Please! Help for my daughter.

[pattig]

Can this all be psychological?  In Oct. 2007 daughter started feeling nauseous every day.  In Dec. of 2007 got severe vertigo.  In Feb. of 2007 started getting "severe pressure" in her head.  So here we are May 2008 and every day she either has nausea, dizziness or pressure, or all three.  She is constantly questioning what different symptoms in her body could be... flickering lights, sharp pain in top of head, back ache. etc, etc, etc,  She is only 17 years old and repeatedly says she is not anxious or depressed about anything.

She has had a brain MRI, brain CT Scan, every possible blood test her primary dr. could think of, has seen ENT's, neurologists, endocrinologist and gastroenterologist.  She has also seen a neuro psychologist, and two clinical/psychiatric social workers.  Has gone for acupressure and massage therapy.

Where do I go next?  Thanks.

[DIZZYGRL]

I just read through this discussion and I'm very interested in it. I experience all of your daughters symptoms except the back ache and neck ache. does she have that symptom all the time or is it just the dizziness and pressure that bothers her the most? Im 25 and I have been dealing with all of this since I was 18 and I have a mom just like you who does everything possible to help me. I cant even count how many nights she has driven me to the e.r. when she knows that they wont find anything wrong. to this day we are still exploring different doctors to get answers. this is the first time that i am starting to take any meds because I have gotton so bad.  But me sounding like your daughter doesnt believe that it is anxiety and I feel strongly that there really is something there wrong with me that the doctors are missing. I spend a lot of time on the computer too researching every possible illness or disease there is. ...just wondering if she has stopped doing some things because of panick attacks or if she experiences them?

[pattig]

Thanks again everyone for your comments and advice.  If anyone else has anything to add, please do so.  I will post back after our upcoming appointments.  Daughter is now feeling very very ill....  this too shall pass, I hope.  

[pattig]

Scarlet 37

I am really interested in the "sleep disorder" scenario that you describe.  So how does this get diagnosed?  Because we have an appointment with a psychiatrist in 2 weeks.  
Please respond back if you read this.

pg

[scarlet37]

  Please talk to your doctor about sleep disorders. Many of them will  often present as psychiatric disorders. I will not say that depression and anxiety will not cause real physical symptoms because they in fact do. I just wanted to give you another avenue to investigate.

  It took 2yrs or so to finally figure out I had a sleeing disorder called Narcolepsy. I had been through 9 doctors including a highly reputable sleep doctor and neurologist who kept claiming I was bi-polar and changing me from med to med. I finally smartened up and took all my medical records to a psychiatrist who specializes in neuro disorders. It only took them 45 minutes to know my diagnosis. I am now recieving proper treatment and function better than I have in more than 2 yrs.

  The psych route isn't always a bad one to follow - just get one you and your daughter feel comfortable with.

  Best Wishes for a speedy answer. Your daughter is lucky to have such a caring mom.

[pattig]

Hi Barfer,
Very uplifting post .... thank you.  As I said in one of my posts, I can certainly think of several issues that could be causing my daughter stress, and competitive dance is definitely one of them.  In fact the very first time she got the attack of vertigo she was in a dance class.  She also has had best friend issues, boyfriend issues, competition with older sister issues, acne, SAT's, college apps, not to mention just dealing with the physical issues themselves and worrying herself sick that something is seriously wrong.  Yes I can look at her computer and see her recent searches on the internet about brain tumors, ms, etc. etc.  We have taken her symptoms very seriously and once we were told this may all by psychological, we continued to take them seriously, while pointing out to her that while we believe all her pains and symptoms are very real, that she should take comfort in the fact that we know there is nothing seriously wrong from a medical standpoint.  Your point about enabling is exactly what I have been worried about.  I don't want to do that.  She is maybe 75% of the way there in believing that this could be psychological, however, we have not had much luck to date with the contacts we have made in the mental health route.  I hope our future appointments will be different in that we can start to make some real progress with the situation.

We have paid her tuition and room and board deposit for college next year.  She will be less than an hour away from us.  I hope and pray that over the next few months we are able to get her to a point where she can actually follow through with this plan for college.

Again, many thanks to you Barfer, and everyone who has taken the time to post.  It really really helps and is very meaningful.

