Aa
lorazepam addiction
Due to another health scare at Xmas,I got myself into such a state of anxiety I was prescribed Lorazepam(Ativan) at a dosage of 1mg,4 times a day.As my other health issues are being resolved(Probably IBS),I am now having trouble getting off the Ativan.I was on the 4 mg a day for about 3 weeks,and have not been able to get below 2.5-3mg per day usage.I am finding that I am experiencing more like withdrawal symptoms than anxiety(tho it does creep in).Mornings and mid-afternoons are the hardest.Altogether I have been on this drug for just over a month.I was an alcoholic,and have been sober for 16 years,and am desperate to not develop another addiction,tho I feel it may be too late for that!
I live in a rural area,alone,and have little access to groups etc(and am not a ``joiner`anyway) so most of my info,other than from rural doctors,comes from the internet.
It seems that really the only way to rid myself of this drug is by a prolonged tapering of dosage.Can U give me some kind of schedule to follow to ease this withdrawal please.I have been experiencing a little depression over this(and lack of activity),and want to make this transition to drug-free as simple as possible.I live in northern Canada,and the winter has been severe,so getting out for exercise has been difficult,but I do get out every day for walks,and have use of a swimming pool.....I have found that exercise helps,but it`s not easy this time of year.My current prescription is for .5mg,and I have been trying to hold my use to 2.5-3mg,spread out over the day.I try cutting them in half,but find I need the other half an hour or 2 later.A scedule would really help me out....thanx
I live in a rural area,alone,and have little access to groups etc(and am not a ``joiner`anyway) so most of my info,other than from rural doctors,comes from the internet.
It seems that really the only way to rid myself of this drug is by a prolonged tapering of dosage.Can U give me some kind of schedule to follow to ease this withdrawal please.I have been experiencing a little depression over this(and lack of activity),and want to make this transition to drug-free as simple as possible.I live in northern Canada,and the winter has been severe,so getting out for exercise has been difficult,but I do get out every day for walks,and have use of a swimming pool.....I have found that exercise helps,but it`s not easy this time of year.My current prescription is for .5mg,and I have been trying to hold my use to 2.5-3mg,spread out over the day.I try cutting them in half,but find I need the other half an hour or 2 later.A scedule would really help me out....thanx
Discuss with your Doctor a proper tapering plan.
It would consist of changing you lorazepam over to a longer lasting benzodiazapine like Valium or Klonopin.
That would be the first step.
Your lorazepam has a short half life meaning that it only stays in your blood for about 4-12 hours "even though you may only feel the effects for 4 hours, it is still in you"
Klonopin and Valium is the proper Benzo to taper from because of the extremely long half life.
Valium would be the first choice for crossover, because it has a longer half life then Klonopin.
After you become stable, take it slow for your taper. ONLY YOU KNOWS YOU AND HOW YOU FEEL
Dont let Docs tell you, that you havent become dependent on it, because thats false.
A person can become dependent on Benzos in as little as 14 days.
But say for instance you cross over to Klonopin.
Your normal dose of Ativan is 4 Mgs.
Thats approx 2 mgs of Klonopin, you would take 1mg in the morning, and 1 mg at night. It will take about 2 weeks to achieve a steady state in your system to prevent the yoyo effect of short acting benzos.
I would say give it about 3 weeks "or depending on how you feel" to begin your taper.
The slower the better, you should cut 5-10 % of your dose about every 3 weeks.
The first week you might feel slight withdraws but shouldnt be much.
The reasoning behind switching is because it will create a VERY SLOW rate of decline of benzodiazapine in you system, making it more suitable for your body to adjust at a more even rate.
When done right allot "not all" feel little to no withdraw.
even when your down to say 1/4 mg of Klonopin, I suggest tapering from that even slower.
Slow and steady will win the race.
I just got off my Klonopin 15 days ago.
Last dose was 1/4 mg and I went cold turkey from that HAHAH WORSE 2 WEEKS EVER!..well not worse then the original anxiety that was there that caused me to get on them.
Mornings and afternoons were horrendous, and couldnt function, but nights were pretty good.
The reasoning behind that is that our bodies create more Cortisol in the mornings, Cortisol is the chemical responsible for the "fight or flight" feeling, hence making the morning withdraws worse, gradually through the day the Cortisol levels out, making nights a bit better.
Vitamin C controls cortisol, You can try taking a recommended dose before sleep, or right when you wake up, and give it about a week and it might work for you like it worked for me.
