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Is it safe to just switch from klonopin to valium?
Hi,
Wondering about others' experiences. I am still battling the panic attacks and switching meds since the beginning of the year. I had always used xanax successfully for attacks over the past 15 years, but this past year has been so bad I was having to take them every day. My psychiatrist switched me to Klonopin (.5 mg 2x a day) about 7 weeks ago. Hasn't really been helping me as I ended up in ER again with another bad panic attack. My doctor now wants me to try valium instead (5mg 2x a day).
He says it's ok to just stop the klon and start with the valium...as did the pharmacist...but I want to see if anyone has done this and what their experiences have been.
I never took more than .75 to 1mg of Klonopin in a day so I'm not sure if this is a lot and I need to worry about seizures. Also, how does the valium compare to the Klonopin? Klon was great at keeping my heart rate down and bloodpressure low, but it didn't calm my mind at all like xanax had. I was still freaking out and panicking, so that's why we're trying valium.
any info and your experiences would be much appreciated.
thank you!
k
Wondering about others' experiences. I am still battling the panic attacks and switching meds since the beginning of the year. I had always used xanax successfully for attacks over the past 15 years, but this past year has been so bad I was having to take them every day. My psychiatrist switched me to Klonopin (.5 mg 2x a day) about 7 weeks ago. Hasn't really been helping me as I ended up in ER again with another bad panic attack. My doctor now wants me to try valium instead (5mg 2x a day).
He says it's ok to just stop the klon and start with the valium...as did the pharmacist...but I want to see if anyone has done this and what their experiences have been.
I never took more than .75 to 1mg of Klonopin in a day so I'm not sure if this is a lot and I need to worry about seizures. Also, how does the valium compare to the Klonopin? Klon was great at keeping my heart rate down and bloodpressure low, but it didn't calm my mind at all like xanax had. I was still freaking out and panicking, so that's why we're trying valium.
any info and your experiences would be much appreciated.
thank you!
k
Hi.
I am intrigued by this forum, and especially interested in your case specifically. I am a 35 year old male that has had panic issues for about 5 years that have reached a similar point of almost agoraphobic proportions. I love exercising and being outdoors but my constant monitoring of my heart rate leads me into panic every time i run or bike or attempt any moderately strenuous activity. my panic has been more intense recently and is triggered by almost every social interaction.. especially during doctors apptointments and any medical related procedure. i, like you, have also been on many SSRI's alone and in combination with xanax or ativan. I could actually only tolerate a couple SSRI's for more than a month. The best being lexapro, which i tolerated for about a year. The problem is after i found one that did the trick, the honeymoon period of no panic with little negative side effects (there was sometimes pleasent, positive, however short lived, euphoric periods on SSRI's that were welcomed) from the medication would only last for so long. At this point i began to do a literal pros and cons of either staying on meds and feeling like a flat, motivatedless, useless pod, or tapering off of them and being in a perpetual state of impending panic. Both, frustratingly, seeming equally too distressing to deal with long term. As for the benzo's.. xanax definately works better than ativan for me, but it seems when panic hits both are too little too late. Thus off to the ER I go, letting them know i am back and am having a panic attack. Usually in i come with a bp of like 220 over 140 and a hr of roughly 150. Not much fun. So here I am, like you, playing the what in the hell do i tell my doctor to give me this month game. He did just give me klonopin .5mg twice a day. I haven't started it yet because i am waiting for an attempt at starting a regimen of high dosage pharmeceutical grade fish oil. maybe that will kick in and perhaps stabilize me a bit. It does seem to lift some depressive feelings so far, but not doin much in the line of panic control.