[barfer]

Barfer here again.  I've been reading all the comments since I wrote you on the 6th.  Everyone has great ideas and it goes to show you that you are not alone in having a "special child".  Who knew when we decided to have kids that all this extra stuff would come along with that precious little bundle.  You are a great mom and are trying everything you know to get your daughter back on track.  Be strong and make her feel like you are the Strong person who will help her get through this.  By being strong, that means that you also have to be not just supportive but firm.  Don't let her wallow in self pity because all you become then is an enabler.  I hope I don't sound too tough but this comes from my heart.  What you don't know about me is that I have two daughters and they are as different as night and day.  My oldest daughter has cerebral palsy, epilepsy and is developmentally disabled.  My youngest was the one who was the straight A student, perfectionist, a dancer who performed in many places in the world, and threw up before performances and she is the one I was telling you about in my last posting to you.  By telling you this, I want you to see that all children have something, some more extreme than others and know matter what the circumstance, you have to be tough to be able to love and support your child.  No matter what the situation, you find the best care you can for your child, but also support them in a way that still makes them feel like they can have their parents to support them but not enable them.  Sometimes we may look too deeply at a situation and blow it out of proportion.  I'm not saying you are doing that with your daughter but the fact that she didn't get her prom tickets may mean she simply doesn't want to go to the prom.  Going away to college is HUGE and by getting prom tickets may just be a reminder to her that this part of her life is becoming a reality.  One other think I would like to comment on, the dance world is a VERY difficult one and full of perfectionists.  There were 8 psychiatrists/psychologists on staff at my daughter's school.  That just gives you an idea of how prevalent mental health issues are in the dance community.  Your daughter's quitting dance may have a lot to do with the pressure not only she put on herself but what the artistic director put on her.  That might be something that should be looked at from a psychiatrist's point of view.  You know, most people felt sorry for me (which drove me crazy) because I had a disabled child when in some ways it was easier raising her than it was this straight A perfectionist dancer.  By the way, my daughter gave up dance to go to university which was hotly discussed between the artistic director and us.  She had burned out at the ripe old age of 17 and decided to go to university.  She had a career in dance waiting for her and decided to go with her plan B.  I was practically doing back flips I was so happy!  On the other-hand, no one else was.  I think she would tell your daughter that she made the right decision, not only financially, but for her mental health; she no longer had the burning desire to dance and if that goes away, then what is the point unless you are comfortable doing it just for recreation.  I would also suggest that your daughter go away to school or atleast stay in residence the first year so that she fully experiences the university atmosphere.  Getting away from Mom and Dad will also give her some independence that she may need...not having you right there and having to make decisions on her own.  Hey, if it doesn't work, you can always change that decision, but I know it did my daughter a world of good and made her more independent.

All of this is just food for thought...I know where you are coming from...You are doing a remarkable job.  Do what you want with this information, it is only one person's point of view.

[pattig]

soprano35,
My daughter did have a a complete eye exam.... is something that would be found or do they have to be looking for it?  Did your daughter have any dizziness?

[Soprano35]

My teenage daughter had similar symptoms two years ago.  Terrible headache, pressure, visual changes, neck and/or back pain, fatigue.  Six weeks of doctors, two ER visits, CAT scan negative the most common thing we'd hear is "well at least it isn't a brain tumor" since the scan was clear.  Finally, to justify getting an MRI an eye surgeon did an exam and saw the signs of high cranial pressure.  A lumbar puncture was able to confirm her cranial pressure had been over twice normal.  The name of the condition is called Pseudo Tumor Cerebri.  Sometimes it can be idiopathic, though in her case it was provoked because she had just started taking a drug called minocycline.  She has been on a drug to help keep the pressure normal and hopefully it will not be needed forever.  

I don't want to throw out some scary possibility, but when you can't figure out what is going on with you kid you are already scared.  This condition was not on any doctor's radar and I have had to let go of some of the pain felt by it seeming like it was "all in her head" (it was!!) or that I was a neurotic mother telling the ER doctor that if she said it hurts that much it does - when they didn't think a lumbar was justified.

The best thing to do is you be your child's advocate.  Keep track of things, research, remember the good doctors and look them up when things get tough.  

Patty

[pattig]

mamashan,
Thank you for your story and kind words.  I am so happy to hear that your son is doing well.  Can I ask what medication he was on?  And is he also in therapy?  