A good Multi Vitamin B helps promote a healthy nervous system.
But withdraws from Benzodiazapines can make your body more sensitive to different things so if you experience a bad effect from something like a Vitamin or simple cup of milk, try to stay away from those items during your withdraw.
Also drink allot of water, and look for "windows" or normality.
Theres allot to the withdraws, I found the Physiological the worse.
But I experienced HIGH blood pressure, headache, blurred vision, tiredness/ tired eyes, inside feeling like bees vibrating, irrational thoughts or intrusive thoughts, excessive worry "for nothing" shiny "yellowing and bloodshot" of eyes, slight feeling of vertigo "wasnt to bad"
Ive also stopped my prozac that was causing chest pains "Im 22 so what the heck?" and Ive noticed a improvement with my withdraws after quitting the Prozac.
I dont think I was a candidate for AD's anyways, Im not depressed, lol
I found the first 4 days extremely bad, after that it was alternating days, and now I feel pretty good, just have a slight depersonalization feeling, and tiredness, but all and all not to bad.
It would consist of changing you lorazepam over to a longer lasting benzodiazapine like Valium or Klonopin.
That would be the first step.
Your lorazepam has a short half life meaning that it only stays in your blood for about 4-12 hours "even though you may only feel the effects for 4 hours, it is still in you"
Klonopin and Valium is the proper Benzo to taper from because of the extremely long half life.
Valium would be the first choice for crossover, because it has a longer half life then Klonopin.
After you become stable, take it slow for your taper. ONLY YOU KNOWS YOU AND HOW YOU FEEL
Dont let Docs tell you, that you havent become dependent on it, because thats false.
A person can become dependent on Benzos in as little as 14 days.
But say for instance you cross over to Klonopin.
Your normal dose of Ativan is 4 Mgs.
Thats approx 2 mgs of Klonopin, you would take 1mg in the morning, and 1 mg at night. It will take about 2 weeks to achieve a steady state in your system to prevent the yoyo effect of short acting benzos.
I would say give it about 3 weeks "or depending on how you feel" to begin your taper.
The slower the better, you should cut 5-10 % of your dose about every 3 weeks.
The first week you might feel slight withdraws but shouldnt be much.
The reasoning behind switching is because it will create a VERY SLOW rate of decline of benzodiazapine in you system, making it more suitable for your body to adjust at a more even rate.
When done right allot "not all" feel little to no withdraw.
even when your down to say 1/4 mg of Klonopin, I suggest tapering from that even slower.
Slow and steady will win the race.
I just got off my Klonopin 15 days ago.
Last dose was 1/4 mg and I went cold turkey from that HAHAH WORSE 2 WEEKS EVER!..well not worse then the original anxiety that was there that caused me to get on them.
Mornings and afternoons were horrendous, and couldnt function, but nights were pretty good.
The reasoning behind that is that our bodies create more Cortisol in the mornings, Cortisol is the chemical responsible for the "fight or flight" feeling, hence making the morning withdraws worse, gradually through the day the Cortisol levels out, making nights a bit better.
Vitamin C controls cortisol, You can try taking a recommended dose before sleep, or right when you wake up, and give it about a week and it might work for you like it worked for me.
A good Multi Vitamin B helps promote a healthy nervous system.
But withdraws from Benzodiazapines can make your body more sensitive to different things so if you experience a bad effect from something like a Vitamin or simple cup of milk, try to stay away from those items during your withdraw.
Also drink allot of water, and look for "windows" or normality.
Theres allot to the withdraws, I found the Physiological the worse.
But I experienced HIGH blood pressure, headache, blurred vision, tiredness/ tired eyes, inside feeling like bees vibrating, irrational thoughts or intrusive thoughts, excessive worry "for nothing" shiny "yellowing and bloodshot" of eyes, slight feeling of vertigo "wasnt to bad"
Ive also stopped my prozac that was causing chest pains "Im 22 so what the heck?" and Ive noticed a improvement with my withdraws after quitting the Prozac.
I dont think I was a candidate for AD's anyways, Im not depressed, lol
I found the first 4 days extremely bad, after that it was alternating days, and now I feel pretty good, just have a slight depersonalization feeling, and tiredness, but all and all not to bad.
Thanx alot for the speedy and very involved reply.I have heard of this method but kinda had trouble rationalizing the move from one addictive to another.But it does make sense the way U have explained it.I will be seeing my doctor this coming week and discuss it with her.