Anyway, i wanted to ask you a question that may seem a little odd and perhaps unrelated. Keep in mind I have no other motive but to help your situation. Do you have any silver fillings? The reason I ask this question is because a few months ago I had a silver filling removed and it caused me to have severe vertigo followed by two weeks of non-stop panick to the point of almost wanting to end it all. Fortunately i made a connection after reading about how silver fillings are made of 50% mercury. Anyway, long story short i was tested for and came up positive for chronic mercury poisoning. The thing about mercury poisoning is most symptoms are neuro-psychiatric when chronic poisoning reaches the point where most of its victims investigate its possibility. Constant panic and elevated heart rate being two of its most common symptoms. Through carefull and safe detox, apparently and hopefully in my case, one can decrease their brain burden, which is where mercury likes to hang out, and improve from its psychiatric manifestations. It may sound kind of "out there" but, panic attacks are so awful any attempt to uncover their cause, if one can be determined, seems worthwhile at investigating to me. I hope to see results soon. I just had the rest of my silver fillings removed by a biological dentist who practices safe removal protocols. As for me.. we will see? As for you.. just some food for thought. regardless of cause.. I empathize with your situation as a fellow panic sufferer.. i wish you the best!
I am intrigued by this forum, and especially interested in your case specifically. I am a 35 year old male that has had panic issues for about 5 years that have reached a similar point of almost agoraphobic proportions. I love exercising and being outdoors but my constant monitoring of my heart rate leads me into panic every time i run or bike or attempt any moderately strenuous activity. my panic has been more intense recently and is triggered by almost every social interaction.. especially during doctors apptointments and any medical related procedure. i, like you, have also been on many SSRI's alone and in combination with xanax or ativan. I could actually only tolerate a couple SSRI's for more than a month. The best being lexapro, which i tolerated for about a year. The problem is after i found one that did the trick, the honeymoon period of no panic with little negative side effects (there was sometimes pleasent, positive, however short lived, euphoric periods on SSRI's that were welcomed) from the medication would only last for so long. At this point i began to do a literal pros and cons of either staying on meds and feeling like a flat, motivatedless, useless pod, or tapering off of them and being in a perpetual state of impending panic. Both, frustratingly, seeming equally too distressing to deal with long term. As for the benzo's.. xanax definately works better than ativan for me, but it seems when panic hits both are too little too late. Thus off to the ER I go, letting them know i am back and am having a panic attack. Usually in i come with a bp of like 220 over 140 and a hr of roughly 150. Not much fun. So here I am, like you, playing the what in the hell do i tell my doctor to give me this month game. He did just give me klonopin .5mg twice a day. I haven't started it yet because i am waiting for an attempt at starting a regimen of high dosage pharmeceutical grade fish oil. maybe that will kick in and perhaps stabilize me a bit. It does seem to lift some depressive feelings so far, but not doin much in the line of panic control.
Anyway, i wanted to ask you a question that may seem a little odd and perhaps unrelated. Keep in mind I have no other motive but to help your situation. Do you have any silver fillings? The reason I ask this question is because a few months ago I had a silver filling removed and it caused me to have severe vertigo followed by two weeks of non-stop panick to the point of almost wanting to end it all. Fortunately i made a connection after reading about how silver fillings are made of 50% mercury. Anyway, long story short i was tested for and came up positive for chronic mercury poisoning. The thing about mercury poisoning is most symptoms are neuro-psychiatric when chronic poisoning reaches the point where most of its victims investigate its possibility. Constant panic and elevated heart rate being two of its most common symptoms. Through carefull and safe detox, apparently and hopefully in my case, one can decrease their brain burden, which is where mercury likes to hang out, and improve from its psychiatric manifestations. It may sound kind of "out there" but, panic attacks are so awful any attempt to uncover their cause, if one can be determined, seems worthwhile at investigating to me. I hope to see results soon. I just had the rest of my silver fillings removed by a biological dentist who practices safe removal protocols. As for me.. we will see? As for you.. just some food for thought. regardless of cause.. I empathize with your situation as a fellow panic sufferer.. i wish you the best!
hi,
i wanted to thank you for all your information, although to be quite honest, my knowledge of these drugs is nowhere near as extensive as yours! I am sorry to be such an idiot, but I think I may need a medical degree to understand some of your descriptions ;-) so if either of you feel like translating some of that info layman's terms, I'd be happy to go through it again.
