Raw thyroid: Any drawbacks?

[dooright]

What are the drawbacks to taking reasonable amounts of dessicated thyroid, such as from Natural Sources?

I'm a male, 60. My TSH is 5.5 and I have some of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. I have tried taking one or less capsules per day of Natural Sources raw thyroid and it seems to help. But I would like to know if I might be harming myself in the long run.

Is there an increasing tolerance level? Is there a harmful effect on what little natural thyroid production I presently have? Once I start will I have to use it for life? Are there better OTC products?

Can I rely on what "feels" like the right dosage?

[VolkovaP]

Hi, The brand you take also has adrenal gland and this is not suitable for everyone on the long run. If you need raw thyroid, then nothing else should be on the ingrediënt list.

[Barb135]

I'm not sure who you're addressing...most of the previous posters are no longer active on the forum at this time and it's unlikely you'll get a response from anyone.

[gimel]

From those results I'd say that the Free T4 is okay, but the Free T3 is very low.  Just being anywhere within the range does to mean it is adequate for him.  

We seem to do best when FT4 is at mid-range, at minimum, and Free T3 is in the upper third of the range, or as needed to relieve symptoms.  The lower Free T3 is indicative of inadequate conversion of T4 to T3.  Conversion can be adversely affected by several things, including ferritin and selenium levels.  I think he should request to be tested for both of those and then supplement as needed to optimize.  Ferritin should be about 70 minimum.  I don't know of an optimal level for selenium, so I would just make sure it is not in the very low end of its range.  

Also I suggest that he should test for Vitamin D, and B12.  D should be about 55 and B12 in the very upper end of its range.  

So I think he should get those tests done and then supplement as needed to optimize and then see what effect that has on his symptoms.  

[MaxBro]

My dad has been having hypothyroid symptoms for the past several years with the major complaint of fatigue. Just recently, thyroid tests were done and the came back normal again like always. He is also a type 2 diabetic.
The results were as follows:

TSH 1.27 range 0.50-5.0
T4 1.23 range 0.7-1.85
T3 1.46 range 1.45-3.48

Could you or any other member help us interpret these results?

[gimel]

Many hypo patients taking large doses of T4 med find that their body is not adequately converting the T4 to T3.  Since Free T3 has been shown to correlate best with hypo symptoms,  it may be that your Free T3 level is too low in the range, due to inadequate conversion of T4 to T3.  Please post your thyroid related test results and reference ranges shown on the lab report.  

[mrshaffly]

Great thread. As someone who's been hypo/hashi's for 20 years, AND on 300mcg of levothroid, I got here because I was looking for an alternative to artificial hormones that clearly aren't working. Even at 300mcg, I'm sitting here dazed, sleepy, exhausted, depressed, and barely able to function mentally. Anything that could help, doesn't. I tank up on coffee, Spark, B-12, and green tea just to make it through the day. I want to try the natural thyroid. Anything that might help. Anything.

[mrshaffly]

Great thread. As someone who's been hypo/hashi's for 20 years, AND on 300mcg of levothroid, I got here because I was looking for an alternative to artificial hormones that clearly aren't working. Even at 300mcg, I'm sitting here dazed, sleepy, exhausted, depressed, and barely able to function mentally. Anything that could help, doesn't. I tank up on coffee, Spark, B-12, and green tea just to make it through the day. I want to try the natural thyroid. Anything that might help. Anything.

[wellnessgal]

Depending on the lab, the labs use different levels & ranges according to geographical location, don't believe it? Check out http://****************.com or what America's favorite pharmacist Suzy Cohen has to say on you tube. Also check out Dr. Brownstein. Check out the 700 club Suzy Cohen on youtube, she was a guest, enlightening stuff. If your doc only goes by your FREE T4 & gives you a script, find another doctor!!! There's much more to it than T4 & TSH...

[ronni500]

Hi, I just wanted to reply & maybe head u in the right directions. Are u on Facebook? If so I am on a site called"Crazy HPTH." It's a site for people with thyroid problems & people that have had parathyroid problems removed. They would probably help u if u had never had ur thyroid removed & were just having problems with adjusting with medicine.Crazy Hpth is a closed site on Facebook. But they are very helpfull. Hope u try it

[Barb135]

"Get tested, due diligence research and know all your symptoms because Synthroid just Does Not work in the end."

