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Thyroid Nodule enlargement. Found some cysts in nodes.

Good afternoon,

I recently had an ultrasound done a few days ago. These are my results below. The physician who saw me referred me to a endocrinologist specialist for the first week of May (first available appointment) I am bit concern as to what could be the cause. I recently had an HIV fear from a potential exposure but I've tested negative at 81 days (4th generation duo) It's a few days from conclusive but I think that's pretty much ruled out to be honest. Unless someone says otherwise. Would my results below be a concern?

FINDINGS:
     In the upper pole of the right thyroid lobe, there is a colloid cyst,
     measuring 2 x 3 x 3 mm. In the inferior pole, there is a suboptimally seen
     solid nodule which measures 1.1 x 0.6 x 0.7 cm. A chain of lymph nodes is
     seen in the area of pain in the upper portion of the right neck, the
     largest measuring 2 cm in length by 0.6 x 0.7 cm.

     Left thyroid lobe contains a nodule in the midportion which is solid but
     with some peripheral cysts, measuring 1.3 x 0.7 cm. Colloid cysts are noted
     as well. In the submandibular region of the left neck, prominent lymph
     nodes are seen, the largest measuring 7 x 4 x 8 mm.
10 Responses
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649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
Oh my... your doctor couldn't be more wrong.  Hashimoto's is the # 1  cause of hypothyroidism in the developed world and although some consider it "rare", it's really not that rare.  Although it's more prevalent in women, it's not gender-specific, so men can get it just as well.  They are also equally subject to the resulting hypothyroidism.  Just like women, men can have Hashimoto's for years before labs actually go out of range.  

Your doctor is obviously, no well versed in thyroid care, since he doesn't understand that Free T4 and Free T3 must be at a level that's right for each individual and that TSH is only an indicator and should never be used as the sole diagnostic for a thyroid condition.  Doctors in his category typically, keep their patients ill due to inadequate testing/treatment.

If I were in your situation and had a choice, I'd find a different doctor before it was time to retest again because this one will obviously not test beyond the TSH unless/until it goes out of range and then the most you're likely to get is Free T4.  By then, symptoms may have gotten considerably worse and you may feel quite ill.  
Helpful - 0
649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
Yes, I agree if the lump is a lipoma there would be nothing to be done with it.  At this point, it would be best to move on with the reminder to have another ultrasound in 6 months to check on the lump just to be sure it hasn't grown or changed in any way.

I would recommend that prior to the ultrasound in 6 months, you also have blood work done and insist that your doctor order Free T4 and Free T3, with the inevitable TSH.  I'd also ask for thyroid antibodies to rule out Hashimoto's, for sure.   Hashimoto's can be present for years/decades before it does enough damage to the thyroid to prevent it from producing adequate thyroid hormones.  Nodules are also very common with Hashimoto's, so in my opinion, it should be confirmed or ruled out.  If your doctor refused to order the tests, I'd consider a second opinion.
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1 Comments
Good afternoon Barb135,

Thank you for your response. I've sent a message to my primary physician and this is the response I received when I requested further testing.

Doctor: All of the tests that you are asking related to the TSH.  TSH being normal it is unlikely that any of those would be abnormal.  We typically do not check men for Hashimoto's that is it is extremely rare.  My recommendation is that we start by checking a TSH as the pituitary would be intimately connected to the thyroid and its abnormalities actually the way we begin thyroid investigations.

I have not responded yet. I wanted to get your opinion on his response first.

Thank you once again Barb135.
Avatar universal
Good afternoon Barb135,

I was seen by the endocrinologist this morning and he pretty much told me that his best quess was "Lipoma"  a fatty lump is what he described it. He said there's no treatment to it and he recommended a follow up ultrasound in 6 months to see if it's growing or not.     I told him that it feels uncomfortable at times but unfortunately I cannot have it removed unless its becoming life threatening. It would be considered an elective surgery at this point :(. He also said that surgery at this point would be more harmful than helpful. All my bloodwork checks outs based on my results I have stated above this post. When he felt the lump on the right side of the neck, he said that it doesnt feel like a swollen thyroid because of where its swollen. The bump was too high in my neck area to be the thyroid (according to the doctor). I was told that in the future I can develop more lipomas (or not). At this point I quess I could say I feel somewhat of a relief but still uncertain. If its indeed lipoma then I should work towards in moving on and put this behind me until my next ultrasound. What are your thoughts on this Barb135.