Ryan, to answer your question, my trips to the ER have been for racing heart (it can go up to 150 bpm during an attack), chest pains, feeling i can't breath, feeling as if i'm crawling out of my skin and about to die...they vary but overall those are the norm. I've suffered from panic/anxiety/depression for about 20 years now. It was under control for a good number of years, but this year has been a nightmare for me. I have been on every SSRI out there...
As I mentioned I had been on Klonopin for awhile- once at the beginning of the year for a few months- and it made me incredibly depressed. I tried it again because of my concern over becoming addicted to Xanax and the fact that I was building up a tolerance to it and having to use more and more xanax to get me through an attack. Ultimately, my panic attacks have turned into 24/7 anxiety that has made me agoraphobic. And as you both mentioned, xanax is short lived so it wears out after a few hours on me.
Ativan did absolutely NOTHING. Tried that for a few months.
Then we went back to the Klonopin, but again, I found myself very depressed and it was not stopping or really helping the panic attacks. My brain would not calm down on it although it did slow down my heart rate. The xanax was pretty good at calming the mind, at least for awhile, but sometimes, the panic attack would kick back in full force again after it would wear off.
I am on Prozac again because it was the first drug I used that really helped me control the panic attacks years ago. Of course, it had stopped working after a number of years, and I spent about a dozen years on everything else. We decided to go back to what worked in the beginning, hoping that my body would respond again. So far, it's making me feel a little better than any of the other meds I've tried this year. My doctor thought Valium would be worth a shot. After all, I think as we all know, everyone seems to respond to each of these drugs differently. That's the hard part.
What makes it harder still for me is I have a FEAR of these drugs as well! So I'm constantly scanning my body for side-effects and reactions. It's fair to say I have extreme health anxiety on top of my panic and depression. Fun, isn't it?
Well, I tried a little bit of the valium today. At 1pm I took half of 1 (2.5 mg) and then at 5pm took another 2.5mg... it's ok so far...not really feeling much at this point, except I am noticing that my muscles feel more relaxed than they have in a long time :-)
I guess I just have to wait and see if I have a full-blown panic attack while I'm on this and if i do, if taking a little more of the valium helps calm me down.
The klonopin really didn't work that way for me. Didn't stop the attacks and didn't help when I took more if I felt one coming on...
i feel like such a disaster. I'm really trying everything...therapy weekly, breathing techniques, yoga, meditation...
Why is anxiety and panic so hard to manage???? I keep looking for something else that may be wrong with me (medically), but after a number of ER visits, EKGs, sonograms, blood tests, holter monitors...they keep telling me 'it's all in my head'.
Sadly, my brain isn't that easy to manage...
well thank you again for listening and would love to hear more. Wishing you all the best,
k
i wanted to thank you for all your information, although to be quite honest, my knowledge of these drugs is nowhere near as extensive as yours! I am sorry to be such an idiot, but I think I may need a medical degree to understand some of your descriptions ;-) so if either of you feel like translating some of that info layman's terms, I'd be happy to go through it again.
Ryan, to answer your question, my trips to the ER have been for racing heart (it can go up to 150 bpm during an attack), chest pains, feeling i can't breath, feeling as if i'm crawling out of my skin and about to die...they vary but overall those are the norm. I've suffered from panic/anxiety/depression for about 20 years now. It was under control for a good number of years, but this year has been a nightmare for me. I have been on every SSRI out there...
As I mentioned I had been on Klonopin for awhile- once at the beginning of the year for a few months- and it made me incredibly depressed. I tried it again because of my concern over becoming addicted to Xanax and the fact that I was building up a tolerance to it and having to use more and more xanax to get me through an attack. Ultimately, my panic attacks have turned into 24/7 anxiety that has made me agoraphobic. And as you both mentioned, xanax is short lived so it wears out after a few hours on me.
