Why am I feeling this way after combining Citalorpam with my Wellbutrin?

[Allybe]

I have tried all sorts of anti depressent and anxiety meds. Based on what others habe told me their experiences wereand of course my Dr advice.
Paxil- made me lose my sex drive
Prozac- made me have weird thoughts
Wellbutrin was working but I could still feel that tornado in my chest (anxiety) so speakikng to my Dr. He added Escitalopram to my regiment and I feel completley out of it. I was walking around costco like a zombie.
I am lethargic, not eating, my jaw and head hurt and I cant seem to form sentences when speaking. I emailed my Dr. But I am thinking my dose might be too high.
Has anyone else experienced these sode effects when taking these meds in combination?

Thanks for your time

[Allybe]

You both have very valid points and opinions. I'm happy you both seem to have so much knowledge but this is not helping me with my anxiety.  Lol.... although I did forget what my original post was for a couple minutes while reading your post.
So thanks

[Paxiled]

Are you seeing a psychiatrist or a regular doc?  Wellbutrin isn't really used for anxiety much, as it is one of the most stimulating antidepressants out there -- that could explain that tornado in your chest.  Usually, when wellbutrin is combined with an ssri, it's done when you're on an ssri and have problems with sex drive or weight gain -- adding some of it can help some people with this problem, but it wouldn't be the main drug for anxiety.  If your main problem is depression and the depression caused the anxiety, then it could be a good choice or not depending on the reaction -- it can still be overstimulating.  Because I was an anxiety sufferer primarily when I first went on medication, wellbutrin has never been considered for me by any psychiatrist I've seen, but I have been on your other drug and you sound like you're having some of its side effects, but others sound odd and could be the combination.  The jaw and head pain are very common for some reason with Lexapro and Celexa, and I got them.  If you are seeing a regular doc, I'd see a good psychopharmacologist as they do this a whole lot more often and are specially trained in these drugs, which regular docs aren't.  And also, we all get our own side effects from meds -- they affect us differently -- so our experience won't be your experience.  When you're on two drugs, you have two sets of side effects to deal with as well.  You also mention your dose is too high -- you don't mention the dose, but usually these days you taper up on a drug just as you taper down when you stop, but regular docs don't usually know that.

[Allybe]

I am just seeing my primary Dr. My main concern when seeing him was anxiety and panic attacks. Well actually I was having stressed induced palpitations and hyper tension. I noticed these had a direct correlation with my job. I started seeing him after my cardiologist suggested it. It's been over a year and 4th med I have tried. My mg are small
Wellbutrin 125mg
Escitalopram 10mg
I know he wants me to stay on for 30 days but this sucks. I am not even myself

[AnxiousNoMore]

I asked my pharmacist about W years ago when I was on it, because initially I had anxiety (and depression too by the time my doc prescribed it, but I figured the anxiety was the worst part and had caused the depression.) She said doctors know it works on anxiety as well as depression so doctors prescribed it for anxious people too.
She said because the manufacturer was getting the benefit of the scripts anyway, they didn't bother with the massive expense (and risk if it failed trials) of trialing it for anxiety.
Do you excessively yawn while on the Escitalopram ? If so, perhaps that is straining your jaw muscles.

[AnxiousNoMore]

You "tried all sorts of anti depressant pills"  so I guess you are like many people who suffer from both, because they feed off each other in a vicious circle escalating the level of mental anguish until the victim has a hard time figuring what is abnormal pain anymore. Is it possible that you are suffering from dep now but the anx is just so powerful that you feel that is the problem?
You mentioned job stress was a problem. Have you tried any therapy to see if there are steps that might reduce the problem?

[Paxiled]

Anxious, I'm curious about that pharmacist -- Wellbutrin is notorious for being too stimulating for people with anxiety as their primary problem.  I see a psychpharmacologist, and she would never use it for an anxiety sufferer.  As for your claim about not bothering to test it for anxiety because the tests might fail, well, have you thought about that statement?  Drugs fail when they don't work, right?  I can guarantee you the manufacturer tested it for anxiety and it failed, so they didn't apply for FDA approval for that.  Now, it's true that there are drugs that clearly work for anxiety but never tried to get approval for anxiety, but that was because the patent had already run out and they had moved on to more lucrative drugs.  The ones that got approved for anxiety did so because there were already so many drugs in the same class for depression they got the approval for anxiety so they could get the patent.  But if your main problem is depression, it does work well for the anxiety caused by depression, and most people with anxiety have as the original sin, so to speak, depression, we just don't realize it.  It's the same reason snris often work for anxiety -- they are also extremely stimulating and knowledgeable psychiatrists don't use them for people who are only claiming anxiety as a problem.  I know this because I've had both quack psychiatrist and really good ones -- I got the good ones when I realized that if you want a good one you have to see ones who don't take insurance.  The difference in. their knowledge of the drugs is huge.  Pharmacists, on the other hand,  don't actually study clinical use of drugs, they study how to formulate and give you the right drug.  They're pretty good on side effects because they've read the inserts the companies include with them, but they don't know the clinical uses and seldom will comment on that.  That's my experience, anyway, after over thirty years of this nonsense.  Peace.

