Ok, going to try to get off the hydro's

[RitaJo60]

Hi.  Of course I am here because I was researching how to quit taking hydrocodone.  It all started innocently...doesn't it always?

I need support.  I think I can do the taper.  It is the MENTAL that is the problem.  I THINK I need more.  I think it calms my nerves.  I think it makes my life better.  It doesn't.  

I don't know about the physical withdraws.  I have read about them and yes that scares me since I can not take off work or quit life to lay in bed and suffer.  

The time I like to take my pills is first thing in the morning.  I have fibromyalgia and mornings are the WORST.  I go through my own script way to fast.  Then, here i am buying them for mega bucks and taking grocery money etc to buy them.

It is time to stop.  I have so much more to say.  

Tell me...what is the first step?  Admitting I am an addict?  I am!  Now what?

Can someone help me?  Ask me anything you need to know.  I will be totally honest and answer the questions.  I want out of the mad house I am in.  I want off the roller coaster.  I want a life back that is drug free.  I want to quit thinking all the time about the stupid pills.  Those damn things consume all my thinking time.  My dreaming time.  It seems the more I have available the more I take.  If I only have 6 I make them last.  

Help me!

[gnarly_1]

Hi and welcome to the forum.....I see you have been a member since 2007.....well it sounds like your fed up with it and ready to stop.....we will be here for you....first off try not to let fear into the equation it is always worst in our heads then it turns out to be....second it is all about attitude....a positive attitude is a must it makes the difference between being uncomfortable and suffering......suffering is a choice.....3rd be prepared pick up ez meals to cook a case of gatoraid and some epsom salt for the bath....a hot soak goes a long way with most of the symptoms....I have said this a million times but it  holds true....''you just got to be ok without being ok"...this should be your Mantra for the next week....you have been around a wile so you know the drill the first 4 days are the hardest with day 5 as the turning point....you will need to force the fluids....when the symptoms get bad time for a nice hot soak....try to line up so good funny T/V netflics is good most people dont sleep so vegging out on the tv will help.....make yourself comfortable get a blanket and roll up on the sofa....music helps so have that lined up also let us know when you start this forum was priceless when I detoxed....let us know the symptoms your having we have a lot of home cures  you can never post to much so post post and post some more your not in this alone where out here for you....I look forward  to helping you lets cut that ball and chain together this is life after drugs we will talk about the critical part called aftercare as you go along...may God be with you....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gnarly<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[Mojo64]

Hello - I am new to the board.  Saw your post.

I know exactly how you feel!!!   I was up to 30 Norco 10mgs a day!   (for about 13 months - I built up to 30 - started out taking 3/day then - up, up up!)

Have you looked into Suboxone????    I personally went cold turkey for 5 days as my prescriptions were late in arriving (I ordered off the net).  I had no choice and I did not know  about the Suboxone at the time).

I then did a search for suboxone and found 2 docs in my area who prescribe it.    One actually told me to come in that day!!!!   I was still taking the Norco - which I told him.  He was very cool and just told me to call him when I started on the Sub.   Well - I was scared to death!   I did not think the Sub would work - very doubtful in general.

The first day you have to wait 12-24 hours before you can take your first dose.   I just slept in that day and by the time I woke up, I only had to wait about one hour before taking the sub.   My doc told me that I needed to have at least 2 withdraw symptoms before starting it.  Well - I did.  I started to feel cold and clammy and then came the diarrhea.    I then took one-quarter of a pill - 2mgs.  I placed it under my tongue and let it disolve.     In 15 minutes, I felt normal again!!!!   Within an hour - I swear - I felt totally normal!!!!!

You gradually increase you dose so you can find the right dose for you.   First day, 1 tablet, 2nd day, 2 tablets, etc.   I have stabilized at 2 and 1/2 pills a day.  

I went back to work the 2nd day!   Actually, I could have worked the first day if I really wanted to (I'm a massage therapist).  These pills are amazing!!!    As I said, I was very skeptical at first - but no more!  

The greatest thing about this drug is that it has a long half-life, so when it is time to go off, the doc will just taper you down and then you have no problem getting off of it!  Also, your brain is repairing while you are on it - that is something that was really important to me!

So - do yourself a favor and at least try the suboxone!   I myself tried the "taper" method and it just did not work for me.   If pills were around - I would take enough to feel that high that we all know about!!!!

Good luck to you!!!  I wish you the best whatever you decide to do!