Ativan did absolutely NOTHING. Tried that for a few months.
Then we went back to the Klonopin, but again, I found myself very depressed and it was not stopping or really helping the panic attacks. My brain would not calm down on it although it did slow down my heart rate. The xanax was pretty good at calming the mind, at least for awhile, but sometimes, the panic attack would kick back in full force again after it would wear off.
I am on Prozac again because it was the first drug I used that really helped me control the panic attacks years ago. Of course, it had stopped working after a number of years, and I spent about a dozen years on everything else. We decided to go back to what worked in the beginning, hoping that my body would respond again. So far, it's making me feel a little better than any of the other meds I've tried this year. My doctor thought Valium would be worth a shot. After all, I think as we all know, everyone seems to respond to each of these drugs differently. That's the hard part.
What makes it harder still for me is I have a FEAR of these drugs as well! So I'm constantly scanning my body for side-effects and reactions. It's fair to say I have extreme health anxiety on top of my panic and depression. Fun, isn't it?
Well, I tried a little bit of the valium today. At 1pm I took half of 1 (2.5 mg) and then at 5pm took another 2.5mg... it's ok so far...not really feeling much at this point, except I am noticing that my muscles feel more relaxed than they have in a long time :-)
I guess I just have to wait and see if I have a full-blown panic attack while I'm on this and if i do, if taking a little more of the valium helps calm me down.
The klonopin really didn't work that way for me. Didn't stop the attacks and didn't help when I took more if I felt one coming on...
i feel like such a disaster. I'm really trying everything...therapy weekly, breathing techniques, yoga, meditation...
Why is anxiety and panic so hard to manage???? I keep looking for something else that may be wrong with me (medically), but after a number of ER visits, EKGs, sonograms, blood tests, holter monitors...they keep telling me 'it's all in my head'.
Sadly, my brain isn't that easy to manage...
well thank you again for listening and would love to hear more. Wishing you all the best,
k
Hi;
I've been taking Valium for 15 years for an off label use. That's the way things began anyhow. Seems the off label, chronic illness has produced GAD. Valium 10 mg. tid attenuated both off label use and anxiety/insomnia until it stopped working. Increasing to qid made me spacey and still the sx occurred.
Dr. switched me to an equivalent Klonopin dose ( .5 mg. qid ) as that has few to no active metabolites to build up. It's been 5 months of feeling stimulated. I can't rest and have muscle tension with mental confusion, especially in stores and open areas.
I think one's GABA receptors have, on an individual basis, a high affinity for one of the benzodiazepines and that is very much different between individuals.
Though Valium has as much as a 200 hr. active metabolite half life, that is certainly not indicative of the drugs duration of anxiolysis. Klonopin is actually shorter acting but still a long acting drug. Problem with Valium is it goes into the body as diazepam and converted to nordiazepam in about 6 - 8 hrs. The quickness is due to it's high lipophilic properties. Much of the drug is distributed to the periphery and not the brain. I think that may make Valium a superior muscle relaxant.
Ativan, shorter half life than Valium, actually has a longer duration of action because it is not bound to adipose ( fat ) tissue, but then, I wonder which GABA receptor blocks it strikes?
I feel to be in Valium withdrawal all the time even though I take equivalent doses of Klonopin. I find a build up of Valium metabolites to make me very tired. With Klonopin, I feel wired, so, you see, it is an individual reaction.
Geesh. One would think God would standardize these things! : )
Best wishes all...
Russ
I've been taking Valium for 15 years for an off label use. That's the way things began anyhow. Seems the off label, chronic illness has produced GAD. Valium 10 mg. tid attenuated both off label use and anxiety/insomnia until it stopped working. Increasing to qid made me spacey and still the sx occurred.
