Just a few thoughts on autoimmunity

[KellyMGo]

I could have put this topic in about 4 autoimmune categories.  I have 4 AD so far, diagnosed, and that's not counting *what I believe to be MS* and who knows what else.

Just a few thoughts about autoimmune diseases...

It drives me crazy thinking, should I avoid Gluten?  Was it all of the vaccinations I received?  Was it because I never had Chicken Pox (or the anti-body), despite being exposed to it repeatedly as a child, as an adult, and even had the vaccination for it while I was pregnant?  And yet, no anti-body for it is still in me.  Is it because the world is so clean, that our immune systems go into a recluse phase because they don't think they have to work as hard?  Is it molecular mimicry, like in Rheumatic Fever, in ALL cases, but we just don't know that?  Is it because hormonal birth control was invented?  It is something in the plastic, the water, the environment?  Or, is it THAT easy to say, we don't know, it's "probably" a combination of things?  

Your thoughts?  

[margypops]

Thank you for all the information I have just read from you allI am going to re read it and make notes there is so much would you give me Dr Fuhrman's website link ...My own input and I am not as knowledgeble as you, is that something triggered my syptoms of Autoimmune as I was reasonably okay till a dental trauma ,also I moved to an area of possible pesticides used in growing grapes for Wine ..Thank you all ,this is one great forum

[FancyPantsandMe]

I have/had Hashimoto's , Pernicious Anemia, and was close to having Diabetes...
am no where near the diabetes diagnoses any longer..the Hashimoto numbers are dropping along with my amount of compounded armour thyroid meds ( usually it's the other way around, the medical doctors like to raise your medication to make your antibody numbers to come down). The pernicious anemia is correcting itself with my diet changes...I've steadly decreased the amount of B-12 I have to take for the Pernicious Anemia as my body is better absorbing the B-12 from my diet ...as I have cut down on the amount of wheat and gluten I am eating which has everything to do with the absorption rate in the intestines.

~Amy~

[KellyMGo]

If you don't have an autoimmune disease, you shouldn't be posting on this portion of the site, in my own humble opinion.  I started this discussion to hear from people with *diagnosed* cases of one or more autoimmune diseases, and I seriously don't need to know how some doctor, somewhere, took a boy's tooth and inserted it into a hundred rabbits (seriously?!?!  Is that even possible?)  It only makes sense because plaque in the teeth is the same/leads to plaque in the heart, and I'm not shocked why the rabbits  all had heart attacks.  

This isn't a cancer, anti-meat, pro-raw food section of the website.  All I'm saying is that there's gotta be a common link, and if you cannot add anything to it (and you can't because you don't have an autoimmune disease nor did you scientifically study any) go somewhere else.  No offense, but cancer and raw food and toxin poisons are studied enough.  AI diseases are not.    

I'm glad that you are capable of looking up autoimmune diseases in books and thinking that foods are gonna cure it.  They aren't.  If they DID work, doctors would recommend them.  Again, I'm all for having a balanced diet, it's the starting point to being healthy.  

And just so you know, the liver and kidney process out mercury and other toxins.  Toxins have VERY LITTLE to do with the immune system.  They can't go into the extracellular materials and hide out as Borrelia burgdorferi, the culprit of Lyme Disease, does.  They get eliminated by the liver and kidneys and DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING to do with autoimmune diseases.  The worst things toxins can do is to immune systems is make them weak while our bodies process them out.  But that's ok, because when you have an autoimmune disease, your body's immune system is in hyperactive mode anyways.  So, IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.  

Another thing... I hope you aren't spending too much money on quack doctors, their books and websites.  If it works for you, great.  I'm glad for you.  But guess what?  I need my thyroid medicine, I need my beta blocker, or else I WILL have a heart attack.  Meds are NOT always a necessary evil.  And I need MRIs and not food, because even though I eat healthy and take vitamins, something is neurologically not correct with me and raw food isn't gonna do a damn thing about that.

If you're so raw food and yadda yadda yadda, go to THAT portion of the website.

I want answers from people who have autoimmune diseases, to see if we can find a common thread that doctors and researchers are just missing.  What I don't need is  "common sense meets quackery" that the two of you keep posting.  