Thank you for all of your help.
Helpful - 0
649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
As noted, cystic nodules have very low suspicion for cancer, plus the sizes are very small and it would be extremely difficult to get good samples at biopsy.  Biopsy is, typically, not done on anything smaller than 2 cm if the characteristics are right, though under "some" circumstances, biopsy will be done at 1 cm, but guidelines state 2 cm.  Your nodules don't meet the criteria for biopsy at this time and the person doing the biopsy has every right to overrule your primary doctor.

I suggest you try to get the antibody tests done to determine if you have Hashimoto's as discussed above.
Helpful - 0
649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
That's about what I anticipated and confirms what I told you about the TSH w/reflex - if TSH were abnormal T4 levels would be checked, but since it was normal, nothing further was done.

They are also correct in that TSH is released in response to low T4 and will be suppressed by too much T4 but that's not the whole picture, by any means.  There are many times in which TSH is not an accurate marker for T4/T3 levels.

TSH can also be low (normal) under other circumstances even if one has hypothyroidism.  It's up to you whether or not you want to pursue this further as you haven't really said if you have symptoms of hypothyroidism.  I'll be more than happy to explain further if you want to continue to discuss it with this doctor; however, he seems rather determined that TSH is the best/only test he is going to order at this time.  The fact that he ordered "TSH w/reflex T4" in the first place tells me he's not a good thyroid doctor and you might have better luck with the endo on May 3.    
Helpful - 0
6 Comments
Good morning Barb135,

I will be requesting the additional testing you have mentioned. Depending what they see on my biopsy, that's when I will be asking for the T4/T3 free lab work. The symptoms that I have experienced seems like the were mirroring an STD/STI. First week of March I had some upper back pain that lasted about a week. 2 night sweats that I specifically remember having on March 5th & 6th. I felt very fatigue for a week right after my night sweats. I would have a fullness feeling in my stomach even after eating small portions. I had some weight loss when I developed the swollen lymph node on my right side on the neck (march 9th) I lost about 10-12 pounds since. Weight loss has stopped when my I noticed my right thyroid swollen, which i noticed around anywhere between April 4th - April 11th. All of this started from what I thought was a potential exposure I had on January 15th. I tested up to 91 days and all of negative. So that pretty much rules out STD's/STI's (i hope) I've looked up the symptoms for Hypothyroidism and it doesn't seem like my symptoms match the description to it (could be wrong). It seems like right now I am at halt until I have my biopsy done. I will be leaving the country on April 24th and coming back on April 30th. Even though I feel that my physician doesn't feel the need to test (Free T4/T3) I will be requesting these to be done regardless. I rather be safe to over test than sorry to not test enough.
I forgot to ask if my swollen lymph nodes on the same side where my thyroid is swollen, is it a different issue/concern or are they connected to the same problem that I am having.

Thank you
I forgot to mention if my swollen lymph node on my neck (same side as my swollen thyroid) would they be related to the same issue we are discussing about. Also, would it matter as far as which came first. My lymph node was swollen first...then about 4 to 5 weeks after. My thyroid became swollen.
It's hard to say if the lymph node swelling is related to thyroid issue; it depends on the problem with thyroid.   I don't mean to be wishy washy; it's just not possible to say for sure.  And no, if they're related it probably wouldn't matter which came first, but most likely, the thyroid would have come first.  i'm sorry, but lymph nodes are really not my area of expertise.  I just know that they help carry waste from the body and sometimes they involved when something goes wrong with other organs.  

Since it doesn't appear that you have symptoms of a thyroid malfunction, it would seem safe to wait for further testing until you see the endo in May, since that's only a couple of weeks away.

I will try to answer questions you might have though.  I'll try to do some more research regarding the lymph nodes and see what I can find.
I appreciate your response Barb135, I really do.  I will post my update shortly after my biopsy and my appointment with my endocrinologist.  Hopefully I will have a definite answer as to what is going on with me :(  

Thank you Barb135
Good morning Barb135,

Yesterday was my biopsy appointment and unfortunately for me. They refused to do it. Even though my primary physician requested the appointment. This is what they updated my FollowMyHealth account with. Please let me know what is your opinion on this and if possible.
What would you recommend as far as the next step as to finding out "why" I have these lumps on my neck. They did an ultrasound before
the doctor came in and told me that it was not necessary to do the biopsy. It's just weird to me because my primary requested the biopsy...
and the doctor that was suppose to perform the biopsy is contradicting my primary physician on his findings. Who to believe? this is stressful.

