Aa
hypo is every bit as bad as fatigue syndrome! (in case you ever wondered)
the only good thing about having fatigue syndrome and hypo (both auto-immune conditions) is that i get to compare the two! in my experience i'll just have to day that hypo is EVERY BIT AS BAD as fatigue syndrome, symptomatically. i know some of us here have both, so this is just opinion of course. they both had me clagged out on the couch nearly immobile with pain and discomfort. the only thing 'better' about having hypo is its manageability and diagnosis/ treatment. apart from that they are both bad bad s.o.b's that in my estimation can easily be underestimated by the casual observer for their potential to devastate.
why the comparison i'm making? well, it's just interesting to me and also, well, i've had lots of time (lying down) to think on such things. the only other incapacitation i've had is a badly broken leg 20 years ago - and it's doesn't rate on the scale - bit inconvenient - but a walk in the park in relative terms. so, there we have it.
why the comparison i'm making? well, it's just interesting to me and also, well, i've had lots of time (lying down) to think on such things. the only other incapacitation i've had is a badly broken leg 20 years ago - and it's doesn't rate on the scale - bit inconvenient - but a walk in the park in relative terms. so, there we have it.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Sorry, I don't mean to contradict you, but I found the following website:
http://www.arthritis-treatment-and-relief.com/understanding-fibromyalgia-and-autoimmune-diseases.html
This site states: "Fibromyalgia is not an autoimmune disease, although many people believe it to be. As noted below, there may be some evidence that FM has an autoimmune component to it. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of concrete evidence to support and validate that notion yet." You would have to read the whole article to get the rest.
I think the reason a lot of people dx'd with fibro are sent to rheumatologists is because of the similarity of the symptoms of fibro and RA (rheumatoid arthritis), which IS an autoimmune.
I agree that some studies have linked CFS with viral infection; however, from my research, I don't believe that's been definitively proven either.
Your thyroid levels look good; some people find it necessary to eliminate certain foods; have you been tested for celiac (another autoimmune)? Additionally, soy is not advised for those on thyroid med since soy inhibits the absorption of the med. Is it just the proteins, you couldn't handle?
In addition, many of us with Hashi's find that supplementing with selenium and vitamin D helps considerably. I, also find that magnesium helps ease the joint/muscle pain.
http://www.arthritis-treatment-and-relief.com/understanding-fibromyalgia-and-autoimmune-diseases.html
This site states: "Fibromyalgia is not an autoimmune disease, although many people believe it to be. As noted below, there may be some evidence that FM has an autoimmune component to it. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of concrete evidence to support and validate that notion yet." You would have to read the whole article to get the rest.
I think the reason a lot of people dx'd with fibro are sent to rheumatologists is because of the similarity of the symptoms of fibro and RA (rheumatoid arthritis), which IS an autoimmune.
I agree that some studies have linked CFS with viral infection; however, from my research, I don't believe that's been definitively proven either.
Your thyroid levels look good; some people find it necessary to eliminate certain foods; have you been tested for celiac (another autoimmune)? Additionally, soy is not advised for those on thyroid med since soy inhibits the absorption of the med. Is it just the proteins, you couldn't handle?
In addition, many of us with Hashi's find that supplementing with selenium and vitamin D helps considerably. I, also find that magnesium helps ease the joint/muscle pain.
egads! i meant to say 'fibromyalgia' is autoimmune, not cfs. i apologize for the bumsteer; (hence a lot of fibro patients are referred to rheumatologists).
sometimes i just shouldn't post anything. sorry about all that. cfs on the other hand seems to follow viral infection. i guess i had al three and began mixing them all up. friends, sorry! it's been a long journey. zzz. slinking off.
sometimes i just shouldn't post anything. sorry about all that. cfs on the other hand seems to follow viral infection. i guess i had al three and began mixing them all up. friends, sorry! it's been a long journey. zzz. slinking off.
my info is just what my dr's told me. she just knows things other drs don't! i've found she's been v accurate with everything in my case. i would have to mention the main 'inadequacy' of the cfs diagnosis (and of fibro (a separate but related condition)) is that it's so broadly applied to so many cases that the discussion is very varied; ie to say i believe my case is autoimmune inflammation while others might not, sorry if i'd been a bit sweeping about anyone else having autoimmune fibro. phew!
thyroid status now (july 2010) FT4 = 16 [10-20], TSH 1.1 [0.4-4.0], been off medication for over 8 months.
i quit within 4 weeks of the hypo episode and never went back on them (specialist directive)(who had had me on the wrong dose in the first place). i during that time had quit milk soy wheat iodine and had a shipload of counselling for stress/ grief/ grievances. also supplement w selenium mg and vit d. anyway, during this time my severe fatigue from cfs and allover discomfort from fibro has improved, which is consistent with a lot of inflammation being caused by proteins. agreed that the cfs might be an expected improvement w rest and time, but the reduction of some aspects of fibro symptoms and pain i do attribute it to the elimination of these proteins.