[AnxiousNoMore]

My understanding is every trial on humans requires permission to do a test. So I am doubting if it would be legal to trial a dep drug on dozens of anx sufferers without getting permission. A company can't get permission to do secret tests so they wouldn't be able to hide a failure.

You say "I can guarantee you the manufacturer tested it for anxiety and it failed, so they didn't apply for FDA approval for that. " Interesting concept but I don't think they can do that and keep it under wraps but you might know differently coming at it from a different angle, because my experience is investing in many medical stocks that have announced their trials from the beginning so when they fail it gets publicly news released.

I know how brutally long, expensive and difficult it is to set up a trial and the fact that many trials fail to meet their endpoints because unexpected occurrences come up.

A simple FDA trial for just a non-invasive medical device is about 2,500 pages minimum and takes about a year to set up, maybe more because they are so massive and bureaucratic. So I can only imagine how much work would be involved with an invasive mental health drug.

If anyone did a secret trial as you say above then after they got the secret encouraging results, they would have to start at the beginning with the FDA and apply to do a new bonafide trial, because the FDA wouldn't accept what had done in secret. Too many round pegs and square holes that the FDA requires for every application.

It is impossible to verify the validity of the quote from the pharmacist but she works in this area every day.

[Paxiled]

Every drug is tested before entering clinical trials.  Only drugs that have shown promise will get that far.  It's not secret, it's just not published because it's proprietary information once you decide to try and market a drug.  Almost all drugs start out as an idea in someone's head who does general research in a gov't funded university or research institute such as NIH.  If it shows promise, the researchers form a corporation and try to score big on it.  If they get enough funding, they keep working on it until it shows enough promise in computer simulations and animal studies to then try a clinical trial.  Most drugs never get that far because they clearly have no promise of working, though sometimes these drugs pop up later for something completely different than what was originally theorized.  When a drug does get to clinical trials, if it does show promise, because the large pharmaceutical companies have a monopoly on distribution, the company will usually then either sell itself to one of the large manufacturers or have them invest in it through a licensing agreement.  So again, by the time as an investor you learn of a drug, it's already gone through a lot of testing including usually on volunteers -- often the researchers who came up with the idea who try it on themselves and their friends and graduate students.  You learn this when the companies who eventually get the marketing rights are sued for lying about their drugs and discovery happens.  Companies do not have to report negative results to the FDA, and usually don't.  That would be bad for business.  They wait until they get the drug figure out better before seeking official approval.  That's how private enterprise works -- in secret.

[AnxiousNoMore]

"Every drug is tested before entering clinical trials."
Yes, first tested on animals before clinical. Then massive analysis is presented to the FDA for permission for limited trials on humans.
http://www.savethestudent.org/make-money/get-paid-for-drug-trials.html#things

[Paxiled]

No, animal testing comes pretty far along in the process.  First step is the hypothesis.  Next step is formulating.  Usually these ideas come from somewhere, so the animal testing might be years from the beginning of the research.  Let's give one specific example of one of the biggest blockbuster drugs out there, statins.  These were first isolated by a Japanese scientist from Chinese mushrooms used in traditional Chinese medicine.  Just finding what to isolate took a lot of time, as you can imagine.  So by the time animal testing comes around, the idea for the drug has been around for awhile.  Because most drugs turn out to unsafe or ineffective, the only ones we ever hear about are the ones that make it to market.  And even then, after all that testing, it takes about a decade or more in use to gather enough data to tell if it really works and is really safe -- and this is a decade after FDA approval.  What the researchers know and what is told to the FDA is quite different, but we only learn that a lot later.  And not every drug has to be tested only on animals -- as I said, more and more they are using computer simulations for a lot of what used to be done to animals.  It's a very complicated process and a lot of people chasing the golden ring of a blockbuster drug.

[Paxiled]

By the way Anxious, I'm not really arguing with you here as much as just trying to point out to people on here that drugs are very complicated things and aren't as well understood as advertised.  I think that's important for political reasons -- it helps us to know what actually needs fixing in our medical system -- and health reasons -- it helps to keep a close eye on what doctors are recommending and whether it makes sense because they are not Gods, they are human beings who differ a lot in how good they are and how much they care just like the rest of us in our jobs -- and for reasons of not giving up -- there's almost always something else out there to try.  

[AnxiousNoMore]

I meant animal trials come before clinical trials in the human.
Let's end this thread, because I already had all that background and the only thing we are disagreeing on is whether drug companies are doing secret trials - which we can't prove.

[AnxiousNoMore]

It was fine to discuss whether this event can happen, but I think we have made all of our points and taken up enough of this thread and forum.

[Paxiled]

I'm very happy to end this thread, you're right, it's off topic, but you can't end a discussion by mischaracterizing what the other person said.  I never said there were secret trials and that isn't remotely the main point of what I was saying.  I was only trying to point out to those reading this that drug development is a for-profit enterprise and, as such, most of what is done is secret because it's proprietary information.  The informal trials they conduct aren't the same as the formal trials conducted for the purpose of getting FDA approval.  So yeah, it's great that we end this, and anything else should be done by PM.  What I said is here for everyone to judge and use to do their own research.

[AnxiousNoMore]

fyi, there is no problem, I just let you know I had finished. I enjoy reading your posts because they have so much info in them.