Aa
Circumcision?
Alexander Zadiel is almost here and we still haven't decided whether or not to have the circumcision. Any opinions on this? Have any of you decided on one for your babies or previous ones? Just wondering if its bad whether we do it or not.
Having a boy here. The more I know, the more I'm willing to do anything in my power to save my son from such a horrible experience.
1. Its illegal and unethical to do to girls. Even the American Academy of Pediatrics agreed that most forms of female genital mutilation are less severe than male circumcision.
2. There are no significant medical benefits. Access to condoms, showers, and antibiotics negate and surpass any possible benefits.
3. More baby boys die every year from circumcision than SIDS, suffocation, or drowning. A newborn only needs to lose a single ounce of blood to go into shock, the loss of two ounces can cause death.
4. No form of pain relief that can be offered to a newborn is effective enough. How is it ethical to use something no stronger than Orajel to amputate the most nerve sensitive area of the body? Babies are hypersensitive to pain and circumcised boys even show exaggerated pain responses months later.
5. His body, his choice. When a boy is kept intact he still has the choice to have the procedure done when he is old enough to decide for himself. When a circumcision is performed in infancy, he has no choice. Boys have actually sued their circumcisers because they are so distraught over what was stolen from them against their will.
6. Just watch a circumcision. Observe what they actually do these innocent little newborns. There is a reason parents aren't allowed to watch the actual procedure being done to their son.
1. Its illegal and unethical to do to girls. Even the American Academy of Pediatrics agreed that most forms of female genital mutilation are less severe than male circumcision.
2. There are no significant medical benefits. Access to condoms, showers, and antibiotics negate and surpass any possible benefits.
3. More baby boys die every year from circumcision than SIDS, suffocation, or drowning. A newborn only needs to lose a single ounce of blood to go into shock, the loss of two ounces can cause death.
4. No form of pain relief that can be offered to a newborn is effective enough. How is it ethical to use something no stronger than Orajel to amputate the most nerve sensitive area of the body? Babies are hypersensitive to pain and circumcised boys even show exaggerated pain responses months later.
5. His body, his choice. When a boy is kept intact he still has the choice to have the procedure done when he is old enough to decide for himself. When a circumcision is performed in infancy, he has no choice. Boys have actually sued their circumcisers because they are so distraught over what was stolen from them against their will.
6. Just watch a circumcision. Observe what they actually do these innocent little newborns. There is a reason parents aren't allowed to watch the actual procedure being done to their son.
We are having a boy as well. For every argument, there is a counter argument. There are a lot of things my children will not be able to decide for themselves (vaccines, circumcision, etc) that we parents will have to decide.
I think this is a personal choice, for us we are going to do it. I am sure there is some level of pain involved, and that there are potential risks. We are not ignorant to that, but have decided what is best for our family.
Perhaps if you are on the fence, you could wait and let them decide as Ant said...
I think this is a personal choice, for us we are going to do it. I am sure there is some level of pain involved, and that there are potential risks. We are not ignorant to that, but have decided what is best for our family.
Perhaps if you are on the fence, you could wait and let them decide as Ant said...
This is a hot topic! My son who is 4 was circumcised. We were in the room the entire time and watched the entire procedure. We were well educated on what was going on, what they were doing to manage the pain, and again, we were both right there with him. So, I have watched this being done to my own son. He never cried during the entire procedure. He was medicated and medicated for a few days afterwards, we never had any issues with blood loss, or infection. We are having another little boy and for our own personal reasons we will be doing it again. We both will also be right there again as well. Good luck this is your decision. That's the best part about being a parent you get to decide what is best for you!
We are having a boy & a girl. I am pretty sure we want our lil David circumsized though. I agree it is a matter of preference and parenting:)
My brother-in-law is not circumsized and he said he really wishes that he would have been when he was a baby. He hates not being circumsized but also hates the thought of having the surgery now. He is still kind of bitter to his mother for deciding not to do it. He insisted that we circumsize out little boy (we were going to anyways).
Just giving you an uncircumsized males perspective :-)
Take care!