U are soooo right about the first half of the day thing.....I find myself waking up at 5 am with a jolt and running,with my stupid foggy brain,for a .5 of the Lorazepam,then trying to chill out for a couple hours in bed...till it at least the sun starts to come up.
Any thoughts on exercise or herbals?I have been trying a little Sleepy-time tea,and not sure if the effects are placebo or not.....Valarian too.
Found a British website that says exactly what U do...
http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/lorazepam.html
...tho I must say when I mentioned this method to my mother she freaked!
Do U know,how accepted in the medical profesion is this method...any links to maybe a
reputable(read official) medicall site that shows this method?...I have a feeling my back-woods doctor is gonna take some convincing!
Thanx Heaps!
U are soooo right about the first half of the day thing.....I find myself waking up at 5 am with a jolt and running,with my stupid foggy brain,for a .5 of the Lorazepam,then trying to chill out for a couple hours in bed...till it at least the sun starts to come up.
Any thoughts on exercise or herbals?I have been trying a little Sleepy-time tea,and not sure if the effects are placebo or not.....Valarian too.
Found a British website that says exactly what U do...
http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/lorazepam.html
...tho I must say when I mentioned this method to my mother she freaked!
Do U know,how accepted in the medical profesion is this method...any links to maybe a
reputable(read official) medicall site that shows this method?...I have a feeling my back-woods doctor is gonna take some convincing!
Thanx Heaps!
Valarian does hold very strong sedative properties for a herbal, but Im not to sure of how well it works for people that have already been taking a medicine that already inhibits and munipulates thr GABA. I drink sleepy time tea too, lol I think it works mildly for me atleast.
I have a few good sites for you, if you would like
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/benzo/ "great support group"
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm
The other one is on DR Heather Ashton, who is well known in the phyc field and Benzo.
She is the "mother" of "mothers little helper" She developed the crossover technique and has very high success.
I have a few good sites for you, if you would like
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/benzo/ "great support group"
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm
The other one is on DR Heather Ashton, who is well known in the phyc field and Benzo.
She is the "mother" of "mothers little helper" She developed the crossover technique and has very high success.
Thanx...I found a doctor yesterday who has signed on.We are following the schedule found on a UK site,
http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/lorazepam.html
which is really Ashtons method,maybe a bit slower,starting from the beginning,even tho I had got myself down a bit from the 4mg/day I was not very comfortable,was cheating/yo-yoing just a bit,but basically on th edge of withdrawal constantly.Doctor felt my addiction started at 4mg,so we should start the program from that too.My problem has been waking at 4 or 5 in the morning after going to bed at 12.
That's when I was waking with a jolt,and taking .25mg just to maybe doze for a couple hours.So for sleep,I hope to find something that gets me over that part.....not looking for a solid 8 hours,but 6 or so would be heaven.I have tried sleepytime,but find it puts me out,but doesn;t last.I'm a tad nervouse about the antihistamine aids,like tylenol pm.....just another drug to add to the mix y'know?
From your experience,how long do U think it will be before I am basically functional....the past couple weeks I have been far from that....gotta get back to work soon.
Also,can I expect to feel much withdrawal at every stage of reduction?
I don't wanna sound like too much of a woos,but after the past 3 weeks(and my withdrawal from booze 16 years ago) I be looking for painless recovery,or cose to it.
I found the past weeks that while I was trying to switch over to Valium on my own,that it didn't get me more that about 4 or 5 hours of relief,and was pretty miiserable for a couple hours before next dosage was due....does Valium build up in the system and then sorta smooth out it's effects over a longer period of time?That's really important to me at this point,as I don;t wanna cheat...I really am commited and wanna do this right.
BTW,finding a doctor to go with this wasn't easy.Ended up calling a methedone clinic to get assistance in finding one,and he did take alot of convincing.I think up here in Canada they have a very different,and not very kind,philosophy on drug addiction.Every call I made,from regular GPs,shrinks and addicion facilities,they all wanted me to go into a detox and go cold turkey....which at this point in my life and experience woulda killed me.The changeover/taper method seems to be well accepted from what I find on the net,but up here,not at all.
Thanx for your help and time...I reallly appreciate it.
http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/lorazepam.html
which is really Ashtons method,maybe a bit slower,starting from the beginning,even tho I had got myself down a bit from the 4mg/day I was not very comfortable,was cheating/yo-yoing just a bit,but basically on th edge of withdrawal constantly.Doctor felt my addiction started at 4mg,so we should start the program from that too.My problem has been waking at 4 or 5 in the morning after going to bed at 12.
