Aa
hyper or hypo?
Hello, I haven't felt well in 4 years since waking at 3am one morning with an anxiety attack, fast heart rate (couldn't tell you why. I haven't been able to rest well since and symptoms have got worse ie chest pain, BP rising 147/107, rising heart rate 98, almost constant anxiety, 3 actual panic attacks, insomnia sleeping 2.5 to 4 hours/nite, social fobias, anti-social, extreme fatigue all day but little worse first thing in am, I move slow everything is laborious, lethargic, depression, loss of appetite, weight loss, heavy deep breaths, hard to rest, peripherial neuropathy pain balls of feet and under toes, TSH 1.4 R. .4-4.5, FT#2.7 R. 2.0-4.4, FT4 .99 R. .82-1.7, serum cortisol little high 13.9 R. 5-11, Vit D 31 (low), B12 good, B6 good, Ferritin good, history if high cholesterol, high triglycerides, history > 2 years with positive IgG for HHV, CMV, and EBV., Have tried many meds. Currently considering trial of Nature-Throid to get T3 up although I don't think my symptoms are close to normal hypo or hyper. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thx
Hello my friend, thank you for the comments re NDT, I think I will go up on my dose a little sooner. Just what I was hoping to learn. A couple friends have noticed me doing a lot better the past couple days and said so plus I've been feeling better. First time in 4 years I've taken something on purpose that has helped besides short term band-aid meds! I walked around the lake twice, about a mile each!
Thanks Barb!
Tom
Thanks Barb!
Tom
COMMUNITY LEADER
I was just heading off to bed when I saw your post... my feet are my feet and they actually hurt pretty bad tonight, because I did some extra walking today... goes with the territory, sometimes.
Look into the R-ALA - it's "body ready" and I've noticed that it does work better, though it's more expensive. I got mine at The Vitamin Shoppe; I'm currently looking for a less expensive source. The one I have now is not R-ALA and it's not working well at all; I won't buy it again.
Well, it's a cardinal rule that when you start supplements, you only start one at a time, because if you do multiples, you don't which helps and which hinders. One at a time and keep notes. I keep a notebook in the bathroom to keep track of things like that, as well as to make sure I've taken all my thyroid and other prescription meds for the day, etc because I do get busy and it's easy to forget.
Well, I've never taken Nature-Throid, but from what I know of it, you should be able to increase faster than that... from what I've heard you should be able to increase every few days, because of the fast acting T3. Within a couple more days, you should be able to increase to 1/2 gr in the morning and 1/2 gr in the afternoon (2 pm might be kind of late, but you'll have to see about that). You should talk to your doctor... if you aren't feeling anything from the T3, you probably need a higher dose.
Nah - MH doesn't give plaques or awards... I get my satisfaction from helping people... :-)
Look into the R-ALA - it's "body ready" and I've noticed that it does work better, though it's more expensive. I got mine at The Vitamin Shoppe; I'm currently looking for a less expensive source. The one I have now is not R-ALA and it's not working well at all; I won't buy it again.
Well, it's a cardinal rule that when you start supplements, you only start one at a time, because if you do multiples, you don't which helps and which hinders. One at a time and keep notes. I keep a notebook in the bathroom to keep track of things like that, as well as to make sure I've taken all my thyroid and other prescription meds for the day, etc because I do get busy and it's easy to forget.
Well, I've never taken Nature-Throid, but from what I know of it, you should be able to increase faster than that... from what I've heard you should be able to increase every few days, because of the fast acting T3. Within a couple more days, you should be able to increase to 1/2 gr in the morning and 1/2 gr in the afternoon (2 pm might be kind of late, but you'll have to see about that). You should talk to your doctor... if you aren't feeling anything from the T3, you probably need a higher dose.
Nah - MH doesn't give plaques or awards... I get my satisfaction from helping people... :-)
Hey Barb,
I hope the feet are doing okay. I needed that simple advice to take one thing at a time so I can see what's helping, thanks. And no my ALA wasn't R or Ra-ALA unfortunately. I appreciate that reminder too!
Peppermint and Plum huh? Sounds soothing. I will definitely give it a try.
I'm starting with 1/2 gr of NatureThroid 30 min before breakfast. That's all. No difference but no side effects either so far, 3 days. I'm suposto be on 1/2 gr for 10 days then 1/2 gr am and 2pm for a 1 gr total for the next 10 days. Does this sound right? I feel like I could start with more but not sure.
Thanks for any thoughts. Seven years here! You should get a plaque or an award! lol.
I appreciate you!