Just giving you an uncircumsized males perspective :-)
Take care!
The decision is up to you and you alone. There are explanations as to why to do it and why to not do it.
I have a two year old son and we decided to get him circumcised. We had NO issues with it what so ever.
I don't think you're torturing, or mutilating, or disfiguring your child if you decide to. For one, you're getting it done so young he won't remember. No one I've ever heard of has been through it at an older age WITHOUT pain meds, so I really don't think it's fair to say just how much it hurts. Their "innocence" has NOTHING to do with your decision.
If you go to youtube and look up a circumcision video (I have done this.) Yes the baby cries, but they start crying before they're cutting...it's a newborn with it's pee pee being messed with, and it's not sure what's going on...it's going to cry. BUT right after they're done it's like it never happened. A lot of places take the baby out of the room away from the parents, and honestly you never know anything happened. They brought my son back happy as a camper...he wasn't crying or anything. If I didn't know that he'd just had a circumcision and the evidence wasn't in his diaper, I wouldn't have though anything had happened at all.
It's a decision for you and your other half to make, plain and simple. Just like Waitingforgoodnews said, for every argument there is a counter argument. Talk to your other half and decide for yourselves. Don't let anything influence your decision on whether or not you should do it besides your own educated opinions.
I have a two year old son and we decided to get him circumcised. We had NO issues with it what so ever.
I don't think you're torturing, or mutilating, or disfiguring your child if you decide to. For one, you're getting it done so young he won't remember. No one I've ever heard of has been through it at an older age WITHOUT pain meds, so I really don't think it's fair to say just how much it hurts. Their "innocence" has NOTHING to do with your decision.
If you go to youtube and look up a circumcision video (I have done this.) Yes the baby cries, but they start crying before they're cutting...it's a newborn with it's pee pee being messed with, and it's not sure what's going on...it's going to cry. BUT right after they're done it's like it never happened. A lot of places take the baby out of the room away from the parents, and honestly you never know anything happened. They brought my son back happy as a camper...he wasn't crying or anything. If I didn't know that he'd just had a circumcision and the evidence wasn't in his diaper, I wouldn't have though anything had happened at all.
It's a decision for you and your other half to make, plain and simple. Just like Waitingforgoodnews said, for every argument there is a counter argument. Talk to your other half and decide for yourselves. Don't let anything influence your decision on whether or not you should do it besides your own educated opinions.
I have a 5 year old son and a 2 1/2 year old son. Both were circumcised. I wasn't in the room when they did it but my husband was. My first son actually slept through it and my second didn't cry at all. Maybe after the trauma they had recently endured with going through the birth canal it seemed fairly easy. j/k. My husband comes from a family with 5 boys. 2 are circumcised 3 are not. All three not's said they wish they were. We felt it was right for our boys and it turned out okay for us. Good luck in your decision making process, it's one of thousands you'll make in behalf of your little bundle in years to come.
I think its very odd that circumcising a boy is still considered a 'personal' or 'parenting' decision. Would anyone consider strapping their daughter down and cutting into their genitals (even anesthetized) a decision that parents should be allowed to make for their daughter? I'm pretty sure some of those girls who live in regions where this is normal are happy with their parents decision just like many men are in the US. Of course here in the US being a circumcised adult male is so common that its uncomfortable with being kept the way God made you. Luckily the times are changing. Only 33% of newborn boys in the US are circumcised before they leave the hospital as of 2009. In most of Europe and Asia the only reason a boy would be circumcised would be his parents' religion (I've heard in Japan only the porn stars get circumcised so they can sell to the US). They don't even ask at the hospital.
And just to even the thread out here is a post on Mothering.com from mothers who regret circumcising their sons:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=112410
Coming out and saying "I was wrong" is one of the hardest things a parent can do.
And just to even the thread out here is a post on Mothering.com from mothers who regret circumcising their sons:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=112410
Coming out and saying "I was wrong" is one of the hardest things a parent can do.
i agree with wifeofant on this one...
but we are having a girl, so it's a bit of a moot point for us....
but we are having a girl, so it's a bit of a moot point for us....