Dr. switched me to an equivalent Klonopin dose ( .5 mg. qid ) as that has few to no active metabolites to build up. It's been 5 months of feeling stimulated. I can't rest and have muscle tension with mental confusion, especially in stores and open areas.
I think one's GABA receptors have, on an individual basis, a high affinity for one of the benzodiazepines and that is very much different between individuals.
Though Valium has as much as a 200 hr. active metabolite half life, that is certainly not indicative of the drugs duration of anxiolysis. Klonopin is actually shorter acting but still a long acting drug. Problem with Valium is it goes into the body as diazepam and converted to nordiazepam in about 6 - 8 hrs. The quickness is due to it's high lipophilic properties. Much of the drug is distributed to the periphery and not the brain. I think that may make Valium a superior muscle relaxant.
Ativan, shorter half life than Valium, actually has a longer duration of action because it is not bound to adipose ( fat ) tissue, but then, I wonder which GABA receptor blocks it strikes?
I feel to be in Valium withdrawal all the time even though I take equivalent doses of Klonopin. I find a build up of Valium metabolites to make me very tired. With Klonopin, I feel wired, so, you see, it is an individual reaction.
Geesh. One would think God would standardize these things! : )
Best wishes all...
Russ
HI
thanks for your feedback! I really appreciate it. i think we didn't increase the Klon because it just wasn't helping my 'head' so to speak. (Although it has been nice not to have the constantly racing heart from my anxiety) I'm just exhausted all the time on it- have no energy- yet the klon is not calming my mind as xanax had. I guess my doc felt the valium might be better for awhile than using the xanax every day.
I am not so worried about addiction right now as I am terrified of drugs to begin with and take as little as possible. I don't love the idea of being on any meds, but i'm hoping the Prozac will kick in soon and work as it had for me 16 years ago so I won't have to rely so much on the benzos...
I do need to be on something to at least keep me from running to the ER every week.
thanks much!
k
thanks for your feedback! I really appreciate it. i think we didn't increase the Klon because it just wasn't helping my 'head' so to speak. (Although it has been nice not to have the constantly racing heart from my anxiety) I'm just exhausted all the time on it- have no energy- yet the klon is not calming my mind as xanax had. I guess my doc felt the valium might be better for awhile than using the xanax every day.
I am not so worried about addiction right now as I am terrified of drugs to begin with and take as little as possible. I don't love the idea of being on any meds, but i'm hoping the Prozac will kick in soon and work as it had for me 16 years ago so I won't have to rely so much on the benzos...
I do need to be on something to at least keep me from running to the ER every week.
thanks much!
k
I would place Valium as more addictive and not as nice a tablet as Klonopin. The thing about Klonopin is you can take it safely for years. It doesn't lose its effectiveness like most other benzos. I'm surprised your doctor just didn't suggest you increased your Klonopin. I take 1.5mg twice a day. I have Valium if needed. But I only take 1/2 a tablet. I think it is more addictive and would be harder to get off come the end of the day should you ever need to. As for the change over. It should be safe to do. Considering I was told I could switch from .5mg valium to .5mg Klonopin if I wanted to. Valium I would say is shorter acting as well. Klonopin may last for 8 hours or so. Valium seems to wear off a lot quicker on me. Medications reacts in various ways with various people. So the best of luck with the change over. Hope all goes well for you.
2 Comments
I realize that these are older comments. I am writing on 5-2-17. My p-doc stupidly had me do an immediate change from Clonazepam (4 mgs/1mg 4x's a day) to Valium (10 mgs/3x's per day). He did not do a slow crossover. As a result, I began experiencing EXTREME AGITATION and EXTREME MUSCLE CRAMPING in my lower back. I had to call him and ask him to switch me back to Klonopin. Even though it is Memorial Day weekend, he did so. I have restarted Clonazepam and still am extremely agitated and having the severe muscle cramping. Never do a quick switch from Clonazepam to Valium, I suggest. I am wondering if I am having paradoxical effects. I AM SCREAMING!
I meant 5-27-17
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