God Bless - Mojo

[RitaJo60]

Ok, last night was a BAD night, but GOOD to.... he did awful things...but all I took was a xanax and then just hit the bed.

This morning I did take 3 -5/500's.  Then I won't take any for another 4-5 hours.  I wish to God I could get my hands on my script.  This would be so much easier.  I have to borrow xanax for now.  Find hydros to taper.  augh......  

I HAVE to do this.  I keep saying these three things...if you do not stop this.... jail, mental ward, or death.  I have an 11 year old boy who needs me.

Thank you for letting me come here.  This place is helping me sooooo much.

Rita

[FLaddict]

OMG!  I am so sorry.. no that isn't easy but you are showing yourself that you can do it no matter what.. Keep fighting and keep posting.. Vent if you need to... We are here to help..

[RitaJo60]

I am doing better than I was with them.  I just have to keep this mind set.  Right now i am going through one of the most difficult things that life has ever handed me out and it is soooo hard, but I am doing soooo much better.  

My husband has been having an affair with my best friend....this has been going on for two years and so many times he said he has cut it off only for me to find him there at her house.  When bad stuff happens and the way we are living...I tended to self medicate myself.  I now have to reverse all that... more than likely going to be going through a divorce and getting myself back on track without the use of drugs.  It is all so hard.  I had the worst panic attack in the world today.  I haven't had one for quite a while.  but, it was so bad...chest pains, heart pounding and couldn't breath.  I got a xanax in me and breathed through it.  

My life right now is so rotten and awful.  I feel used and abused.  And, this drug thing has NOT helped at all.

Thank you for listening to me.

[tzt2lady]

Almost all of us start out with legit pain.  It just happens because we need more and more to feel the same effect and soon it doesnt matter how many we take we still cant catch that initial buzz we once had.  
The important thing is that we are doing something about it now.  You are starting your taper and thats what matters.  I admire your ability to ask for help.  
Best to you
tzt

[RitaJo60]

ok, that sounds good..... I just wish I had mine available to me but can't get my filled till the 15th.  

I know I can do this.  I want to do this.  I NEED to do this.  How does this stuff happen?  

It all started with the dang fibromyalgia.  Then, I have had major marital problems....I some how realized or THOUGHT that taking the pain med HELPED with my nerves.  Yeah right.  all I have done is manage to get myself into a big mess.

[Jessica111182]

I&#39;ve been addicted for almost 12 years because of kidney stones, it&#39;s been a constant uphill battle. I&#39;ve been to several rehabs and halfway houses and have learned a lot. Yes u need to admit u have a problem but u should go to a detox center if ur actively using so ur withdrawals won&#39;t be unbearable then u need to go to meetings and reach out to other recovering addicts. U will meet some awesome ppl who know exactly what ur going thru and will help u anyway they can. This is a cunning, baffling and powerful disease and u can&#39;t fight it alone. Good luck and msg me if you need to talk.

[FLaddict]

Don't take the Oxy... its a much stronger med and will really mess up tapering... I would not resort to that unless its your only option..

So you are taking about 100-150mgs of hydro per day??  If I am reading you right.. Can you start by taking those 30mgs ones every 4 hours? that would be 4 per day.. during the 16 hours you are awake?  then we can go from there..

[RitaJo60]

Well, that is what I am asking you....how SHOULD I taper?  Right now due to being out of my own script I am having to get some.  The only thing I can get my hands on right now are 30mlg capsules of hydrocodone.  I also have but have not taken the 80 of the oxycontins that someone gave me. They told me to cut them into six pieces and taper with those.  

I am confused.  I don't want this in my life.  I want off these or at least beable to take them the way they are prescribed to me.

Rita

[FLaddict]

Ok explain how you are tapering again??  Maybe I can help..

[RitaJo60]

Some one ask how many I take...well, it depends.  I can take up to 10-15 norco's 10/325 or the 7/325 or if I only get the 5's I can take more.  If I am running low some how I can make them last.  Right now I am making them last.
The only thing I can get my hands on right now is 30 ml hydro's in a capsule.  I figured to taper of those I am going to have to break the capsules and then divide them up.  That is all that is around right now.  I need something and that is it.  

I took 2 and a half this morning when I got out of bed.  I was going to wait at least 5 hours before taking what maybe 1 10?  Then tonight a 10 then....do I sound like a nut?

I am prescribed 3 7.5/325 a day.  How I got off track is beyond me.  I feel like such a fool.

