What is the difference?

[rod44]

What is the difference between herniation and overcrowding, I understand the concept of each but from a Chiari perspective is there a difference, if the tonsils have herniated into the foramen magnum then surely this leads to overcrowding….. on some of the medical sites they talk of these as separate issues, others role them into one. I am just curious.
thanks
ROD

[youngwife]

Ha!  I guess I typed a_ s_ s_ e_ s_ s, and it was blocked??   Oops!  Sorry. ;)

[n40066]

i wonder which one i am thinking of then.....

[selmaS]

there is no tower that covers where they were....unfortunately.....but since this I think that will change.

[n40066]

i believe that accident is the one that was caused by an error on the part of the tower, wasn't it?

[selmaS]

That is a good question Elizabeth...I am sure if u call they will tell u...but it could be a possibility.

BTW in case u missed it....that crash btwn the helicopterand small plane in NY awhile back...the pilot of the small plane I believe was a pilot for angel flights....not that I am saying nething here...just that someone who gave of his time and talents was lost.

[n40066]

hey selma!  does angle flight go outside of the country to bring others in to the specialist?

[rod44]

My DX is of “borderline” herniation with C-Spine Syrinx. Have app with NS in November.  It has taken almost three years of mistakes and misdiagnoses to get this far. Have symptoms going back for many years.
I live outside the US so Chiari specialist is not an option for me at this time.

[rod44]

Thanks guys,
I wonder will my NS explain things as eloquently yet simply to me.

Hey wolf, good to hear from you. I hope you are doing ok since your surgery.

That is interesting, it seems the medical community are like ourselves navigating there way gingerly, lol!  but it strikes me that much more needs to be done to streamline the treatment and NS/NL need to start working together in the interest of there patents, it is evident that no clear protocol exists for dealing with this illness. It struck me that reading between the lines there is certain disagreements going on especially where the policies regarding surgery are concerned.
Thanks again
I would appreciate that Selma thanks
ROD

[youngwife]

Wolf did a good job.  I just wanted to add....

Herniation is a symptom of overcrowding.  Having your tonsils in the foramen magnum does not always cause symptoms.  *IF* they plug the csf from flowing properly, then you will absolutely have symptoms.

But, having pressure on your brain stem from your skull being to small (or hypoplastic), then you can have flow problems as well as many other bodily functions to be compromised.  This is why Dr. Rosner ordered Tilt Table Test for his Chiari patients.  It was to ***** the stress on the heart from having the brain stem crowded.

The problem many times is that the mid sagittal slice on a brain MRI does not show when the tonsils have herniated horizontally.  It is not an accurate diagnostic tool, yet it is the most common.  So, many patients are misdiagnosed until they see a Chiari specialist, and have spent thousands of dollars.

Does this help any to answer your question?

I hope so! :)

Rebecca

[selmaS]

Bravo...very good answers....I have some diaghrams I can PM to u and u will see what we mean.

But overcrowding is a big issue and can cause more blockage than a large herniation bcuz herniations can be long and thin or short and round....short and round is more like a plug.....

I had major overcrowding and my herniation was not bilateral...one side was 4mm and the other was 6 mm....it was my left side that the issues were and I had trouble turning my head that way and would get vertigo when I turned to my left.

The tonsils are to sit within the cerebellum and allow CSF to flow.....when the area is too small they can herniate or fall out...

"selma"

[shanmomof3]

From what I understand ..... you can have overcrowding of the brain without having a herniation or a small herniation. The herniation refers to the tonsils but the overcrowding can refer to your whole brain inside your skull. At least that's the way I see it!

I know on my MRIs from Jan and July of this year .... in 6 months time my brain appears to have "grown" and it looks like its squished into my skull.

[ChiariWolf]

Hello Rod, Hopefully Selma will correct me if this wrong. But the way it was explained to me is this....

Many docs are disagreement on this issue. But in my Dr's mind the most important issue is simply overcrowding. Why? Because no matter the cause, whether it be Chiari 0, herniation, cyst whatever the overcrowding is what can cause symptoms and or in the worst case even death. This, the way I understand it, is because of the way everything is situatated in our anatomy the overcrowding can and in cases does shove the sensitive brain stem into bony structure on the back side of our throat. This can cause along with the severe HA we're famiar with due to csf blockage, stroke, paralysis and even worst case death.

Herniation on the other hand, my doctor said he has seen measured up to 15 with absolutely no symptoms. Thus he and his team have thrown out the 'rules' and choose to operate or not based on symptoms. Flow is important as well but I guess not all can be readily seen at all times with testing.

Hope that helps somewhat. No doubt Selma or one the others here can add better explinations where I've failed you.

The Wolf