That's when I was waking with a jolt,and taking .25mg just to maybe doze for a couple hours.So for sleep,I hope to find something that gets me over that part.....not looking for a solid 8 hours,but 6 or so would be heaven.I have tried sleepytime,but find it puts me out,but doesn;t last.I'm a tad nervouse about the antihistamine aids,like tylenol pm.....just another drug to add to the mix y'know?
From your experience,how long do U think it will be before I am basically functional....the past couple weeks I have been far from that....gotta get back to work soon.
Also,can I expect to feel much withdrawal at every stage of reduction?
I don't wanna sound like too much of a woos,but after the past 3 weeks(and my withdrawal from booze 16 years ago) I be looking for painless recovery,or cose to it.
I found the past weeks that while I was trying to switch over to Valium on my own,that it didn't get me more that about 4 or 5 hours of relief,and was pretty miiserable for a couple hours before next dosage was due....does Valium build up in the system and then sorta smooth out it's effects over a longer period of time?That's really important to me at this point,as I don;t wanna cheat...I really am commited and wanna do this right.
BTW,finding a doctor to go with this wasn't easy.Ended up calling a methedone clinic to get assistance in finding one,and he did take alot of convincing.I think up here in Canada they have a very different,and not very kind,philosophy on drug addiction.Every call I made,from regular GPs,shrinks and addicion facilities,they all wanted me to go into a detox and go cold turkey....which at this point in my life and experience woulda killed me.The changeover/taper method seems to be well accepted from what I find on the net,but up here,not at all.
Thanx for your help and time...I reallly appreciate it.
Herre in the states is the exact same way, but Docs for some reason dont like to prescribe Valuim, even though its considered one of the best...
Im very happy for you that you was one of the lucky ones who found a SMART Doctor.
Yes Valium builds a steady state in your plasma like Klonopin, when you frist switch over you might feel a bit tired from it, but thats better then the other.
It take about 2 weeks for it to build up, plus you have to have the proper equivalent of valium to ativan.
That means for your 4mg dose of ativan you will need 40 mgs of Valium
I believe its a 1mg of ativan = 10 mgs valium "double check me though"
You might even wanna go to like 45-50 for starting dose, then start your taper "whatever your Doc sees best fit.
You will probably go through a little withdraws at first but after a week or 2 they should start to diminish.
And of course for the best results, It better to split the targeted dose in half and take the half twice a day " or 3 times, whatever floats yer boat, lol"
Definently DONT CHEAT, just rise it out. It usually gets better within a few weeks.
If you are going slow enough you shouldnt feel much of withdraws, if any.
Ive noticed people start to feel it when there down to the l;ower dosing, around the end of the taper. THATS WHEN YOU GO EVEN SLOWER!
And when you get down to say 1 mg valium dont let the Doc say "its just a itty bitty amount" because thats definently not true either, taper even from that at EXTREMELY LOW RATES, even find a compounding pharmicy that will change it over to liquid for you so you can take minute amounts, that will make it allot better also.
Im very happy for you that you was one of the lucky ones who found a SMART Doctor.
Yes Valium builds a steady state in your plasma like Klonopin, when you frist switch over you might feel a bit tired from it, but thats better then the other.
It take about 2 weeks for it to build up, plus you have to have the proper equivalent of valium to ativan.
That means for your 4mg dose of ativan you will need 40 mgs of Valium
I believe its a 1mg of ativan = 10 mgs valium "double check me though"
You might even wanna go to like 45-50 for starting dose, then start your taper "whatever your Doc sees best fit.
You will probably go through a little withdraws at first but after a week or 2 they should start to diminish.
And of course for the best results, It better to split the targeted dose in half and take the half twice a day " or 3 times, whatever floats yer boat, lol"
Definently DONT CHEAT, just rise it out. It usually gets better within a few weeks.
If you are going slow enough you shouldnt feel much of withdraws, if any.
Ive noticed people start to feel it when there down to the l;ower dosing, around the end of the taper. THATS WHEN YOU GO EVEN SLOWER!
And when you get down to say 1 mg valium dont let the Doc say "its just a itty bitty amount" because thats definently not true either, taper even from that at EXTREMELY LOW RATES, even find a compounding pharmicy that will change it over to liquid for you so you can take minute amounts, that will make it allot better also.