I certainly believe that there are many things in my daughter's life that could have caused or is causing stress, even though she claims she is not.  It is just so difficult to believe it can have such a physical impact.  But after reading so many posts here I see that it can.

I was able to set up an appointment with a psychiatrist ..... she wants to me with me and my husband at the first meeting and then with my daughter.  It is not for 2 weeks, but it is at least a start.

Thank you again and best wishes to you and your son.

[mamashan]

I just wanted to add some comments since I think we have shared some of the same gut-wrenching, heart breaking thoughts about our children.  My son is a perfectionist (except for when it comes to his room!) and often hard on himself.  Last year he began complaining of stomach aches and headaches.  He was flush all of the time.  He didn't sleep well, he woke in the middle of the night.  He missed 18 days of school.  He saw the pediatrician many timnes over the course of a couple of months, an ENT, a nuerologist.  He had every test under the sun.  Finally, he got to the point where he was a puddle.  He couldn't talk to us.  He only cried.  He was 10 years old.  I, nor any of the doctors, ever considered depression.   If your daughter is a high achiever, which it sounds like she is (mine already knows he is going to MIT!), than the pressure she is feeling could very well be coming from within.  Please seek the advice of a psychiatrist.  We did.  My son has done very well on medication...within a month he was his old self again.  I wish you all of the best.  My thoughts are with you.

[pattig]

FMXSMKR

I appreciate your kind words... hope you are doing well.

[Jade59]

I don't have any more suggestions to add, just a comment on what a wonderful mom you are to care about your daughters emotional health to the point you would search the Internet for answers.  

I started feeling like your daughter does when I was her age and my mother could have cared less and if she had ever asked me "what can I do to help", I think I would have fainted!

All the above advice is excellent and I hope your daughter feels better soon.  She's very lucky to have such a loving mom.

Love can move mountains!

Thinking of you....

[pattig]

Hi Pum, thanks again, it is so nice to hear from everyone... very reassuring and definitely gives me some action plans.

I will start trying to get her into some sort of exercise every day.... I agree that this is very necessary, but I have been too laid back about making it happen.  So many of your suggestions make sense, and I will try to incorporate your ideas into her daily routine.  Unfortunately I do work full time, so when she gets home from school most days she just lays down on the couch and sleeps.  Today she texted me and said she felt so awful that she couldn't stay after school to buy prom tickets.  Then she came home and went to sleep on the couch.  When I came home and asked what I could do to help, she just cried and cried saying "I'm so sick of feeling this way".  

As I said earlier, she has a prescription for ativan (1 mg) that does not seem to help.  She also has a prescription for nortriptyline (spelling?) for her "headaches" that she takes at bedtime.  I have read that this is an anti-depressant given in higher doses, but her primary care doctor said it is also used for headaches in lower doses (she is on 10 to 20 mg each night).

I called a local health facility's psychiatric department today to request an intake appointment... I hope to get a call back tomorrow.  We will see how that goes.

Thanks again everyone, sharing your experiences has been very helpful to me.  I know in my heart that she will get better with the right treatment and I appreciate all the help you are giving to get us toward that end.  

[Pum]

You sound very caring and accepting.

Some other practical things to try in the meantime are
1. gentle exercise every day, take her for a walk or a swim or something
2. tell her she must not go to bed during the day, no matter how she feels (she can rest on the couch if she is tired)
3. she should eat every 2 hours even if it's a handful of nuts and dried fruit or a yoghurt (to even out the blood sugar)
4. If she wakes early then she should get up and make herself a cup of tea.
5. take up a hobby like cross-stitch which uses just enough of your brain to stop obsessing.
6. tell her to be kind to herself and give herself a treat every day (a magazine, or a hot bath or whatever she feels is a reward)
7. try some voluntary work. Doing things for others is a great way to stop focussing on every little symptom.
8. ban her from the internet, if she is symptom searching.

In the end, if it is anxiety/depression, she may need some meds. The ones nowadays are great although she may be too young for SSRI's.

What did the two clinical/psychiatric social workers say? Any mention of medications or is she functioning well enough to not need them.

Good luck.