I think comparing it to alteration of female genitals is not a fair comparison in the US -- that is not a practice we engage in, so I would imagine most people cannot relate to the idea of it. There are several things people do in different cultures that would seem very foreign, and possibly barbaric to us (have you seen the African cultures with the big rings around their necks, lips, etc.??) Those are not optional in their culture -- it's part of what they do and what is customary.
If there were an equivalent procedure done on females in our culture, then perhaps people would say yes, I can imagine doing it to my daugher (especially if a significant percentage of the population did it as the norm as well).
You can make the same argument of people piercing a baby's ears...it is essentially a permanent hole that the baby did not choose, and was an elective procedure. You can let them close, but there is usually a hole or a scar for years if not forever after. Most people are not offended by it, as it's something we do in our society.
There is a right choice for every family....whatever it may be.
If there were an equivalent procedure done on females in our culture, then perhaps people would say yes, I can imagine doing it to my daugher (especially if a significant percentage of the population did it as the norm as well).
You can make the same argument of people piercing a baby's ears...it is essentially a permanent hole that the baby did not choose, and was an elective procedure. You can let them close, but there is usually a hole or a scar for years if not forever after. Most people are not offended by it, as it's something we do in our society.
There is a right choice for every family....whatever it may be.
I personally feel it's rather ridiculous to compare male circumcision to female genital mutilation. In the countries where they "circumcise" the females, it involves total or partial removal of the external genitalia. They actually cut off the clitoris, and in some cases sew the labia nearly shut. I'm sorry, but when someone circumcises their son they aren't cutting off nearly his entire penis.
My aunt had her son circumcised and I can tell you, having changed his diapers the day after it was done, he was perfectly fine and seemed unfazed at having had it done. It healed properly, and there was no infection.
My DH is not circumcised, but we have agreed that if we ever have a son he will most likely be circumcised. I feel that it is a choice that is made by the parents or the individual when he is older, and those parents/individuals should not be given any flack about the nature of said penis. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, but I don't believe that if I circumcise my son (should I have one), that I am permanently mutilating his penis. Yes, I'm having a doctor cut off a piece of foreskin that is generally not needed. I am not cutting off his clitoris or sewing his vagina shut. And it will not cause infertility later in life as FGM can.
It is your decision as to whether or not you circumcise your son. You shouldn't be made to feel that your decision is wrong either way.
My aunt had her son circumcised and I can tell you, having changed his diapers the day after it was done, he was perfectly fine and seemed unfazed at having had it done. It healed properly, and there was no infection.
My DH is not circumcised, but we have agreed that if we ever have a son he will most likely be circumcised. I feel that it is a choice that is made by the parents or the individual when he is older, and those parents/individuals should not be given any flack about the nature of said penis. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, but I don't believe that if I circumcise my son (should I have one), that I am permanently mutilating his penis. Yes, I'm having a doctor cut off a piece of foreskin that is generally not needed. I am not cutting off his clitoris or sewing his vagina shut. And it will not cause infertility later in life as FGM can.
It is your decision as to whether or not you circumcise your son. You shouldn't be made to feel that your decision is wrong either way.
"In the countries where they "circumcise" the females, it involves total or partial removal of the external genitalia."
In the countries where they circumcise the males it involves partial removal of the external genitalia. The foreskin is part of the penis and that small section on a newborn is equivalent to half of the penile skin in the adult male. If the skin is pulled too tight (which wouldn't be known until adulthood) then a man could have painful erections. Scarred skin does not stretch as well and some studies have found that circumcised men have shorter erect penises as a result.
There are at least 4 forms of female genital mutilation. Type 1A is the most common and removes the clitoral hood, the analogous structure to the foreskin. Types 1 & 2 Female Genital Mutilation (including type 1B with the removal of the entire clitoris and type 2 with removal of the labia) was practiced right along side male circumcision in the US up until the 1900s. The reasons given were the same, both claimed to have medical benefit. (The last medical article praising FGM was published in the 1960s, the last doctor still performing the procedure on children practiced until the 1970s.)