[RitaJo60]

Hi guys...ok, today is the day.  Although, I might have already screwed up.  I don't know if I mention but mornings are my hardest.  My hardest.  Just getting up out of bed with out taking something for the pain is awful.  That is another problem...after I get past this mentally needing these damn things...what am I going to do for pain?  I don't want to be a drug addict but what am I going to do for the ligitimate pain that I have?

[PrettyIs]

I  just came back to look at something and realized you did the first half of what I read.... are YOU a DR.??? Great information. I am going to print it up as I do have a friend in my inner circle who is nearing the end of his rope. I want to help him all I can, hes like a  brother to me. So, Thank You. Thank you very very much for all that great info.  :)

[PrettyIs]

That was so informative...Are you a DR.??  I am actually a full week clean today!!! I have been so foggy, I thought it was six days until my husband told me no,its been 7!!! I really loved the info. on the taper. Thats how we did it. I really wish I had found this website BEFORE I had taken my leap,but I am still overjoyed to find you now!!! My husband had to control my aper. He left me the pills before leaving for work and I pretty much did like you said, kinda... I won't say it was painless but it had to be better than cold turkey I would imagine. I had to do the taper because I never want to be an addict again. I tried to accept those days as a final type of closure to a very hard ,struggling, lost and trying time in my life. I know I never want to go back to countig out how many pills I have left and all of that, thats why I came clean to my man. HE is honest. A more honest man you will probably never meet, seriously, and when I came clean, he yelled, he was dissappointed and then he helped me. I agree with your reccomendation...Start to quit now.  Your gonna quit sometime anyway, why not now??? :)  

[GA Guy]

This is a work in progress...something I've been working on off and on for the last couple of weeks. It's not considered complete, but has lots of info from lots of sources. If any of the "old timers" have anything to add, let me know and I'll add it to the document. I hope to use this to post a general "how to" every couple of days or so.

Listed below are suggestions for detoxing and quitting an opiate addiction. They are just suggestions compiled from the detox plans of people that have gone through cold turkey detox before. They are just that, suggestions, and any detox plan is best when done under a doctor's care. Consult your doctor before trying any of the suggestions below.
This is prewritten for anyone who is beginning, or planning on beginning, a cold turkey withdrawal to opiates. This includes drugs such as tramadol (Ultracet and Ultram) codeine (Tylenol #3, #4), Darvocet, Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Norco, Lortab and derivatives),  Oxycodone (Endocet, Percocet, Oxycontin), Morphine, Demerol. Fentanyl, and Dilaudud. There are many other opiates not listed, so if you don’t see it listed, you can still use these suggestions if it’s an opiate based addiction. None of these apply to benzodiazepine based addictions. These addictions should never be dealt with by going cold turkey. Always consult a doctor for a detox plan for benzos.

First of all, opiate withdrawals are uncomfortable, but rarely life threatening. You may think you’re going to die, but most of the withdrawal symptoms are just very uncomfortable. If possible, take some time off work or schedule a week or so in order to fully detox. You will honestly not feel like doing much anyway. Opiate withdrawal symptoms usually start 12-24 hours after your last dose. But, the timing of withdrawal symptoms depends upon the drug taken, length of time you’ve been taking it, and how you react to medications. The physical withdrawals usually last 3-7 days, with days 3 and 4 being the worst. Once again, this is all dependent on the person. You can expect these symptoms. Dilated pupils, diarrhea, runny nose, goose bumps, abdominal pain, stomach cramps, sweating, agitation, anxiety, nausea, vomiting, leg cramps, general aches and pains, and sleeplessness. This list is not absolute. You may experience all of these symptoms, only some of them, or other symptoms. Again, we are all different. Below is the famous Thomas Recipe. It gives some general information along with supplements that help with the withdrawal symptoms. The only thing I would add to this list is a blood pressure drug named clonidine. It effectively lowers the blood pressure and lessens many of the withdrawal symptoms. Most any doctor will prescribe it if you’re honest as to why you need it. Discuss dosages and frequency with your doctor.

Thomas Recipe:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5. During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it. At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help. With breakfast, take the mineral supplement. As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

[FLaddict]

I suggest that if you are gonna taper, you give up your pills to someone you trust.. Addicts cannot follow their own taper schedule.. rarely do they follow through to the end of a taper.. They tend to "borrow" from other doses. Or take 2-3 at a time.. Tapers have to be done slow and steady.. no spiking of the doses, sticking to a strict schedule..  here is an article I found helpful with tapering.

