19 year old Coco Kitty smells & paws at mouth

[satori14u]

Hi,  Coco is 19 now. I have had her since she's been about 4 weeks old.    I seen she was pawing at her mouth about 3 months ago and took her to the vet.  Vet said she had a chipped fang tooth but no infection.  Her bladder was a little enlarged.  Vet said she didn't seem in pain.  She has always been a small kitty at about 5 pounds.   I have always free fed her mostly dry food.   I found that this was very bad for her and now just give her canned food.  She seems to have a good appetite of 2 to 3 3oz. cans a day.   She has been pawing at her mouth more often now and has a horrible odor.   At this age I don't want to do anything to extreme for her health like having her put under for tooth extraction etc.   However,  I want her to enjoy her last days not in pain.  She sleeps more but still get around fine, Suns every day on a tall cat tree she has to make about a 4' jump to get where she suns,  has a healthy appetite, shiny coat,  plays occasionally and uses her litter box.  I brush her and have used a wet paper towel to wipe her face, nose and mouth and I also give her Colloidal Silver drops in food and water.  
1.  How to know if she is in Pain or has an infection?
2.  How to dry groom / clean her to keep smell in check?
3.  Anything else I can do for her?
Thanks for your feedback / help :)!
Kim

[BluCrystal]

Hi, Kim!  It is truly and wonderfully amazing that Coco has aged gracefully to 19 years!  Kudos to you for being such a great cat-mommy!  A cat in pain will purr, show aggression, and pull away from a touch at the site of the pain.  She may slobber as well if the pain is dental.  Smart thinking not to do too much for her at this age.  To groom her, run a baby wipe or two over her body, then brush her gently.  You can do this up to twice a day.  Remember to never leave her damp: the chill is not good for her, and if she licks at and swallows a large enough amount of the baby wipe liquid, it might upset her tummy.  Ask your vet for a liquid, oral painkiller that you can give to her every day, to ease any discomfort she may be having.  Ordinarily, a vet would give Rimadyl (like tylenol but for cats), but I don't know if this comes in a liquid.  You may have to crush it and put it in her food.  Rimadyl tastes good to animals, so she should not be turned off her food by it.  Blessings to you and Coco! - Blu

[opus88]

Hi.....I echo all that Blu has said, I strongly urge you to ask the Vet for the pain med called BUPRENEX...this does come in liquid form its very good for dental (nerve pain) and is one of the safer ones for cats...she does sound like she is in pain and I agree abt not wanting to put her through any anesthesia at this stage in her life....but do keep her comfortable. ♥

[satori14u]

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it!   I will ask the vet about Rimadyl and Burprenex.  She is not purring however, is slobbering.  Is there a way to file the fang tooth that is chipped as I am thinking this is part of what is bothering her.  I am a little displeased with the Vet to whom I have taken her to for the last 19yrs to not have made a suggestion of the above.  Do you think I should take her to a different Vet?   The smell is also really bad and she like to cuddle on chest next to my nose lol!  Is there anything that may help this?  Thanks again for you help.
Kim

[satori14u]

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it!   I will ask the vet about Rimadyl and Burprenex.  She is not purring however, is slobbering.  Is there a way to file the fang tooth that is chipped as I am thinking this is part of what is bothering her.  I am a little displeased with the Vet to whom I have taken her to for the last 19yrs to not have made a suggestion of the above.  Do you think I should take her to a different Vet?   The smell is also really bad and she like to cuddle on chest next to my nose lol!  Is there anything that may help this?  Thanks again for you help.
Kim

[satori14u]

Was wondering if you think antibiotics might help.  She also has constipation is there anything natural I can give her to help with that as well?  Also, cost is a factor for me do you know of any place to order these online at a discount?
Thanks again :)!
Kim

[opus88]

can I ask why you give the collidial silver?
what brand is it and is it the pure silver? some aren't really recommended for use orally especially for cats.