In the countries where they circumcise the males it involves partial removal of the external genitalia. The foreskin is part of the penis and that small section on a newborn is equivalent to half of the penile skin in the adult male. If the skin is pulled too tight (which wouldn't be known until adulthood) then a man could have painful erections. Scarred skin does not stretch as well and some studies have found that circumcised men have shorter erect penises as a result.
There are at least 4 forms of female genital mutilation. Type 1A is the most common and removes the clitoral hood, the analogous structure to the foreskin. Types 1 & 2 Female Genital Mutilation (including type 1B with the removal of the entire clitoris and type 2 with removal of the labia) was practiced right along side male circumcision in the US up until the 1900s. The reasons given were the same, both claimed to have medical benefit. (The last medical article praising FGM was published in the 1960s, the last doctor still performing the procedure on children practiced until the 1970s.)
Reasons why people circumcised boys:
-Early Judaiasm: Circumcision was a commandment from God. This is not an American circumcision. The foreskin was not removed, only the very tip was cut off. It could easily be pulled down and pass for an intact penis.
-Christianity is born. Circumcision is banned within the church. To circumcise meant to refuse Jesus and insult God's creation. Later the Roman empire made circumcision illegal.
-In response to the Roman Empire the Jews modified circumcision to remove more of the foreskin so it could not be 'restored'.
-In 1843, a reform within the Jewish community declared circumcision unnecessary and cruel.
-1865-1870 Circumcision becomes a medical procedure to reduce masturbation. Even then they knew the importance of the foreskin for sexual pleasure. However studies now indicate that circumcised men are more likely to seek out other means of stimulation such as oral and anal sex. They are also more likely to engage in sexual acts with prostitutes and have unprotected sex.
-In 1949, Gairdner wrote that circumcision was medically unnecessary and non-beneficial, and contraindicated because of complications and deaths. The British National Health Service (NHS) deleted non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision from the schedule of covered procedures in 1950. Circumcision is now considered a 'strange American fetish'.
-20 years later, Dr. Preston established that there is no therapeutic or prophylactic benefit to circumcision. He also cited "undesirable psychologic, sexual, and medico-legal difficulties".
-1971, The American Academy of Pediatrics comes out with their current statement: "There are no valid medical indications for circumcision in the neonatal period."
-1996, the rate of male circumcision in the US drops to 60%.
-1997, the AAP reclassifies male circumcision from 'routine' to 'elective'.
-2001, the rate of male circumcision in the US drops to 55%.
-2009, a study tracking the complications of circumcision accidentally finds the circumcision rate at hospital discharge has dropped to only 33%. The majority of baby boys are now coming home intact.
-Early Judaiasm: Circumcision was a commandment from God. This is not an American circumcision. The foreskin was not removed, only the very tip was cut off. It could easily be pulled down and pass for an intact penis.
-Christianity is born. Circumcision is banned within the church. To circumcise meant to refuse Jesus and insult God's creation. Later the Roman empire made circumcision illegal.
-In response to the Roman Empire the Jews modified circumcision to remove more of the foreskin so it could not be 'restored'.
-In 1843, a reform within the Jewish community declared circumcision unnecessary and cruel.
-1865-1870 Circumcision becomes a medical procedure to reduce masturbation. Even then they knew the importance of the foreskin for sexual pleasure. However studies now indicate that circumcised men are more likely to seek out other means of stimulation such as oral and anal sex. They are also more likely to engage in sexual acts with prostitutes and have unprotected sex.
-In 1949, Gairdner wrote that circumcision was medically unnecessary and non-beneficial, and contraindicated because of complications and deaths. The British National Health Service (NHS) deleted non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision from the schedule of covered procedures in 1950. Circumcision is now considered a 'strange American fetish'.
-20 years later, Dr. Preston established that there is no therapeutic or prophylactic benefit to circumcision. He also cited "undesirable psychologic, sexual, and medico-legal difficulties".
-1971, The American Academy of Pediatrics comes out with their current statement: "There are no valid medical indications for circumcision in the neonatal period."