Right now,on stage one of the schedule,I am on 2mg ativan and 5mg valuim,4 times a day......the math adds up to what you had suggested...I m on and equal dosage of 4mg a day,which is where I starting this addiction 6 weeks or so ago.I think my past history of alcohol abuse,tho 16 years ago,has been a determining factor as to how fast I got addicted,and it's severity.Tho original doc knew this history,he still prescribed it...should never have happened.My mother says I should,at the very least,go tear a wide strip off the guy....but I'm not the vindictive type;)
So here I am at day 3 of the switchover,and other tad feeling a tad dozy and stupid for about an hour or so after dosing,I feel pretty good.Really felt the need for the mid-day doseage,but the evening one not so much.I will stick to the schedule to the letter,mainly to let the valium build up,then the ativan will get dropped altogether in a couple weeks.
This ashton thing takes a long time,most stages of taper taking 2-4 weeks.My hope is that once the weather warms up and I can get back to work I will be able to make most of these stages the shorther duration.I am so determined to beat this!...yet am a woos,so will not push it....if I need 3 or 4 weeks at any stage I will take 'em......determination aside,I know Ii will cheat if it hurts.
Thanx again...and good luck as U get down to the lower doses.
Oh ya...everything I have read says what U do...getting off those last weenie doses is the hardest.
Tortise and the hare kinda thing I guess.
Cheers
So here I am at day 3 of the switchover,and other tad feeling a tad dozy and stupid for about an hour or so after dosing,I feel pretty good.Really felt the need for the mid-day doseage,but the evening one not so much.I will stick to the schedule to the letter,mainly to let the valium build up,then the ativan will get dropped altogether in a couple weeks.
This ashton thing takes a long time,most stages of taper taking 2-4 weeks.My hope is that once the weather warms up and I can get back to work I will be able to make most of these stages the shorther duration.I am so determined to beat this!...yet am a woos,so will not push it....if I need 3 or 4 weeks at any stage I will take 'em......determination aside,I know Ii will cheat if it hurts.
Thanx again...and good luck as U get down to the lower doses.
Oh ya...everything I have read says what U do...getting off those last weenie doses is the hardest.
Tortise and the hare kinda thing I guess.
Cheers
..actually got 6 hours sleep last night!
Suppose that's not such an accomplishment seeing as I am on a slightly higher starting dose to facilitate the program...I am on drugs after all!
But why it may be more significant is this may allow me to break that 4am pattern of waking,freaking,and taking a weenie dose of ativan to get thru the following couple hours.
At this point I will take any positive change as a victory,no matter how minor;)
Suppose that's not such an accomplishment seeing as I am on a slightly higher starting dose to facilitate the program...I am on drugs after all!
But why it may be more significant is this may allow me to break that 4am pattern of waking,freaking,and taking a weenie dose of ativan to get thru the following couple hours.
At this point I will take any positive change as a victory,no matter how minor;)
oooops....that dosage i stated in previouse post was wrong....it's .5 ativan 5mg valium,4 times a day....tottal of 2mg ativan,20mg valium.
Sorry bout that...Still kinda stupid here;)
Sorry bout that...Still kinda stupid here;)
LOL, I feel ya, Im always feeling ditsy "feel like a blonde cheerleader, lol, even though Im a dark hair dude, haha"
Im off now, even though I should be on them, but I went CT off of .25 and still had a pretty hell of a time.
Definently, Alchohol inhibits the same receptors, and can influence the addiction/ tollerance issues.
Good luck on your DT:) God Bless
Im off now, even though I should be on them, but I went CT off of .25 and still had a pretty hell of a time.
Definently, Alchohol inhibits the same receptors, and can influence the addiction/ tollerance issues.
Good luck on your DT:) God Bless
Jake,U are a prince among men....your help will not be forgotten.
For now I am stable(or close to it) and I am determinded to NEVER vary from my scheduled doses
CK from .25....that sounds lie such a weenie amount,and it was still a hard time?....Hmmmmmm...OI"m sure I will call on U again.
Huge thanx.
Will be back at ya when the next,hopefully minor,crisis hits!
Cheers
For now I am stable(or close to it) and I am determinded to NEVER vary from my scheduled doses
CK from .25....that sounds lie such a weenie amount,and it was still a hard time?....Hmmmmmm...OI"m sure I will call on U again.
Huge thanx.
Will be back at ya when the next,hopefully minor,crisis hits!
Cheers
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