I agree that one must get tested and do plenty of research of to find the best options.  I not, however, agree that Synthroid "just does not work"... because there are a lot of people who take Synthroid and do just fine with it.  Those are the people you don't find on web sites like this.  

[adoptogencure]

Hi
In my experience, my Mom died from Thyroid Cancer which started out with untreated nodules.  I find myself with a normal TSH and other 'normal' tests but with Hypo symptoms.  Due diligence, 'know thyself" and do not give up.  My Endo is good for tests and a sonogram that is about it.  Synthroid eventually fails all who take it because the output of T4 will eventually cause too much reverse T3 and what we need it T3 to feed ALL systems not just the Thyroid...so even if the Thryoid and Pit are good the whole Hypothamus, Pit Axis could be off....or one could have an issue converting T4 to T3 properly.  Cytomel can be good but once again like Synthroid needs constant adjustment.  Taking supplements that support Thryoid, T4 and T3 function like Guggul, Ashwaganda, Selenium, Iodine and Iodide (need both), tyrosine, coconut oil.  One can also check into Estrogen Dominance, insulin resistance and supplement accordingly.  One of the most important things is to check your Liver.  Do a liver cleanse ---many issues can come from the liver being out of balance and gut issues.  Do you have IBS, constipation, low body temperature---all related to inflammation issues that could cause the thryoid to get out of wack or the thryoid may be causing them.

Get on iherb do some research like Brownstein, Wright, Mercola etc.  There are plenty of websites.  Get tested, due diligence research and know all your symptoms because Synthroid just Does Not work in the end. Nourishing your thyroid is the permanent solution.  Start small then increase until symptoms start to subside.  Good luck and peace and good health to all

[fmulhare]

You might want to read the following:

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2012/02/21/popular-over-the-counter-thyroid-supplements-contain-actual-thyroid-hormone.htm

[veronq]

You got bleeped?

I am over an hour away from Pikesville. I think I’ll start with the interview questions with local doctors. I feel fully prepared. :) You helped me to understanding Hashi’s/drugs/tests better than I thought possible. You can’t imagine how confused I was. Thank you so much.

[goolarra]

Oh, gee, I wasn't swearing and I got bleeped!  You get the idea on the site.

Those are the only ones in PA.  How about Baltimore or Pikesville, MD?

When I was looking for en endo, I wrote up a questionnaire that I faxed to all the endos in the area in my health plan.  It was multiple guess so it wouldn't take up much of their time.  It's also possible to call the office, and tell whoever answers that you'd like to ask someone a few questions about the doctor's practice before you make an appointment.  That will usually get you to a nurse.

One good question is which tests the doctor customarily orders for hypo patients.  Of course, you want to hear FT3, FT4 and TSH.  If you hear TSH only...run!  

Another is which meds the doctor is open to using.  Ideally, T4 only therapy, synthetic T3/T4 combos and desiccated is what you want to hear.  Practically speaking, very few doctors prescribe all three.  They tend to fall into the synthetic-only or desiccated-only camps.  If your medical market is limited, you might have to consider a doctor the doesn't like to prescribe desiccated.  I live in a small, rural area, and this was one concession I had to make.  If I hadn't, I'd be driving 2-3 hours to see my endo.

Those two questions will weed out the worst of the worst, but you can ask anything else that's important to you.  For example, you might ask if the doctor will treat Hashi's in the presence of symptoms before labs go out of range.  Some flat out won't.  

      

[veronq]

Thank you Goolarra! These places are between 2 and 5 hours away from me. I live near Gettysburg. If none of the recommended doctors are closer, interview help would be much appreciated.

[goolarra]

I know members have had good luck with healthcheckusa (*******).  They will send you to a local lab for the draw and send the results (very promptly) to you.  If they're not available in your area, there are lots of others online, but I have not heard reports about them.

Gimel keeps a list (of which I have a copy) of doctors recommended by forum members.  Are you close enough to Erie, Westchester or Tunkhannock?  The last, I believe, is an exceptional thyroid doctor.  If so, I'll PM you names and numbers.  It's frowned upon to post doctors' names on the open forum.

Barring that, remind me to tell you about interviewing them over the phone before making an appointment.

Being my own advocate and this forum helped me tremendously.  I have a lot of wonderful people to thank.