thyroid status now (july 2010) FT4 = 16 [10-20], TSH 1.1 [0.4-4.0], been off medication for over 8 months.
i quit within 4 weeks of the hypo episode and never went back on them (specialist directive)(who had had me on the wrong dose in the first place). i during that time had quit milk soy wheat iodine and had a shipload of counselling for stress/ grief/ grievances. also supplement w selenium mg and vit d. anyway, during this time my severe fatigue from cfs and allover discomfort from fibro has improved, which is consistent with a lot of inflammation being caused by proteins. agreed that the cfs might be an expected improvement w rest and time, but the reduction of some aspects of fibro symptoms and pain i do attribute it to the elimination of these proteins.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'm curious. You said in your original post that you were hyper and were over medicated, which caused you to go hypo. What is your current thyroid status? What is any thyroid meds are you on? Can you tell us what your current thyroid levels are?
COMMUNITY LEADER
Acker said: "for me, it started as exhaustion and i found it developed into all sorts of sensitivity and inflammation".
I have found nothing that says, or even implies that CFS is autoimmune; however, antibody tests are sometimes done to RULE OUT other diseases and/or previous infections.
I did found the following:
"Since there are no laboratory tests that specifically make the diagnosis of CFS, the diagnosis is based on symptoms." So that would answer my earlier question regarding antibody testing.
It is an interesting subject I think I will do more research on it.
I have found nothing that says, or even implies that CFS is autoimmune; however, antibody tests are sometimes done to RULE OUT other diseases and/or previous infections.
I did found the following:
"Since there are no laboratory tests that specifically make the diagnosis of CFS, the diagnosis is based on symptoms." So that would answer my earlier question regarding antibody testing.
It is an interesting subject I think I will do more research on it.
I still dont understand how the medical field Dx's Fibro or CFS, if its considered an autoimmune disorder but has no official tests for it.......? Speaking for the thyroid disorder community in general, I know there are others that are puzzled by this also. Personally I would like to understand this better, but is seems that Drs are still guessing, really....(?) I have yet to find any good concrete information on it. Seriously, how can this be?
Some Hypothyroid patients (Hashimoto or from RAI) have extreme tiredness and body pain / general inflammation. These people post here on occasion, while receiving what appears to be adequate thyroid meds. The common advice is to try a different thyroid med, or research the possibility of them being deficient in some vitamin or mineral. Some after years, and help here find some relief, but from what I,ve gathered for some time is therse people dont reach 100% well. So that said, there are Drs that would give these people one of these 'fatigue' labels and feel justified with a non-provable diagnosis. Hmmmm........,not acceptable!
Some Hypothyroid patients (Hashimoto or from RAI) have extreme tiredness and body pain / general inflammation. These people post here on occasion, while receiving what appears to be adequate thyroid meds. The common advice is to try a different thyroid med, or research the possibility of them being deficient in some vitamin or mineral. Some after years, and help here find some relief, but from what I,ve gathered for some time is therse people dont reach 100% well. So that said, there are Drs that would give these people one of these 'fatigue' labels and feel justified with a non-provable diagnosis. Hmmmm........,not acceptable!
i meant CFS - sorry, i just dropped the word 'chronic' cause i find it redundant! now my understanding is that cfs is separate from fibro but there's a lot of overlap and the grasp of it is hazy. it seems to vary WIDELY amongst everyone who has it. for me, it started as exhaustion and i found it developed into all sorts of sensitivity and inflammation - and later hyperthyroidism. which got overmedicated and thus i got to experience world of hypo :/
symptomatically i found differentiating between the two not too easy, cause you just feel like crap! i noticed when i was hypo for those few weeks (FT4 6 [10-20], TSH 60 [0.4-4.0]), i was just staring, anxious, immobilised - compared to cfs which was just the immobilization and sheer tiredness. there's overlap so i can only say for sure the main distinction was this business of staring and anxiety with hypo.
later the pain incresased which dr began to describe as fibro. it seems to go hand in hand with or follow cfs. dr took me off common foods that cause irritation of autoimmune system - mostly dairy (proteins in it) - i've found it reduced a lot of the allover inflammation.
i agree - fibro seems to be a catch-all diagnosis.
it's possible that people who have cfs/ fibro/ me/ cfids later develop autoimmune dysfunctions if it wasn't the initial cause
had a number of tests like ra, i don't know of any official tests, i just rely on dr a fair bit, cause it's worked.
symptomatically i found differentiating between the two not too easy, cause you just feel like crap! i noticed when i was hypo for those few weeks (FT4 6 [10-20], TSH 60 [0.4-4.0]), i was just staring, anxious, immobilised - compared to cfs which was just the immobilization and sheer tiredness. there's overlap so i can only say for sure the main distinction was this business of staring and anxiety with hypo.
later the pain incresased which dr began to describe as fibro. it seems to go hand in hand with or follow cfs. dr took me off common foods that cause irritation of autoimmune system - mostly dairy (proteins in it) - i've found it reduced a lot of the allover inflammation.
i agree - fibro seems to be a catch-all diagnosis.
it's possible that people who have cfs/ fibro/ me/ cfids later develop autoimmune dysfunctions if it wasn't the initial cause
had a number of tests like ra, i don't know of any official tests, i just rely on dr a fair bit, cause it's worked.
