and 5 twice a day of Cytomel. Ok here are some results:

6-19-09 Thyroid Peroxidase Autoabs         351 H  (<35)
            Thyroglobulin Autotabs                 <20     (<40)
3-20-09 Anti-thyroid ABS TPO                   542     (0 to 34)
            antithyroglobulin                           <20     (0 to 40)

6-17-08 Thyroid Peroxidase TPO             50   (0-3.9)
My tests done on 12-5-09 were:

Free T3           2.85  (2.77-5.27)
Free T4           0.88  (.78-2.19)
TSH                1.78  (.46-4.68)

I was bumped up on Cytomel to twice a day at that point.
I did labs on Friday and have not received results yet.

I am sure I have hashimotos. Both of my parents suffer the same disease too.
I am asking about the ani fungal because I had a NEW doctor tell me that could be the root of my problem. The thing is though, she is expensive! I donot feel well and am so tired of the body aches and brain fog. I just wondered if anyone heard that it could all be caused from candida.

Please help, I am seeing a new endo in March so maybe he has more insight!!!!

[goolarra]

Once you test positive for antibodies, you don't need to have them retested over and over.  If you have them, you have them for life, except if your thyroid is removed.  Once it is completely "dead", antibodies will go into remission.

Was your Synthroid increased after the 12/5 labs also?  Both FT3 and FT4 are too low.  You are undermedicated.  Is the Cytomel necessary?  Hard to say at this point with your FT4 so low.  But, you definitely need an increase in Synthroid.

It will be interesting to see your new results and if your doctor plans to increase your dose.

[dolphin27]

No, my Synthroid was not increased. I slip into hyper easily so she decided not to.
I am seeing a brand new endo in March because I have relocated to Denver. I am excited with all the new choices of drs here.... I came from a small town.
Regarding my thyroid, I asked to try Cytomel because I am still having a lot of hypo symptoms. I am even trying to get them to look at my adrenals too. I did an 8am cortisol test and it was 12. I have other symptoms going on such as PMS difficulties, so of course I am labeled PCOS. I have done a lot of reading though and found out bad adrenals can cause that too.
I am feeling pretty achey, so I hope my results reflect that. I will post next week when I get them.

[dolphin27]

I am sorry here is the range for the cortisol:

12 at 8am (4.3-22.4) ug/dL

I have heard that it should be around 20.

[dolphin27]

How did you find out you needed antifungals?

[dolphin27]

I got my test results from January 29th:

Free T4    1.2   (.8 - 1.8)
Free T3    340  (230-420)
TSH          0.3  (.46-4.68)

The endo told me she wants to lower my dose from 150 to 137. Says my TSH is too high.
What do you think?

[goolarra]

The currently accepted range for TSH, according to AACE, is 0.3-3.0, so you are borderline LOW according to that.  However, that doesn't bother me at all.  TSH is the least important of these tests.  FT4 is at the 40th percentile of the range, and the recommendation here (rule of thumb) is 50th percentile MOL.  FT3 is 58th percentile, and recommendation here is upper half to upper third of the range.  Once again those are just guidelines, and you have to find where you feel best and then make those levels your personal goal.

Your endo is only looking at TSH...she may be ordering the other tests, but she sure isn't paying a lot of attention to them.  Are you currently on Cytomel, too?  I think your labs look fine, and I would base any increase or decrease at this point on symptoms.  If you have any hypo symptoms left, then there's some room in your labs for a slight increase.  If you start have hyper symptoms, then a slight decrease is in order.  Which way do you think you're leaning?

[foreverlostmom]

I have asked doctors about the yeast issue a few times but they are so convinced it is not a true health matter.  I need to do some more diggin on this as I believe I could have a problem with this between acne and prior yeast infections I don't get them often anymore but used to all the time.   But I am wondering if it could be that from the thyroid not working properly that the body is not able to regulat the yeast??  tonights homework

[foreverlostmom]

Effect of candida on the endocrine system

Once candida has overgrown, it can bind to hormones changing their ;key' shape so they are unable to fit 'lock' in their receptor. This effectively inactivates the circulating hormone, making all endocrine problems ten times worse.

What is the APICH syndrome?

Autoimmune Polyendocrinopathy Immune-dysregulation Candidosis Hypersensitivity syndrome. This syndrome was identified in the USA in the 1980s as an endocrine disorder afflicting all really difficult-to-treat candida patients. It is far more prevalent in females. (We covered the details in our Factsheet 005, but note that symptoms include ovarian, thyroid and adrenal insufficiency


http://www.candida-society.org/ncs/digestv1i3.htm


http://foodsmatter.com/candida/general/articles/pmstockdale_pers_hist.html

[foreverlostmom]

There are some fabulous tests available now, we particularly like Great Smokies' 28 day saliva test, Female Hormone Profile. The results are given in an easy-to-understand format.

[dolphin27]

Thanks for the info! I actually did the salivia spit in a cup test. Mine came back with strings which means a yeast overgrowth. I have no idea why I ended up with Hashimotos, but it did occur in me after a year of living in black mold and taking way too many antibiotics. I am going to try the anti fungal and low glycemic and see if it helps.
I also suffer from PCOS and I know the diet helps that. The dr I am going to try this with is very big on the desiccated thyroid which I really want to try. Anything helps, right?

[dolphin27]

I have been feeling achey and irritable lately and was surprised that I was low on the TSH. I though for sure I would need more. But, I have also been suffering from a sinus infection and allergies. Its so frustrating! I am on 5 of Cytomel twice a day. Maybe I need more of that???
My test result from December for T3 was:
Free T3           2.85  (2.77-5.27) and the endo bumped me to twice a day.

My result now is:
Free T3    340  (230-420)  How do you tell when they did it a different way. Has it gotten better? Should I ask for a higher dose of T3?

Thanks for your help!!!

[goolarra]

In December, your FT3 was 2.85 on a range of 2.77 to 5.27.  To figure your percentile, subtract the lower end of the range from the upper limit of the range:

5.27 - 2.77 = 2.5

Next, subtract the lower limit of the range from your result:

2.85 - 2.77 = 0.08

Then divide the second result by the first result:

0.08 / 2.5 = 0.032 and multiply by 100 to get the percentile...3.2.

You can see that you were on the very bottom of the range in December.

You can follow the same steps with your current range and see that you are now at 58%.  So, your FT3 has improved A LOT.  

Don't let the numbers scare you...it's often just easier to think about them in general terms.  The recommendation for FT3 is upper half to upper third of the range.  Anything above 50% is the upper half, so you're there, but you still have quite a way to go to get to 100%, so you have some room for an increase.

So, your FT4 (40%) is a little below half, which means it could stand a little nudge up to get it to around 50%.  Your FT3 still has some room to move up.  I would increase your T4 meds very slightly (perhaps 12.5 mcg per day??? - you can do this by alternating 150/175 mcg tablets).  This should bring up both your FT3 and FT4.  Then, I'd test again in four to five weeks to see if another slight tweak might be need in either your T4 meds or your Cytomel.  It's not at all unusual for people on meds, and especially when T3 meds are involved, to have TSH suppressed to very low, or even below, range.  Of course, I'm not a doctor, and you have to find a way to convince your doctor of this or find a doctor who understands thyroid better.  With your labs and some lingering hypo symptoms, I don't think you're going to feel any better with a decrease (worse?).

[LazyMoose]

The morning spit tests results can correlate with what you ate for supper. So you can find out what affects it the most. Gluten, sugar, greasy foods, carbs ect. Then starve it while taking what ever you need to make it go away. If you just eat green veggies and skinless roasted chicken for a few days, the test results will temporally improve - interesting to see it happen.