[FancyPantsandMe]

con't

Doctors not supportive
Most of the patients with lupus or
rheumatoid arthritis who follow
my advice tell a similar story. Sadly,
their other doctors often bristle at
even the suggestion that a natural
approach might be a solution to the
problem. Debra Black’s story is typical.
(See box at right.)
Having been diagnosed with
lupus and told that she would have
to take drugs for the rest of her life,
Debra sought an alternative. After
adopting my program of nutritional
excellence, she rapidly recovered
her health. Her only disappointment
came when she returned to
the doctor who gave her the initial
diagnosis. Thinking he would be
pleased to see the remarkable progress
she had made, she was shocked
both by his clear lack of interest
in a possible nutritional solution to
lupus and his rude response.
How my program works
Dietary intervention is my chief
component of care.Achieving superior
health via nutritional excellence
gives a person with an autoimmune
disorder the only opportunity
for a complete drug-free remission.
In many cases, a vegetarian
diet alone helps substantially. It is
important to keep in mind that
food is our major contact with the
external environment, and food
choices can negatively or positively
modulate the immune system. In
addition to inherently toxic substances
that may be ingested, intact
peptides and proteins (partially
digested animal proteins) can bridge
the walls of the digestive tract and
can be absorbed into the circulation,
playing a significant role in
promoting an excessive antibody response,
contributing to autoimmune
diseases.
However, in most cases,more specific
dietary modifications, along
with nutritional supplements, are required
to maximize the therapeutic
response.Over the past fifteen years,
having treated and helped hundreds
of patients with autoimmune disease,
I have found that the greatest
percentage of patients achieve excellent
results if they utilize a high-nutrient
dietary program rich in greens
and especially the cruciferous vegetables
such as cabbage,broccoli,and
kale in conjunction with some helpful
nutritional supplements.
The protocol has nine important
features:
1. High-nutrient, vegan diet,
rich in green vegetables
2. Blended salads and blended
soups (utilizing leafy greens)
to increase absorption of
favorable phytochemical
compounds
3. Fresh vegetable juice
DR. FUHRMAN’S HEALTHY TIMES • NOVEMBER 2004 3
(See Autoimmune Disease on p.4.)