Findings:
     The posterior mid right thyroid lobe nodule is isoechoic and contains small
     internal cystic spaces. This measures approximately 10 x 8 mm.

     The posterior mid left thyroid lobe nodule is isoechoic and contains small
     internal cystic spaces and measures approximately 12 x 8 mm.

     IMPRESSION:
     Similar appearing nodules at the posterior aspect of each thyroid lobe
     containing small internal cystic spaces. These nodules have a very low
     suspicion for malignancy. As these do not meet criteria for biopsy, the
     biopsy was aborted. These results were discussed with the patient.

     Consider a follow-up study for stability in 6-12 months
649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
You certainly don't sound like a dummy... This is a very delicate issue because it's hard to question our doctors without abusing their ego.  Some doctors won't mind and will stop and explain things, but others (probably most) will become offended right away.  There's no way you can know which category your doctor is going to fall into or the reaction you'll get...

About all you can do is tell them that from what you've read, the TSH w/Reflex T4 is outdated and that TSH is not adequate for measuring thyroid function since it's not actually a thyroid hormone.  For the most accurate information, they need to order Free T4 and Free T3 for thyroid function and the antibody tests to determine if you have Hashimoto's.  Then ask them to please order these tests for you. You can also list the tests if you like in order to make sure they understand what you want.

You should be prepared for them to deny you the lab order for the tests.  Many doctors will refuse to order these tests - the doctor that diagnosed me refused to order Free T3 and the only reason my Free T4 got analyzed is because my TSH level was at 55.5 so there was no doubt I was hypo... He also refused to order the antibody tests because he said it was a "waste" because the treatment wouldn't change.  

Since you're having the biopsy, the antibody tests might not be that important right now, so you might want to pick your battles.  
Helpful - 0
2 Comments
Good afternoon Barb135,

I've sent a message to physician regarding the Free T4 and Free T3 test. I'm waiting on a response to see what he says on that. I also have an appointment that is scheduled on May 3rd to see an endocrinologist (a day after my biopsy) I am not quite sure what is the endocrinologist appointment for. Not sure if it ties into my biopsy that I am having done. I appreciate your responses on my post. It has been very helpful on these past couple of days.
This is the response I've received so far. Please read below.

The TSH reflex means that if the TSH test were to be abnormal it would automatically check T4 levels.

you are correct in that TSH is a pituitary hormone, however it is released in response to low T4 in the body and will be suppressed by too much t4 of it in the body.

it is a pretty sensitive marker for T4 and t3 levels in the body. I usually wouldn't check it unless there were some obvious symptoms that would indicate its necessity.

649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
TSH w/Reflex is an outdated way to order testing.  Instead of ordering the tests as he should have, the TSH w/reflex is simply an order to run TSH and if it's "in range", the lab is not supposed to do anything further; however, if TSH is out of range, the lab should run "only" Free T4.  Many doctors think this is sufficient to test for thyroid function, but it's not.

As I explained, TSH is a pituitary hormone, not a thyroid hormone, so it doesn't really tell us whether the thyroid is working or not.

It will be interesting to see what sort of answer you get from your doctor in response to your question about the testing...  

You may need to find a different doctor before it's all over...
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1 Comments
I've received a response and the blood drawn was done this past Monday. The sample used was for this particular test (nothing else). I know I'm going to sound like a dummy right now but I want to send him a message in regarding the additional testing you have mentioned.  How can I word this out to him?  without sounding like I don't know what I'm talking about. The last thing I would want is for the physician is to not take me serious when I send him this message in regards to requesting certain test.

Thank you Barb135
649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
The FNA (Fine Needle Aspiration) you're having on the 2nd of May may only tell part of the diagnosis.  

The tissue samples collected during the FNA will be examined/tested and, hopefully, that will tell you whether or not you have cancer.  Sometimes, the FNA is inconclusive, meaning they can't really tell one way or the other.  If that's the case, they will decide, then what should be done, based on your circumstances.  They may take a "wait and see" approach or they may do decide on something else.

Sometimes, they can tell whether or no a person is having an autoimmune attack, but not always.  The antibody tests are best for finding autoimmune conditions.

The only way they can determine actual thyroid function is to do the tests for Free T4, Free T3 because those are the actual thyroid hormones, so they will tell what the thyroid is actually producing.  TSH is a pituitary hormone that stimulates the thyroid.  Many doctors will only test TSH and if that's in range, they test no further, but that's not good.  
Helpful - 0
1 Comments
Good morning Barb135,

I've received an update on my FollowMyHealth account from my physician.
I was not aware that this particular test was performed. Unless they were using the same samples of blood that was being drawn out recently for other concerns. Please see below.