Tom
I hope the feet are doing okay. I needed that simple advice to take one thing at a time so I can see what's helping, thanks. And no my ALA wasn't R or Ra-ALA unfortunately. I appreciate that reminder too!
Peppermint and Plum huh? Sounds soothing. I will definitely give it a try.
I'm starting with 1/2 gr of NatureThroid 30 min before breakfast. That's all. No difference but no side effects either so far, 3 days. I'm suposto be on 1/2 gr for 10 days then 1/2 gr am and 2pm for a 1 gr total for the next 10 days. Does this sound right? I feel like I could start with more but not sure.
Thanks for any thoughts. Seven years here! You should get a plaque or an award! lol.
I appreciate you!
Tom
COMMUNITY LEADER
Sounds like you could probably have done well with an increase in the gaba and that might make it tolerable - that's the most we can hope for.
Ahhh - never a good idea to add more than one med/supplement at a time without giving each one a chance, because we end up like you did - not knowing what's helping and what isn't. Try one thing at a time and keep notes of what you're doing, how much of a supplement you're taking, when you add another, what, if any effects you notice, etc, so you know exactly what helps and what doesn't.
I've never tried acupuncture or chiropractic for my neuropathy, because I've heard such mixed reviews on both.
My neuropathy is pretty much equivalent 24/7; possibly a little worse at the end of a long day on my feet or when I wake up in the morning. My pain is a constant companion - I wish it would come and go; at least there might be some relief "sometimes"
I did find a lotion that helps, somewhat. It's by "bare foot"... peppermint and plum, with shea butter and contains tea tree oil. The peppermint has a cooling effect and the tea tree oil helps soothe away tiredness. I found mine at Walmart, but you can probably find it (or similar) at other stores as well. I soak my feet in ice water or let them sit on cold packs once in a while, but I have to be careful of that, because I not only have the burning pain, I have numbness, so I don't feel what I should, so that can be dangerous.
I suggest that you research the ALA and give it another try. I've read that it can actually repair the nerve endings in some cases - that may have been what was helping you. Make sure it's the body ready R-ALA.
I've been here since 2008, so I reckon I'll be here a while longer... keep us posted on that Nature-Throid. Are you splitting the daily dose into multuple doses or taking it all in one? Most of us on a T3 med find that taking it in more than one dose works best.
Ahhh - never a good idea to add more than one med/supplement at a time without giving each one a chance, because we end up like you did - not knowing what's helping and what isn't. Try one thing at a time and keep notes of what you're doing, how much of a supplement you're taking, when you add another, what, if any effects you notice, etc, so you know exactly what helps and what doesn't.
I've never tried acupuncture or chiropractic for my neuropathy, because I've heard such mixed reviews on both.
My neuropathy is pretty much equivalent 24/7; possibly a little worse at the end of a long day on my feet or when I wake up in the morning. My pain is a constant companion - I wish it would come and go; at least there might be some relief "sometimes"
I did find a lotion that helps, somewhat. It's by "bare foot"... peppermint and plum, with shea butter and contains tea tree oil. The peppermint has a cooling effect and the tea tree oil helps soothe away tiredness. I found mine at Walmart, but you can probably find it (or similar) at other stores as well. I soak my feet in ice water or let them sit on cold packs once in a while, but I have to be careful of that, because I not only have the burning pain, I have numbness, so I don't feel what I should, so that can be dangerous.
I suggest that you research the ALA and give it another try. I've read that it can actually repair the nerve endings in some cases - that may have been what was helping you. Make sure it's the body ready R-ALA.
I've been here since 2008, so I reckon I'll be here a while longer... keep us posted on that Nature-Throid. Are you splitting the daily dose into multuple doses or taking it all in one? Most of us on a T3 med find that taking it in more than one dose works best.
Hi Barb, I took up to 600mg of Gaba TID. Interesting you mention ALA as I was taking 600 mg BID (along with a few other supplements so I never knew which one was helping) when my PN went away for 3 months! I will try that again!! I cud use the help with BP too. I know what you mean by always looking for something to help PN. I've tried essential oils, acupuncture, chiropractic, lots of meds and supplements too.
Does your PN hurt more in the evening and night? Worse when legs are elevated? Come and go some days or is it constant?
Praying you feel better. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I've been on a solo journey too long. Warmly, Tom
Does your PN hurt more in the evening and night? Worse when legs are elevated? Come and go some days or is it constant?
Praying you feel better. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I've been on a solo journey too long. Warmly, Tom
COMMUNITY LEADER
Unfortunately, PN from B-12 deficiency can't always be fixed... my pernicious anemia went undiagnosed/untreated for so many years that damage to the nerve endings in my feet is definitely permanent. Drugs, supplements and/or diet are my only choices, so I'm constantly on a quest to find "something" that will work.