you can't order antibiotics on line a  Vet has to prescribe the proper one for whatever the particular bacteria is causing an infection IF THERE IS ONE...

it sounds very much like dental nerve pain as I commented on before, and antibiotics won't do anything for that, she needs pain meds PLEASE don't allow her to suffer, these meds aren't that expensive. talk to your Vet if he can't see this than YES GET A NEW VET...

as far as constipation. has this just started? are her stools really hard when she goes or does she hold them in too long and not pass anything for a few days?

if always depends on whats causing the constipation. if its fiber she needs than you could try getting some PURE PUMPKIN in the can, but be sure its NOT the pie filling, it has to say pure on the label and be 100% pumpkin with no additves. than you can add a 1/4 teaspoon to her food and see if that helps her. otherwise you would have to use 1/4 teaspoon of Miralax laxative....try the pumpkin first for a few days and see if that helps..but be careful b/c depending on the cause too much fiber can make the situation worse, if it feces sits in the colon too long it will get so impacted with too much fiber and than she's really plugged up.

[satori14u]

Thank you for the speedy response.   I tried the vet but already closed for the night.   I will call 1st thing tomorrow.  I will get her a pain Med tomorrow one way or another.  A little concerned about the Burprenex as shows it's pretty strong stuff.  Is this like fentanyl for humans?  
She has had the constipation off and on for years.  I have given her the canned food with pumpkin but she really didn't like it much.  Will have to try the Miralax.  I was just thinking for human dental problems they usually give you antibiotics and pain meds.   Asked the vet if I could give her oral gel and they said NO...but why she didn't suggest a pain med if it got worse perplexes me...she charged me $60 to look at her for 5 minutes...and didn't really say or suggest much...except " she had a chipped fang tooth but no infection.  Her bladder was a little enlarged and she didn't seem in pain. "   Are there any test I should have them run?
Thanks again,
Kim

[opus88]

well the pawing at her mouth indicates its bothering her....and the smell, than something is wrong. both strongly indicate dental decay. did you tell the Vet abt both these symptoms?
if you did than this Vet is really very incompetent IMO.

If there is an infection you would notice some swelling with red gums near the fang  and perhaps a discharge of pus?
a good visual can usually notice that pretty easily.

if not than its nerve related and very painful.
yes buprenex is a narcotic. it is usually prescribed after dental work is done...for short periods!!!!
it can also be used long term, but yes its pretty strong stuff your right. the only other choice is to have the tooth removed. At 19 I can see your reluctance to do this, however you cannot leave her suffer either.

if possible I would try another Vet and tell them exactly what her symptoms are, make sure they probe the tooth....that will soon show if she's in pain there or not...

There really isn't any test...if its dental pain....I still say IF b/c I am only guessing by the symptoms you describe, of course it could be something else, but pawing at the mouth and oral odor are strong indications!!!!

[satori14u]

I will see if I can get her in Today and make sure they probe the tooth / teeth.  She didn't smell as bad when I had 1st taken her in for the tooth...but had said she was pawing and howling about it and that is why I had taken her in... If it is the tooth do you think I should have it pulled...Do older cats do well with being put under usually?  The fang is chipped and sharp on the end... should I file it...The Vet said they really had no good way to deal with the chipped fang tooth....didn't see any puss...but she won't let me look more than a few seconds at a time...The silver I give her is Sovereign Silver Bio-Active Silver Hydrosol Dropper 10 Ppm.  My niece gave it her cat after $700 of tests at the Vet only to be told they have no idea what was wrong.  He has been fine for over a year now.  So, I started giving it to Coco last March as she didn't seem to have much of an appetite after her 17 year old daughter kitty had passed.  It seemed like she was in depression.  I give her like 2 drops in her water or food daily and then about 2x a week give her a drop or 2 in the mouth.  From what I know they use it to clean dialysis machines and give it to military personal as part of the survival kit to purify water.  I use it as an immune system booster myself.  
I appreciate your feedback on this and am really thinking I should have taken her elsewhere for a second opinion...I hope she hasn't been in pain this whole time as it's been about 2 months since it started and I took her in last... and the vet assured me she didn't seem in pain!
  

