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Using opiates for anxiety and depression?
So I have had pretty serious anxiety and depression issues for as long as I can remember. I am 22 years old, and I have spent everyday of those 22 years obsessing over things that are completely out of my control. I have been diagnosed/misdiagnosed as having multiple disorders; GAD, agoraphobia, borderline personality disorder, and finally as manic depressive, which I think is the most accurate.
During college, I saw multiple university mental health doctors, most of whom just offered me a bottle of xanax, clonopin, or ativan and sent me on my way. Among these meds, I have also tried: lexapro, paxil, zoloft, seroquel, lamictal, xyprexa, buspar, and welbutrin. Currently I am taking depakote er, which actually seems to be working fairly well. It makes the anxiety bareable, but doesn't do much for my depression.
However, there has always been one thing that has relieved all my symptoms; pain medications. First I would like to say something that Im sure everyone knows; these medicines are very addictive and should not be abused. Unfortunately, they are the only things that work for me. The make me completely calm and relaxed, and not wozy and out of it like benzos do. I have never tried to obtain them illegal or without reason, but have come to this conclusion on occassions when I have been given them for legitamate pain. I am curious to know if someone can offer any scientific or medical explaination as to why opiates are so effective. I am also curious whether there are any anxiety medications that incorporate opiate therapy.
During college, I saw multiple university mental health doctors, most of whom just offered me a bottle of xanax, clonopin, or ativan and sent me on my way. Among these meds, I have also tried: lexapro, paxil, zoloft, seroquel, lamictal, xyprexa, buspar, and welbutrin. Currently I am taking depakote er, which actually seems to be working fairly well. It makes the anxiety bareable, but doesn't do much for my depression.
However, there has always been one thing that has relieved all my symptoms; pain medications. First I would like to say something that Im sure everyone knows; these medicines are very addictive and should not be abused. Unfortunately, they are the only things that work for me. The make me completely calm and relaxed, and not wozy and out of it like benzos do. I have never tried to obtain them illegal or without reason, but have come to this conclusion on occassions when I have been given them for legitamate pain. I am curious to know if someone can offer any scientific or medical explaination as to why opiates are so effective. I am also curious whether there are any anxiety medications that incorporate opiate therapy.
"An artificial sense of well being and happiness? Would you say the feeling of happiness or well being you have from relationships, meaningful pursuits in life and all the sensory pleasures (eating, sex etc) are real/authentic?"
I totally get what you're saying, but I'm comparing the realistic medicinal treatment of anxiety, and the fact that opiate medications create a false sense of "happiness" and make it difficult for a person to readjust once those medications are gone. I wouldn't (again) disagree that similar arguments could be made when discussing meds like antidepressants, but they are much more viable choices for long term use, plus they don't share the really big issue of tolerance that opiates do. It's apples and oranges IMO.
I agree completely with your second post and would always encourage people to incorporate as many of those kinds of measures into their treatment plan as they can, unfortunately for a lot of people, those measures simply aren't enough.
When it comes to the topic of THIS thread however, I maintain my position about treating anxiety/depression with opioid medications.
I totally get what you're saying, but I'm comparing the realistic medicinal treatment of anxiety, and the fact that opiate medications create a false sense of "happiness" and make it difficult for a person to readjust once those medications are gone. I wouldn't (again) disagree that similar arguments could be made when discussing meds like antidepressants, but they are much more viable choices for long term use, plus they don't share the really big issue of tolerance that opiates do. It's apples and oranges IMO.
I agree completely with your second post and would always encourage people to incorporate as many of those kinds of measures into their treatment plan as they can, unfortunately for a lot of people, those measures simply aren't enough.
When it comes to the topic of THIS thread however, I maintain my position about treating anxiety/depression with opioid medications.
Just to quickly emphasize to people. There are legal things you can do which directly or indirectly boost the activity of your brain's own opiate system and also happen to be beneficial for your health in numerous ways. Some of them are almost a cliche but they do work.