(carrots, beets, parsley, kale,
and other greens)
4. High-dose fish oils or plantderived
EPA and DHA
5. Beneficial bowel flora
6. Natural anti-inflammatory
herbs such as turmeric,
quercetin, ginger, and
bioflavonoids.
7. Multivitamin/mineral,
plus additional vitamin D
supplementation
8.Water-only fasting, used
periodically, if necessary
9. Dietary avoidance of salt,
wheat, and oil
Fueling your immune
system with greens
I recommend the daily consumption
of a thick vegetable soup, which can
be made in advance in large amounts
so it is readily available to use for
lunch the entire week. Zucchini,
leeks, and leafy greens such as chard,
cabbage, kale, bok choy, or broccoli
are added to a liquid base made from
freshly-squeezed vegetable juice and
water. Vegetables such as parsnips,
carrots, mushrooms, lentils, split
peas, and spices can be added, too.
What makes this soup unique is that
the leeks, zucchini, and other greens
are blended until smooth into the
soup liquid (veggie juice), increasing
the absorption of the beneficial compounds.
Softening vegetables via
soup cooking has been shown to
increase the bioavailability of beneficial
phytochemical compounds. I
also encourage the use of freshlysqueezed
vegetable juice using carrots,
parsley, beets, cabbage, and kale
before dinner as well. Pomegranate
juice is also a favorable addition.
Last, but not least, I teach patients
how to make a raw spinach and lettuce
blended salad, with fruits and
nuts or avocado added to make a
great tasting, high-nutrient treat.
Blending the salad to a creamy consistency
has the dramatic effect of
increasing absorption of beneficial
phytochemicals over 500 percent
compared with eating salad.
High dose fish oils
High doses of EPA (eisosapentaenoic
acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic
acid) have been shown to lower
immune reactivity and to inhibit inflammatory
response.These supplements
make important contributions
in the recovery of many patients.
Dosages in the range of 1.2 to
4 grams of the active components
(EPA + DHA) typically are needed.
Not all patients with autoimmune
disorders are fish oil responsive,and
the anti-inflammatory effect should
not be expected to lead to striking
improvements without implementing
all of the other components of
the dietary and nutritional program.
These EPA and DHA (long-chain
omega-3) fatty acids are used in
conjunction with a dietary program
that is low in omega-6 fats and saturated
fat. This fatty acid environment
suppresses the production of
pro-inflammatory substances that
normally are produced from increased
amounts of arachidonic
acid, derived from omega-6 fats.
Omega-3 long-chain fatty acids
also have been found to suppress
production of inflammatory cytokines
and cartilage degradation enzymes.
Their beneficial anti-inflammatory
effects have been demonstrated
in hundreds of randomized,
double-blinded, placebo-controlled
trials.It is difficult to understand why
well-studied, effective, natural substances
are generally ignored by the
medical community.Perhaps it is that
these substances do not provide the
industry with the opportunity for
substantial profit compared to what
is possible with patented prescription
items.
Taking high doses of fish oil is not
without any risk, but compared to
drugs, the potential drawbacks are
slight. Fish oils are also susceptible
to contamination with lipophilic
organic chemicals that are now
ubiquitous contaminants of marine
ecosystems. Some fish-derived products
cannot be recommended for
this reason.
Recently, I have addressed this
concern by developing an all-plantderived
EPA and DHA supplement.
As far I can tell, it is the only allvegan
EPA and DHA available anywhere
in the world. It enables people
to get the same beneficial fats in
fish (including the EPA) without
the possibility of pollutants and
mercury. It is also freeze-dried to
extend shelf life and prevent rancidity.
Look for DHA-EPA Purity,
available at DrFuhrman.com in
December 2004.
Supplemental bowel flora
The hundreds of billions of bacteria
cells that inhabit our bowels play a
critical role in the health of our
immune system. Seventy percent of
the immune system is located in the
gastrointestinal (GI) tract.The microflora
of the GI tract constitute a complex
ecosystem that can be viewed
as an organ of the body, as these
microbes profoundly influence physiologic
processes of the host.Certain
normal metabolic functions and
enzyme activities can be attributed
to the microflora, and these play a
role in metabolizing nutrients, vitamins,
drugs, endogenous hormones,
and carcinogens; synthesizing shortchain
fatty acids; preventing colonization
of pathogens; and modulating
the normal immune response.
The bowel offers some degree of
protection from harmful materials
which are ingested. The process of
absorption takes place via the
microvilli of the intestinal walls.
Normal bowel permeability permits
assimilation of nutrients while providing
protection against pathogens
Autoimmune Disease
Continued from page 3
(See Autoimmune Disease on p.6.)

[FancyPantsandMe]

A newsletter entry from Nov. 2004 of Dr. Fuhrman's

By Joel Fuhrman, M.D.
This issue of the newsletter is
about rheumatologic disease:
diseases such as psoriasis, lupus,
rheumatoid arthritis, and connective
tissue disease, but there are
about a hundred clinical syndromes
considered autoimmune disease.
The term rheumatoid arthritis was
coined in 1858 to differentiate this
type of joint pain and bodily symptoms
from gouty arthritis, which
was more common in those days
among wealthier Europeans eating
rich foods.
Rheumatologic diseases refer to a
group of systemic illnesses characterized
by the immune system’s attacks
on joints and other parts of
the body. Today, the words autoimmune
and rheumatologic are interchangeable;
they are marked by
inflammatory markers in the blood.
Inflammatory bowel diseases, such
as Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis, also
are autoimmune diseases, but they
are not classified as rheumatologic
because they typically are cared for
by gastroenterologists, not rheumatologists.
Nevertheless, they are diseases
where inflammatory markers
are visible in the blood and are of
the same class as systemic autoimmune
disorders.
Autoimmune diseases are caused
by an inflammatory process regulated
by our immune system. Inflammation
normally protects the host
from foreign invaders by isolating
and destroying bacteria, viruses, and
other toxic or foreign agents. It is a
highly complex process involving
many types of cells, a number of
enzymes, and many physiologically
active materials that alter local blood
flow and cell behavior.
In Pathological Basis of Disease,
the leading pathology text used by
most medical students, inflammation
is explained poetically:
“The inflammatory response is
closely intertwined with the
process of repair. Inflammation
serves to destroy, dilute, or
wall off the injurious agent,
but in turn sets into motion a
complex series of events that,
as far as possible, heal and
reconstitute the damaged tissue.
Repair begins during the
early phase of inflammation
but reaches completion usually
after the injurious influence
has been neutralized....Humans
owe to inflammation their
ability to contain injuries and
heal defects.Without inflammation,
infections would go
unchecked, wounds would
never heal, and injured organs
would remain permanent festering
sores.”