[opus88]

good I'm glad you are getting her into a Vet asap....I know you want whats best for your kitty.
at 19 years old anesthetics are risky IMO....you will have to talk this over with your Vet.  after they examine that tooth better and give you a better diagnosis.
NO don't try to file that tooth, it won't help anyway...the pain is inside where the nerve is...

yes I know abt Collodial Silver and use it in mixed in a paste for my cats teeth..just a tiny drop with COQ10, its good if there is any gingivitis present.

You must be using the brand Natural Immunogenics right?....its a good choice...and 10 ppm is safe.
Wellness is also a good brand.

let us know what the Vet says today. and good luck:)

[zodiacqueen]

Hi, I've been following this post.  I really think you should get a second opinion, and I believe that is what your gut is telling you to do as well.  I also think that the tooth might be able to be safely pulled, if the vet finds her heart and kidneys to be in decent shape.  We had an 18 yr old cat go in for a tooth extraction and she also had a heart murmur.  She did fine and our vet was nervous putting her under.  She did fine and had no weird side effects that I can remember.

I've also had to deal with constipation with my last 18 yr old kitty.  My vet had me give her docusate sodium.  This can be purchased over the counter.  I can't remember the actual mg of the dosing and you have to be extremely careful that is the ONLY ingredient.  Of course, ask your vet first.  He'll know the right mg for Coco.

Please, keep us updated.

ZQ

[satori14u]

I called the Cat Clinic and the vet she had seen before was no longer with them.  I talked to another vet there and he said bring her in.   So, just got back.  He notice Tarter on her back teeth and pulled it off both sides with his nails.  Said she looked fine and didn't need any Medication.  I am soooo Grateful he found the problem and to know she hasn't been in pain.  Discomfort from tater build up but not nerve pain nor infections.  He said the teeth look nice and white.   I am very happy pet owner/slave (lol) today :)!  He said to give her Temptations and some dry food with her wet food and that should help.   Hope this helps others with older cats pawing at mouth and smelling just rank....  Thank you all so much for your feed back :)!   I was so happy I forgot to ask about the docusate sodium.  I will ask tomorrow about that.   Thanks everyone....Good to know there are others out there to get feedback from to help our Pets in need :)!!!   If anyone has found a good way to control Tarter for cats let me know...

[zodiacqueen]

Well, I sincerely hope and pray that the vet is correct! How does he know for sure that she's not in pain or that her teeth are good?  I don't mean to sound like an arrogant A S S, but, I would still keep my eye on her.  I believe that she's pawing at her mouth for a reason.....It has to be a bad tooth, in my honest opinion.  I wonder if they can do x rays of the mouth area, kind of like they do w/ us when we have a bad tooth.  I know they can't do "bite wings" on cats, but they can probably take a skull x ray to show the teeth.

I do agree with the vet about giving some hard food.  That will help keep the tartar build-up down.  

[Jade59]

Hi there...please don't give your kitty any Temptations.  There are some bad write ups about them making kitties ill.  I know for sure, they were making Jade vomit, and I mean, without a doubt!  A better 'treat' is PUREBITES.  All it is, is freeze dried chicken, turkey, or fish, whatever your kitty prefers.  

[Jade59]

Here's a link...

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/whiskas-cat-food.html

[satori14u]

Thanks Jade59.  I will look for it at the pet store!

[satori14u]

Hi,
I will check around and see if I can find a Vet Dentist per say...one that specializes in oral care for cats. Thinking maybe this is like when we have to see a specialist and not just a family Dr... I would like to get her teeth cleaned anyway if they can do it without putting her under.  
I of course will still be watching and checking her.  I would really hate to find out the Vet was wrong...and Coco kitty is in pain.  I went around with a bad tooth for 2 yrs (guess I thought I could save it)  before I finally had it pulled. I had no more pain in less than 10 min after suffering for 2yrs.  So, I would Certinally not do this to my Coco on purpose.