1.) Exercise- even just a few minutes a day can do something. Ideally strive for 20-60 mins of mild-moderate aerobic activity each day. Stationary bike, working in the garden, going for a walk, taking the stairs etc. This has been shown in numerous studies to help with depression and anxiety (along with health benefits for everything from diabetes, heart disease, pain, etc etc).
2.)Social support/activity- boosts opiates and oxytocin. Good for stress, depression, anxiety etc It may be difficult to engage in this or exercise if dealing with mental illness, but if you can, do it. Also all around amazing for health.
3.)Fish Oil- boosts opiate and endocannabinoid levels, good for overall health. Take a minimum of 1-2000mg of EPA+ DHA per day. In larger doses can help with pain. Helpful for inflammation (which is higher generally in mood disorders), mood disorders, and just like #1 &2 above, helps with countless health conditions.
-I also agree with other posters suggesting 'health journaling'. Keeping a calendar with a record of as many variables related to your condition as possible truly helps you see what contributes to helping and hindering. I print out a blank copy for each month. I write down my sleep, exercise, social support, meds + supplements (and any changes if any), my general subjective mood and specific symptoms. You would be amazed the things you can learn about yourself through this technique that you couldn't figure out just by thinking about it or drawing from
1.) Exercise- even just a few minutes a day can do something. Ideally strive for 20-60 mins of mild-moderate aerobic activity each day. Stationary bike, working in the garden, going for a walk, taking the stairs etc. This has been shown in numerous studies to help with depression and anxiety (along with health benefits for everything from diabetes, heart disease, pain, etc etc).
2.)Social support/activity- boosts opiates and oxytocin. Good for stress, depression, anxiety etc It may be difficult to engage in this or exercise if dealing with mental illness, but if you can, do it. Also all around amazing for health.
3.)Fish Oil- boosts opiate and endocannabinoid levels, good for overall health. Take a minimum of 1-2000mg of EPA+ DHA per day. In larger doses can help with pain. Helpful for inflammation (which is higher generally in mood disorders), mood disorders, and just like #1 &2 above, helps with countless health conditions.
-I also agree with other posters suggesting 'health journaling'. Keeping a calendar with a record of as many variables related to your condition as possible truly helps you see what contributes to helping and hindering. I print out a blank copy for each month. I write down my sleep, exercise, social support, meds + supplements (and any changes if any), my general subjective mood and specific symptoms. You would be amazed the things you can learn about yourself through this technique that you couldn't figure out just by thinking about it or drawing from
An artificial sense of well being and happiness? Would you say the feeling of happiness or well being you have from relationships, meaningful pursuits in life and all the sensory pleasures (eating, sex etc) are real/authentic? I'm going to sound a bit reductionist here, but all those 'natural' feelings are communicated in the brain with the same systems (opiates, oxytocin, cannabinoids). Of course they all impact neurobiology a bit differently.
Just saying :)
Just saying :)
I totally understand what you're saying, but unfortunately, the very pills that are helping you to feel better will eventually turn on you. Taking then every day will build your tolerance and it won't be long before you'll need more and more for the same effect, and if you don't frequently increase your dose (which of course leads to more tolerance issues) to deal with the tolerance issue, the oxycodone (which is a pretty strong opiate) will cause an INCREASE in anxiety for you and depression even. It really is a double edged sword.
Narcotics create artifical happiness and sense of well being. If it didn't come with tolerance, dependency and addiction, it would be a viable option. Also, it makes the underlying problem worse, because after you come off of it, your brain struggles to restore the natural "feel good" chemicals.
People could make similar arguments about antidepressants, but the truth is, you CAN be on them long term, and while occasional dosage increases are needed, they don't share the tolerance issue with opiates.
I welcome you to start your own thread here in the forum outlining your history and describing what all you've tried to date, including any meds, therapy, alternative treatments. We can then make some recommendations for you for your anxiety.