[suzi-q]

Of course you worry....you are her mom!   I remember my mom was beside herself when I went through it.  I was 27 at the time.  I had an EEG, MRI, CAT scan, and blood work that you couldn't even imagine!  I went to an opthamologist for my eyes, allergist, and everything proved normal. (Thank God).  It took months for me to feel better.  Went to 2 neurologists...one dismissed me, the other listened and knew that it was caused from my depression and anxiety.  He gave me a med. called depakote which is for people with other disorders, but it also helps the brain to function at an "even level"  I was on that for a year.  With that I was put on Paxil for the depression and Klonopin (only as needed) for the panic attacks I started to experience.  I know my anxiety was brought on by not knowing what was wrong with me!  

Maybe your daughter is not experiencing the "panic"....therefore the ativan will not help.  She could just be experiencing depression.  I think that since all the tests from the doctor came back normal (again and again) definitely get a PSYCHIATRIST who knows what will work to help your daughter.  Many times a regular MD doesn't understand and a therapist (Without a PhD or MD) isn't truly aware and qualified to make these decisions.  Best to you and your daughter.  Please keep me posted!

[pattig]

Thank you everyone so much for this wonderful advice.  Just a bit more data to add to this.  
            Yes, she was tested for Lyme's twice, both negative.

            At the end of February when she started getting the "pressure" symptoms, we
went ot the emergency room of a well reknowned hospital in Boston.  She ended up being admitted for 2 days.  They diagnosed her with "conversion disorder".  We left there and followed up with 3 different mental health professionals as mentioned in the my original post, 2 stated she did NOT have conversion disorder or anxiety, the 3rd one took my daughter on as a patient and after 6 weeks of weekly sessions, my daughter said she wanted to stop as it was doing nothing for her.

             Daughter has been given a prescription for ativan...... it does not seem to help her, therefore, she rationalizes that the problem cannot be "mental" since the anti-anxiety med doesn't work.  

              It is so very hard to find a psychiatrist, but it appears that is the best approach at this point, even if we have to wait months.

              Her primary doctor felt it wasn't a good idea to put her on antiobiotics for acne at this point with all the "medical" issues she is having, i.e, one of the side effects she said was stomach upset..... she has enough of that already.   I will look into laser treatments as another possibility.

              I am 99% convinced this is anxiety/stress related (the other 1% of me is the mother in me wondering if we have tested for everything).  Your words give me hope that this can be beaten, we just need to find the right professional to get her on track.

[suzi-q]

It most definitely can be depresson and anxiety for I have had the same symptoms.  I never would have considered myself depressed or anxious at the time. I had absolutely no energy, constant pressure headaches and lightheadness!  I had no desire for anything or to do anything.  Loss a tremendous around of weight do to constant nausea.  Meds and therapy helped me get my life back.

One more medical thing however,  is there any way that she could have gotten bitten by a tick and have lymes disease?  Was she tested for that?  Many of her symptoms also sound similar to that.

[JSGeare]

What's left? Psychiatry. Get in front of one who specializes in anxiety disorder, especially among youngsters. As an MD, the shink will be able to assess the tests already done and begin digging for answers. That should probably include therapy.

Now I'll throw in 2 cents worth.

THIS IS TOTALLY LAYMAN'S OPINION: You mentioned the eating and weight loss. But if your kid has bulimia (binge, purge, binge, purge) it can be well hidden from you and from everyone, and it may take some time for it to show up in the blood work, etc. Run it by the shrink.

SWAG (stands for "scientific wild-*** guess"): PANDAS -or something like it. If that tummy problem was actually brought about by a migration of strep from throat to tummy (I don't even know if that is at all possible) then it may indicate the kind of treatments that could be helpful.

I JUST MADE ALL THAT STUFF UP. I'm guessing, looking for anything, same as you. Again, run it by the shrink.

I wish you and your daughter the very best.

[barfer]