-1996, the rate of male circumcision in the US drops to 60%.
-1997, the AAP reclassifies male circumcision from 'routine' to 'elective'.
-2001, the rate of male circumcision in the US drops to 55%.
-2009, a study tracking the complications of circumcision accidentally finds the circumcision rate at hospital discharge has dropped to only 33%. The majority of baby boys are now coming home intact.
You are the parent of this child. When your son is born he will be unable to make any decision for himself. YOU are the one who has to make EVERY decision for him. To tell you something is right or wrong would be to question your ability as a parent, and should NOT be done. Your decisions are what YOU feel are right, whether it be circumcision, clothing, hair cutting, his name, when to start solid foods...they are all YOUR decisions. Until your son is old enough to make decisions on his own, you have to trust that what you decide is right for you and your family, and you CAN NOT let anyone else let you think otherwise. This decision just like any other is not about whether people think it's right or wrong, it's about how you feel and the conclusion you come to.
The debate of circumcision is like any other controversial debate, gay marriage, keeping the "don't ask don't tell" policy in the US military, keeping "In God We Trust" on money in the US, I'm sure there's a never ending list of debatable topics. Your opinion one way or the other does not make you right or wrong. You as a human being with your own brain and thought process have the ability to form an opinion. Opinions are not right or wrong, they're your feelings.
The debate of circumcision is like any other controversial debate, gay marriage, keeping the "don't ask don't tell" policy in the US military, keeping "In God We Trust" on money in the US, I'm sure there's a never ending list of debatable topics. Your opinion one way or the other does not make you right or wrong. You as a human being with your own brain and thought process have the ability to form an opinion. Opinions are not right or wrong, they're your feelings.
I don't see how you find it odd that it's a personal/parental decision. When you have a child every decision you make is your own personal/parental decision. How else would you label your decisions?
Either way, if most people in the country were deciding to grow their hair out long since there's no reason to cut it, would you join in on the "grow it out" group? There's a reason that the studies don't show 100% of baby boys going home without being circumcised...it's because not everyone decides not to have it done...it doesn't matter what the majority does...all that matters is what the parents want for their child.
Some people do it for religious reasons...are they wrong for doing it? Because if you think they're wrong, then you're saying their religion is wrong. Who are you to say someone's religion is wrong? Who is anyone to tell a parent that their decisions are wrong? NO ONE. As a parent you make decisions that you feel are best, and should not be judged or told otherwise. Your decisions are your decisions, period.
Either way, if most people in the country were deciding to grow their hair out long since there's no reason to cut it, would you join in on the "grow it out" group? There's a reason that the studies don't show 100% of baby boys going home without being circumcised...it's because not everyone decides not to have it done...it doesn't matter what the majority does...all that matters is what the parents want for their child.
Some people do it for religious reasons...are they wrong for doing it? Because if you think they're wrong, then you're saying their religion is wrong. Who are you to say someone's religion is wrong? Who is anyone to tell a parent that their decisions are wrong? NO ONE. As a parent you make decisions that you feel are best, and should not be judged or told otherwise. Your decisions are your decisions, period.
Well there are legal decisions, moral decisions, health care decisions...
Cutting hair? One, it can be changed. A child is not forever bald because you cut his hair. Two, It is not painful to have a haircut.
Yes and there are also people who practice child marriage and promote the rape of those children for 'religious reasons'. It doesn't mean it should be legal or accepted. Parents who would marry off a 9 year old girl just because their religion told them to should be told that they're wrong. At that point a child's HUMAN RIGHTS come before the parents belief system.
Cutting hair? One, it can be changed. A child is not forever bald because you cut his hair. Two, It is not painful to have a haircut.
Yes and there are also people who practice child marriage and promote the rape of those children for 'religious reasons'. It doesn't mean it should be legal or accepted. Parents who would marry off a 9 year old girl just because their religion told them to should be told that they're wrong. At that point a child's HUMAN RIGHTS come before the parents belief system.
Well, I see it differently. A person has the right to whatever religion they feel, and if they are that into their religion that they see it as the right way, we have no right to question that.