"This is the first I've seen though, that "fatigue syndrome", which I assume to be CFS, is an autoimmune" -
Me too, that's why I asked.
And is "fatigue syndrome", "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" and Fibromyalgia the same?
Some diseases are dx'ed by a gene to.
Me too, that's why I asked.
And is "fatigue syndrome", "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" and Fibromyalgia the same?
Some diseases are dx'ed by a gene to.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hmmm - somatoform / psychosomatic -- been down that road; it wasn't fun and I wish I could go back and show some of those pompous doctors what we were really dealing with.............I'm hearing a lot about "fatigue syndrome", "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" and Fibromyalgia. They seem to be being dx'd a lot and I agree that often later on, the dx is changed to hypothyroidism.
This is the first I've seen though, that "fatigue syndrome", which I assume to be CFS, is an autoimmune. I am really curious as to whether there are actually antibodies to test for that confirm CFS or "fatigue syndrome", like we do TPOab and TGab to test for Hashi's.
This is the first I've seen though, that "fatigue syndrome", which I assume to be CFS, is an autoimmune. I am really curious as to whether there are actually antibodies to test for that confirm CFS or "fatigue syndrome", like we do TPOab and TGab to test for Hashi's.
In the UK, when they don't want to acknowledge a thyroid problem because their only test (TSH) is not high enough for them to diagnose, they have resorted to calling it "somatoform disorders", which is basically medicalspeak for hypochondria. LOL
COMMUNITY LEADER
Is there an antibody test that's used to diagnose CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome)? If so, which one? Is CFS considered the same condition as Fibromyalgia or are they 2 different conditions? My daughter was once dx'd with fibro, which was later changed to lupus - following a battery of antibody tests.
Seems like fibro is beginning to be the "catch all" disease - if they can't figure out what's really going on, or don't know to run the right tests, they settle on fibro. I agree that fibro is a symptom of something else; but it seems like a good way for doctors to pacify patients; when they give a "name" to the condition, it's often felt like a solution is not far off, so it offers some hope. Problem is, once someone is dx'd with fibro, they often stop looking for any other causes.
Seems like fibro is beginning to be the "catch all" disease - if they can't figure out what's really going on, or don't know to run the right tests, they settle on fibro. I agree that fibro is a symptom of something else; but it seems like a good way for doctors to pacify patients; when they give a "name" to the condition, it's often felt like a solution is not far off, so it offers some hope. Problem is, once someone is dx'd with fibro, they often stop looking for any other causes.
I second that too. I don't feel it is a sole basis of anything to be told you have Fibro. I feel Fibro is a symptom of something else going on and just a brush off for many.
If you have both, maybe you can shed some light on the subject.
Since severe hypo (when labs are way off) has some similar symptoms to Fatigue Syndrome, how do they differentiate the two?
I have seen a list of pain areas (11 out of 17 (?) locations) used for diagnosing fibromyalgia, other than, it seems a lot of the time the medical field just slaps this label on people. Is there a blood test for it? If not, isn't it possible some of these patients have Hashimoto and they are being under treated or taking a thyroid med that does not work for them?
If someone is on a thyroid med that does not relieve symptoms, yet looks good on labs, what is to stop a doctor from saying they have Fibro when they really dont? T4 only med makes a few people feel that way, even if they have 'good' labs with it. The reason why many add T3 and feel better.
I mention this, since a doc in the past who worshiped Synthroid and would not let me take anything else suggested that I may have had Fibro or Fatigue syndrome, but he had no proof. I would not accept that. The fact that he repeatedly told me Armour was evil concoction made from bovine (cow) not pig, describes his medical intelligence level!
Since severe hypo (when labs are way off) has some similar symptoms to Fatigue Syndrome, how do they differentiate the two?
I have seen a list of pain areas (11 out of 17 (?) locations) used for diagnosing fibromyalgia, other than, it seems a lot of the time the medical field just slaps this label on people. Is there a blood test for it? If not, isn't it possible some of these patients have Hashimoto and they are being under treated or taking a thyroid med that does not work for them?
If someone is on a thyroid med that does not relieve symptoms, yet looks good on labs, what is to stop a doctor from saying they have Fibro when they really dont? T4 only med makes a few people feel that way, even if they have 'good' labs with it. The reason why many add T3 and feel better.
I mention this, since a doc in the past who worshiped Synthroid and would not let me take anything else suggested that I may have had Fibro or Fatigue syndrome, but he had no proof. I would not accept that. The fact that he repeatedly told me Armour was evil concoction made from bovine (cow) not pig, describes his medical intelligence level!
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