Everything NaluKana is great information.  Whether you have a lot of great things or horrible things happening to you, either way it can bring on anxiety.  The fact that your daughter has been accepted to a university that is hard to get into, may add additional anxiety because now she knows she has to perform to a certain level.  All these factors combine to contribute to anxiety.  The fact that she is experiencing acne also speaks to her self esteem.  Any skin reaction whether it be hives, acne, rashes, can be a result of anxiety.  A lot of people try to internalize how they feel and sometimes it comes out in their skin or panic attacks etc.  There is another route to go with the acne and that is laser treatments.  Maybe she would feel more confident if she felt her skin was in better shape.  The other thing is to remind your daughter of how proud you are of her getting into that prestigious school but to also let her know that most of the other people accepted are feeling just like she is.  Honestly, schools like that are chock full of people that have anxiety issues because a lot of them are perfectionists to start with.  I remember the head of my daughter's school saying that she had a school full of thoroughbreds and what she meant by that was that the school had the cream of the crop which also goes along with being anxious and high-spirited.  That is what makes these people so special and so brilliant.  My point is, if being accepted to a high calibre school is contributing to her anxiety, you can tell her, that she really doesn't have to worry about it, she will be in great company and she certainly won't be the only one sweating it on her first days of school.  I think she will probably end up flourishing in the environment.  She's just got to be willing to walk in the door (even if she needs a gentle push).  You know she wants it and she knows she wants it, so you can help her make it happen.  For my daughter's first year, I drove 2 and 1/2 hours every weekend to see her.  Sometimes I brought her home and other times I stayed there.  After the first year, she hardly came home at all.  She also dealt with acne and throwing up etc.  Make her desire to have the career the catalyst to getting her through it.  My daughter is all finished school now and has a great career.  

[NaluKana]

Sorry forgot one thing, my whole problem was started by a simple stomach infection that resolved on its own, but left the whole mess in its wake. And i used to be a paramedic, i should have known better but if there is one thing that i have learned through all this is that you never know what can cause anxiety problems, sometimes its a huge incident in your life and sometimes its something small.

Best wishes

[NaluKana]

I just thought i would throw in my two cents on this. I am 27 y/o and in Jan. of this year i started to go through something just like what you are describing. I too have been to every Dr. i could think of and had SO many tests run on me without finding anything. I was constantly worried about things in my body that i never paid much mind to before such as headaches and getting dizzy when i stood up and neck/back pains. But during all of this i never really felt anxious or depressed. Funny thing is though was that i really was and did not even realize it being that i had never dealt with anything like this before. All of the symptoms including the weight loss can be due to anxiety or something else, but due to the amount and types of tests that she has had run it most likely will end up being some type of anxiety/stress.
Now almost 5 months later i am feeling much better and starting to move back on with my life, but i did not start feeling better until i believed it was just anxiety. My advice for you would be that she needs to first admit to herself that she is feeling anxious about all of the symptoms/ Dr visits. Once you can realize that this is what is causing all of this then you can begin to get over it. Mind you that it most likely will be something that she will have to deal with at some level the rest of her life, especially in stressful situations, but you can definantly take steps to reduce the occurences and severity. I would suggest seeing a therapist and trying Cognitive Behavior Therapy possibly in conjuction with some mild anti-anxiety meds. Thats what i used and it has helped immensly including getting back towards my normal weight. Just reasure her that it will get better over time and that you have run all the tests that you can and everything is fine, i know my wife telling me these things helped even when i didnt believe it.

On a side note, i too battled with bad acne during high school and none of the OTC products worked for me. I would suggest asking about a tri-cycline antibiotic, it helped for me due to my acne being caused by bacteria in my body.

Hope this helps in some way, its tough dealing with these things even for the family of the person going through it.

[pattig]

Thank you for answering Pum.  She doesn't sleep well, she did lose about 12 lbs since this happened, but has stabilized and she does eat, she is very tired all the time, so not moving around alot, she has given up dancing which was her true passion because she physically can't do it, she is managing to get through school (senior year), room has always been messy, and she has always been slow in the morning.  

She has had several positives in her life this year besides feeling lousy all the time.  She applied to several very hard colleges and was accepted to her first choice, almost impossible to get into.  She also found a career option that she is very passionate about pursuing.

The one thing I can say I know she is stressed about is her acne.. it is not terrible, but she has been battling it all through high school and nothing has worked for her.  (I'm sure anxiety would contribute to this too).

Any other words of advice?  How do we pursue treatment if it is anxiety?

[Pum]

Maybe she doesn't realise she's anxious/depressed. How would she? It's her first time in this life.
I have had those symptoms and they were anxiety. I guess the real questions are how is she sleeping (is she waking early or through the night), eating (is she losing weight), is she constantly moving or touching her face, does she enjoy her normal activities, is she looking forward to anything? Is her room messier than normal, does she take ages to get going in the morning?
It could be as simple as allergies though with an anxious personality obsessing on the physical feelings.

Good luck to you both.