I don't know what dose of gaba you were on, but it sounds like you simply might have needed a stronger dose. I was on 300 mg, 3 times/day and my neuro would have allowed me to go up to 600 mg 3 times/day as the neuropathy progresses; unfortunately, my weight would have gone up accordingly and I couldn't afford that... lol
You can do some research into Alpha Lipoic Acid... Someone put a bug in my ear about that, a while back and I've researched quite extensively. I started taking it with my doctor's blessing and it does help with the neuropathy, somewhat. It also helps lower blood pressure and I've been able to eliminate one blood pressure med. The problem is that I haven't been able to get a accurate suggestion of proper dosage, so I'm still researching.
Between that, the anti-inflammatory diet and the topiramate, I get by, though my neuropathy is far from "under control".
Do research the B6 issue... that can cause problems for a lot of us.
Good luck with the Nature-Throid... I often believe that getting thyroid levels up where we need them will send a lot of our symptoms away...
I don't know what dose of gaba you were on, but it sounds like you simply might have needed a stronger dose. I was on 300 mg, 3 times/day and my neuro would have allowed me to go up to 600 mg 3 times/day as the neuropathy progresses; unfortunately, my weight would have gone up accordingly and I couldn't afford that... lol
You can do some research into Alpha Lipoic Acid... Someone put a bug in my ear about that, a while back and I've researched quite extensively. I started taking it with my doctor's blessing and it does help with the neuropathy, somewhat. It also helps lower blood pressure and I've been able to eliminate one blood pressure med. The problem is that I haven't been able to get a accurate suggestion of proper dosage, so I'm still researching.
Between that, the anti-inflammatory diet and the topiramate, I get by, though my neuropathy is far from "under control".
Do research the B6 issue... that can cause problems for a lot of us.
Good luck with the Nature-Throid... I often believe that getting thyroid levels up where we need them will send a lot of our symptoms away...
That was very helpful, thanks Barb. Correction 2011 B12 was 707, 2015 B12 was 849. 2013 Ferritin was 177, 2015 166. I wished the PN was from B12 cuz I cud fix it. I will try the inti-inflammatory diet again and see if it helps. Gabapentin helped a little. Tramadol helps but is a strong stimulant to me and can't take it after 2pm if I want to have any chance of sleeping. The PN has kept me up all night untill I fall asleep from exhaustion after watching the sun rise. For some reason the PN went away for 3 months last summer. Odd. It's early but D3 might be helping. I've often though it cud be B12 especially since it's absorbed in the terminal ileum and I've lost 18" of my TI along with my entire large intestine 36 yrs ago due to surgery for UColitis at the age of 13.
I wonder if it cud be my B6 as it was high just 3 months ago. Thank you. I think I'm hypo but adrenal insuff causes some hyper symptoms so I will like try to better support my adrenals after Salivary Cortisol X4 come back. SO far my first 1/2 gm of Nature-Throid went well, it was 5 hours ago and not feeling weird :) Thanks for sharing. Tom
I wonder if it cud be my B6 as it was high just 3 months ago. Thank you. I think I'm hypo but adrenal insuff causes some hyper symptoms so I will like try to better support my adrenals after Salivary Cortisol X4 come back. SO far my first 1/2 gm of Nature-Throid went well, it was 5 hours ago and not feeling weird :) Thanks for sharing. Tom
COMMUNITY LEADER
I guess I tend to discount adrenal insufficiency, a bit, myself, because when the thyroid isn't producing enough, the adrenals kick in to help take up the slack. In view of that, it makes sense that the adrenals are going to be out of whack until you have adequate thyroid hormones, then it will take a while for the whole body to readjust.
Your B-12 at 769 is barely "adequate", but has it always been that high or could there have been periods, during which it could have been considerably lower? Some countries consider anything less than 500 to be deficient and my lab puts a note on the report saying that anything less than 500 can cause symptoms of deficiency. Low B-12 levels can cause the most horrendous fatigue imaginable and long standing, untreated B-12 deficiency also causes peripheral neuropathy since B-12 deficiency affects the nerve endings. So that's definitely something to look into if you have past lab reports to compare.
In regards to the peripheral neuropathy - yes, hypo can cause it, as can low B-12. If you already been checked out, you might want to make sure you aren't diabetic, since untreated/uncontrolled diabetes also causes peripheral neuropathy. I can certainly sympathize with the pain in the balls of your feet/under your toes... I have it on the entire bottoms of my feet, but it "is" worse in those areas. Mine is permanent nerve damage caused by many years of undiagnosed, untreated pernicious anemia (inability to absorb B-12). My endo thought some may have been caused from being hypo, but that would have gone away when I was no longer hypo and it didn't.