It may not be acceptable to you or I because we are not that religion, or we do not see it as an acceptable thing to do, BUT it's not our place to say. Just like with arranged marriage, we may not see it as the right thing to do, I believe that a person should have the ability to find love instead of being forced into it, but I don't think it's wrong. It's another's way of life.
You're talking about haircuts like I was comparing it to circumcision...I wasn't. It's an example of a decision a parent makes, just like clothing was, or the part where I mentioned the child's name.
There was a little baby that was killed by her dad and uncle, raped, thrown into the ceiling just to fall to the floor, broken bones, semen found in her stomach...she wasn't even a year old when she died...she'd been taken to the hospital multiple times, police reports filed multiple times, placed in the care of her grandmother only to be put back in her parents house...I don't think parents who circumcise their children are horrible. It's their decisions, and if that's the worst thing to happen in that boy's life...he's d@mn lucky.
BTW Galatians 5:6.
It may not be acceptable to you or I because we are not that religion, or we do not see it as an acceptable thing to do, BUT it's not our place to say. Just like with arranged marriage, we may not see it as the right thing to do, I believe that a person should have the ability to find love instead of being forced into it, but I don't think it's wrong. It's another's way of life.
You're talking about haircuts like I was comparing it to circumcision...I wasn't. It's an example of a decision a parent makes, just like clothing was, or the part where I mentioned the child's name.
There was a little baby that was killed by her dad and uncle, raped, thrown into the ceiling just to fall to the floor, broken bones, semen found in her stomach...she wasn't even a year old when she died...she'd been taken to the hospital multiple times, police reports filed multiple times, placed in the care of her grandmother only to be put back in her parents house...I don't think parents who circumcise their children are horrible. It's their decisions, and if that's the worst thing to happen in that boy's life...he's d@mn lucky.
BTW Galatians 5:6.
Hey Ivy, aren't you glad you asked?!!? ;)
Clearly this is quite a debatable issue --hopefully you have gotten some information (in both directions) to think about and make whichever decision is best for your family.
Good luck to you, Alexander and your family!!
Clearly this is quite a debatable issue --hopefully you have gotten some information (in both directions) to think about and make whichever decision is best for your family.
Good luck to you, Alexander and your family!!
http://www.cdc. gov/hiv/resources /factsheets/circumcision. htm
http://www. who.int/hiv/topics /malecircumcision/en /index.html
Just some reading material for you. The first link is to the CDC about their stand on circumcision and the second is the WHO. On the WHO's link, there is a link "male circumcision publications" that leads to a page with more links for info on male circumcision.
http://www. who.int/hiv/topics /malecircumcision/en /index.html
Just some reading material for you. The first link is to the CDC about their stand on circumcision and the second is the WHO. On the WHO's link, there is a link "male circumcision publications" that leads to a page with more links for info on male circumcision.
Just because you feel that something is morally wrong, doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you. You can state your facts all you want to, but the point is that it is a personal/parental decision like smj said, and the argument can go both ways. Not everyone is going to want their son circumcised, so naturally it's not 100% practiced in the US. It's wonderful that you feel as strongly as you do about not circumcising your son, but you shouldn't be putting down others decisions for circumcising. The whole point of this post was to respectfully give the poster your incite as to why or why not you are choosing circumcision. I don't feel that you did this as you brought up FGM, religion, and that it is medically unnecessary. Your opinion on this subject isn't going to change my opinion, or the opinion of the ladies who have chosen to circumcise their sons. Everyone is entitled to their own decisions and choices, and they should be respected. It's also pointless to give me a list of dates on the different practices of circumcision. Almost as pointless as your post about how you can't find out the gender of your child, that the politically correct term is the sex. With that being said, I respect your decisions to not circumcise your son. Thank you for the brief history lesson, but you have not changed my opinion on circumcision.
thank you for your post finally someone that can tell her the way it is in a respectful and well put manner. after being told that us mothers that have curcumcised their son (13 years old) and will be doing it again for my son due December that i'm a horrible mother for torturing my son does not deserve the respect and patiance from me.