Time for some technical talk... One of the things which increases "dependence" is a spike in drug blood plasma levels. Addicts do this on purpose to get a "high". They do it by Snorting (Very fast delivery), IV Injections, Chewing up meds and taking on an empty stomach.

The above all produce the most amount of drug in the blood in an attempt to get a buzz. These spikes are one of the reasons we addicts get hooked faster than a COMPLIANT Chronic Pain Patient.

Being compliant means they take only as directed. The goal of compliance is to maintain an even blood plasma at the minimum amount to treat PAIN and NOT to produce euphoria (a high).

Since the blood plasma levels are lower, the levels of dopamine at the synaptic cleft do not spike so the receptor sites do not downregulate or decrease in number in response to the initially MUCH higher level of dopamine released as a result of spiking.

Addictive dosing behaviors, the large doses associated to Spike the blood plasma level, vs the lower low dosing and more often which is the KEY factor to the physical changes the brain makes which cause dependency.

Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.

Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.

Addiction is what makes you take more and more, spiking doses, etc. This in turn increases dependence. The higher your dependence the higher the tollerance... Round and round you go. The addiction merry-go-round.

How to break the cycle? The only way is to change the behavior. That is a very difficult thing. Pain is usually a very good motivator. So is Euphoria. When the pain out weighs the euphoria one starts to consider breaking the cycle. Unfortunately the pain being eliminated by the drug is a driving force. Then the addict associated the RELIEF of th pain to the drug instead of the drug being the CAUSE of the pain.

SOoooooooo what to do? Break the cycle.

Many have to hit bottom to do that. That's the point where the pain of using overwhelms the relief of using. It's an emotional point which is different for different people. Not every one has to hit a bottom to quit. The sooner you quit the less pain and suffering you have to experience.

For folks who are on smaller doses and their disease has not progressed very far, they have not felt the extent of pain addiction can cause. Only conceptualizing how bad it can get may not be good enough to motivate a person early in addiction to quit.

Intellectually we know what lays ahead. We hear the truth from others, but yet we continue to use. It is not until we get a glimpse of the pain that lays ahead do we become to believe we need to quit. One HAS to believe that in fact addiction does lead to the loss of everything and eventually Jails Institutions and Death.

Addiction is a lot easier to nip in the bud physically but maybe not emotionally because one has not experienced the pain first hand. Some need more pain than others to quit. Some don't make it and end up end stage and their addiction wins.

If you want to get off of the pills you have to change your behavior.

1) STOP SNORTING your pills!
2) Stop spiking your dose!
3) stop taking enough to get high

You will never quit until you do that. Weather you can or not is up to you.

You have to come to a point where you make the decision you want to quit. The en you have to make a plan then you have to execute that plan. SIMPLE .... but not easy.

The solution from a clinical point of view for you at your point of addiction is so easy. A simple taper, and change the behavior. In short break the cycle.

How to do a taper is easy. Changing the behavior is the HARD part, but you have to want to change.

If you are taking 6 pills a day... then start taking them in even doses and don't take like 3-4 at a time. 24 hrs divided by 6 = 4 hrs. So only take one pill every 4 hrs. Then take 5 pills in 24 hrs. That's 4.8 hrs. Then 4 pills a day... break pills into 1/2's so you have 8 1/2 pills. and take 1/2 a pill every 3 hrs. Etc.

If you can't stick to a taper give the pills to a friend to dispense.

Mean while .. you have to start changing the way you think and the things you do... You should educate yourself... Good place to do all of that is NA or AA. It's FREE and takes up time. It forces you to be doing something other than sitting around with nothing to do and just thinking about using.

It's not the only way, but it's a good place to start. Take what you need from it, and leave the rest.

If you take the same amount or less every day and don't spike your dose you will eventually quit.

30 mg of Hydro can be tapered to 0 in 2-4 weeks painlessly. The PAWS will be minimal too.

The ball is in your court. We can not make you do anything. Only YOU can.

When you are ready is up to you. If you need to stay "out there" using and see for yourself how bad it will get that's up to you.

My recommendation.. Start to QUIT now! It will be a whole lot easier.

[road2recovery]

Welcome, you have made the first step...how many are you taking a day? and for how long?
you will get so much support here., i promise you are at the right place..
I was taking from 10 to 15 a day, and now i am at 5...I take hydros also but really took whatever, codiene, even cough syrup(hate to admit that), lorcet,norco's..didn't really matter
Like you i want my life back, and want to feel like i was before this nitemare..
Good luck and keep posting..
R2R