[veronq]

I am most grateful for your obsession. :) Oh my, 18 months of very hypo and a year of med adjustments is a lot to endure. So glad you found your way to better health. Being your own advocate had to be a big part of it.

It would be great to find a doctor who is willing to look at the big picture and offer more than one treatment. Doctors will complain when patients don’t take an interest in their own health, but when you ask too many questions they become ruffled too. Can you suggest how I might find a doctor and recommend a lab for the self-ordered tests? I live in southcentral Pennsylvania.

[goolarra]

If your endo won't do the FT3 test, you can order it online.  Self-ordered tests are also self-pay...about $85 for a full thyroid panel.  A doctor isn't involved, and the results are sent directly to you.  

I've never done well on drugs, either.  I'm hyper-sensitive to just about everything.  I think the big difference for me when it came to thyroid was that I couldn't continue with the symptoms I had.  I was almost narcoleptic.  If I sat down, I was asleep in minutes.  I was hypo (very) for about 18 months before anyone thought about testing my thyroid.  I had a tough time the first year on meds, mostly due to an inept PCP, who had no clue how to dose, but I also knew I couldn't go back.  

Take the time to find a good doctor you can work with.  I was so down on doctors when I went looking for my endo that I was fully prepared to storm out of his office, telling him what an idot he was and slamming the door behind me!  I was very pleasantly surprised.

I don't know how your endo could tell you that you were on the correct dose when it didn't change your labs at all.  Perhaps you should think about doctor shopping.

Well, you know, you get interested in a subject, and suddenly it becomes an obsession!  LOL  It is fascinating...

  

  

[veronq]

I will see if my endo will do the FT3 test. My heart raced when you said the aging thing might not be permanent. How wonderful that would be.

I never did well on drugs, such as antidepressants, so I fear to expect anything but side effects or to make things worse, as you said.

I also use Syngenic B12 cream, which is supposed to be utilized better too.

You are so kind and patient to discuss all of this with me. I went for a little walk a while ago and thought about how a stranger would help so much.

[goolarra]

As gimel mentioned above, FT3 is really the most important of the tests.  We have a tendency to say that a lot...can you hear the drumbeat???  LOL  

So, when you were on Synthroid, your FT4 level never changed.  It was 1.0 before meds, 1.0 on meds and 1.1 after meds.  In order for you to feel better, you have to raise your FT3 and FT4 levels.  It's little wonder your symptoms never improved.  That 50 mcg was doing absolutely nothing for you.  

Fifty mcg is really just a starter dose.  It obviously did absolutely nothing to improve your lab profile.  

That rapid "aging" may have more than you think to do with being a little hypo, and it might not be a permanent state of affairs.  A lot of us had symptoms that we never thought could possibly be hypo symptoms...until they went away on meds.  

By "psychological block", do you mean the feeling that you're making things worse by treating?  

Oh my, I just did a whole lot of research on magnesium and never even encountered anything about magnesium chloride or creams.  I just had a quick look, and it's supposted to deliver elemental Mg very well, so i would think it's a good one.  Apparently, applied to the skin, it's absorbed much better than through the gut.        

[veronq]

On Synthroid, 50 mcg, my FT4 was 1.0 (range 0.6–1.6) and TSH was 1.31 (range 0.30–5.00). I don’t think T3 was ever checked.

If my TPO hadn’t been checked in September (503), I wouldn’t know I definitely have Hashi’s and I don’t know how long I had antibodies, but probably a long time. Yes, I am tired of the symptoms, especially the bad memory. I don’t know if this is part of Hashi's, but I have aged rapidly in the past 4 years. The little injuries you describe make sense. Logic tells me I need the drug, but I don’t know how to overcome the psychological block ... It's good to know that treating or not treating doesn't change the risk of other autoimmunes.

I am using Syngenic activated ionic magnesium cream (magnesium chloride). Is that good?

Thank you for all your help!

[goolarra]

"While I was on Synthroid, my TSH was the same as it was in September. My endo said that shows it was the right dose, which I really don't understand."  Neither do I.  That does not make a lot of sense.  What was your FT4 while on meds?  Did it change?  Would you post some of your medicated labs?  How much Synthroid were you on?

Once we have one autoimmune disease, we are more likely to develop another than the general population is to get their first.  However, treated or not, the antibodies are still there.  So, treating or not treating neither decreases nor increases the possibilty of getting another autoimmune.