If your neuropathy is moderate to severe, you can talk to your doctor about med for the pain. My neurologist put me on gabapentin for a while, but my pcp took me off that and put me on topiramate because gaba causes weight gain, which I certainly didn't need, while topiramate aids in weight loss, if you can get a therapeutic dose.
You also mentioned B6. That's not a level that's typically tested. It's important to note that a lot of supplements contain B6, which is known to disturb sleep. I have to be very careful with it because it causes me to have very vivid, disturbing dreams. It does the same to my husband.
A dietician told me that an "anti-inflammatory" diet would help my neuropathy and when I stick with it, it seems to help. Anti-inflammatory means eliminating most bread type products and sticking with fresh whole foods, with little sugar, which is very inflammatory.
Your B-12 at 769 is barely "adequate", but has it always been that high or could there have been periods, during which it could have been considerably lower? Some countries consider anything less than 500 to be deficient and my lab puts a note on the report saying that anything less than 500 can cause symptoms of deficiency. Low B-12 levels can cause the most horrendous fatigue imaginable and long standing, untreated B-12 deficiency also causes peripheral neuropathy since B-12 deficiency affects the nerve endings. So that's definitely something to look into if you have past lab reports to compare.
In regards to the peripheral neuropathy - yes, hypo can cause it, as can low B-12. If you already been checked out, you might want to make sure you aren't diabetic, since untreated/uncontrolled diabetes also causes peripheral neuropathy. I can certainly sympathize with the pain in the balls of your feet/under your toes... I have it on the entire bottoms of my feet, but it "is" worse in those areas. Mine is permanent nerve damage caused by many years of undiagnosed, untreated pernicious anemia (inability to absorb B-12). My endo thought some may have been caused from being hypo, but that would have gone away when I was no longer hypo and it didn't.
If your neuropathy is moderate to severe, you can talk to your doctor about med for the pain. My neurologist put me on gabapentin for a while, but my pcp took me off that and put me on topiramate because gaba causes weight gain, which I certainly didn't need, while topiramate aids in weight loss, if you can get a therapeutic dose.
You also mentioned B6. That's not a level that's typically tested. It's important to note that a lot of supplements contain B6, which is known to disturb sleep. I have to be very careful with it because it causes me to have very vivid, disturbing dreams. It does the same to my husband.
A dietician told me that an "anti-inflammatory" diet would help my neuropathy and when I stick with it, it seems to help. Anti-inflammatory means eliminating most bread type products and sticking with fresh whole foods, with little sugar, which is very inflammatory.
I have appreciate other posts you've made Barb. Thank you for replying. Meds helped anxiety for a little but I guess I've learned not to be scared of it over the years and am maybe managing it better. BP meds are helping a little. I knew symptoms can vary and I'm glad to hear of your experience. There also seems to be a wide variety of symptoms of adrenal insufficiency which I'm trying to see if I have. I had a salivary cortisol 3 yrs ago 8am was low, noon ok, 5pm high and 11pm high. treated for 6 months with no improvement, I was likely wrong in discounting. Thoughts? Also is it possible the peripheral neuropathy pain in balls and under toes for past 2 yrs could be due to hypo? thank you for your time Barb.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I had some insomnia when I was hypo, along with rapid heart rate and palps. I believe the majority of it was caused by anxiety, but some was also caused by being hypo. I was on, both, beta blocker and mild anti-anxiety med for a while... have been off the beta blocker for about 3 yrs and the anti-anxiety med for about 2.5 yrs, now.
Thank you very much for the reply goolarra. Yeah, my symptoms don't fit into any category real well. Seems I hve a couple hyper or adrenal insuff symptoms. But since I have a number of hypo symptoms esp low basal 97.6 avg am PO via mercury I started on very low NDT this am a couple hours ago. My Ferritin is 166 and B12 is 769. Are those good? I'm going to get 4x salivary cortisol this week too. I appreciate your insight and plz ask away if you have more questions.
Your symptoms are somewhat mixed, and I would worry about adding T3 to your meds mainly because of your HR and BP. T3 is apt to increase both of those. Usually, when hypo, those two go down. Also, insomnia is not a hypo symptom. When hypo, we usually could sleep all night and all day. However, your FT3 and FT4 are lower than ideal.
Are your B-12 and ferritin well up in the ranges? Both of those have to be pretty high for proper thyroid function.
Are your B-12 and ferritin well up in the ranges? Both of those have to be pretty high for proper thyroid function.
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