Understanding biology and pathology
helps us to understand how
immune system disorders can be
treated and how nutritional therapy
works. Poisoning the immune attack
into submission with toxic drugs is
one avenue of attack.This leads to a
continual and increased buildup of
toxic and irritating immune system
stimulating substances, which could
increase the requirement for more
drugs down the road and make for a
more severe response if the medications
are discontinued.The road less
traveled is to attempt to remove the
noxious and injurious influences
promoting the excessive immune
attack and to normalize the excessive
immune system response by
adopting a program of nutritional
excellence.
In most of the rheumatologic diseases,
the inciting agent stimulating
an excessive immune attack is
unknown, and the inflammatory
reaction becomes detrimental to the
host. Unfortunately, in untreated
autoimmune illnesses, the immune
attack against unknown stimuli does
not stop and leads to destructive,
harmful sequelae (aftereffects).
Our complicated immune response
is controlled with a system
of checks and balances, just like our
democratic government. Many
components are involved in this
immune-mediated attack. First, our
antibodies label areas worthy of
attack, then other cells work to call
out the alarm—secreting substances
that attract and promote
proliferation of other attacking
cells. Finally, there are cells that
control the attack, modify it, and
turn it off at the precise moment to
prevent an excessive response. In
autoimmune disorders such as lupus,
we have an immune response that
reacts in an uncontrollable fashion,a
response that is not properly immuno-
regulated.
Increased understanding
As our understanding of the mechanism
and causes of inflammation
increases, so does our ability to
understand the factors that create a
favorable environment for improvement
and healing of autoimmune
disease. The scientific basis for the
nutritional treatment of autoimmune
disease hinges on the removal
of cellular toxins, bacterialelaborated
toxins from our digestive
tract, food excesses, and food
toxins, while at the same time supplying
a high level of nutritional
factors that help normalize a malfunctioning
(excessive) immune
response that overreacts to stimuli
and does not shut off.
In spite of excellent clinical
results and the publication of case
studies and medical journal articles
documenting favorable outcomes,
medical authorities and major research
centers are not interested in
studying nutritional excellence as a
therapy for rheumatologic diseases.
It is difficult to move against an
entrenched status quo that wrongly
assumes that medications are the
only option. If my approach to autoimmune
illnesses was taught in medical
schools and residency programs,
primary care physicians could begin
this nutritional approach at the earliest
signs of autoimmune illness with
their patients, instead of prescribing
a lifetime of medications that have
dangerous side effects.
Dramatic recovery
Patients can achieve incredible success.
Here is how Cheryl Platt describes
her experience with my
approach:
I had lupus for 20 years. I took
Plaquenil, methotrexate, prednisone
and other toxic drugs in
high dosages, but still lived my
life imprisoned in isolation and
pain with many lost years. I
searched on the web for years
looking for something else.
During this time, I tried acupuncture,
chiropractic, massage,
exercise, stress management,
vitamins, herbs, various
oils (including fish oils), antibiotics,
and other treatments. I
am so grateful to have found
Dr. Fuhrman. Thanks to him,
today I have a normal life, full
of energy.The joint pain is gone,
and I am on no medication.

[FancyPantsandMe]

Correction..it's not oxalic acid it's ALKALOIDS...and it is RAW Family dot commmm.