[satori14u]

Is the silver paste something you bought or made?  As I would like to make/get some for Coco as well.  The stuff seems awesome.  Yes, the brand is Natural Immunogenics.  
Thanks again,
Kim

[zodiacqueen]

Hi, just wanted to see how Coco is doing today!  

I hope she's doing better.

[CML2014]

I completely agree with you Zodiac, and sometimes you have to be just a plain b----, to get a Vet's attention.

Cat's hide their pain VERY well. So if signs of pain are there then she is hurting!!

[CML2014]

Hi Satori,

How wonderful to have had your kitty for 19 years! I can only hope mine will live to that ripe old age.

I will tell you this, just because I experienced dental problems with my kitty right after I got her from the shelter I worked at. I knew she had a dental condition called "Stomatitis". She would never let anyone get  near her, especially her mouth. Yes she drooled, had terrible breath and pawed at her mouth.

I had an immediate bond with her and knew she would be almost unadoptable, since she hid away out of pain. Long story short --adopted her , next day took her to a Dental Specialist (Yes they actually have them) and $3,500 later that same day all her teeth were taken out.
I know this sounds drastic, but this is the ONLY way this condition can be cured. The dentist took x-rays and pictures of the inside of her mouth while under sedation--OMG! I cried to see how horrible her gums, teeth,throat looked. I can't even think about how much pain she must have been in.

I truly believes she knows I made the pain go away, because she is devoted to ME. She is always with me wherever I am, and so loving. She again plays, washes herself, nuzzles me all the time and I know I did the right thing. She is most important to me and very much loved ,just like each of us here feels about their little furster!

Please have x-rays taken and a dental specialist is the ONLY one I would trust for a diagnosis. Seems Tartar would not cause that much pain.
Please know I am telling this story only to make people aware of this horrible immune mediated disease called stomatitis. I am afraid her age sets up a number of complication for resolution of her problem. A Dental specialist will ease your fears though and ease her pain with the right meds. You will see, she will be her old self again.

Please others--BE AWARE of this horrific disease that manifest itself orally. You will spare your beloved Furster a great deal of pain if you read up on this condition and watch for the signs.

I am praying for you both satori,
CML

[opus88]

welcome to our forum and thank you for the very informative post on Stomatitis.....I agree this is a very painful condition. Also in this category are FORLs that I have posted on previously. both conditions need a qualified Veterinary dentist to deal with these issues properly.

My Sami has these FORLs and has seen one such specialist for removal of some teeth, he now is on an oral cleaning regiment with mommy, and see's the good doctor yearly for xrays to watch for progression...

I cry too thinking of the excruciating pain many kitties are suffering.....we humans know how painful a tooth ache can be. they can't tell us, we have to be vigilant.

thanks again for your post, hope to see more of you and your Furster on the forum:)))

[CML2014]

Thanks for the WELCOME, Opus.

Sounds like you know exactly where I am coming from. Good for Sami to have a mom like you.

You are so right to compare it to the pain we humans have with a tooth ache....or if our root were to be exposed.Yikes! Cat's are incredible creatures to have to hide their pain from pedators.

Anyway, Thanks again and Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all!!!!

[Digger19]

I was wondering if you had an update? I have the exact same story although after 6 months of crying I notice my 19yr cat lost his canine. He too was pawing at his face. Come to find out he has several teeth missing when the 1st vet gave me the same answer you're did! Sent us on our way as if he's just an old cat meowing to hear himself. He is no on Buprenex. I feel the same way, I don't want to put him through surgery this late in life to only end with trauma. Today he won't eat and its been 24 hours and he is still sluggish and just wants to sleep. There is a lot more detail I could give but am wondering how your kitty was after seeing the vet?