I can promise you that narcotic pain medication is simply NOT the answer for treating anxiety, and you're going to end up in a worse way in the long run, having to detox off, dealing with both physical AND mental w/ds (which can be a living nightmare, just read a few threads on the addiction or pain management forum).
We'll help however we can. Take care!!
Narcotics create artifical happiness and sense of well being. If it didn't come with tolerance, dependency and addiction, it would be a viable option. Also, it makes the underlying problem worse, because after you come off of it, your brain struggles to restore the natural "feel good" chemicals.
People could make similar arguments about antidepressants, but the truth is, you CAN be on them long term, and while occasional dosage increases are needed, they don't share the tolerance issue with opiates.
I welcome you to start your own thread here in the forum outlining your history and describing what all you've tried to date, including any meds, therapy, alternative treatments. We can then make some recommendations for you for your anxiety.
I can promise you that narcotic pain medication is simply NOT the answer for treating anxiety, and you're going to end up in a worse way in the long run, having to detox off, dealing with both physical AND mental w/ds (which can be a living nightmare, just read a few threads on the addiction or pain management forum).
We'll help however we can. Take care!!
I've also been on every ssri, xanax etc. And the only thing that helped me was oxycodone. Not hydrocodone, methadone etc. And if your nodding off etc, your taking waaaay to much. I take 1 15mg pill twice a day & have energy, motivation, am not sleepy. If I don't take it, I may have a panic attack or more likely, just sleep all day. I don't know what the answer is & I doubt anyone else does either. I'm just trying to live.
Hi Getweller,
I'm sorry to hear about your PTSD. You may also want to research the endocannabinoid system (i.e your body's own marijuana-like chemicals). Research in animals and humans has demonstrated that one of the functions of cannabinoids is help us FORGET bad memories. Tada, that is a huge part of PTSD. They also down regulate the stress response/HPA axis over-activation, and augment the body's opiate system. Also can reduce opiate tolerance. There are many lifestyle and nutritional factors which can boost them, among them exercise and high-dose fish oil (which in earlier posts on this thread I've recommended to all people, especially with mood disorders).
You also have the option of THC and CBD. Depending on which state you live in, you may be able to get medical cannabis legally. Also the VA (vets admin) has had a change in policy recently and now informally "allow" patients to use cannabis. It is more like tolerate..you can read about this google-it. You can get legal THC prescription pill (Marinol) but it is very expensive and is less effective with more side effects than herbal cannabis. Ideally, look for a variety that has been lab tested and contains equal amounts of THC and CBD (or ~ 1:1 ratio). I could go on, I'll leave it at this but if you have any questions let me know.
Apologies for quasi-tangent away from opiates and to the cannabinoids but just wanted to offer that tidbit.
I'm sorry to hear about your PTSD. You may also want to research the endocannabinoid system (i.e your body's own marijuana-like chemicals). Research in animals and humans has demonstrated that one of the functions of cannabinoids is help us FORGET bad memories. Tada, that is a huge part of PTSD. They also down regulate the stress response/HPA axis over-activation, and augment the body's opiate system. Also can reduce opiate tolerance. There are many lifestyle and nutritional factors which can boost them, among them exercise and high-dose fish oil (which in earlier posts on this thread I've recommended to all people, especially with mood disorders).
You also have the option of THC and CBD. Depending on which state you live in, you may be able to get medical cannabis legally. Also the VA (vets admin) has had a change in policy recently and now informally "allow" patients to use cannabis. It is more like tolerate..you can read about this google-it. You can get legal THC prescription pill (Marinol) but it is very expensive and is less effective with more side effects than herbal cannabis. Ideally, look for a variety that has been lab tested and contains equal amounts of THC and CBD (or ~ 1:1 ratio). I could go on, I'll leave it at this but if you have any questions let me know.
Apologies for quasi-tangent away from opiates and to the cannabinoids but just wanted to offer that tidbit.
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