I was going to stay out of this. However, as a parent of two kids there are a few things that I have learned. 1. I won't agree with all of my friends and family. AND 2. I don't have to. I feel that as a parent there are going to be numerous issues that you must make a decision on. Sometimes friends and family will agree with you and sometimes they won't. This the beauty of being a parent to your child, you make the choice. I have some beliefs that I feel very strong about, my close friends and family know these and although some don't agree we don't judge or belittle each other. One of my personal issues is breast is best. That doesn't mean that I don't accept that formula is a way of feeding or push my beliefs on other people, or put them down when they offer a bottle of formula, or question why they are doing so when the studies show xyz. We learn to accept them for who they are and the decisions they have made. Respect for other moms comes in time as you become a mom. I wish you the best of luck in makign your decisions, they don't get easier.
I'd like you to quote where I specifically put anyone here down.
I really don't care what people think. Its not about any of us, its about the little boys whose rights to bodily integrity are being violated. Altering another person's genitals without their consent or medical necessity is not a decision I feel anyone is entitled to make, regardless of what the relationship between the two people.
And thank you for pointing out the old Africa/HIV studies. If you'd like to follow up on those you could also see that the results were only temporary. Circumcised men are now getting HIV at a faster rate. In a few countries the programs are being discontinued because of this. It obviously didn't help the US which has the highest rates of BOTH HIV and circumcision in the developed world. Acquisition of HIV is a behavioral issue. Only two things are going to slow it down, condoms and abstinence. If you can't bother to teach either, circumcision isn't going to make up the difference.
I really don't care what people think. Its not about any of us, its about the little boys whose rights to bodily integrity are being violated. Altering another person's genitals without their consent or medical necessity is not a decision I feel anyone is entitled to make, regardless of what the relationship between the two people.
And thank you for pointing out the old Africa/HIV studies. If you'd like to follow up on those you could also see that the results were only temporary. Circumcised men are now getting HIV at a faster rate. In a few countries the programs are being discontinued because of this. It obviously didn't help the US which has the highest rates of BOTH HIV and circumcision in the developed world. Acquisition of HIV is a behavioral issue. Only two things are going to slow it down, condoms and abstinence. If you can't bother to teach either, circumcision isn't going to make up the difference.
This post wasn't about whether or not you think someone is entitled to make a decision. Reread the original post.
The only reason I even searched for, found, and posted information on circumcision is because you're only listing negatives. You have no proof to back anything you have said, I haven't made any bold statements what so ever, just provided two links.
I don't care either way whether someone is for or against circumcisions. I would recommend to anyone to educate themselves, and be well informed before making a decision.
I personally believe if you're going to attempt to put up statistics/information for any subject you need to show proof, or post a link to a site where you can find information supporting your statements, which again, you have NOT listed.
Saying things like "The more I know, the more I'm willing to do anything in my power to save my son from such a horrible experience." and saying "Observe what they actually do these innocent little newborns" you make it sound like we're horrible parents if we chose to circumcise, or have already circumcised our sons. That's putting people down.
"If you can't bother to teach either, circumcision isn't going to make up the difference." You can teach all you want that doesn't mean your children will follow your advice. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
The only reason I even searched for, found, and posted information on circumcision is because you're only listing negatives. You have no proof to back anything you have said, I haven't made any bold statements what so ever, just provided two links.
I don't care either way whether someone is for or against circumcisions. I would recommend to anyone to educate themselves, and be well informed before making a decision.
I personally believe if you're going to attempt to put up statistics/information for any subject you need to show proof, or post a link to a site where you can find information supporting your statements, which again, you have NOT listed.
Saying things like "The more I know, the more I'm willing to do anything in my power to save my son from such a horrible experience." and saying "Observe what they actually do these innocent little newborns" you make it sound like we're horrible parents if we chose to circumcise, or have already circumcised our sons. That's putting people down.
"If you can't bother to teach either, circumcision isn't going to make up the difference." You can teach all you want that doesn't mean your children will follow your advice. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
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