Discussion/Summary

Your TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) was normal.

Verified Results

TSH with Free T4 Reflex

16Apr2018 10:00AM

Test Name

Result

Flag

Reference

TSH

2.89 microIU/mL

0.35-5.50

The reference range for this TSH assay applies to adults only.

I've sent a message to my physician to verify when this particular test was performed. I've also asked about the additional testing from the ones you have mentioned earlier.

Thank you Barb135
649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
It's good that you're getting a biopsy, but let me say that I phrased my comment in a misleading manner, so I'll rephrase it because I'm here to help comfort people not scare them and I'm sorry.

I didn't mean it in such a way that all solid nodules are likely to be cancer.  I meant that of all nodules the solid ones are most likely to be cancer, but that doesn't mean that all solid nodules "are" cancer. Also, keep in mind that only 5% of ALL thyroid nodules are cancer.  That's a lot of nodules that aren't.  

If it's any consolation, I have a 1.0 X 1.1 X 0.8 cm solid nodule and my doctor refused to refer me for a biopsy... he said it wasn't large enough.

Do you have a diagnosed thyroid condition, such as hyper or hypothyroidism?

Helpful - 0
3 Comments
I really appreciate you clarifying this for me.  Also for the consolation as well. I have not been diagnosed with hyper or hypothyroidism. All of this originated from an Hiv scare that I had (from January 15th) and today I received my at 91 days (negative) which rules it out for sure now. My thyroid nodule did not get swollen until about 2-3 weeks ago.

Thank you Barb135
You're very welcome.  I'm glad to hear your HIV tests are negative for sure; that will take one worry off.  As for the thyroid - it could be a coincidence that it swelled up at the same time.  

You might consider asking your doctor for some further tests to rule out autoimmune thyroid conditions (Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and/or Graves Disease) since nodules can accompany both/either of these conditions.  I have Hashimoto's, which ultimately causes lifelong hypothyroidism and have had nodules, along with goiter (swollen, inflamed thyroid) for many years. The nodules swell and shrink periodically, depending on the autoimmune attack going on at any given time.  

If you're positive for certain thyroid antibodies, you have one of these diseases.  To test for Hashimoto's, the tests you need are Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPOab) and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TgAb).  The definitive test for Graves Disease if Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI).  Thyroid function should also be tested via the following tests:  Free T4, Free T3, and TSH.
The FSA that they are doing on me on May 2nd. By testing the specimen, wouldn't that tell me exactly what could be my diagnosis?

I am going to ask my primary physician about those certain test you have mentioned regardless. I was just curious on to what the FSA can tell me once they have examined the specimen collected.
649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
Colloid nodules are overgrowths of thyroid tissue.  They may grow large, but they don't grow beyond the thyroid.

Cysts can be filled with fluid or partly fluid and partly solid material.  

Solid nodules are the most likely to be cancer, but it's important to note that thyroid cancer is quite rare (< 5% of all nodules turn out to be cancer).  Most nodules aren't biopsied until they're 2 cm unless certain criteria are met; however, the radiologist may feel otherwise.  If the radiologist who read your ultrasound felt a biopsy, otherwise known as an FNA (Fine Needle Aspiration) were necessary s/he would most likely have noted it in the report.  There's usually a section at the end called the conclusion or recommendations in which the radiologist will notate suggested followup.  If there is such a section, you can post the findings.  Suggestions are not always noted, however. Many times, it's left up to the ordering doctor to make the follow-up decisions.

In my opinion, a solid nodule over 1 cm should have an FNA to be on the safe side, but I'm not a doctor and not all doctors agree with me.

Lymph node involvement may have other implications and should be discussed with your doctor.
Helpful - 0
2 Comments
My doctor called me a few minutes ago stating that he's requesting a thyroid biopsy just to be on the safe side.

The conclusion on my results above read:

Bilateral indeterminate thyroid nodules. Follow up ultrasound for stability recommended in 6 months if biopsy is not obtained.

Prominent bilateral lymph nodes. Consider CT scan for further evaluation if clinically indicated.  

That's all that it says. I'm concerned for what you said that solid modules are most likely cancer. This is driving me bat $#!T now. My biopsy is scheduled for May 2nd.
I forgot to mention that it's a FNA that they are doing on May 2nd.
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