Symptom relief is what's important.  It sounds like you've been living with them long enough!  

"Do you think it is harmful to wait until labs are out of range to begin treatment?"  Tough question because of all the variables...the speed of the progression of the disease, symptoms, etc.  

Though terribly unpleasant, I don't think it's harmful to be even "very" hypo for a short period of time in most cases.  However, being slightly hypo for a very long period of time definitely takes its toll on your body.  While hypo, we accumulate a lot of "little" injuries that take time to heal once we get hormone levels back on track, and putting up with symptoms can lengthen that whole healing process.  That might be part of why "I...did not feel any better on the drug in the 3 months I took it."  (And that's IF your meds were, in fact, ever properly adjusted for you.)  

Make sure your magnesium is citrate or glycinate (or almost anything but oxide).

I totally agree that Hashi's, reproductive hormone inbalance, menopause and aging can all have similar symptoms, and it's very difficult to separate them.

Your symptoms are your body telling you that something is wrong.  They're more important than any lab work you could have done.      

[veronq]

Thanks Goolarra. I was off of Synthroid for about a month when I got my last labs. While I was on Synthroid, my TSH was the same as it was in September. My endo said that shows it was the right dose, which I really don't understand. Do you think it is harmful to wait until labs are out of range to begin treatment? I have been living with the symptoms so long that I can endure, but I don’t want to be foolish either; I know that this could lead to other autoimmune issues.

I try to eat whole foods, have gone gluten-free, and avoid sugar. I have found that for my joint pain—mostly in my hips—yoga is a great help. My instructor said that women carry their stress in their hip joints, and it is important to make room in the joint by proper stretching/movement. I take magnesium, B12, multi with herbs, and fermented cod liver oil. I think all of these changes have helped.

Just a final thought. Without "normal" health to compare, I think it is sometimes hard to distinguish whether our symptoms are from Hashimoto, menopause (or hormones in younger women), or aging.

[goolarra]

How long after stopping Synthroid were your second set of labs?  How much Synthroid were you taking?

We can have antibodies for years, or even decades, before they do enough damage for our labs to go out of range and/or for symptoms to appear.  So, the fact that your labs stayed in range between your postpartum thyroiditis and now isn't entirely unusual.  

As you said, the "side effects" ouf Synthroid are mostly the result of inept practitioners dosing improperly.  However, an educated patient who seeks out a responsive doctor willing to work WITH him/her, can achieve health with conventional approaches.  

[veronq]

Thanks so much Gimel. In the last post, I meant to thank you all for the helpful comments through this thread. Over time, you recognize responsible advice.

I don’t think I ever had my T3 tested. I have had 2 endocrinologists over the years; the first one left his practice for medical reasons. After I had my daughter in 1999, I was hyper, then hypo, then stabilized, and I have nodules, the largest of which was biopsied and was okay. I was told that I would eventually have Hashimoto disease. Over these 13 years, my TSH and FT4 have been relatively the same. Here are my numbers before Synthroid (September 2012):

TSH: 1.31 (range 0.30–5.00)
FT4: 1.0 (range 0.6–1.6)

After stopping Synthroid (February 2013):
TSH: 1.78
FT4: 1.1
range the same.

It seems I have always had symptoms: at least mild depression, low blood pressure, brain fog, constipation, difficulty losing weight, and cold. I am 54, by the way, and 4 years past menopause.

I was struck by something I read from a doctor who believes in treating the whole patient. He said:

“People who have had terrible childhood experiences (sexual abuse, physical abuse, personal tragedies etc) for whatever reason have altered thyroid metabolism. They are more complex to treat. They are different from everyone else biochemically and pharmacologically. The blame for most of their residual difficulties is not with their brains and minds but with their chemistry. I believe also other areas of their biochemistry are not normal. I don't think this has been generally recognized yet.”

From: http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/david-derry.htm

I strongly believe this to be true. I had a difficult childhood and have always had Hashimoto tendencies, if you know what I mean (depressed, low blood pressure, panic attacks, constipation, cold …). I know I speak for many when I say that I wish more doctors treated the whole person.

… I don’t understand why my numbers remained within range all these 13 years, and I’m afraid of going on the drug before I need to or possibly making it worse. Maybe I risk damage by waiting, but I think this has become a psychological hurtle for me. I appreciate your advice, Gimel, and I will take it. Any other comments would be most appreciated.